Is it legal for a truck with Tank Water on the side to fill up from the mains water supply

monomania said :

“Water has been subsidized for years!…. A gardener in Canberra has as much right to the water as an irrigator downstream growing fodder for race horses..”

I disagree. Most irrigation is not used growing ‘fodder for race horses’, as you know. The cheap water the irrigators get also underwrites the cheap and reliable food we all eat in the cities. It’s not the fault of irrigators that the Murray Darling is dying. It’s not even the fault of the current ‘drought’. When Sturt ‘discovered’ the Darling in 1829, he found the water too salty to drink.

All the dams, irrigation infrastructure and even our ideas about water are all predicated on a series of wetter-than-usual decades after WW2. The rainfall we have seen in the last ten years is more a return to ‘normal’ after an unusually wet period. (see http://www.ipa.org.au/publications/883/the-macquarie-marshes-an-ecological-history/pg/19 pge. 10)

monomania said :

“People in the cities are being made feel guilty about their water use for no good reason because governments have stuffed up in the past.”

Very true. The amount of water a city like Canberra uses on gardens etc. is minuscule compared to agriculture. But the amount of water used to supply the lifestyle we lead in the city is enormous.

The irrigators will have to become more efficient, sure. And, like us, they mostly are. But governments are going to have to shoulder the responsibility for supplying people with a reasonable amount of water, not trying to shift the blame onto others.

Our government is quite happy to take developer’s money in building new suburbs. We should expect some of that money to be spent on supplying the extra water those suburbs need.

.

Post #36, hear hear. Local govco is not only screwing us on providing us water, but they’ve managed to convince many of us that it’s up to US to fix the problem. Who the hell are they representing? Everyone knows a city will require more water as it grows – where the hell is the new infrastructure.

I’m not against sensible water savings, and in fact think sensible and light restrictions should be business-as-usual, but such strategies will only take us so far.

When and where is the new infrastructure, larger catchment or strategy to pipe water in from other places?

Australia needs a new big project to pull us together. How about damming the Ord river and piping it to other states?

Actually there isn’t even an apostrophe. The spittle of commenters, not commenters’ spittle.

I have to have counterdisagree. If used as an adjective the singular version would be used commenter spittle. Similarly we say bull poop not bulls poop.

uncle sam said :

Its not a mains water supply for a start, the hydrant is supplied by actew, they also bill the company on its water usage. As far as I am aware water usage is permitted for a government contract.

What do you mean it is not mains water? Sorry to say it is, it isn’t like there are two sets of pipes under the street, one for homes and one for fires. But yes as many have pointed out the pipe has a meter in it so they are charged.

theres a meter on the hydrant itself which is how they bill the contractors.

Its not a mains water supply for a start, the hydrant is supplied by actew, they also bill the company on its water usage. As far as I am aware water usage is permitted for a government contract.

monomania, hear hear. I just wish the pollies would base their decisions on facts, not ideologies!

ChrisinTurner said :

Water has been subsidised for years! It is about time we paid the proper price.

It is hard to see why each person in Canberra is still using over 300 litres of water per day.

In Brisbane the water trucks have to fill using their own sealed metered spike.

What is the proper price? It all depends how you price the environmental cost of extra storage and the water abstracted from the river system. A gardener in Canberra has as much right to the water as an irrigator downstream growing fodder for race horses. In Canberra, low water users are being subsidised by those of us who are maintaining the heritage values of the garden city. We need a higher connection charge, no tax and a single volumetric price. If water is scarce add a levy which can be removed when more water is available. Government is elected to do what its citizens want. If we want 300L per day, build enough storage to make this possible when less water is available. In non drought times we take a piddling amount compared to irrigators along the Murrumbidgee. People in the cities are being made feel guilty about their water use for no good reason because governments have stuffed up in the past.

Gotta love Excuses

yeah they probably blame the economic crisis for making water too expensive for the housing industry and that’s why they have to resort to stealing it:}

#33 – use of potable water to stray around building sites and dirt carparks.

This makes me so cranky.
We haven’t been able to wash windows for 2 years, and gardening has become really difficult, yet they can spray around gallons of water as they please.

I think Stanhope has sold his soul to the building industry.

