23 August 2011

The lies of the crazy gang. Things we can learn from the Convoy

23 August 2011 | johnboy

Yesterday it was exciting to see Australia had not in fact gone mad and that angry convoys demanding an end to consitutional democracy have not yet reached a point where normal Australians are willing to join them.

That ~20 people were bravely willing to get up early on Monday morning, on short notice, to ride into town from the Dickson Motor Registry in opposition to the convoy, thinking they’d be dicing with thousands of big rigs, blew me away.

The absence of big rigs was even more surprising after the convoy organisers had promised “the biggest people protest of all time”.

As we reported last week the whole convoy fiasco was the work of a small group of deeply dishonest people.

The saddest thing is that small numbers of decent and much put upon people believed the lies and signed up for this failed crusade.

But (at the risk of invoking Godwin’s law) Hitler looked pretty silly in 1923 after the Beer Hall Putsch (seriously go have a read of that the similarity of tone will startle you).

So we’re going to make sure everyone is clear about the blatant lies being told to people who weren’t actually here.

The biggest untruth of all is Alan Jones in the video above (around 1:50).

Remember this.

Here’s a broadcaster that many people take seriously, that 2CC in Canberra re-broadcasts, inventing a “Lost Convoy” to make up for more bicycles turning out to oppose his rally than trucks could be found to support it.

Thousands of trucks stretching kilometres captured by Police.

Pix or it didn’t happen.

We’re supposed to believe that thousands of trucks were stopped and nobody was able to get a picture of the process on their phone? Nothing on Twitter?

We’re supposed to believe they’ve been held incommunicado since?

Perhaps it might be easier to believe that the organisers are liars and that they have very little support?

Another one going around nut central is that the trucks parked on State Circle were ticketed. Our sources tell us it was in fact Sinsations leafletting.

And then there was the online polls of 2CC and the Canberra Times showing that even the people of Canberra were in favour of the convoy.

Oh wait.

Here’s one example of the international climate denial network jumping in to confect the appearance of support.

I’m not enormously keen for the carbon tax, I’m even un-impressed by greenhouse enthusiasts efforts to write the medieval warm period out of the historical record.

But I’m even less impressed by bald faced lies from people with poorly understood motives.

Anthony Albanese’s smirk makes me want to punch him in the face, but this mob were worse (if for nothing else giving Albo reason to smirk).

So remember yesterday and what really took place; because the mythmakers would have you believe it never happened.

Also a few Members of Parliament have been listed on Just Grounds as being in support of yesterday’s failed convoy:

Bear in mind, given the Just Grounds serial dishonesty, it could be they made up the messages of support.

Some names from Just Grounds to watch for popping up in future:

[Photo by Arr Emm]

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Postalgeek11:50 am 11 Jan 12

Don’t ‘boaties’ wear deck shoes and natty little caps? I’d love to see them in Afghanistan, spilling their Pims as they come under fire.

Baldy11:40 am 11 Jan 12

I have started to reread there website as well. Mostly just to see how the poor dears are fairing now they aren’t the centre of attention anymore.

My surprise is the blog from the QLD independent Rob Messenger. There is actually a spirited debate on Gay Marriage on there with a fair equal share of half for and half against. I must admit I didn’t expect that, thinking they wpould all be against it.

The story about the ducks and the posters “better then you” attitude was what I expected though. And their whinge posts.

watto235:02 pm 10 Jan 12

colourful sydney racing identity said :

NoImRight said :

EvanJames said :

fgzk said :

Sorry….. Who are “Just Grounders”?

Wankers, mainly.

You have to admit their website is awesome. Half a dozen people sitting around telling each other just how right they are and how they speak for everyone. It will take some days to read all the wisdom available there. Im currently enjoying the thread that says sending “boaties” to other countries is wrong when they could all be sent to Afghanistan to fight the Muslims. Be honest you would never have thought of such an elegant solution.

I presume you have read the gem about how Gillard may not have given up her Welsh citizenship?

Followed by the fact Tony was also born OS and it just gets ignored as they continue on the hunt for Gillard being a welsh citizen still….

EvanJames4:37 pm 10 Jan 12

NoImRight said :

You have to admit their website is awesome. Half a dozen people sitting around telling each other just how right they are and how they speak for everyone. It will take some days to read all the wisdom available there. Im currently enjoying the thread that says sending “boaties” to other countries is wrong when they could all be sent to Afghanistan to fight the Muslims. Be honest you would never have thought of such an elegant solution.

