‎SOS - Save Our Suburbs/Save Our Serenity

I lived in both Palmerston and Kaleen and distinctly remember aircraft flying over both houses. Am I missing something here?

I like the way the statement blithely says that planes currently go over rural properties to the north and south. Actually, rural areas in all directions cop the planes. My hill to the east of canberra is a turn marker for planes, normally from about 4pm onwards, but if the wind is right, they come over all day. In fact, it seems to already be on their Map of Horror (the turn over Googong). So it’s OK for everyone EXCEPT the Suburbs of Serenity to cop Canberra airport noise, apparently. Nasty attitude.

Of course, the big issue they don’t mention is that it won’t be 747s at 6am. They’ll be coming over at 2am, and any other am that they want to because unlike sydney airport, Canberra has no curfew!!!!

and THAT is why Snow’s Shambles are fighting Tralee so strenuously. They have a lot more to lose if planes have to start coming in over Canberra. Their lovely fat nightime/dawn window of opportunity.

Jemmy how come we already get quite loud aircraft taking off over our house in hackett then? And a lot more some weekends, and some evenings (I imagine when there are clouds they are going around.)

oops ..sorry about the double up. (Hiding back in hole)

Ah Tralee!. A Planes spotters paradise

Ah Tralee!. A Plain spotters paradise

Pandy is right, that graphic is very misleading. I can’t find public access to the charts so that you can see what I’m talking about, but the noise abatement procedures and the standard departures for jets show Tuggeranong wouldn’t be overflown, nor would North Canberra. (I presume we’re really only concerned with departures since that’s when the noise is, but arrivals are similar anyway.)

Takeoffs to the north can’t turn until at 4,500′-5000′ or abeam Mt Majura, so that’s north canberra safe. Takeoffs to the south have to keep clear of the noise abatement area or until 5000′. (The noise abatement area is those greeny/brown shaded patches on the map.)

(Anyone know why Airservices seem to have shut public access to the SID/STARS?)

Hell if the houses are cheap enough I’ll move there. There’s bigger issues in life than a bit of noise folks.

Bring on the noise!

Why does everything aftr “i.e.” get trimmed?

If the jet does turn west above Hume to travel to Melbourne/Adelaide will it thus be told to fly over southern Tuggeranong south of Isabella Drive, or will the flight path be jinked to fly slightly to the west over Mt Rob Roy. This is what happens right now right? This avoids all of Tuggeranong right? This results in hardly any aircraft noise right?

So I repeat again, tell us what the actual air paths would look like for commercial jets thanks and maybe then I will start to become afraid.

try again:

i.e.

Mmmm this got trimmed from my letter to Mr Byron when I nhit the refresh button.

“i.e.

Bugger! server slow hit the refresh button. sorrrrreeeeeeeeeee

.
Mr Byron, I know that you guys at the C.I.A. are reading this blog, so let me make an observation or two
Your diagram above shows landing aircraft cutting across the middle of Tuggeranong. I believe that you are scaring the chickens with that map. Exactly which aircraft will be flying this flight path and how high will it be? I believe that it will be smaller VIP jets, Dash 8s and other aircraft. But will they include 737s and 767s et. al.?

You and I know that landing aircraft approaching from the south will be aligned some 18kms out with the runway; about over Church Creek right? This 18km rule is the case with many airports: see NOISE AND FLIGHT PATH MONITORING SYSTEM ADELAIDE QUARTERLY REPORT JULY – SEPTEMBER 2005 A I R S E R V I C E S A U S T R A L I A.

737s taking off will fly about 10kms before they turn which is what happens at CAG now. Most aircraft taking off will fly north. However, those taking off south will be above south Hume/Jerrabomberra before they would do a sharp turn, at which point the aircraft will be around 5000 feet above ground level. From your own noise maps, at around 5000′ the aircraft will not be creating “high noise” i.e.

Where is the return email address to ask Mr Byron some questions in his media release?

If the email list has a genuine association with the sender, they are allowed to send one email, as long as it provides the option to unsubscribe from any future emails I believe.

I hear planes all the time where I live in Belconnen. its nothing to complain about, it takes about a minute for the noise to go over and honestly, it doesn’t bother me.

If the Canberra Airport Group is sending unsolicited emails they probably should complain to ACMA.

https://web.acma.gov.au/secure/complaint_form.htm

ozchick – the Airport Rewards card..
(heh, not only are you exiled to BBP, but you get to PAY for the priveledge of a “rewards” card..)

Don’t get me wrong I’m all for development at Tralee and an airport freight hub too if it is viable.

An airport freight hub would create jobs, higher incomes and growth in the local economy.

“One would imagine that Bungendore would be a prime location given the Defence Base going out there. “

Have you seen the road between Queanbeyan and Bungendore lately? It will be more dangerous driving from home to work (at the new HQ) than being deployed to Iraq.

I grew up not far from the Amberly RAAF base in QLD. The base has been in operation since WWII and as a kid it was great to see the array of aircraft using the base (including some bloody huge Yank Galaxies). Most of the folks in sunny old Ipswich knew that you are going to get the odd spot of aircraft noise from the biggest Air Force base in Australia and were quite content to put up with it.