Water has been subsidised for years! It is about time we paid the proper price.

It is hard to see why each person in Canberra is still using over 300 litres of water per day.

In Brisbane the water trucks have to fill using their own sealed metered spike.

10% of Canberra water use is unmetered and is provided free. The cost of treating an extra KL of water to potable standard is a fraction of a cent/KL as opposed to the $3.70/KL top price this year. Water in this drought is relatively scarce but the biggest scarcity about water in Canberra since Stanhope was crowned has been a scarcity of honesty and common sense. There have been two dryer 5 year periods on record. Why didn’t we have enough storage to meet demand? Why excessive water releases until 07 when our use was restricted? Why should we pay excess charges when we reach 50KL in summer even though some will have only used 150KL, half what it used to be? Because the Government has targets, regardless of what we want, to reduce water use from mains by 25%. If water is so scarce why are those who are prepared to pay more for it able to buy an ‘abstraction licence’ called a rainwater tank and use as much as they say they are able to collect which in drier times might be more than the tank collects. They even take some of our money to do so. Those of you who want to be policemen should join the force.

Lenient said :

And in the true tradition of RA:

commenters’ not commenter’s as more than one commenter provides spittle in this fine establishment.

Actually there isn’t even an apostrophe. The spittle of commenters, not commenters’ spittle.

Biggest risk is the lack of approved backflow devices where treated water from the truck could flow back into the mains.

I actually brought up a similar issue about a year ago and the story was run in the Northside Chronicle (here is the similar photo that I took): http://img379.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3010071644bl5.jpg

In that particular instance, potable water was being used to settle the dust at the Belconnen super school building site in Holt. This was despite the fact that the Molonglo water treatment plant was just down the road where treated water could be sourced instead.

The response from the government and bureaucracy was that there is no legislative requirement to compel the use of recycled water on building sites (and I understand that this still remains the case) and the usual issues that the treated water presents a range of health issues if sprayed around was trotted out. (This is despite the fact that ACTEW would like to have us believe that with further treatment this same water, that has been flushed down our toilets, and pumped back in the Molonglo river for other communities to drink downstream, will be fit to mix back in with the Canberra drinking water supply).

I’ll let you make your own conclusions.

***And in the true tradition of RA: commenters’ not commenter’s as more than one commenter provides spittle in this fine establishment.***

Debatable 🙂

However, It’s Friday, there’s cheers to be had, drinks to be drunk, cars to be crashed, legends to be made – morphing -> into criminals for RA regulars to condemn…

all is good, well consistent at least 🙂

Lenient said :

Actually, this is the tanker that is used to fill up the mains, just how do you think we get our water?

Heh. I’ll pay that one!

Deano said :

What the real scandal in this photo is is that the truck is currently being used on road patrol, that is watering trees on the side of the road so they don’t die. Why isn’t he using recycled water from Molonglo Treatment Works – well because normally the truck is used for carting drinking water to replenish tanks for people. Because it is certified for carting drinking water, it can’t be used for recycled water and therefore trees are being water with drinking water instead of recycled waste water.

Where do you think the water coming from the hydrant is coming from? The Molonglo Treatment Works, it’s all the same water. Anyway I believe you companies can buy licences to use potable water for certain uses, since you’ve queried it actewagl should be able to sort it out. I doubt he was doing anything wrong.

And in the true tradition of RA:

commenters’ not commenter’s as more than one commenter provides spittle in this fine establishment.

***Actually, this is the tanker that is used to fill up the mains, just how do you think we get our water?***

I thought the mains were filled with the spittle of commenter’s at RA, frothing with righteous indignation…

As it should be 🙂

Actually, this is the tanker that is used to fill up the mains, just how do you think we get our water?

Metered standpipe: — have a look at ACTEWAGL’s info at #17. For only $430 a year plus a couple of dollars a kilolitre, you too can buy clean fresh water and put it in people’s tanks. Or, you could buy equally-clean bottled water at about a dollar a litre, and pour that into a tank.

What the real scandal in this photo is is that the truck is currently being used on road patrol, that is watering trees on the side of the road so they don’t die. Why isn’t he using recycled water from Molonglo Treatment Works – well because normally the truck is used for carting drinking water to replenish tanks for people. Because it is certified for carting drinking water, it can’t be used for recycled water and therefore trees are being water with drinking water instead of recycled waste water.

