Woden Babar Discriminate Against Transgenders

+1

Just go camping. Dig a hole, they’re gender neutral and without any preconceptions.

Anyone who watches you use said hole is a freak, regardless of yours or their gender.

Mind the bull ants.

Henry, Jim, Peter, Killer, Deeza, I’m no dick. I’m the balls.

Can you hack it.

The answer is no.

Bad luck Peterh that makes you the toad.

🙂 And I am a princess.

OK now it’s me that feels like a dick.

Clown Killer said :

WTF peterh and Deezagood? Save you breath princesses. In you’re hurry to get all hot under the collarand indignant about whatever bandwagon you’re pushing this week so completely missed what was a lucid and well articulated point. I just said what you did but didn’t waste so many key strokes and avoided getting my panties in a twist.

Oh I wasn’t having a shot at you at all CK … didn’t realise Peterh had included your quote in his. I thought your contribution was extremely accurate and beautiful in its brevity.

Which I beleive is the OPs point. Yes she has a penis, but no she’s not a man. It’s pretty easy really so you would expect even a cafe manager to be able to deal with that but apparently not.

Clown Killer said :

WTF peterh and Deezagood? Save you breath princesses. In you’re hurry to get all hot under the collarand indignant about whatever bandwagon you’re pushing this week so completely missed what was a lucid and well articulated point. I just said what you did but didn’t waste so many key strokes and avoided getting my panties in a twist.

CK, the way that it appeared under my post looked as if you were having a shot at me. if this wasn’t the case, apologies. But that is how I read it.

deezagood said :

peterh said :

Clown Killer said :

If you have a Penis and Testes, you are a man.

no, you are male. they don’t make you a man…

And if you cant tell the diference in the context of this thread then you are a tool.

really? so a woman that believes in her heart that she is really a man – without the testes and penis isn’t a man? Being a man differs from being male. believing that you are a man is a state of mind. being male is a natural state that can be achieved with reassignment. BUT, if the person who undergoes reassignment does not believe that they are a man, the process is in vain. They must believe in their heart that they are a man. and i can tell the difference in this context. tool yourself.

Don’t bother Peter … just don’t bother. It just isn’t worth your time (you simply can’t educate the truly ignorant).

I am male by birth, and a man because I believe that I am one. Many people I know are male by birth, and women because they believe in their hearts that they are. belief is a powerful thing. I wish that the people who cannot understand the reasons that people change gender are not purely based on appearance? some males i knew were ugly men and are now ugly women, they even admit it. and they are happy with the change. they didn’t do it to change their appearance, just to be happy with who they truly are.

WTF peterh and Deezagood? Save you breath princesses. In you’re hurry to get all hot under the collarand indignant about whatever bandwagon you’re pushing this week so completely missed what was a lucid and well articulated point. I just said what you did but didn’t waste so many key strokes and avoided getting my panties in a twist.

peterh said :

Clown Killer said :

If you have a Penis and Testes, you are a man.

no, you are male. they don’t make you a man…

And if you cant tell the diference in the context of this thread then you are a tool.

really? so a woman that believes in her heart that she is really a man – without the testes and penis isn’t a man? Being a man differs from being male. believing that you are a man is a state of mind. being male is a natural state that can be achieved with reassignment. BUT, if the person who undergoes reassignment does not believe that they are a man, the process is in vain. They must believe in their heart that they are a man. and i can tell the difference in this context. tool yourself.

Don’t bother Peter … just don’t bother. It just isn’t worth your time (you simply can’t educate the truly ignorant).

Clown Killer said :

If you have a Penis and Testes, you are a man.

no, you are male. they don’t make you a man…

And if you cant tell the diference in the context of this thread then you are a tool.

really? so a woman that believes in her heart that she is really a man – without the testes and penis isn’t a man? Being a man differs from being male. believing that you are a man is a state of mind. being male is a natural state that can be achieved with reassignment. BUT, if the person who undergoes reassignment does not believe that they are a man, the process is in vain. They must believe in their heart that they are a man. and i can tell the difference in this context. tool yourself.

G-Fresh said :

If you have a Penis and Testes, you are a man.

And you, quite clearly, are not much of one

If you have a Penis and Testes, you are a man.

no, you are male. they don’t make you a man…

And if you cant tell the diference in the context of this thread then you are a tool.

