Kyall Green's Story

eatthatfrog said :

IrishPete said :

I don’t think anyone has proposed taking organs against the individual’s wishes. Where there is disagreement, it is whether my family should be able to over-ride my wishes. They can’t with my Will, so why with my organs?

IP

Hi IP

It’s very easy to get into philosophical arguments about it until you’ve been in the situation., which I can see you have, so I can see you’ve had a terrible choice to make yourself.

IrishPete said :

Even if you believe in a God, what kind of belief system, or what kind of God, would prevent you donating your organs? I can almost understand you not wanting to accept donated organs or blood (especially from an Atheist like me), but donation is different.

I’m more flexible than I used to be. Growing up, my best friend was a Jehovah’s Witness, and she was unable to get a kidney transplant which saved her life. My mother was also the personal nurse to a woman on in-home dialysis for three years in the early 80s before the renal unit opened up in our town.

I understand that visceral reaction to wanting it to be “opt out”, or the family not being able to override the donor’s wishes.

But, now. four years after my transplant, I’m faced with still having the thank you letter left to write to their family.

I haven’t been able to bring myself to write it yet for other reasons, but I’d find it terribly hard to write if I knew that family had tried to override the decision.

Thankfully, I am a registered organ donor (except for my corneas, which are obviously shot), so I don’t have to face that choice.

I don’t know the answer to that question.

But I do know that the very timing of organ harvesting means that families may not be in right mind, and decisions that conflict with the individual’s view may not be driven by religion etc.

This isn’t a philosophical argument, it’s a simple practical one.

Actually I wasn’t involved in the decision with my brother, but my fairly devout Catholic parents were and they stepped up to the mark and made the right decision.

I actually find it quite offensive that you put “opt out” and family’s overriding wishes, into the same sentence. They are completely different issues. I don’t think I have commented on “opt out” – I have queried people’s motivations, but not their right. (Feel free to correct me if I have forgotten something I previously wrote.)

But family overriding is a different matter. They may be very distressed, but I’m the one who is dead or brain dead and about to be completely dead. And if I am perchance hovering above in some celestial form, how effing distressed am I going to be that they failed to follow my wishes? It’s grossly selfish. And I bet many of those families will feel guilty for the rest of their lives and wish they hadn’t been given the veto.

IP

IrishPete said :

I don’t think anyone has proposed taking organs against the individual’s wishes. Where there is disagreement, it is whether my family should be able to over-ride my wishes. They can’t with my Will, so why with my organs?

IP

Hi IP

It’s very easy to get into philosophical arguments about it until you’ve been in the situation., which I can see you have, so I can see you’ve had a terrible choice to make yourself.

IrishPete said :

Even if you believe in a God, what kind of belief system, or what kind of God, would prevent you donating your organs? I can almost understand you not wanting to accept donated organs or blood (especially from an Atheist like me), but donation is different.

I’m more flexible than I used to be. Growing up, my best friend was a Jehovah’s Witness, and she was unable to get a kidney transplant which saved her life. My mother was also the personal nurse to a woman on in-home dialysis for three years in the early 80s before the renal unit opened up in our town.

I understand that visceral reaction to wanting it to be “opt out”, or the family not being able to override the donor’s wishes.

But, now. four years after my transplant, I’m faced with still having the thank you letter left to write to their family.

I haven’t been able to bring myself to write it yet for other reasons, but I’d find it terribly hard to write if I knew that family had tried to override the decision.

Thankfully, I am a registered organ donor (except for my corneas, which are obviously shot), so I don’t have to face that choice.

I don’t know the answer to that question.

But I do know that the very timing of organ harvesting means that families may not be in right mind, and decisions that conflict with the individual’s view may not be driven by religion etc.

eatthatfrog said :

Thankyou Kyall. Gifts like yours change and save lives

As for the other debates – it’s very, very easy to get into a philosophical argument and forget that the circumstances of organ donation are done in incredibly stressful situations and it is a terrible burden for any family to take on. I would ask others to reserve their judgement about the families and individuals who choose not to donate for whatever reason.

As an organ recipient – I received a donated cornea in 2009 in an operation that literally stopped me from legal blindness – I am incredibly grateful for the gift I received and I am doubly grateful that the family supported the donor’s decision in a time of stress and grief.

How would you feel if you learned that the organ that saved your life was taken against the individual’s or their family’s wishes?

You don’t know.

Nobody knows.

So before this becomes a three page flamewar, please have a little respect people.

And thank you again to the people like Kyall and your families. I am so honoured by the gift I received as I am sure the recipients of Kyall’s gifts are.

I don’t think anyone has proposed taking organs against the individual’s wishes. Where there is disagreement, it is whether my family should be able to over-ride my wishes. They can’t with my Will, so why with my organs?

IP

BimboGeek said :

Even tattoos and piercings may be taboo.

WoooHoOOOOOo, hell, here i come!!!!

