Airport future.

Air Services Australia will launch a new service Webtrack within the next 2 weeks which allows you (after a delay of 20-40 minutes) see the exact flightpath a plane took in or out of the airport, designate your home (or other location) and see the distance and altitude from you, see the noise readings at the Jerra and new Hackett noise monitoring stations as the flight passes, and more. No military or VIP flights, but everything else will be in there for your viewing pleasure.

You’ll be surprised at how closely the majority of jet flights track on there northerly departures before turning over/north of our area.

And for the growing proportion of planes that use RNP GPS-based navigation, the individual flight tracks in the reports we get from ASA are almost indistinguishable.

“Interesting read, thanks for putting that up. I read the long blurb about the undesirability of non-airport-related development on airport land as being squarly directed at Canberra airport. There has been little airport-type development out there since Snow bought it… they made the runway longer, and, um?

When Snow first bought the airport, the stated intention was to develop the airport as a freight hub for the region, and also to develop it as a gateway for international traffic. The proposal was to bring in international flights, espeically when Sydney was shut for curfew, process them at Canberra and then load them on the VFT. Some kind of fast rail link was integral to many of these plans.

I actually think he coudl develop the international flights thing without a train. he could land the jumbos here, process them, and they could be flying on to their destinations in smaller planes. Many destinations don’t have curfews, and new flights could be created. For those heading to Sydney, there’d be a few hours wait. Although the train would have got round the congestion at Sydney problem better.

At some point though, the property development thing took over from the aviation thing, and we’re still reeling on the effects of that. A hitherto busy road is now a blocked-up mess. A bunch of big, grand buildings flanking that funny little airport terminal.”

You would have to think ant was a public servant! From this statement it is obvious he has no business acumen

I don’t know Terry Snow froma a bar of soap but in my mind the way he is developing the airport precinct is commercially very smart.

You need other revenue stream at an airport rather than just car parking and terminal fees. H ehas got that know with a business park

He has built the freight hub terminals – it is called Brand Depot. Have you look they are basically just big warehouse with very little internal framework – a classic land bank if I have ever seen one

They were going to spend $250m upgrading the airport terminals until a little thing called the global credit crunch got in the way

If international tourists want to fly to Melbourne or Adelaide or Perth then they just take a different connecting flight in Thailand or Singapore not fly to Canberra to change planes. No to make Canberra a 2nd Sydney airport they need a transport system

And that expansion of the flightpaths is what has happened to Hackett too.

We used to get only tiny planes (two seater types) and helicopers etc on the flightpath above us. But now they are using the flightpath above hackett for much larger planes, much more often, and we are really noticing the increase in noise.

I think many people have bought the airport’s line, and imagine there is one flightpath. There is not.

Potentially, every bit of airspace is a flightpath. Things like air traffic, wind direction and what the wind is doing, and local events all change where planes will fly. Anyone who flies a lot knows this; you seldom follow the same way in, or out.

Who has been in a “holding pattern” over sydney, and zig-zagged all over the place? Everywhere is a flight path.

If Canberra ever wants to be taken seriously as a Capital City, then they need a proper international airport. I can just imagine the look of the faces of visitors from overseas when they fly into our airport. They probably think they have flown into Bumblefcuk in the outback somewhere. We have customs staff who are capable of dealing with international visitors in Canberra, it makes sense on so many levels to direct flights here, especially with a VFT.

Or just don’t put residential near the airport and flightpaths in the first place.

That too. I have no sympathy for people who choose to buy near a flightpath. I am only interested in protecting the amenity of Canberra residents living everywhere else in the town. As a former rep of an electorate with a key regional airport, and thanks to old court decisions, exactly the same sorts of building under flightpath issues, Jerra was one of the first places crossed off my list of places to buy when we moved back to Canberra.

Deye your two sentences do not logically link. Don’t fall for the airport spin. That’s what Kate Lundy has done, and it seems to be what Albanese has done. The two issues are only a little related. The curfew though is about far more of Canberra.

A freight hub will negatively affect maybe 40% of all Canberra residents – far more than those near flightpaths. I am amazed that some people cannot conceive of this. Or perhaps you live in Weston or Dunlop?

Except that Canberra and the airport have been co-located since, well, for a long time.

While I agree that it should probably have been possible to leave corridors vacant of housing suitable for flight paths, that really hasn’t happened, and only looks like getting worse.

Gungahlin Al said :

The smart thing to do is to put a curfew in now. It says “Canberra is a quiet place, but the airport is a vital economic and social driver. Therefore the correct balance is to allow full development of the airport during normal trading hours, but the assure the residents a period of respite between 11pm and 6am.”

With a curfew in place early, industry knows exactly where the goalposts are, and will invest appropriately. Early = easy. Late = hard + unfair for residents and businesses.

Or just don’t put residential near the airport and flightpaths in the first place.
A 24 hr hub would be fine.

