What I've learnt from catching buses in Canberra

Genie said :

I have been using buses on a regular basis for as long as I can remember, at least 20+ years. I will admit I have been lucky during this time and have lived close to bus stops or had multiple routes available for my use but things are still pretty woeful.

In my teens I was spoilt for choice, I lived near Kippax and could catch one of 4 buses to travel to Belconnen, these would take anywhere from about 10 minutes to 45 minutes. However the biggest problem was that all 4 stops were no where near each other and the buses all came within a 5-10 minute time frame. If I missed one, there was no chance of walking several kms to catch a different route I’d have to wait an hour for the next bus. THIS STILL APPLIES 20 years later. The timetables just aren’t spaced out very well giving people choice. I’ve always been happy to catch a bus with a 2km walk home over waiting 30-45mins for one with a 200m walk home. (I know this doesn’t apply to everyone)

Now living out in Gungahlin the Red Rapid is an amazing service, the buses are still crowded but you’re no longer being turned away at the very first stop because it’s full. Those catching a bus along Flemington no longer have to watch dozens of buses drive past before one is empty enough to stop.

One downside is that they’ve already cut back on the non-stop route 202. Assuming because not a lot of people use this bus as when it first started. Wanna know the reason why? IT NEVER RUNS ON TIME ! This service has only 3 stops but it consistantly LATE. Pick up passengers at Gungahlin Town Centre, stop a few hundred metres up the road at the Hinder St stop (aka the Woolworths end bus stop and the Coles end bus stop) and you don’t stop until you get to the city. Yet I don’t think I’ve ever caught a 202 route at it’s scheduled time, it’s usually at least 10 minutes late so people give up waiting assuming they’ve missed it and catch a standard 2xx bus into the city.

As for the buses from the ‘burbs. It’s quicker for me to drive to the town centre and use the park n ride carpark than it is to walk to my nearest bus stop and catch the bus. (approx 5-10min via car versus up to 45mins on the bus). Many people have already said it, Rapids are great but please start with the suburban routes.

I looked at the weekend timetable from Kippax to Belco, and there are 3 buses per hour I think, but all leave within about 15 mins of each other- so for 45 mins there are no buses- so it’d be better to have them every 20 or 30 mins. I might be wrong, but that is what I worked out. Also, keep bus numbers the same all week- changing the numbers at weekends is so confusing and crazy. Why? So, need weekend buses every 20 or 30 mins Kippax to Belco and return. Too easy, but they choose not to do it… Vanessa

KentFitch said :

Bravo, Vanessa Jones. The irony of this election (as a hitherto ALP/Green voter who thought he was “rusted on”), is that it is the ALP who are acting with born-to-rule arrogance indifferent to the needs of those outside their narrow inner circle.

From many comments extolling the benefits of the tram on those and other social media, the ALP/Greens are now representing those that have won life’s lottery, those for whom the inevitable reversal of fortunes cannot be imagined.

They cannot imagine what it must be like to haul 4 bags of groceries home from the bus stop in the rain, or how the lack of access to convenient transport can damage your dignity and reduce social and economic opportunities.

They have given up arguing against their own internally produced documents: the tram is no longer a transport solution, but part of progress towards a social utopia based on one spurious argument, that people prefer standing on a tram to sitting on a bus.

Good to meet you on Twitter, Kent. It’s a huge debate. I think if we focus on the basics, ie not getting wet & getting bus shelters, and having weekend buses every 20 or 30 mins, life would improve for many, and the Canberra economy would improve- ie easier for me to get out on weekends and spend money on outings. Plus improved mental and physical health for all non drivers- by being more mobile and active, generally.

pink little birdie said :

KentFitch said :

Bravo, Vanessa Jones. The irony of this election (as a hitherto ALP/Green voter who thought he was “rusted on”), is that it is the ALP who are acting with born-to-rule arrogance indifferent to the needs of those outside their narrow inner circle.

From many comments extolling the benefits of the tram on those and other social media, the ALP/Greens are now representing those that have won life’s lottery, those for whom the inevitable reversal of fortunes cannot be imagined.