I’ll have you know that it is really hard to type when you’re shaking with laughter! Oh that is priceless. Such sophisticated understanding of foreign policy and grasp of the essential points of major conflicts. I’m soemwhat puzzled as to what would motivate the “boaties” to engage in combat with these muslims however. Just Grounders behind them, poking them with sharp sticks?

If the JustGrounders were really rural, they’d have thought of the far more sensible idea, of putting the “boaties” to work picking fruit and pulling up onions.

colourful sydney racing identity4:36 pm 10 Jan 12

NoImRight said :

EvanJames said :

fgzk said :

Sorry….. Who are “Just Grounders”?

Wankers, mainly.

You have to admit their website is awesome. Half a dozen people sitting around telling each other just how right they are and how they speak for everyone. It will take some days to read all the wisdom available there. Im currently enjoying the thread that says sending “boaties” to other countries is wrong when they could all be sent to Afghanistan to fight the Muslims. Be honest you would never have thought of such an elegant solution.

I presume you have read the gem about how Gillard may not have given up her Welsh citizenship?

NoImRight4:25 pm 10 Jan 12

EvanJames said :

fgzk said :

Sorry….. Who are “Just Grounders”?

Wankers, mainly.

You have to admit their website is awesome. Half a dozen people sitting around telling each other just how right they are and how they speak for everyone. It will take some days to read all the wisdom available there. Im currently enjoying the thread that says sending “boaties” to other countries is wrong when they could all be sent to Afghanistan to fight the Muslims. Be honest you would never have thought of such an elegant solution.

EvanJames4:10 pm 10 Jan 12

fgzk said :

Sorry….. Who are “Just Grounders”?

Wankers, mainly.

colourful sydney racing identity4:04 pm 10 Jan 12

NoImRight said :

Looks like the honeymoon with LNP is over.

Not really, there is a call to get involved with local Liberal party branches – strikes me as a recruitment drive, er branch stack.

NoImRight3:51 pm 10 Jan 12

Looks like the honeymoon with LNP is over.

johnboy3:38 pm 10 Jan 12

colourful sydney racing identity said :

fgzk said :

Sorry….. Who are “Just Grounders”?

garden variety, flat earth, conspircay theorist nutbags who populate the site justgroundsonline.com. Think Tea Party/Birthers but nuttier. Should you visit the site, be careful, it could cause you to despair for our society.

I’m sure you meant to say “Real Australians”.

Ryoma9:00 am 25 Aug 11

@Watto23 – I agree with you on several fronts here, the carbon tax is certainly an effective issue for an Opposition to run a scare campaign upon. I am thoroughly disgusted with their behaviour in doing so, without them having the guts to put up a credible alternative plan.

There is no good time to introduce any tough reform – those who are going to lose out from it, will lose out anyhow, so I agree that now is a good time to be doing it. Having said that, if we get a GFC Mark 2, in hindsight it will look like terrible timing. But in our politics for the past 20 years, it appears that people expect the Government to fix virtually everything, and as a result, good policy is watered down and people have to be “bribed” with tax cuts or the like to get anything done at all. I sometimes wonder what the pioneers would think of us – not much, I’d say.

In terms of what you say about people being scared, I think that’s my major point. If a person is University-educated, or has a trade certificate, then generally the chances of finding another job is much better than if you haven’t finished high school. Decisions made on a utilitarian basis may indeed be good for the greatest number of Australians, if it benefits people living in the capitals and larger cities, in terms of lower prices/more choices, etc.

But if you are one of the many people who didn’t enjoy school, and are still struggling to read, write and do arithmetic properly, and you live in small town Australia, then the thought of moving to a larger city, away from your family and support network, and having to compete for work against others in the same boat, or with higher skill levels for any work going, is indeed scary. Not to mention the cost of housing and living in general.

If you have spent much of your life simply struggling to hold onto what you have, rather than being able to look forward to a better tomorrow, then your reaction to change is likely to be fear rather than hope. And if governments of various stripes seem to make decisions that make the region you grow up in suffer, then naturally you’re not going to have anything good to say about them.

Having said all of that, I agree that government cannot, and should not, hold back the tide of change. What it should be doing is making it easier for people to move to where the jobs are, and removing barriers that allow people to lift their skills base, as well as removing barriers for employers to hire those with lower skills. At present, both the current and previous governments are not doing much of that that particularly well.

@Evan James.

I agree, I don’t think anyone was saying these people had no right to protest. My concern was more about how sections of the media and the public at large have immediately written off their grievances as being the bleatings of “unwashed bogans”, perhaps the type of people many of us would rather just faded into the background of our national life. That’s not really what I’d call giving the people protesting and their views a fair hearing.