Can’t they just fly over Queanbeyan? 😛

The statement by Albanese in today’s CT displays a profound lack of long-term vision.

“I can’t see any need for a curfew at Canberra at this stage.”

What? So you wait until businesses have invested heavily in infrastructure based on a curfew-less airport, and wait until everyone starts complaining, and THEN think about putting one in??

That is just dumb and short-sighted.

Albanese needs to recognise that we are not a traffic and industry heavy town, and therefore have very low ambient noise levels. Even a single jet flight after 11pm is sleep disturbing – even out as far as Harrison. The airport is proposing something like 20 N70 jet movements per night in the wee hours. You’ll just get back to sleep, to be woken again.

All. Night. Long. Every. Night.

The smart thing to do is to put a curfew in now. It says “Canberra is a quiet place, but the airport is a vital economic and social driver. Therefore the correct balance is to allow full development of the airport during normal trading hours, but the assure the residents a period of respite between 11pm and 6am.”

With a curfew in place early, industry knows exactly where the goalposts are, and will invest appropriately. Early = easy. Late = hard + unfair for residents and businesses.

ant: The railway between Goulburn and Sydney needs more than just “upgrading” – the essential problem with it is that the route was designed and built in the steam age. The cost/benefit equations have shifted dramatically since that time, such that a completely new alignment is warranted (much like the way that the freeway deviates signficantly from the old highway route).

If you are going to fly to Goulburn, surely Canberra is a better option since we have some form of infrastructure already. The infinately more sensible option of Badgerys Creek was promptly canned by Mr Rudd when he was elected.

Interesting read, thanks for putting that up. I read the long blurb about the undesirability of non-airport-related development on airport land as being squarly directed at Canberra airport. There has been little airport-type development out there since Snow bought it… they made the runway longer, and, um?

When Snow first bought the airport, the stated intention was to develop the airport as a freight hub for the region, and also to develop it as a gateway for international traffic. The proposal was to bring in international flights, espeically when Sydney was shut for curfew, process them at Canberra and then load them on the VFT. Some kind of fast rail link was integral to many of these plans.

I actually think he coudl develop the international flights thing without a train. he could land the jumbos here, process them, and they could be flying on to their destinations in smaller planes. Many destinations don’t have curfews, and new flights could be created. For those heading to Sydney, there’d be a few hours wait. Although the train would have got round the congestion at Sydney problem better.

At some point though, the property development thing took over from the aviation thing, and we’re still reeling on the effects of that. A hitherto busy road is now a blocked-up mess. A bunch of big, grand buildings flanking that funny little airport terminal.

I wonder why Badgery’s is off the plan now? That area was earmarked for an airport.

Goulburn was always mooted as a possible option, and Goulburn was wildly enthusiastic. The only issue would be transport to Sydney… I wonder if they could upgrade the rail line? A decent, modern train would be in Sydney from Gouburn faster than a normal train from Sydney’s West. Especially if it was a transit train, and didn’t stop.

seekay said :

As someone who used to work in the infrastructure and construction sector, take it from me: the VFT was only ever a massive property development scam by the proponents.

They always expected the feds to tip in most of the money. Nation building infrastructure it ain’t.

If it was done correctly it would be.

They already own the land at Badgery’s Creek. Seems to me they could just build the airport their if in fact they actually wanted to build one at all.

I did wonder when in the history of government there had been a deliberate intention to over-regulate.

A get-out clause like that says to me “we’re going to regulate you into the ground and you’re going to thank us for it”.

If this is the exec summary then the report itself must be turgid indeed. Lots of key words that these spn types use to bore the community into a deep but falsely complacent sleep. For example:

There is no intention to over-regulate …A coordinated approach … Proposals … will be closely scrutinised, recognising concerns … Airport sites are scarce and valuable … planning … consistent with its long-term development as an airport … supports the optimal mix of aeronautical uses.

Who got paid to write this?

As someone who used to work in the infrastructure and construction sector, take it from me: the VFT was only ever a massive property development scam by the proponents.

They always expected the feds to tip in most of the money. Nation building infrastructure it ain’t. I can’t see the Rudd government paying for it.

They need to stop filling up the land with businesses and start using it as an airport. One day Canberra will be big enough to justify international flights, but there will be a severe lack of large aircraft parking/terminals. It is the perfect site for “Sydneys second airport” even if it means rediverting cargo to Canberra to make more space for commercial flights to Kingsford Smith Int. With the implementation of a VFT, the airport could be used as a second airport for commercial flights, similar to London’s Stanstead airport. However, none of this will happen because both the ACT and NSW Governments are useless and incompatible.

For those doubting that Canberra Aiport + VFT could be a viable second Sydney airport, I would point out that the Narita Express takes 60 minutes to get from the airport to Tokyo station – around the same travel time as a 300 km/h VFT would take to do Canberra Airport to Central.