They cannot imagine what it must be like to haul 4 bags of groceries home from the bus stop in the rain, or how the lack of access to convenient transport can damage your dignity and reduce social and economic opportunities.

They have given up arguing against their own internally produced documents: the tram is no longer a transport solution, but part of progress towards a social utopia based on one spurious argument, that people prefer standing on a tram to sitting on a bus.

I’m really confused about the having to carry groceries home from the bus stop arguments.
When I was a kid there was a few periods when we didn’t have a car. So most nights people would either get off at the local shops and pick up a few groceries that were needed for the next day and walk the remainder 2 kms home with the groceries. On weekends my mum would take 2 (out of 4) and walk over for a bigger shop and again we would have to walk it home again with backpacks and bags in each hand.
Now my husband and I specifically choose a place that we could walk to work which also happens to be on the other side of a shopping centre – this means that we buy less becasue we carry it home and we buy what we are going to use in smaller but more frequent trips. I don’t really see how carrying groceries is an argument.

Also the majors now do grocery deliveries so I don’t think it’s as big an issue.
Surely also people have friends that would help out with driving if you needed it occasionally.
The community services organisations also provide driving services for the elderly and disabled.

The best help for non drivers is bulk home delivery from supermarkets. Order heaps of everything every 2 months. Heaven!!!!! Saves carrying heavy loads home from shops. Once I ordered about 40 long life milk (for extras- I prefer fresh) and heaps of everything, included heaps of loo paper rolls- the delivery guy said “I thought this was for a childcare centre”!! It saves carrying heavy/bulky loads home. Getting 10 of everything at one time really helps. The internet has helped this happen. Mail order from overseas is great, ie free shipping with M&S was fun, with the weak pound- easier than local shopping, and cheaper. Also, a wheelie shopping trolley is great- I got one on ebay, like elderly people use. Vanessa

JC said :

rommeldog56 said :

Vanessa Jones said :

Yes, agree. Problem is when you have to catch buses, ie rain, cold etc… so need shelters etc. Vanessa

Yep – I much prefer the old concrete with orange trim bus shelters – so much better than those new ones, which don’t give nearly as much “shelter” anyway. At least to me the old ones look better too. But hey, this is new Canberra – so out with the old and in with the new – whether it was needed or not.

They are still around.

Build new ones.

carnardly said :

the new clear glass/perspex shelters do nothing to protect anyone from the rain. The seat is usually totally soaked as well so nobody ever sits on it or puts their bag down when its raining.

totally useless design in protecting people from the elements, and like others above have said, a number have been replaced time and time again due to vandalism.

Bring back concrete bus shelters.

wildturkeycanoe said :

Regarding the new bus shelters, apart from providing less protection from the elements, they also are very susceptible to vandalism. The one closest to us has had panes replaced at least half a dozen times since its creation. I quizzed the glazier when I spotted him fixing it as to why they didn’t use Lexan instead and was told that it burns substantially better so becomes a fire hazard. They were installing laminated safety glass to make the cleanup easier, but I doubt it will deter the perpetrators from trying.
They also allow the rain to blow straight in from the front and have a gap at the bottom, which allows wind to blow straight past your legs unimpeded. You’d be pushing the limits of personal space to seat more than four people on the bench too. Worst design ever.
One thing that annoys me the most about catching the bus is the scheduling. Apart from having only hourly services from the nearest stop at our place, meaning you may have to wait for up to 45 minutes for the next service, the next connection is probably another 15 minutes wait to catch the express. If you decide to catch the meandering suburban collector service to save you that 15 minute wait, it takes so long that you end up getting to the main station later than if you’d waited for the express.
I am very thankful my bus taking days are over now I am behind the wheel of a reliable car again, because I can not only get the kids to school on time AND make appointments scheduled shortly thereafter, but I won’t get wet, cold and miserable in the process.

miz said :

As a fellow bus user, totally agree with your points about rapid bus (to serve everyone), those useless new shelters (ad stands really), and the terrible weekend/after hours service. They were meant to reinstate the ‘old’ weekend timetable, in, I think, 2008. Still waiting.