I didn’t find their methods all that objectionable – although that’s perhaps because it didn’t end up as large as it was meant to have been. So long as no-one got hurt, I don’t mind how people express themselves.

I think that these people have likely been expressing themselves politely for years through various channels, such as the National Farmer’s Federation, and so on. But the fact that these channels haven’t been working from the point of view of the protestors, is what leads to events such as the Convoy.

I agree that protesting in a quieter, calmer manner, is more likely to win people (especially quiet, law-abiding public servants in Canberra!) over than making loud threats and suggesting they’d force an election. But as I noted earlier, it certainly worked from a media point of view – full coverage for close to a week. And while it may not have unseated the Government, it may come to be seen as a turning point. For a start, it’s got people talking – including us here on the website 🙂

watto231:48 pm 24 Aug 11

The issue I have will all of this is one political party is telling people what they want to hear and thus constructing a platform to overturn the government. Everyone has a right to free speech and to have their opinion heard. The issue is once some hard nosed opinions are formed its very hard to change them.

I completely agree that the Carbon tax is an easy tool to strike fear into those who are affected. But I’d rather introduce it now than when unemployment is higher.

Also its the catastrophe syndrome. Something with the ability to make a sudden change are always far more publicised. Just like catastrophes of sudden force eg earthquakes and tsunami are treated with far more importance, than something that slowly occurs like the East african famine.

So a Carbon tax may mean a few people lose jobs, but in the current environment, how can we know whether not doing anything about the climate and will mean more people don’t lose their jobs. Seriously do people have such a short memory about the drought we experienced here in this country? That affected a far greater number of people in this country. What if we have less crops to ship around the country, truck drivers will be out of work then also.

Just like the argument about coal miners losing their jobs etc. Are people so scared that if it happens they will never get another job? Sometimes we are too scared to do something and I know many people who lost their job and ended up in a career change and better off.

So if we introduce a carbon tax and the governmemt doesn’t help those who lose a job to retrain or find another job, then I’d be very pissed off with them myself. But we live in a first world country and we should be apreciative of what we have in this country. If the Convoy of No Confidence or Tony Abbott actually has a solution to climate change why don’t they tell us. Then plan I’ve heard is pretty much do nothing because things aren’t serious yet, which is exactly how things like the drought got out of hand. If they put up an alternative plan that was better, wouldn’t you think that the crossbenchers and greens may actually support it. But hey its far easier to spread fear among those easily convinced.

Ryoma said :

So, why shouldn’t we expect this to be the case beyond Canberra as well? There is much talk in the newspapers of a split between metropolitan elites (mainly in Sydney, Canberra and Melbourne) and battlers elsewhere. There may be differences in education and income levels, but it’s also pretty easy for those of us who live here to enjoy our high standard of living, and watch as government legislation (even with the best of intentions) has heavy impacts in other parts of Australia.

We are in grave danger of ending up like the United States unless we learn to bridge the gap in understanding between country and city. Unlike people in the big cities, those in remote parts of Australia can’t just change jobs at the drop of a hat, and neither can whole regions. When the cattle bans were announced, it really did put large areas of northern Australia under immense economic pressure.

Imagine if you had your livelihood taken from you and told there is nothing you can do about it. That is what some of these people are facing. These people deserve a fair hearing in both the media, and by the public at large – not to be scorned and ridiculed.

Ryoma11:10 am 24 Aug 11

+10 Daryl1

You make some good points about the level of debate generally. If we can’t even respect the right for people to express their opionions (whether one agrees with them or not) on a simple website, then we cannot expect our politicians to be any better. It depends upon whether people see themselves as capable of setting their own standards, or simply reacting to what’s out there.

All too often, people from an opposite perspective on any issue are called all the names under the sun. How many of us make an effort to meet and talk to people who hold the opposing point of view? It’s hard work, and it takes guts.

I do not know whether or not Alan Jones and others have stirred things up or not, but I’d imagine that is the case, as after the man makes his living from being controversial. But I would argue that it is likely to be the case from both sides. When these things become heated, I imagine that “the truth” probably sits somewhere in between the perspectives of the opposite points of view…but it is subjective, grey, and slippery.

I, like Daryl, have my own opinion on the carbon tax. I agree with him that there is probably more to it than meets the eye, but I am still broadly in favour of it.

I would also call the Convoy a success on a publicity basis – in fact, so successful was it, that I wonder if a professional firm has had a hand in it. Minimum resources (in terms of actual trucks) but maximum media impact across the country, as well as blanket awareness of it here in Canberra. And if the latest opinion polls are anything to go by, then it was something the Government certainly did not need – which might help explain Albanese’s reaction to it.