From memory, the standpipes have meters in them and the operators are required to pay Actew based on metered usage.

There are in fact metered standpipes for businesses like this to use, and then pay for the water they use, and that nice yellow one looks like it might be such a standpipe.

I have heard in the past of people having a spare “un-metered” standpipe, the use of which would be water theft, however I very much doubt that one would be used quite so blatantly.

Ha! Do two new heads spring up when you cut one off?

#21

Mythical?

I see you haven’t met my mother-inlaw yet 🙂

I always thought the hydrant was a mythical creature with a serpent body and many heads.

From memory, the standpipes have meters in them and the operators are required to pay Actew based on metered usage.

If it is permitted (how hard would it be to paint a stand pipe official yellow?) i still want to know how it can be effectively priced and policed without a meter.

***Clean Fresh Tank Water***

A business/service that provides for the refilling of empty water tanks.

It’s clean, it’s fresh and it goes into tanks

it’s not that hard people

Frankly given the choice between a bloke trying to make a living taking commonly owned water, and, say, ‘ecologist’ Frank Fenner selfishly taking water from our water-table to soak his acre-plus garden lawn thanks to a garden pump (while crying out about the state of the environment), I’d rather see Fenner featured for a bit of sanctimony!

i registered my concerns to the Water Conservation Office and apparently the fact he was using a yellow stand pipe means he is probably permitted. The Water Conservation Office will investigate…

I blanked out the details out of courtesy in case this person was authorised.

I found the place to register my concern

In case anyone else wants do bob-in someone for breaking the water restrictions they can do so here:
http://www.actew.com.au/SaveWaterForLife/WaterRestrictions/breaking_restirictions_and_fines.aspx

RuffnReady said :

Has someone brought this to the attention of the relevant authorities yet?

There is nothing in the photograph to identify the business that is doing the extraction.

How can anyone other than eggman advise ACTEWAGL who was extracting the water in the first place?

Eggman, have you reported this to ACTEW?

Well one thing for sure – the owner has his fluros on so we will not miss him carrying out his business.
Safety First!

Has someone brought this to the attention of the relevant authorities yet?

ACTEW AGL issue licences to businesses for water extraction. They will know whether they have issued a licence to that business.

As they are advertising that they carry tank water, I would expect that they are delivering to rural lessees that are a bit short of a drop or two.

Mr Evil – if he were a contractor “employed by the ACT Govt to water public trees” he wouldn’t be advertising himself as providing “clean fresh tank water”. The presence of a sign claiming to be a road patrol proves nothing.

From memory, Northside horticulture is still done in-house by TAMS, southside is contracted out.

This has to be water theft – report it to ACTEW! If it were legit, how would ACTEW be metering the water from a fire hydrant? If it’s a commercial arrangement how would the wholesaler be billing the retailer?

I was also under the impression that access to fire hydrants was restricted to emergency services.

I assume that he is one of the contractors employed by the ACT Govt to water public trees, so yes, he probably does have the authority to take water from hydrants.

I figure there must be some arrangement between the tank trucks and the owner of the water. The local NSW water-bringers fill up at the hydrant on Oaks Estate Rd, just off Pialligo Ave, sometimes there’s several of them there, waiting to fill up. They sell water to the various people surrounding the ACT and QBN to the east, to put in their tanks.

haha @ WMC.

Should have not wasted your time taking a photo/posting to riotact and just asked the operator then and there.

It depends, if he is then onselling it to folks so they can top up their tanks to keep the hydrangeas green over the long hot summer it is illegal and he can be charged with theft (as happened in Brisbane a while back during level 6 restrictions, water carriers were filling up from fire hydrants and seeling it to gardeners, council / state govt got a tad peeved after a local current affairs show caught them damp handed and had them charged).

If however he was filling up and then using the water on a building site to lay the dust he would probably get away with it.

Outrageous. That vehicle has wheels, not tracks, and doesn’t appear to be armed or armoured.

Beat me to it, sammy. 🙂

Well it’s water, and it’s now in a tank, so I guess it isn’t really a false claim.