Rapids are great, bring back concrete bus shelters, make weekend buses every 20 or 30 mins.

pink little birdie said :

KentFitch said :

Bravo, Vanessa Jones. The irony of this election (as a hitherto ALP/Green voter who thought he was “rusted on”), is that it is the ALP who are acting with born-to-rule arrogance indifferent to the needs of those outside their narrow inner circle.

From many comments extolling the benefits of the tram on those and other social media, the ALP/Greens are now representing those that have won life’s lottery, those for whom the inevitable reversal of fortunes cannot be imagined.

They cannot imagine what it must be like to haul 4 bags of groceries home from the bus stop in the rain, or how the lack of access to convenient transport can damage your dignity and reduce social and economic opportunities.

They have given up arguing against their own internally produced documents: the tram is no longer a transport solution, but part of progress towards a social utopia based on one spurious argument, that people prefer standing on a tram to sitting on a bus.

I’m really confused about the having to carry groceries home from the bus stop arguments.
When I was a kid there was a few periods when we didn’t have a car. So most nights people would either get off at the local shops and pick up a few groceries that were needed for the next day and walk the remainder 2 kms home with the groceries. On weekends my mum would take 2 (out of 4) and walk over for a bigger shop and again we would have to walk it home again with backpacks and bags in each hand.
Now my husband and I specifically choose a place that we could walk to work which also happens to be on the other side of a shopping centre – this means that we buy less becasue we carry it home and we buy what we are going to use in smaller but more frequent trips. I don’t really see how carrying groceries is an argument.

Also the majors now do grocery deliveries so I don’t think it’s as big an issue.
Surely also people have friends that would help out with driving if you needed it occasionally.
The community services organisations also provide driving services for the elderly and disabled.

I don’t get the grocery’s argument either. Sure the car is more convenient, but bringing the groceries home by other means is not, for most people, as difficult as some people have painted it to be for themselves. I have brought groceries home by bus, but I would rather get off at the local shops and get the groceries there and carry them home. The bicycle can also carry a lot of groceries, especially if the journey is longer. I once brought two dinner sets home on the bus and then carried them home. Instead of say, shopping weekly/fortnightly, smaller shops can be done too to lesson the load.
My elderly mother shops locally and then has the groceries delivered.

the new clear glass/perspex shelters do nothing to protect anyone from the rain. The seat is usually totally soaked as well so nobody ever sits on it or puts their bag down when its raining. totally useless design in protecting people from the elements, and like others above have said, a number have been replaced time and time again due to vandalism.

rommeldog56 said :

Vanessa Jones said :

Yes, agree. Problem is when you have to catch buses, ie rain, cold etc… so need shelters etc. Vanessa

Yep – I much prefer the old concrete with orange trim bus shelters – so much better than those new ones, which don’t give nearly as much “shelter” anyway. At least to me the old ones look better too. But hey, this is new Canberra – so out with the old and in with the new – whether it was needed or not.

They are still around.

KentFitch said :

Bravo, Vanessa Jones. The irony of this election (as a hitherto ALP/Green voter who thought he was “rusted on”), is that it is the ALP who are acting with born-to-rule arrogance indifferent to the needs of those outside their narrow inner circle.

From many comments extolling the benefits of the tram on those and other social media, the ALP/Greens are now representing those that have won life’s lottery, those for whom the inevitable reversal of fortunes cannot be imagined.

They cannot imagine what it must be like to haul 4 bags of groceries home from the bus stop in the rain, or how the lack of access to convenient transport can damage your dignity and reduce social and economic opportunities.

They have given up arguing against their own internally produced documents: the tram is no longer a transport solution, but part of progress towards a social utopia based on one spurious argument, that people prefer standing on a tram to sitting on a bus.

I’m really confused about the having to carry groceries home from the bus stop arguments.
When I was a kid there was a few periods when we didn’t have a car. So most nights people would either get off at the local shops and pick up a few groceries that were needed for the next day and walk the remainder 2 kms home with the groceries. On weekends my mum would take 2 (out of 4) and walk over for a bigger shop and again we would have to walk it home again with backpacks and bags in each hand.
Now my husband and I specifically choose a place that we could walk to work which also happens to be on the other side of a shopping centre – this means that we buy less becasue we carry it home and we buy what we are going to use in smaller but more frequent trips. I don’t really see how carrying groceries is an argument.