Canberrans often get fed up with being lumped together with the decisions made by the Parliament, as if we (all 350,000 of us) are mindless zombies who think in lockstep. Two minutes perusing any topic here on the Riot Act will persuasively prove otheriwse, and show that Canberrans have a wide range of views on any topic.

So, why shouldn’t we expect this to be the case beyond Canberra as well? There is much talk in the newspapers of a split between metropolitan elites (mainly in Sydney, Canberra and Melbourne) and battlers elsewhere. There may be differences in education and income levels, but it’s also pretty easy for those of us who live here to enjoy our high standard of living, and watch as government legislation (even with the best of intentions) has heavy impacts in other parts of Australia.

We are in grave danger of ending up like the United States unless we learn to bridge the gap in understanding between country and city. Unlike people in the big cities, those in remote parts of Australia can’t just change jobs at the drop of a hat, and neither can whole regions. When the cattle bans were announced, it really did put large areas of northern Australia under immense economic pressure.

Imagine if you had your livelihood taken from you and told there is nothing you can do about it. That is what some of these people are facing. These people deserve a fair hearing in both the media, and by the public at large – not to be scorned and ridiculed.

Remember why we have a democracy in the first place – have a close look at the aftermath of the Eureka Stockade, when Lalor and the other miners accused of treason were brought to Melbourne for trial. There was widespread support for the miners from across the community, and the process that followed helped to overturn the Victorian Legislative Council, which had been dominated by rich and powerful men. Without it, and other similar events in other States, Australia may have ended up a very different place, along the lines of Argentina.

There may come a day when real political evil stalks the corridors of power in Canberra. At that time, if the citizens of Canberra are in trouble, who do we think we will be able to call upon? The people we have demonised and ridiculed as backwards rednecks for decades, or our fellow Australians, who will
“swear to stand truly by each other, and fight to defend our rights and liberties”?

creative_canberran3:34 pm 23 Aug 11

Daryl1 said :

Hi Johnboy,

I have been a long term reader of riot act, and decided to join now and post. I have to argue that you particulary have had an agenda to pursue this issue – Some points I agree with you with. Some I don’t. But I have been disguisted with the level of debate on here, with fellow posters language and name calling.

Remember last week? All these complaints on here about the convoy of inconvienience. They were called rednecks, idiots – all these names under the sun. My question to you is did you actually go and to this rally? Did you meet and speak to these people?

I did. Yes you can say the event was a fizzer, but I spoke to 10+ different people from all over Australia. I heard their stories and why they came. This event is being made out that the protestors here were dupped, followers and an angry bunch. The exact opposite is the case. Imagine if you had your livelihood taken from you and told there is nothing you can do about it. That is what some of these people are facing. This was more a symbolic protest – of sending the protestors message to the Government. (Of which the Governemnt from Albanese effectively stuck his finger up back at them with his words).

The people of Canberra complained. That it was not fair, that their lives maybe disturbed. Then when the convoys wern’t here as planned on Monday morning, complained they got to work early – and also many people just took the day off.

The remaining convoy that did come, decided to delay the initial trip in until after peak hour. It was the media that continued to stir the supposed strife.

And lets talk numbers. There were approximately 1000 people there in total, not 200. Like the bike riders. I stood there and counted them before they took off on their protest ride and their were only just over 50, yet its reported as 100. I am also amazed you posted hardly anything last week about the anti carbon tax rally, which again easily had 5,000+ people, but gets reported as 1500-2000. I also went to look at the pro carbon tax rally weeks back and counted roughly 1500-2000 people, but the media report it as 10,000?

I agree Alan Jones should not have reported trucks were not being let in. However, he was obviously told this from what he thought was a reliable source. Otherwise I don’t think he would have said it. Both sides of the debate have said some terrible things. I don’t make excuses for it and if you want to bag him go ahead. But what does it achieve?

One thing I have watched though is the media take hold of Alan Jones and one or 2 other people and then demonise everyone there at the protest. That is not the right thing to do. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but play the facts not the person.

One minute people go after Alan Jones like nothing else, saying he has a huge influence and is full of lyes and attacking the Governemnt and must be stopped etc, and then not many people turn up to this protest and say he has no influence and laugh at him. Australians are not idiots. This idea that anyone against the carbon tax is just a followerer and a sheep and can’t think for themselves and form their own opion and that ALan Jones is causing the revolt on the carbon tax is outragoues.