Thankyou Kyall. Gifts like yours change and save lives

As for the other debates – it’s very, very easy to get into a philosophical argument and forget that the circumstances of organ donation are done in incredibly stressful situations and it is a terrible burden for any family to take on. I would ask others to reserve their judgement about the families and individuals who choose not to donate for whatever reason.

As an organ recipient – I received a donated cornea in 2009 in an operation that literally stopped me from legal blindness – I am incredibly grateful for the gift I received and I am doubly grateful that the family supported the donor’s decision in a time of stress and grief.

How would you feel if you learned that the organ that saved your life was taken against the individual’s or their family’s wishes?

You don’t know.

Nobody knows.

So before this becomes a three page flamewar, please have a little respect people.

And thank you again to the people like Kyall and your families. I am so honoured by the gift I received as I am sure the recipients of Kyall’s gifts are.

IrishPete said :

BimboGeek said :

IP Orthodox Christians and I believe most Muslims need their entire body intact to go to Heaven. Even tattoos and piercings may be taboo.

Also note that there are several versions of reincarnation, each of which gives a different explanation about how (to put it in simple familiar terms) the soul leaves the body. In my religion it takes several years, so transplantation can cause confusion where the surviving individual experiences thoughts and feelings consistent with the deceased… It might to more harm than good (although most recipients I’m aware of seem pretty well adjusted so I suspect this fear may be unfounded).

Wot no appendix or tonsils removed? Nor spleen? What about amputated limbs? Do all these bits need to be stored and reunited in the grave/crematorium? Some religious beliefs are so inconsistent and silly they are made to be ridiculed.

There are few religious people who refuse transplants – Jehovah’s Witnesses are the best known. I’ve never heard of a Muslim or a Buddhist or an Orthodox Christian (do you mean Russian and Greek? or some other meaning of Orthodox?) refusing a transplant or blood transfusion.

Maybe the JWs get more publicity because they knock on our doors. I wonder would a sign saying “I Am An Organ Donor” keep them away? Last time I was in the bath and didn’t answer the door anyway.

IP

And what about suicide bombers? They pretty much end up as a red stain. Must make sex with virgins in the afterlife impossible.

Great story about Greeny though – a lovely bloke from a lovely family.

BimboGeek said :

IP Orthodox Christians and I believe most Muslims need their entire body intact to go to Heaven. Even tattoos and piercings may be taboo.

Also note that there are several versions of reincarnation, each of which gives a different explanation about how (to put it in simple familiar terms) the soul leaves the body. In my religion it takes several years, so transplantation can cause confusion where the surviving individual experiences thoughts and feelings consistent with the deceased… It might to more harm than good (although most recipients I’m aware of seem pretty well adjusted so I suspect this fear may be unfounded).

Wot no appendix or tonsils removed? Nor spleen? What about amputated limbs? Do all these bits need to be stored and reunited in the grave/crematorium? Some religious beliefs are so inconsistent and silly they are made to be ridiculed.

There are few religious people who refuse transplants – Jehovah’s Witnesses are the best known. I’ve never heard of a Muslim or a Buddhist or an Orthodox Christian (do you mean Russian and Greek? or some other meaning of Orthodox?) refusing a transplant or blood transfusion.

Maybe the JWs get more publicity because they knock on our doors. I wonder would a sign saying “I Am An Organ Donor” keep them away? Last time I was in the bath and didn’t answer the door anyway.

IP

IP Orthodox Christians and I believe most Muslims need their entire body intact to go to Heaven. Even tattoos and piercings may be taboo.

Also note that there are several versions of reincarnation, each of which gives a different explanation about how (to put it in simple familiar terms) the soul leaves the body. In my religion it takes several years, so transplantation can cause confusion where the surviving individual experiences thoughts and feelings consistent with the deceased… It might to more harm than good (although most recipients I’m aware of seem pretty well adjusted so I suspect this fear may be unfounded).

Can I choose not to have my organs donated to a Liberal or National voter? Or an ALP voter? Except my lungs of course, as I smoke a bit. Greens voters get all the good bits.

Really folks, this isn’t about someone else (like the Evel Gubbinment) owning your body, it’s about giving life, or quality of life, to someone after you are dead. Even if you believe in a God, what kind of belief system, or what kind of God, would prevent you donating your organs? I can almost understand you not wanting to accept donated organs or blood (especially from an Atheist like me), but donation is different.

My brother died young, and the circumstances of his death (drowning, body not found for about a day) meant that only his corneas could be used. Such a waste. Of a life and a death.

IP

Deref said :

Organ donation should be the default – you shouldn’t have to opt in. Families should have no part in the decision other than in initial discussions with the (still living) donor.

(I’ve opted in, since that’s currently necessary.)

I totally disagree that there should be a presumption that the government owns your body, even after death. This is what the default position being changed so that it is in favour of donation would amount to. Many people are obviously choosing not to register, and that is their right.

I am registered as a donor. My husband understands that this is what I would like to happen, should I die in circumstances where I could be useful, even though I don’t think he particularly likes the idea.