Also the majors now do grocery deliveries so I don’t think it’s as big an issue.
Surely also people have friends that would help out with driving if you needed it occasionally.
The community services organisations also provide driving services for the elderly and disabled.

I have been using buses on a regular basis for as long as I can remember, at least 20+ years. I will admit I have been lucky during this time and have lived close to bus stops or had multiple routes available for my use but things are still pretty woeful.

In my teens I was spoilt for choice, I lived near Kippax and could catch one of 4 buses to travel to Belconnen, these would take anywhere from about 10 minutes to 45 minutes. However the biggest problem was that all 4 stops were no where near each other and the buses all came within a 5-10 minute time frame. If I missed one, there was no chance of walking several kms to catch a different route I’d have to wait an hour for the next bus. THIS STILL APPLIES 20 years later. The timetables just aren’t spaced out very well giving people choice. I’ve always been happy to catch a bus with a 2km walk home over waiting 30-45mins for one with a 200m walk home. (I know this doesn’t apply to everyone)

Now living out in Gungahlin the Red Rapid is an amazing service, the buses are still crowded but you’re no longer being turned away at the very first stop because it’s full. Those catching a bus along Flemington no longer have to watch dozens of buses drive past before one is empty enough to stop.

One downside is that they’ve already cut back on the non-stop route 202. Assuming because not a lot of people use this bus as when it first started. Wanna know the reason why? IT NEVER RUNS ON TIME ! This service has only 3 stops but it consistantly LATE. Pick up passengers at Gungahlin Town Centre, stop a few hundred metres up the road at the Hinder St stop (aka the Woolworths end bus stop and the Coles end bus stop) and you don’t stop until you get to the city. Yet I don’t think I’ve ever caught a 202 route at it’s scheduled time, it’s usually at least 10 minutes late so people give up waiting assuming they’ve missed it and catch a standard 2xx bus into the city.

As for the buses from the ‘burbs. It’s quicker for me to drive to the town centre and use the park n ride carpark than it is to walk to my nearest bus stop and catch the bus. (approx 5-10min via car versus up to 45mins on the bus). Many people have already said it, Rapids are great but please start with the suburban routes.

Bravo, Vanessa Jones. The irony of this election (as a hitherto ALP/Green voter who thought he was “rusted on”), is that it is the ALP who are acting with born-to-rule arrogance indifferent to the needs of those outside their narrow inner circle.

From many comments extolling the benefits of the tram on those and other social media, the ALP/Greens are now representing those that have won life’s lottery, those for whom the inevitable reversal of fortunes cannot be imagined.

They cannot imagine what it must be like to haul 4 bags of groceries home from the bus stop in the rain, or how the lack of access to convenient transport can damage your dignity and reduce social and economic opportunities.

They have given up arguing against their own internally produced documents: the tram is no longer a transport solution, but part of progress towards a social utopia based on one spurious argument, that people prefer standing on a tram to sitting on a bus.

Vanessa Jones said :

Yes, agree. Problem is when you have to catch buses, ie rain, cold etc… so need shelters etc. Vanessa

Yep – I much prefer the old concrete with orange trim bus shelters – so much better than those new ones, which don’t give nearly as much “shelter” anyway. At least to me the old ones look better too. But hey, this is new Canberra – so out with the old and in with the new – whether it was needed or not.

Regarding the new bus shelters, apart from providing less protection from the elements, they also are very susceptible to vandalism. The one closest to us has had panes replaced at least half a dozen times since its creation. I quizzed the glazier when I spotted him fixing it as to why they didn’t use Lexan instead and was told that it burns substantially better so becomes a fire hazard. They were installing laminated safety glass to make the cleanup easier, but I doubt it will deter the perpetrators from trying.
They also allow the rain to blow straight in from the front and have a gap at the bottom, which allows wind to blow straight past your legs unimpeded. You’d be pushing the limits of personal space to seat more than four people on the bench too. Worst design ever.
One thing that annoys me the most about catching the bus is the scheduling. Apart from having only hourly services from the nearest stop at our place, meaning you may have to wait for up to 45 minutes for the next service, the next connection is probably another 15 minutes wait to catch the express. If you decide to catch the meandering suburban collector service to save you that 15 minute wait, it takes so long that you end up getting to the main station later than if you’d waited for the express.
I am very thankful my bus taking days are over now I am behind the wheel of a reliable car again, because I can not only get the kids to school on time AND make appointments scheduled shortly thereafter, but I won’t get wet, cold and miserable in the process.