I have my own opionion on the carbon tax. In fact I can quite easily debate anyone who is pro carbon tax, and show that they need to read more then the Governments website, and actually read the proposed legisilation and notice the things in small print we are not being told. I am entitled to my view, and so are other people who may disagree with me. I respect that. I don’t call them names.

I would call the Convoy a success. Look how much publicity it got. Look at the Canberians who whipped themselves into a frenzy about a convoy coming and inconviencing them. Look at the debate here even on thr Riot ACT about it .For only 300 people apparently! In normal life a protest of 300 wouldn’t get more then a 15 sec mention in the news.

Both sides are great at exageration, and lying. There will always be the extreme views or someone saying something stupid. The Left and Right are both great at this. We live in a great country, have the ability to express our point of views. And at the next election – the truth will be known as Australians take their vote to the ballot.

The politicians, and society need to lift the standard of debate, from name calling and lows and respect the right for people to express their opionions whether you agree with them or not.

Lets lift the standard of the debate.

Could someone please type up a thesis summarising this post for me.

Daryl13:29 pm 23 Aug 11

Hi Johnboy,

I have been a long term reader of riot act, and decided to join now and post. I have to argue that you particulary have had an agenda to pursue this issue – Some points I agree with you with. Some I don’t. But I have been disguisted with the level of debate on here, with fellow posters language and name calling.

Remember last week? All these complaints on here about the convoy of inconvienience. They were called rednecks, idiots – all these names under the sun. My question to you is did you actually go and to this rally? Did you meet and speak to these people?

I did. Yes you can say the event was a fizzer, but I spoke to 10+ different people from all over Australia. I heard their stories and why they came. This event is being made out that the protestors here were dupped, followers and an angry bunch. The exact opposite is the case. Imagine if you had your livelihood taken from you and told there is nothing you can do about it. That is what some of these people are facing. This was more a symbolic protest – of sending the protestors message to the Government. (Of which the Governemnt from Albanese effectively stuck his finger up back at them with his words).

The people of Canberra complained. That it was not fair, that their lives maybe disturbed. Then when the convoys wern’t here as planned on Monday morning, complained they got to work early – and also many people just took the day off.

The remaining convoy that did come, decided to delay the initial trip in until after peak hour. It was the media that continued to stir the supposed strife.

And lets talk numbers. There were approximately 1000 people there in total, not 200. Like the bike riders. I stood there and counted them before they took off on their protest ride and their were only just over 50, yet its reported as 100. I am also amazed you posted hardly anything last week about the anti carbon tax rally, which again easily had 5,000+ people, but gets reported as 1500-2000. I also went to look at the pro carbon tax rally weeks back and counted roughly 1500-2000 people, but the media report it as 10,000?

I agree Alan Jones should not have reported trucks were not being let in. However, he was obviously told this from what he thought was a reliable source. Otherwise I don’t think he would have said it. Both sides of the debate have said some terrible things. I don’t make excuses for it and if you want to bag him go ahead. But what does it achieve?

One thing I have watched though is the media take hold of Alan Jones and one or 2 other people and then demonise everyone there at the protest. That is not the right thing to do. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but play the facts not the person.

One minute people go after Alan Jones like nothing else, saying he has a huge influence and is full of lyes and attacking the Governemnt and must be stopped etc, and then not many people turn up to this protest and say he has no influence and laugh at him. Australians are not idiots. This idea that anyone against the carbon tax is just a followerer and a sheep and can’t think for themselves and form their own opion and that ALan Jones is causing the revolt on the carbon tax is outragoues.

I have my own opionion on the carbon tax. In fact I can quite easily debate anyone who is pro carbon tax, and show that they need to read more then the Governments website, and actually read the proposed legisilation and notice the things in small print we are not being told. I am entitled to my view, and so are other people who may disagree with me. I respect that. I don’t call them names.

I would call the Convoy a success. Look how much publicity it got. Look at the Canberians who whipped themselves into a frenzy about a convoy coming and inconviencing them. Look at the debate here even on thr Riot ACT about it .For only 300 people apparently! In normal life a protest of 300 wouldn’t get more then a 15 sec mention in the news.

Both sides are great at exageration, and lying. There will always be the extreme views or someone saying something stupid. The Left and Right are both great at this. We live in a great country, have the ability to express our point of views. And at the next election – the truth will be known as Australians take their vote to the ballot.

The politicians, and society need to lift the standard of debate, from name calling and lows and respect the right for people to express their opionions whether you agree with them or not.

Lets lift the standard of the debate.

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