But this still didn’t stop the whining pinkos who purchased cheap housing in the area from complaining endlessly about the noise. End result was that the RAAF had its hours of operation cut and there were bans on night flying after 8pm.

Folks at Tralee will probably buy for the ‘semi-rural lifestyle’ on offer out there and will take offence at having their pet Llamas disturbed by low flying 737s. They petition the local member to reduce the aircraft noise, and we end up with noise sharing.

There are plenty of other locations around Queanbeyan for future developments aside from Tralee. One would imagine that Bungendore would be a prime location given the Defence Base going out there.

And this is not a good or bad idea becuase the airport opposes it.

It is just a bad idea in general. Building under a future flightpath is very very poor planning. building under a current flightpath is insane.

andy which rewards program is that?

Ralph,

The ACT airport as a logistics/freight hub is very attractive considering the fact that Sydney and Melbourne have to shut by midnight. Currently, Canberra Airport runs 24/7. The roads run hot of a night. Naturally, jamming a bunch of folks in the direct flight path and their houses would be minor inconveinience, at the least.

It was sent out to a colleague of mine by Canberra Airport Group.. several colleagues got it, they are all part of the “rewards program”
The Email headers make it clear that it’s being sent, By CAG, to recipients of a list that have not requested any such information.

In particular, the first source address I can locate is server1.capitalairportgrp.com.au

Rockwool in the roof and double glazed windows equals noise problem fixed. At the same time very energy efficient house.

VYBerlinaV8: Expanding the airport doesn’t have anything to do with any government, state, territory or federal.

It’s purely a question for the airport owners. They’ll pursue it if they think they can make money; if they don’t, they won’t.

Ultimately they have no control over what goes on over the border. So the best they can do is huff and puff and scaremonger.

If Canberra Airport doesn’t want any development under its flight path then why didn’t they do the right thing and purchase the land? Instead they want the Queanbeyan Council to meekly comply and not develop while the airport continues its own development frenzy.

Some of us already get aircraft noise, and we are complaining cos we don’t want more. It has nothing to do with Sydney. Except perhaps that like Sydneyites before the third runway, most Canberrans are naive about how disruptive it will be, until it happens.

You guys may love to see planes flying overhead – I guess you get to see them when they are quite high up and you don’t get much noise. It is quite annoying to have to stop speaking to someone for a minute while a plane goes over. I get enough already, and don’t want any more.

There’s also the issue of flying into a place with bugger all population (comparatively) to consume the freight, no infrastructure to store or move it once it gets here, the fact that some planes (esp from US) will need to fly further (using more fuel, a major cost for aircraft), there’s no room to load/unload the planes, and some others I couldn’t be bothered writing down.

These sorts of ideas seem ok during boom time when the govt has lots of money to spend, but when leaner times come it will all seem very foolish.

A 24-hour freight hub is currently just a pipe dream for the airport.

That will need rail and road transport facilities to operate effectively. At present all we’ve got on that side of the equation is the freight passing thru town to fill the shops.

For it to be economic it has to offer freight at prices below Sydney and Melbourne.

Soooooo… ACT govco builds the gaol right where it will piss NSW residents off, then wonders why NSW says ‘screw you’. Well, I hope you enjoy the taste of your own medicine!

I have no problem at all with the Tralee development going ahead, but I do give a damn about the possibility of flightpaths being moved so as to not cause excessive noise over Tralee.

Canberra Airport has been located where it is for over 70 years and if someone is stupid enough to buy a house under the existing flightpath, then bully for them. Don’t expect everyone else to carry the burden because they decided to purchase land in that spot while knowing full well that it is on a flightpath.

As I have said before, if you buy at Tralee you should have to sign an agreement to waive any right to complain about aircraft noise.

It’s that easy!

Make no mistake, the chief reason why the airport is vehemently opposed to this development is that it will make it more or less impossible for Canberra Airport to operate as a 24-hour freight hub and/or international airport.

However, in this cases I think the commercial interests of the Airport are the same as those of Canberra residents.

Tralee is a bad, BAD idea for the simple reason that (a) Eden-Monaro is a marginal seat, and (b) the Federal Government can override the ACT government.

In other words — each election, there’s a non-trivial chance that changes to the flight paths of Canberra Airport will become an election promise of one or both of the major parties.

The only way to avoid this becoming an election football is to prevent the suburbs being built in the first place.

Vic, I agree (though I’m not moving to Tralee for no other reason but because I love where I am). I love planes flying overhead and often times go outside with my son to see them as he loves planes too.

Are any of the people who are complaining about planes flying overhead if Tralee goes ahead from Sydney (apart from me)? Is your objection because of all the uproar those years ago when flight paths changed due to the introduction of the third runway? And the memory of that makes you speak louder now? Just wondering.

I’d love it if planes flew straight over my house, I love aircraft. I may move to Tralee if this will be the case!