As a fellow bus user, totally agree with your points about rapid bus (to serve everyone), those useless new shelters (ad stands really), and the terrible weekend/after hours service. They were meant to reinstate the ‘old’ weekend timetable, in, I think, 2008. Still waiting.

Leon Arundell said :

Independent candidate Marea Fatseas cares about facilities for Canberra’s 10,000 children and 8,000 adults who walk all the way to school or work, and for the 25,000 who walk part of the way.

The parties seem to be falling over themselves to spend yet more money on the mere 27,000 Canberrans who commute by public transport (2011 census and census@school).

Does anyone else care about walking?

I walk a lot, we need footpaths and oval paths out here. Vanessa

Nilrem said :

Sometimes being a non-driver is quite relaxing. I particularly enjoying surfing the web and doing emails on my bus ride to work. I arrive quite relaxed, in stark contrast to the days when I drive and have to deal with the aggro congestion on Northbourne Avenue in peak hour.

Yes, agree. Problem is when you have to catch buses, ie rain, cold etc… so need shelters etc. Vanessa

JC said :

Vanessa not going to get into the light rail debate as such as I think light rail would only work on one corridor in Canberra which is City to Gungahlin, and not as a service for those in wider Gungahlin but those that live along it.

Buses on the other hand service the outter burbs including Gungahlin burbs like where I now live. (I grew up/lived in Macgregor and Dunlop since the mid 70’s, so know that area well)

But to concentrate on bus rapid as a solution, do you really think that bus rapid would cut down travel times from the outer suburbs of Canberra?

I personally think the answer is no. The biggest problem slowing down buses is they meander through low density housing estates. To fill a bus they need to go through (depending upon suburb of course) at least 3 sometimes 4 suburbs to get sufficient passengers. Once they get to somewhere like Belconnen town centre, where a BRT would start they have already spent the best part of 30-40 minutes getting there. Then the trip from say Belconnen to the City, you might shave a few minutes off a trip, but it wouldn’t be a significant amount nor an incentive to change modes from car to bus.

Then of course we need to look at the routes the buses would take. In years gone by express buses (the old 333) from Belconnen to the City used to run express, only stopping at the ANU and Marcus Clarke Street, and it was via Eastern Valley Way and Belconnen way. Took 15 minutes and I reckon today with increased traffic 20 on the same route. But it missed UC, CIT and the hospital. The change to go via College Street and Haydon Drive, added about 7 and now closer to 10 minutes to the trip but added UC, CIT and the hospital, where on every trip a number of passengers get on or off. So a worthwhile change as before this area was very under serviced, I know as I used to study at CIT Bruce and drove because the bus was hopeless.

Whats that got to do with BRT? If you were going to run one from Belconnen to the City would you ignore these major passenger generators or would you continue to serve them? If you dropped them and reverted to the old 333 route we could, maybe with BRT go back to 15 minute trip times Belco to the City, and without BRT about 20 minutes. But if we were to serve UC, CIT and the Hospital with BRT, then buses need to stop, which would mean the time saved would be miniscule as there would be limited scope to pick up speed between those stops.

I laughted at the proposal from Labor, yes Labor years ago saying they could cut bus travel time down to 15 minutes by building a BRT whilst still serving CIT, UC and the hospital, but the only way it was physically possible is if buses traveled at about 120km/h from the hospital to the City. Impossible.

And looking south to Woden for a second, the route and timings are pretty much unchanged from the 333 of days gone by. The only major difference is going anti clockwise around London circuit Belconnen bound rather than clockwise as they did before. Part of the route is already an dedicated bus only lane, so how much time could be saved? Again biggest time waster is getting from the Woden suburbs to Adelaide Ave. BRT won’t fix that.

So really what is the point of BRT?