G-Fresh said :

If you have a Penis and Testes, you are a man.

no, you are male. they don’t make you a man…

G-Fresh said :

If you have a Penis and Testes, you are a man.

And you’re a dick.

G-Fresh said :

If you have a Penis and Testes, you are a man.

And if you have a “G” in front of your name you are obviously a gangsta!

Idiot!

If you have a Penis and Testes, you are a man.

Deadmandrinking said :

Well said Jim Jones.

Note I also said ‘violent homophobes’ indicating that I was discussing homophobes who are violent.

That being said, I think that ‘people who disagree with the concept of same sex relationships’ are ignorant fools. If that’s being discriminatory, well, f-k mate, what the hell are those people doing in the first place?

But surely being a homophobe doesn’t automatically make you violent? What about the Pope? or is he offering pooftahs out all over the Vatican after a couple of pints?

DarkLadyWolfMother said :

I probably wasn’t clear about my being ‘uncomfortable’ in Male toilets. I don’t believe the one at Babar would be a problem for that reason. However, having had a few issues in male toilets before I fully came out, I have a general feeling of unease around them. Now that I dress female all the time, I also feel even less comfortable going in there.

peterh, do you know me? Or did I mention my height/etc here? I’m intrigued now 🙂

geek girls event.

I probably wasn’t clear about my being ‘uncomfortable’ in Male toilets. I don’t believe the one at Babar would be a problem for that reason. However, having had a few issues in male toilets before I fully came out, I have a general feeling of unease around them. Now that I dress female all the time, I also feel even less comfortable going in there.

peterh, do you know me? Or did I mention my height/etc here? I’m intrigued now 🙂

I am fairly crtain that DLWM wouldn’t have much to fear, she is a very tall person.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

Dunno if the OP is worried about attacks in the bathroom or not. I wouldn’t imagine it would be a big issue in Babar.

Which is exactly why I couldn’t really see the relationship between the two issues…

Anyway, hopefully DLWM gets a good outcome.

Agreed.

Dunno if the OP is worried about attacks in the bathroom or not. I wouldn’t imagine it would be a big issue in Babar.

Which is exactly why I couldn’t really see the relationship between the two issues…

Anyway, hopefully DLWM gets a good outcome.

Dunno if the OP is worried about attacks in the bathroom or not. I wouldn’t imagine it would be a big issue in Babar. Possibly so in a lot of other places I could think of though.

Whatever, it ain’t my argument.

JJ, I’m still not convinced there’s a real connection, unless said ‘tranny’ is fearful of getting beaten up in the bathroom, or something.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

JJ – I don’t think there is necessarily an issue automatically connecting violent bigots with transgender issues like this, to me they are separate.

But violent bigots don’t generally see much a difference between ‘poofs’ and ‘trannies’. Of course it is connected – just because we know the difference doesn’t mean that ignorant bigots (I’m aware this is a tautology) will draw the same fine distinction.

chewy14 said :

jessieduck said :

How much interaction do you lot have in the bathroom? I go in, do my biz, get out, wash hands, leave- no interactions with anyone. No chatting, no sussing out if someone is transgender or whatever. I wouldn’t look twice at who is in there with me so maybe that is why I don’t care as much?

Jessieduck,
then why do women have to go to the toilet in pairs?
We know you are talking about us men folk while you are in there.

Oh no, not I- I refuse to talk to anyone while I am peeing. Not even at home. Can’t do it.

Well said Jim Jones.

Note I also said ‘violent homophobes’ indicating that I was discussing homophobes who are violent.

That being said, I think that ‘people who disagree with the concept of same sex relationships’ are ignorant fools. If that’s being discriminatory, well, f-k mate, what the hell are those people doing in the first place?

JJ – I don’t think there is necessarily an issue automatically connecting violent bigots with transgender issues like this, to me they are separate.

I pulled DMD up for making the assumption that these ‘bigots’ are violent and ignorant (well, probably ignorant).

To my mind, automatically connecting the two and then making a value judgement is sloppy thinking.

jessieduck said :

How much interaction do you lot have in the bathroom? I go in, do my biz, get out, wash hands, leave- no interactions with anyone. No chatting, no sussing out if someone is transgender or whatever. I wouldn’t look twice at who is in there with me so maybe that is why I don’t care as much?

