Update to “Tharwa Bridge IS safe…”

asp 25 September 2007 32

(a comment from j dawg inspired some designs)

The top design is representative of the overspending on arguably under utilized bike paths and how oftenbike riders are put first at the expense of motorists. Not a day goes by when a cyclists in the Lanyon Valley isn’t cycling on a road not 10m from a proper bike path.

The bottom picture is the solution to the Tharwa bridge saga and the costly ACT Prison project. Work in progress.

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32 Responses to Update to “Tharwa Bridge IS safe…”
Maelinar Maelinar 11:32 am 27 Sep 07

OYM2 – why did you attribute my comment to China being self sufficient in oil ?

On the Chaser they call that a Sedgeway, and you just did one.

Don’t use me to prop up your soap box, as I’m likely to walk away.

OpenYourMind2 OpenYourMind2 10:13 pm 26 Sep 07

Alright, I’ll throw one more comment in because I wasn’t clear. I meant the ‘alternatives’ aren’t viable alternatives.
Hydrogen while being technically a fuel source, we use it as a storage mechanism. We don’t sink a hole in the ground and mine hydrogen. We have to expend a whole bunch of energy to produce hydrogen. The hydrogen then can be stored and used later by various technologies.
My point was that we still need the energy source in the first place to create the hydrogen. So you haven’t really solved the energy problem with hydrogen, you’ve just moved the problem upstream. Of course if you can produce hydrogen efficiently with minimum pollution then you will indeed have a viable alternative.

asp asp 7:37 pm 26 Sep 07

Hydrogen is a friggin alternative.

“The problem with alternative fuels is that they aren’t really a true alternative”
The what is a true alternative if the alternatives aren’t really alternatives? Don’t say it’s cycling. Cycling won’t get you to Sydney as fast as a Boeing 737 or even the XPT.

OpenYourMind2 OpenYourMind2 7:08 pm 26 Sep 07

Bikes and a cycling culture can make a big difference. Of course, it takes much more than just getting people on bikes. Instead, we are heading down the American model where our cities are built with a car culture in mind. People can’t easily just walk down to the shops or have the kids ride to school.

The problem with alternative fuels is that they aren’t really a true alternative, if they were, entrepreneurs would be leaping in to make a buck.
Biofuels are substituting food production for fuel production. Hydrogen, fuel cells, pneumatic cars etc. are simply storage systems. Fuel is still burnt somewhere else before the energy can be stored. Renewables such as wind/solar/wave/geo are all good, but don’t pack the required punch on the scale we need.
That just leaves nukes as a main contender. Nuclear power is only an option if you are prepared to borrow from the infinite future. How do you think the generation 25 on from ours is going to feel about dealing with our waste?

I promise that’s the last I say on the topic and I apologise for digressing so far from the original bridge topic.

asp asp 5:46 pm 26 Sep 07

bikes won’t solve the oil crisis the looms. Alternative fuel for vehicles will. Sure, bikes are good for small trips, but I’m not pedaling to Bateman’s Bay. Nor is the UPS guy going to pedal around Canberra delivering stuff.

OpenYourMind2 OpenYourMind2 5:25 pm 26 Sep 07

Oh, Ralph! Surely you are joking. Being happy about economic opportunities offered by the polar ice cap melting is like a man finding out about his terminal cancer being happy because he doesn’t have to save superannunation any more!

The difference between now and previous passages of the North West is that it is going to be permanently accessible without the use of specialised ships in parts of the year.

And Maelinar, China used to be self sufficient in oil. They, like Australia, are a net importer. USA now imports 3/4 of their oil because their production has peaked and demand has continually grown. If China ends up using per capita oil at the same rate as the US, they would need 13 Saudi Arabias to supply them.

And that’s why making bicycle access easier is important everywhere – even on the Tharwa bridge!

Maelinar Maelinar 9:22 am 26 Sep 07

In China, you are only allowed to ride your bike every second day.

Ralph Ralph 8:51 am 26 Sep 07

OpenYourMind comes out of the woodwork, once again, to shrilly lecture us (in our free society) about the supposed perils of car ownership, and how bikes can deliver us to utopia.

Stop spluttering your bad economics about peak oil as well son.

For your info too, the Northwest Passage has previously been crossed in 1903, 1942, 1944 and and 1969. Golly! You do realise that if the Northwest Passage becomes navigable on a regular basis that this will be a boon to the global economy? Much like the opening of the Panama Canal.