Only real way to improve transport to the burbs is to minimise the amount of suburbs a bus needs to travel trough, though that itself is difficult owing to the hierarchical design of shops in the ACT. Take Dunlop for example. Quickest way to Belconnen would be via Ginninderra Drive and Coulter Street, but that would mean missing Kippax. So do we have local buses that go through the burbs to link suburbs to group centres and then have town centre buses that do one suburb and then to the town centre and beyond? Don’t think the answer is easy, nor do I think the answer is BRT either.

The other way is more express buses from the burbs to the city. But they don’t need BRT either, they just need to avoid travelling via the town centre and places like College and Haydon Drive. That is where the time is saved. And on the times I’ve caught express buses been really well patronised.

Thanks for the thoughts. I find rapids v useful, very quick too. The slower suburban buses are so slow in comparison. Designing the best system is another article! Vanessa

Madam Cholet said :

Vanessa, I know your are a candidate and we’re asked to write something about buses in Canberra, but I have to say I think that might be the best rebuttal to the tram written so far. Simple, to the point and written from the perspective of someone who may even benefit from trams done the right way.

I’m not anti-tram in general, but I am anti-tram as it has been designed.

Unfortunately I don’t live in Gininderra – but good luck all the same.

Thanks MC, very generous of you! Vanessa

Southerly_views said :

Interesting article and point-of-view, especially about bus shelters. The fancy new glass shelters still leave people exposed to the cold wind and rain unlike the old circular solid concrete shelters shown in the photo above. I think the attraction for government is the new glass shelters are provided free-of-charge by a supplier which then sells advertising space. Unfortunately I have already seen a few shattered glass shelters being repaired after vandalism.

While the tram arguments remain ongoing we live in a Tuggeranong suburb where the nearest bus stop is a 2.1 km walk from our homes. Ten years ago ACTION proposed school only bus stops and after 3 community meetings and many letters they installed them nearby. At least now our kids can catch the bus to the nearest school (4.5 km away after the two closer schools were closed). They no longer have to walk the 2km to the regular bus stop in the winter cold and rain or the summer heat. However, if the kids want to bus to Tuggeranong, Woden or Civic they still have to walk the 2km to the regular bus stop. While everyone argues about the benefits of the new tram we are still waiting for a regular ACTION bus service within close proximity to our homes. ACTION talks about servicing the tram in Gungahlin with more frequent local services but in our suburb after twenty years we are still waiting for a bus stop. It doesn’t look at all promising for the future either.

Interesting comments- the outer areas have a hard time with buses I think. Vanessa

Maya123 said :

Nilrem said :

Sometimes being a non-driver is quite relaxing. I particularly enjoying surfing the web and doing emails on my bus ride to work. I arrive quite relaxed, in stark contrast to the days when I drive and have to deal with the aggro congestion on Northbourne Avenue in peak hour.

I’m retired now, but I feel that way when I catch the bus to the shops, or my volunteer job. Much less stressful, and no hassle with parking. Today though, I will cycle, as it’s nice weather.

Yes, buses can be nice. Sometimes you can miss driving, though. Especially for some locations and heavy loads. Vanessa

rogelio said :

Love this article! As a person who solely depends on buses, weekend bus time table is the absolute worst. I work in Majura. There is one bus every hour. If I finish work at 5:30, The bus comes at 6:18. Then I get to civic at around 6:55 and then the 900 series take 15-20 minutes and I reach home at 7:30ish. Its crazy! Especially during winter!

That sounds really difficult. Vanessa

Leon Arundell said :

Independent candidate Marea Fatseas cares about facilities for Canberra’s 10,000 children and 8,000 adults who walk all the way to school or work, and for the 25,000 who walk part of the way.

The parties seem to be falling over themselves to spend yet more money on the mere 27,000 Canberrans who commute by public transport (2011 census and census@school).

Does anyone else care about walking?