Jessieduck,
then why do women have to go to the toilet in pairs?
We know you are talking about us men folk while you are in there.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

Why? My point was simply that there are people who disagree with the concept of same sex relationships, but that DMD implied that all such people were violent and ignorant. I disagree with that.

No he didn’t. He stated that the issue of homophobic attacks was germaine to the discussion, and then you went off on some tangent about “So all people who dislike the concept of same sex relationships are violent and ignorant, eh.”

It’s obvious that not all people who ‘dislike the concept of same sex relationships’ are violent (I find that the term ‘bigot’ is a lot quicker to use than this clumsy description).

It would be like me talking about green birds and you getting all pissy because not all birds are green.

How much interaction do you lot have in the bathroom? I go in, do my biz, get out, wash hands, leave- no interactions with anyone. No chatting, no sussing out if someone is transgender or whatever. I wouldn’t look twice at who is in there with me so maybe that is why I don’t care as much?

Mr Evil said :

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

Unisex toilets.

You know it makes sense.

Great idea; until someone happens to leave the toilet seat up??????

remove the seat and just use the old public toilet last resort – the hover.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

Unisex toilets.

You know it makes sense.

Great idea; until someone happens to leave the toilet seat up??????

Why? My point was simply that there are people who disagree with the concept of same sex relationships, but that DMD implied that all such people were violent and ignorant. I disagree with that.

I’m not suggesting that violence or ignorance are good or acceptable.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

You were trying to catch me out with a ridiculous accusation, but you just made yourself sound stupid. Do you really think there is a culture of political correctness amongst violent, ignorant homophobes? These are people who bash people for display traditionally feminine characteristics…

Again with the uneducated judgements… So all people who dislike the concept of same sex relationships are violent and ignorant, eh.

That’s pretty poor thinking, even for a schoolkid like you.

As an impartial observer, I’ve gotta say: VY, you really are making yourself look like a complete ass at the moment.

You were trying to catch me out with a ridiculous accusation, but you just made yourself sound stupid. Do you really think there is a culture of political correctness amongst violent, ignorant homophobes? These are people who bash people for display traditionally feminine characteristics…

Again with the uneducated judgements… So all people who dislike the concept of same sex relationships are violent and ignorant, eh.

That’s pretty poor thinking, even for a schoolkid like you.

I am not going to bang on about my genetic disorder, but there are many people in canberra with this condition, and, for the most part, they appear to be feminine, not masculine in appearance.

Many become transgender reassigned as they are uncomfortable being a man with little or no body hair, larger than a normal male in the breast department, and other physical attributes usually associated with being female. the mental aspect has a big part to play as well.

I have HRT, so don’t exhibit many of these attributes. I am, however, only just starting to show signs of aging, and the hair loss I am experiencing is due to the hormones. My friends who have the condition and have reassigned may look female, but I still count them as my mates, regardless of their appearance. transexuals are, after all, still human beings.

kobez_outlaw said :

I can say in confidence that my girlfriend, or her sister, would not feel comfortable going to the toilet with a man who thinks he is a woman in there.

I would not be concerned about a transgender person in the toilets. There are separate cubicles FFS, its not like we are checking each other out at the urinal. I am sure blokes would have more of an issue if she was using the mens and I can understand she wouldn’t feel comfortable in that scenario.

DarkLadyWolfMother said :

Sorry, jessieduck, I missed your reply. I’d agree with you there. However, I wonder how many people would be ‘comfortable’ with them using the women’s toilets if their primary sex characteristics included the dangly bits; or the men’s toilets if they had breasts?

I think most men would feel rather uncomfortable if they were confronted by a transgender chap beside them at the trough.

It puts you in a rather awkward position DLWM. The ladies is probably the best option and where you’re less likely to stick out (pardon the pun), but I could see why some women would feel a bit uncomforatble if it were obvious that there was a man in the loo beside them.

Some transgenders are very convincing and you’d never be able to tell they actually are, but some are rather tragic.

Oh I agree about how little is seen, jessieduck. I was just bringing the comfort thing back to what’s been said here. It appears comfort isn’t always about what’s seen, but what people believe exists.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

Terrorist Nazi Homosexual at your service.