Thumper Thumper 8:11 am 26 Sep 07


at any time did I criticise cyclists.

that would be a no….

I’ve already stated my views on cyclist elsewhere on RA and couldn’t be bothered repeating them.

asp asp 9:52 pm 25 Sep 07

no, but then again, I can’t think of any where where a bike path runs parallel to the road for any distance shorter than 100m-300m. Furthermore, I cant think of any footpath that is only 20m in length, or even less than 100m in length.

Vic Bitterman Vic Bitterman 9:24 pm 25 Sep 07

LOL OpenYourMind2… glad to see you saw through my tirade 🙂

OpenYourMind2 OpenYourMind2 8:31 pm 25 Sep 07

asp, sorry for putting words in your mouth.

Vic Bitterman, thankyou for your intelligent rebuke 🙂

Vic Bitterman Vic Bitterman 8:22 pm 25 Sep 07

Cyclists are tax bludging drains on society. When they start paying their fair share of taxes, of which mine pay for their unused cycling lanes, I may take them seriously.

Until then, they can jam their seat poles up their lycra clad arses. Which, I’m sure most of them being gay, do behind closed doors anyway.

As to the original pic, love it. Love local photoshops 🙂

Aeek Aeek 8:16 pm 25 Sep 07

asp: when walking do you cross the road to use the footpath for 20m ?

asp asp 7:28 pm 25 Sep 07

Thanks for trying to say what my original post was about. But the primary subject WAS the bridge. The introduction of cyclists and the debate over cycle paths was the result of a comment by j dawg (“you forgot to add a nice brand new bridge in the background with the “Pedal Power!” logo on it, and smug cyclists riding across it.”) that suggested.

I feel strongly about how cyclists sometime stupidly use the road when a dedicated cycle path runs parallel to it. So incorporated such an opinion into the design. I was not taking a swipe at cyclists or condemning cyclists who use the road where not practical alternative (such as a parallel bike path) exists.

OpenYourMind2 OpenYourMind2 6:03 pm 25 Sep 07

Thumper, the original posting was not really about the bridge, it was having a go at cyclists. As with similar postings, I’ll respond.

Firstly, let’s clear some misconceptions. The annual direct funding for cycling facilities in the ACT is incredibly small – especially compared to the road budget. Secondly, cars don’t pay their way in the community, they cost. Road trauma alone from motor vehicles exceeds all motoring revenue collected (Sunday Canberra times had an article about it – sourced from Govt transport/Health figures).

You do realise that the majority of that rego you pay is in fact third party person insurance because car drivers keep killing and maiming people?

Why not stop and thank a cyclist for being considerate. Just think, they are reducing your traffic congestion, not polluting, not using the last of our fossil fuels, not taking that last parking place you were hoping for, being healthy-thus costing less to our health system, and not running through child centres, bus interchanges etc. and killing others.

Now, I know there are climate sceptics and peak oil sceptics on this blog and I’m wasting my breath on the most ardent of those, but I’ll add a little back into both of these arguments.
Firstly, are you aware of some of the recent signs of global climate change – eg. Northwest Passage opening up? glaciers melting etc. If you don’t think the 12,750,000,000 litres of oil we burn every day is contributing to this, you are kidding yourself.
Now to oil, the price of oil is now running over $80 a barrel and recently even an ex Shell executive acknowledged that the World is running out and demand is exceeding supply.

So, I’ll finish my rant by encouraging you to thank a cyclist and cheer whenever a cycling facility is constructed.

Stung Stung 4:53 pm 25 Sep 07

stuff the cyclists and their lycra , let them carry their bikes over the water if they want to get exercise.

Mr Evil Mr Evil 3:47 pm 25 Sep 07

I thought they wore lycra because it helps to keep all the body parts together whenever they are cleaned up by a 20 tonne truck?

By the way, I don’t wear lycra: a barrel doesn’t look good clad in lycra! 🙂

Maelinar Maelinar 3:33 pm 25 Sep 07

It is expectable that a Cyclist will attempt to place themselves in mortal danger when wearing lycra. This is a medically proven certainty, as lycra restricts the flow of blood around the body, and thus to the brain. The more lycra they are wearing, the more dangerous their behaviour.

hingo_VRCalaisV6 hingo_VRCalaisV6 3:20 pm 25 Sep 07

Don’t worry Mr Evil, there are wanker drivers everywhere. Usually goes that the higher the vehicle, the bigger the wanker.

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