The Labor, greens and a couple of independents do care – at least I raised the issue in Ginninderra and Kim Fisher ran across to Vijay Dubey (an independent to include him in the conversation . But realistically what are the issues that walkers have that aren’t covered by increased shared paths and the cycling infrastructure?
Most students who walk to school only walk through surburban streets which are already low speed. Liberals have promised flashing lights at schools and Labor have promised lollypop people to supervise crossings.
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/act-election-2016/act-election-labor-to-employ-lollipop-people-to-supervise-school-crossings-20161009-gry50c.html

The only issue I can think of is safer road crossings at traffic lights where there are not pedestrian crossings on all sides of the intersections. (Eg Ginninderra drive, Baldwin and Haydon, Ginniderra drive and into UC, Ginninderra drive and Aikman, Luxton and Laithlain streets).

Love this article! As a person who solely depends on buses, weekend bus time table is the absolute worst. I work in Majura. There is one bus every hour. If I finish work at 5:30, The bus comes at 6:18. Then I get to civic at around 6:55 and then the 900 series take 15-20 minutes and I reach home at 7:30ish. Its crazy! Especially during winter!

What nonsense! I am a regular bus user who doesn’t have an investment property on Northbourne Ave and I support light rail!
A good summary of why ‘more buses’ isn’t the answer to our transport and congestion woes can be found here: http://www.actlightrail.info/2016/10/more-buses-ultimate-band-aid-solution.html?m=1

Nilrem said :

Sometimes being a non-driver is quite relaxing. I particularly enjoying surfing the web and doing emails on my bus ride to work. I arrive quite relaxed, in stark contrast to the days when I drive and have to deal with the aggro congestion on Northbourne Avenue in peak hour.

I’m retired now, but I feel that way when I catch the bus to the shops, or my volunteer job. Much less stressful, and no hassle with parking. Today though, I will cycle, as it’s nice weather.

Independent candidate Marea Fatseas cares about facilities for Canberra’s 10,000 children and 8,000 adults who walk all the way to school or work, and for the 25,000 who walk part of the way.

The parties seem to be falling over themselves to spend yet more money on the mere 27,000 Canberrans who commute by public transport (2011 census and census@school).

Does anyone else care about walking?

Nilrem said :

Sometimes being a non-driver is quite relaxing. I particularly enjoying surfing the web and doing emails on my bus ride to work. I arrive quite relaxed, in stark contrast to the days when I drive and have to deal with the aggro congestion on Northbourne Avenue in peak hour.

Yep – buses are great for that. Very relaxing trip. Far less passengers will be able to will be able to sit in the tram though.

Sometimes being a non-driver is quite relaxing. I particularly enjoying surfing the web and doing emails on my bus ride to work. I arrive quite relaxed, in stark contrast to the days when I drive and have to deal with the aggro congestion on Northbourne Avenue in peak hour.

Vanessa, I know your are a candidate and we’re asked to write something about buses in Canberra, but I have to say I think that might be the best rebuttal to the tram written so far. Simple, to the point and written from the perspective of someone who may even benefit from trams done the right way.

I’m not anti-tram in general, but I am anti-tram as it has been designed.

Unfortunately I don’t live in Gininderra – but good luck all the same.

Interesting article and point-of-view, especially about bus shelters. The fancy new glass shelters still leave people exposed to the cold wind and rain unlike the old circular solid concrete shelters shown in the photo above. I think the attraction for government is the new glass shelters are provided free-of-charge by a supplier which then sells advertising space. Unfortunately I have already seen a few shattered glass shelters being repaired after vandalism.

While the tram arguments remain ongoing we live in a Tuggeranong suburb where the nearest bus stop is a 2.1 km walk from our homes. Ten years ago ACTION proposed school only bus stops and after 3 community meetings and many letters they installed them nearby. At least now our kids can catch the bus to the nearest school (4.5 km away after the two closer schools were closed). They no longer have to walk the 2km to the regular bus stop in the winter cold and rain or the summer heat. However, if the kids want to bus to Tuggeranong, Woden or Civic they still have to walk the 2km to the regular bus stop. While everyone argues about the benefits of the new tram we are still waiting for a regular ACTION bus service within close proximity to our homes. ACTION talks about servicing the tram in Gungahlin with more frequent local services but in our suburb after twenty years we are still waiting for a bus stop. It doesn’t look at all promising for the future either.

Vanessa not going to get into the light rail debate as such as I think light rail would only work on one corridor in Canberra which is City to Gungahlin, and not as a service for those in wider Gungahlin but those that live along it.