You make me laugh. Especially when you get caught.

You were trying to catch me out with a ridiculous accusation, but you just made yourself sound stupid. Do you really think there is a culture of political correctness amongst violent, ignorant homophobes? These are people who bash people for display traditionally feminine characteristics…

DLWM, you should, in the 21st Century, be allowed to make choices about your own self and not be persecuted or excluded based on that. I don’t see how your choices impact on others in society. Plus, who the hell checks? Has anyone spared a thought for women who suffer from hormonal disorders and grow extra hair? You should look at possibilities with Anti-Discrimination legislation. Someone should take a stand in this matter.

The only standard there should be in a toilet is for people to flush and not leave sh-t all over the seats. Those people can die. Die horribly.

Gender really is a brain thing as much as it is about the genitals isn’t it.

As for your question DLWM, we don’t see any dangly bits in a ladies loo once the cubicle doors are closed and as for boobs in the men’s toilet… some men have bigger chests then me and it’s not as if you have to lift up your shirt to pee (well not that high anyways)

This is quite the thought provoking topic and I wish it was easier for people like you to be confident in your own choices without people like the owner of Babars questioning you. It’s about where you feel comfortable and it’s a shame she felt the need to stop you. My moral compass says she is wrong and you should be able to live your life as you choose because it’s not hurting anyone.

Breasts are welcome anywhere.

Sorry, jessieduck, I missed your reply. I’d agree with you there. However, I wonder how many people would be ‘comfortable’ with them using the women’s toilets if their primary sex characteristics included the dangly bits; or the men’s toilets if they had breasts?

VY, yes, that is binary. However gender doesn’t actually work that way. There are many people ‘caught in the middle’ that have to make a choice one way or the other. This binary way of thinking causes them issues. Obviously it’s quite deeply rooted in our society so I’m not expecting that to change. However while we (people in general) may be ‘forced’ to stand in one camp or the other, it would be nice if people realised that rarely is anything just ‘one or the other’.

if women want to use the men’s toilet, good luck to them. I personally have no interest in visiting a women’s loo. I can use a tree if all other avenues are exhausted…

what would men think if a lady decided to wear shirt and jeans and come into the mens toilets?

I’m guessing you haven’t been to a big music festival.

ant said :

kobez_outlaw said :

If you are noy legally a woman then why should you be allowed into the womens toilet? That means that any perve could put on some make up, a dress and a wig and ceck out all the chicks in the toilets.

Mate, nothing goes on in the chicks toilets, seriously. Everyone goes into a cubicle and locks the door. They don’t prance around naked in there, it’s not a US school locker room or something.

At the ANU, in Burton & Garran and Toad, the bathrooms were unisex, and this was in the 80s! Dunnies AND showers. Which were all in cubicles. Although the ones in toad were a bit iffey, just a frosted glass panel. Didn’t like those so much.

regardless of the goings on in the female toilets, I wouldn’t want my 4yo daughter thinking that it was ok for any man to be in the toilet at the same time as her. She wouldn’t, however, recognise a transgender woman as a man. Her mother would, and it would be a bit funny for her, but not enough to complain…

It’s been interesting to see both points of view. It’s also been interesting to see how ‘binary’ the world is to many people.

I’m not trying to be rude here, but most places offers ‘male’ and ‘female’ bathrooms. Sounds pretty binary to me.

kobez_outlaw said :

If you are noy legally a woman then why should you be allowed into the womens toilet? That means that any perve could put on some make up, a dress and a wig and ceck out all the chicks in the toilets.

Mate, nothing goes on in the chicks toilets, seriously. Everyone goes into a cubicle and locks the door. They don’t prance around naked in there, it’s not a US school locker room or something.

At the ANU, in Burton & Garran and Toad, the bathrooms were unisex, and this was in the 80s! Dunnies AND showers. Which were all in cubicles. Although the ones in toad were a bit iffey, just a frosted glass panel. Didn’t like those so much.

Clown Killer said :

Is there actually a law about this? I mean can anyone point out a statute or regulation that says if I stick a picture of a man or a woman on a toilet door, that members of the opposite gender are legally prohibited from entering? I’d actuially be surprised if there was.

what cracks me up is that in my office, there are 2 toilets, a trough and a sit down. the former manager from a few years ago had a really bad sense of humor. Both toilets have a picture of a man on them. The female staff aren’t really worried about the signs….