Well people have to live somewhere, and with the ACT’s draconian planning arrangements and high rates of taxation it is little wonder business is booming over the border.

Kenk – I agree with sharing. But there’s no-one to share the noise with yet because the land hasn’t been developed and the idiots haven’t started to buy. In other words, someone is building a problem in the knowledge that everyone else in the region will have to wear it.

What is threatened is not the equivalent of Canbera helping Goulburn because the people there have run out of water. It’s the equivalent of everyone else shipping water to the Simpson Desert because some moron decides he wants to move there.

Development at Tralee is good for the Queanbeyan economy, and will continue to be another parasite on the ACT.

As for the jobs, that’s a pretty piss poor arguement. If you are a tradie in the ACT region, and you can get work at the moment, then you must be pretty hopeless.

johnboy, not you that’s for sure.

The message is to the people who are complaining about the development at Tralee going ahead AKA the owners of Canberra Airport. And as for another court case, I am never in favour of people wasting court’s time.

NIMBY propaganda.

Development at Tralee is good for the local economy. People rallying against it are protesting against jobs.

I see my suburb, Page is listed amongst the possible affected suburbs. If the plane isn’t sufficiently high by the time they are over Page, something would have to be seriously wrong.

I don’t see why the whole of the ACT needs to suffer because someone makes a stupid decision to buy a house under an existing flight path. If I buy a house next to the sewerage treatment plant does everyone in Canberra get delivered a share of the stinky air?

Buyer beware I say!

I’d be more inclined to take Mr Byron’s concern for the people of Canberra seriously if he did something to fix up the worst designed carpark in the southern hemisphere at Canberra airport, and contribute to fixing the traffic snarls created by overdevelopment at Canberra airport! Whenever I see anti-Tralee signs at the airport, it looks to me like they are saying do as I say, not as I do…

If it doesn’t list my suburb, does that mean its ok to not care??

Futto: land at Stromlo is in A.C.T. Tralee is in N.S.W. and will make a lot of dosh for the QBN council.

What happened to the plan to build out at Googong? Plenty of now dry land available 🙂

I reject the image of Canberra people as the ultimate ‘nimbys’. If Goulburn is short of water, or Tralee or Jerrabomberra have too much aircraft noise, then we, as neighbours, will weigh in – we will share the burden. Just as they would if we were in trouble.
Canberra receives whatever benefits the uncontrolled development of Canberra Airport has yielded. So we will not shrink from offsetting any bad consequences for our neighbors in NSW.

I’m curious as to why a development to the south of the runway would affect take-offs to the north, from runway 35. I don’t know if jet aircraft would be able to make the turn and keep a minimum distance from terrain when going between Mt Ainslie and Mt Majura. Perhaps the graphic is a little misleading, hoping to stir up anger in some of the expensive areas of the inner north.

I’m no fan of Mr Snow, but I think that people should not buy land under a flight path and then expect the flight paths to change for them.

If they let 747’s land at the airport from 6am, i will be able to chuck out the crappy alarm clock i have.

Nothing beats the whole house shaking when one of those takes off…i love staying a friends house in botany on weekends….but then again, i do get to escape it when i come home.

Why are they building on land that is clearly under the flight paths where there is stacks of land on the other side of the city such as stromlo and near the zoo?

There is an existing set of flight paths, and they tend to hit what will be Tralee. This should not be a problem save for anyone dimwitted enough to buy there (and this includes the developer who bought the land).

But it will become a problem for everyone else (Canberra, the rest of Queanbeyan) when the dills decide they don’t like the noise any more and agitate whatever chimp happens to have been elected in Eden-Monaro to get others to share the problems they bought at a discount price.

It is silly, with respect, to say that Sydney is worse. It is worse, and in many ways as well as aircraft noise. But people choose to live there and some choose to buy near flight paths because of the other advantages. One of the amenities of Canberra is that it is relatively quiet, and one of the reasons for that is ….. see para 1 above.

DuffyMum… Who are you talking to?

And what’s it to you if there is a court case?

@Absent Diane, good call. People need to just suck it up.

If you don’t like it, take a real stand and leave Canberra. Sure it’s far fetched, but I’m sure if you were so opposed to aeroplanes, there’s a nice gully in the middle of NSW in the bush somewhere devoid of all external influences. Jesus. People are whingers.

i seriously fcking hate the do-gooder whingers that canberra produces. If you get a flight path over house then move.

Stop trying to hold Canberrans to ransom by saying that if we don’t help you to stop the development at Tralee you will send all the aircraft over our homes – heck, if you were involved in the profitable development of homes at Tralee (and I bet you wish you were) you’d shift the flight paths over Canberra without any publicity to us Canberrans.

Tell me – is there going to be another court case brought about by you because you didn’t get your way again (thinking of that big development at Canberra Ave and Hindmarsh Drive)??

Oh, and BTW, I came from Sydney where I grew up with lots more planes going over my head than Canberra could ever have … and I didn’t move here to get away from them in case that’s you’re thinking.

Dangerous analogy, the Kerrigans LIKED being under the airport flight paths.