Buses on the other hand service the outter burbs including Gungahlin burbs like where I now live. (I grew up/lived in Macgregor and Dunlop since the mid 70’s, so know that area well)

But to concentrate on bus rapid as a solution, do you really think that bus rapid would cut down travel times from the outer suburbs of Canberra?

I personally think the answer is no. The biggest problem slowing down buses is they meander through low density housing estates. To fill a bus they need to go through (depending upon suburb of course) at least 3 sometimes 4 suburbs to get sufficient passengers. Once they get to somewhere like Belconnen town centre, where a BRT would start they have already spent the best part of 30-40 minutes getting there. Then the trip from say Belconnen to the City, you might shave a few minutes off a trip, but it wouldn’t be a significant amount nor an incentive to change modes from car to bus.

Then of course we need to look at the routes the buses would take. In years gone by express buses (the old 333) from Belconnen to the City used to run express, only stopping at the ANU and Marcus Clarke Street, and it was via Eastern Valley Way and Belconnen way. Took 15 minutes and I reckon today with increased traffic 20 on the same route. But it missed UC, CIT and the hospital. The change to go via College Street and Haydon Drive, added about 7 and now closer to 10 minutes to the trip but added UC, CIT and the hospital, where on every trip a number of passengers get on or off. So a worthwhile change as before this area was very under serviced, I know as I used to study at CIT Bruce and drove because the bus was hopeless.

Whats that got to do with BRT? If you were going to run one from Belconnen to the City would you ignore these major passenger generators or would you continue to serve them? If you dropped them and reverted to the old 333 route we could, maybe with BRT go back to 15 minute trip times Belco to the City, and without BRT about 20 minutes. But if we were to serve UC, CIT and the Hospital with BRT, then buses need to stop, which would mean the time saved would be miniscule as there would be limited scope to pick up speed between those stops.

I laughted at the proposal from Labor, yes Labor years ago saying they could cut bus travel time down to 15 minutes by building a BRT whilst still serving CIT, UC and the hospital, but the only way it was physically possible is if buses traveled at about 120km/h from the hospital to the City. Impossible.

And looking south to Woden for a second, the route and timings are pretty much unchanged from the 333 of days gone by. The only major difference is going anti clockwise around London circuit Belconnen bound rather than clockwise as they did before. Part of the route is already an dedicated bus only lane, so how much time could be saved? Again biggest time waster is getting from the Woden suburbs to Adelaide Ave. BRT won’t fix that.

So really what is the point of BRT?

Only real way to improve transport to the burbs is to minimise the amount of suburbs a bus needs to travel trough, though that itself is difficult owing to the hierarchical design of shops in the ACT. Take Dunlop for example. Quickest way to Belconnen would be via Ginninderra Drive and Coulter Street, but that would mean missing Kippax. So do we have local buses that go through the burbs to link suburbs to group centres and then have town centre buses that do one suburb and then to the town centre and beyond? Don’t think the answer is easy, nor do I think the answer is BRT either.

The other way is more express buses from the burbs to the city. But they don’t need BRT either, they just need to avoid travelling via the town centre and places like College and Haydon Drive. That is where the time is saved. And on the times I’ve caught express buses been really well patronised.

As a semi regular bus user in Canberra for about three decades, I am curious as to why the Liberal plan for rapid busways is supposedly much better than the Labor plan for light rail. Can you support your opinion?

When it comes to late night busses, yes it would be nice if we could increase frequency. But who pays? We are going to add a dozen extra busses to pick up nobody except that one lady on that one Saturday night. For those scenarios, Taxi or Uber is the better option. “But that costs money” you say. I already subsidise you $6 per trip on the bus, maybe being without a car and saving a few thousand a year on private transport you could pay for an Uber once every now and then?

I can see you are not only an impatient bus user but an inattentive driver. When I ride a bus I can see the world around me with my own eyes. When I drive, my attention is entirely on the task: road around me, traffic around me, what my next action needs to be. I am certainly not daydreaming about investment properties or wasteful spending on busways.

You sure have an axe to grind about investment properties. How many investment properties do the Liberals have? Why are they so quiet about their own investments?