DLWM I am quite happy for you to use the ladies loo. As for intersex- I would say the sex they choose to live their life as or, if they don’t have a preference, whatever they feel most comfortable with.

Cleaners always tell me that men’s toilets are generally cleaner then ladies so I guess if I was an intersex that didn’t have a preferred “identity-sex” then I would go to the mens… plus the queues are shorter.

It’s been interesting to see both points of view. It’s also been interesting to see how ‘binary’ the world is to many people.

More for interests sake, than trying to get a definitive answer, I wonder which toilets people believe an intersexed person should use?

Terrorist Nazi Homosexual at your service.

You make me laugh. Especially when you get caught.

…or give them an eyeful by squirting at the urinal…

Here’s a tip for inexperienced punters – never bet a girl that you can pee higher up a wall than she can … I have learnt this the hard way!

OT but in the same vein, my daughter is quite profficient at the ‘stand up pee’ which is convenient for road trips etc when nature calls as she just ducks behind a tree like the boys … probably not a skill she’d pick up at finishing school but a useful skill nonetheless.

Pandy said :

“or give them an eyeful by squirting at the urinal (I’ve seen this happen several times too)”

Geezus I have led a sheltered life.

Me too! I assumed that only happened in the movies ala The Full Monty- had no idea anyone would actually do it!!

I just go in the cubicle, and I do not ever look at the men’s bits while I walk past the urinal.

“or give them an eyeful by squirting at the urinal (I’ve seen this happen several times too)”

Geezus I have led a sheltered life.

If the guys were footy players, I dont think the situation would have ended nicely.

Isn’t it obvious?

The staff don’t have a problem – as shown from their previous acceptance. They must be getting complaints from female customers, which puts them in a difficult situation.

You’ve had your whole life to learn to cope with the fact that your sexual identity doesn’t neatly fit the pigeon holes created by society. The ladies you walk in on have had only a few seconds.

This isn’t going to be solved instantly with a legal “solution”.

Women using men’s toilets at major function is not uncommon. I used to work in Security and I lost count of the times when I was asked at such events t5o get women out of the men’s toilets. They were there because the men’s toilets are generally less busy than the women’s. Personally i have no problems with women using mes loo’s. That said, Women if you must use the men’s, go into ht cubicle. There’s no need to offend the older blokes or give them an eyeful by squirting at the urinal (I’ve seen this happen several times too).

This is like Minque and the Sikhs all over again! DarkLadyWolfMother has a pretty good case for a discrimination claim, should she be up for the battle.

I am a woman and really don’t care too much who shares the facilities as long as they stay out of my cubicle. Anyone who thinks the risk of someone perving on women in the girls toilets is a reasonable excuse for this sort of discrimination, obviously needs to spend more time at any mixed bathing facility – the views are probably better than those in toilet. Unlike men’s facilities, women’s toilets don’t have public urination; so the shape of genitalia isn’t, or shouldn’t be, an issue.

The various GILBT Amendment and sexuality discrimination legislation was intended to do away with the sort of nonsense DarkLadyWolfMother has had to experience.

Babar’s is off the list. I’ll make my own ricotta pancakes.

and what about long hair/short hair? As a male long hair what door do I pick?

You mean a woman can just walk into the male urinal and stare at my cock? Clown.

Is there actually a law about this? I mean can anyone point out a statute or regulation that says if I stick a picture of a man or a woman on a toilet door, that members of the opposite gender are legally prohibited from entering? I’d actuially be surprised if there was.

If you are noy legally a woman then why should you be allowed into the womens toilet? That means that any perve could put on some make up, a dress and a wig and ceck out all the chicks in the toilets. As the manager, she has a right to make rules and regulations of Babar’s as long as its withing the law. She didn’t break the law, therefore I congratulate her. She as a woman can obviously stand up for what other women may think or feel about this issue. I can say in confidence that my girlfriend, or her sister, would not feel comfortable going to the toilet with a man who thinks he is a woman in there.

Que?

It annoys me when people get all offended on someone else’s behalf. All the women commenters so far seem quite happy to have toilets reserved for women, and those identifying as women.

Those who are getting worried that we might not like it should relax and look after their own interests. And that includes the Barbars manager.

It reminds me of the Bill Hensen fuss. Noone would own up to looking at his pictures and then wanting to molest kids. But loads of people thought they should be banned because just by looking at the pictures, they could somehow tell that those pictures would make other people go out and molest kids.

i wouldnt want to pee in the male toilets because they STINK!

that would be reason enough!

I dont think i would be shocked to see a transgenered in the female toilet. its not like they are in there for kicks, they’re doing exactly what i am doing.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

Unisex toilets.

You know it makes sense.

Men have no problem with this (all the posters suggesting it so far I believe are blokes)but I don’t want my slacks/skirt dropping into your dribble – unfortunately not all men are particuarly adept at hitting the target and only their shoes get grubby when doing #1’s.

DLWM – good on you for standing up for your rights, I hope you let them know of the issue as the manager should take a course in polite/politically correct behaviour and attitudes at work no matter what her personal views are.

someoneincanb said :

Good point dvaey.

DLWM says “she” is *scared* to use the male toilets. I’m sure plenty of females would be scared to find a male in the female toilets.

She’s not male, for all intents and purposes.

She live’s her life as a woman and that’s that

Game Over

Let it ride, let the woman live ffs

Sexed toilets are another example of our Anglo sexual obsession/repression, a lot of the world manages quite well with unisex toilets – like we have at home!

She doesn’t “just wear a dress” FFS (this is going to take awhile, isn’t it?)

I must run just now as I need to eat some nice things, very soon.

Might get back later, depends on how good the food/night is

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

And VY, you mean to tell me that someone who would bash a man for their sexual preference would say, ‘Oh, that’s fine. It’s none of my business anyway.’ in regards to a man who has chosen to change their gender?

Sounds like a major discrepancy in their (bad) character. How common is this?

Are YOU a violent hater of homosexuals? You seem to know an awful lot about these people.

Oh I must be, then. I know that Al Qaeda didn’t like Saddam as well as the US, so I must be a terrorist. I also know that the Nazi’s persecuted Gypsies and certain Catholics as well as Jewish people, so I must be a Nazi. I know that Homosexual males are not nessercarily flamboyant and that homosexual females aren’t necessarily butch, so I must be homosexual.

Terrorist Nazi Homosexual at your service.

Do you have any other ridiculous things you’d like me to say tonight?

And VY, you mean to tell me that someone who would bash a man for their sexual preference would say, ‘Oh, that’s fine. It’s none of my business anyway.’ in regards to a man who has chosen to change their gender?

Sounds like a major discrepancy in their (bad) character. How common is this?

Are YOU a violent hater of homosexuals? You seem to know an awful lot about these people.

Rule #1 don’t go to Babars, regardless of location.

That usually works for me.

Good point dvaey.

DLWM says “she” is *scared* to use the male toilets. I’m sure plenty of females would be scared to find a male in the female toilets.

So, does this mean if a male wanted to get into a public female toilet without being queried, he should just be able to put on a dress and walk on in? Or to put it the other way, what would men think if a lady decided to wear shirt and jeans and come into the mens toilets?

Society and humanity as a whole is based on male/female roles. You cant simply force someone to accept that because you wear a dress, you should be allowed into the womens toilets. How would this be any different to a man dressing as a female, to get into a womens only gym? Would you also complain if you were ejected from a womens only gym?

Ah, pfff.

And VY, you mean to tell me that someone who would bash a man for their sexual preference would say, ‘Oh, that’s fine. It’s none of my business anyway.’ in regards to a man who has chosen to change their gender?

Sounds like a major discrepancy in their (bad) character. How common is this?

🙂

It don’t mean dick to me.

😉

Dammit VYV8!

I was planning on not making any “taking-the-piss” jokes 😉 or mentioning how “ballsy” I thought DLWM was 😉

But you started it 🙂

Sounds a bit judgemental to me. People have a variety of opinions and hold them for all sorts of reasons.

Vy, I doubt you’ll find violent homophobes making a distinction between a genetic male who wears a skirt and one who chooses to have sexual relations with men. Whilst there is a difference, it really doesn’t count for much in that context.

Tee hee hee… genitals…

I’m going to play the devils advocate here, I love going to babar’s, and just because they did wrong by someone (who I don’t actually know) does not change my opinion of the place.

If you choose to start dressing as a women, and yet still be genetically a man, (and I know for some people, they don’t see it as a choice) then you have to expect some elements of society to react in a way which you may not like. It’s not really society’s fault as we are told from a very young age than only women wear skirts, men do not, so this reaction from someone is not a surprising one in the slightest.

On that note, the idea of separating women and men in some circumstances, when it come to entering a room, with private stalls to do your business does seem weird. It’s not like you see each others genitals (which lets face it, even if you did, most people have seen what the other sex’s genitals are like anyway)

In any case, my first point still stands

Used to go there regularly for coffee/snacks.

No more.

Clown Killer said :

I’ve never been to Barbar in woden, but this would seem to be a good enough reason to write it off completely. I have no idea why some business behave so stupidly.

I with you too Clown Killer.

Yeah ant, that place is a deadset $hithole. Take a gas-mask with you if you’re ever forced to eat in the outdoor area.

Wasn’t there frequent mention of this Barbar place a while back, in one of those “crap places to avoid” restaurant threads?

Maybe the whole receivership thing has just made the manager really grouchy? What an arse. Never been there, won’t be there now.

I’ve never been to Barbar in woden, but this would seem to be a good enough reason to write it off completely. I have no idea why some business behave so stupidly.

As the Blues Brothers would say, Sometimes its hard to be a woman…

if the sign on the door has a little pic of a person in a dress, and you are wearing a dress….

I’m not transitioning anything but I reserve the right to duck into a men’s loo if there is a queue at the ladies and I can’t wait*. If an owner ever questioned me I would laugh at them- FFS- it’s a TOILET, not a birth-right.

Just another reason not to go to Barbars.

*I have places to be and a full bladder.

I think a lot of people think that people who change sex are also associated with homosexuals, even if they’re not.

Also, considering that a large majority of homophobic attacks come from males, I think it’s a smart idea for the transgenders in our community to use toilets for their chosen sex.

How does fear of homosexual people relate to transgender issues?

Probably the troughs thing. I imagine a unisex toilet without troughs would result in a lot of us leaving the seat up or pissing on the seat.

It’s funny how “which dunny” is the first thing people seem to think about when faced with people changing gender. We had a male colleague, years ago, who went on long service leave and returned as a woman… completely different person I might add.

while those of us who’d known him were still dealing with the shock of it (it is, after all, like a death), others were going all giggly and coy about which toilets she’d use. I still can’t work out the great mystique with women’s toilets vs mens. There’s no troughs, that’s about it.

Why do we even have separate toilets anyway? The troughs thing, I imagine.

BerraBoy68 said :

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

Unisex toilets.

You know it makes sense.

Actually it does VY. Everybody toes to the toilet. Who cares if we share a room? I don’t.

Actually, I’d prefer that restaurants have separate toilets for males and females, considering what’s on some menus around town. That goes especially for fast food restaurants!

It’s stupid. What exactly is the problem with having someone who acts, dresses and is in every way bar genitalia – which, as far as I know anyway, is not able to be seen by others in a public toilet – in a toilet for the gender they identify with? Do they have people standing at the door checking up skirts?

Also, considering that a large majority of homophobic attacks come from males, I think it’s a smart idea for the transgenders in our community to use toilets for their chosen sex.

‘goes’, not ‘toes’. I don’t want my toes anywhere near a toilet.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

Unisex toilets.

You know it makes sense.

Actually it does VY. Everybody toes to the toilet. Who cares if we share a room? I don’t.

Unisex toilets.

You know it makes sense.

But you can see the issue with this? You are anatomically a man, and some people view this as meaning you are a man, and should use the male amenities.

I find it a little close minded that you would like that having a male in the female toilets is a problem /troll

Davo111 said :

Use the disabled toilets = no arguments

If I was forced to use the disabled toilets due to managements incredibly ppor understanding of an issue such as this, I’d feel even more discriminated against. DLWM isn’t disabled and should not be forced to use this toilet. In fact, given what I’m guessing she’s already had to go through in life I’d say she’s incredibly abled and empowered.

Label the doors ‘squirters’ and ‘dribblers’ perhaps?

If you’ve had a big meal and need to lay a railroad sleeper, I suspect just making it would be enough.

Agree with Davo. The disabled is the preferred option for many parents these days too, with lots of public toilets signed to prevent children older than 6 years using the facilities for the opposite gender. I recall reading somewhere that an Australian university had changed the signs on the facility doors to read something along the lines of “people who identify with the female gender” to avoid discriminating. Maybe it comes down to whether you pee standing or sitting?

Use the disabled toilets = no arguments

hk0reduck said :

Oh, except for never giving Barbar my money again 🙂

Oh no, now look what’ve you done!
http://www.search.asic.gov.au/cgi-bin/gns030c?acn=105_526_636&juris=9&hdtext=ACN&srchsrc=1

i must now get the ricotta hotcakes recipe before they disappear forever.

I just don’t go there because they serve crap champagne. I’ll be doubly sure to stay away now.

DarkLadyWolfMother said :

As for using the Men’s toilets: I don’t feel safe in most of them.

I’m sure some females may not feel safe having a man in their toilets.

Oh, except for never giving Barbar my money again 🙂

Oh no, now look what’ve you done!
http://www.search.asic.gov.au/cgi-bin/gns030c?acn=105_526_636&juris=9&hdtext=ACN&srchsrc=1

The thought process of the manager/owner is a priceless study of myopia; exactly what air of casual indifference does she imagine will prevail in the mens when she forces a male-female transgender to join them.

I mean, there I am standing at a urinal when out of the corner of my eye a woman comes in and, faced with occupied cubicles, reluctantly stands next to me. I know that I, for one, won’t be able to pee.

No, for the sake of discretion and dignity to all involved, let the poor lady use the ladies and have a cubicle.

That’s quite appalling from such a ‘reputable’ place in this town.

It also highlights some of the legislative changes needed on TS issues to ensure that these kinds of things don’t continue to happen.
With this in mind, you could bring it to the attention of the ACT Human Rights and Discrimination Commissioner. While it probably won’t lead to much in relation to the cafe, it could lead to other changes legislatively in the longer term.

DarkLadyWolfMother said :

Oh, except for never giving Barbar my money again 🙂

But…but…the ricotta hotcakes are so yummy!!!

I’m not legally female, as our country requires that you have the operation before you can change your gender on your Birth Certificate. Which is a hassle for those of us that can’t have the operation easily because of health issues. I have changed my name, but that doesn’t mean anything legally except I now have a ‘female sounding’ name.

I’m always dressed female. Though what that means is up for debate since women wear all kinds of ‘male’ clothing these days.

As for using the Men’s toilets: I don’t feel safe in most of them.

However since this is the first time I’ve had issues over this, I’m not about to change what I do. Oh, except for never giving Barbar my money again 🙂

Just take a leak at the table.

Small minded crap like this is disappointing to hear. I imagine transgender people have enough to deal with without worrying about other peoples ablutions. Seriously, what is the big deal?

I have to wonder at the thought process going through that opersons mind. “Excuse me, I know you look like a female but I don’t believe you!” WTF!

Businesses like this deserve to have people vote with their feet… and money.

Argh – stupid post instead of preview. I meant to add:

I’m not sure if the ACT has similar anti-discrimination arrangements to NSW, but the ‘recognised’ distinction may be legally important:

You also have the legal right not to be harassed at work because you are transgender…(this) includes making sure you’re not harassed for using the toilets or change rooms of your preferred gender…In the same way as at work, if you are a recognised transgender person you must generally be treated as your preferred gender. For example, you must be allowed to use the toilets or change rooms provided for public use (for example, those in parks, shops or restaurants) of your preferred gender…If you are not a recognised transgender person the legal situation is not quite so clear, but in general, in most cases, you should be able to use the toilets of your preferred gender (…).

Are you recognised? That is, are you “a person the record of whose sex is altered under the Births, Deaths and Marriages Registration Act 1997, part 4 or the corresponding provisions of a law of a State or another Territory”?

Good luck DLWM.

How could she have told you to use the men’s toilet when you were dressed as women (presumably)?

Silly, silly ignorant person. Have you let the Canberra Times know?

Discrimination…. How so. She is still male…i mean he is.

It is discrimination. Write the letter and more importatnly, let people in the community know. Shine a light, shame the devil.

Soooooo……. i would say use the male toilets until you fully cross over i guess.