Liberal plans for Tuggeranong

wildturkeycanoe said :

Let’s not forget that area is now Murrumbidgee catchment

So it was in the Snowy catchment before 1975?

Kim F said :

Maybe Z should resign his Senate seat and go back to the local circus where he would actually have a better chance of influencing such a decision.

This passion for the southern district would have been why he achieved such a significant vote in the last election – on the basis that he would achieve great things for Tuggeranong, only to betray those votes by moving to the Senate shortly after.

Tuggeranong is not the flavour of the month with the current planning processes and is a bit of a forgotten area, instead Gungahlin gets all the glory/benefits/new toys – GDE, Light Rail, NBN. Without new residential growth we will continue to have to use our cars mainly to get anywhere in good time.

wildturkeycanoe said :

Me2 said :

It seems you need to get your own facts straight, watto:
Tuggeranong Proposed Suburb Names.

Note the suburbs west of the river running from Kambah to Tharwa.

Your 1975 map obviously predates the Bullen Range Nature Reserve being declared and eliminating a dozen of those suburbs from existing. Building in those areas was always a bit ambitious when you look at the terrain, steep and hilly. Let’s not forget that area is now Murrumbidgee catchment and the planners would have a nightmare trying to figure out how not to ruin the water quality if they started building nearby.
Interesting how far Hume, Mitchell and Franklin ended up from their original destinations though.

Yes but watto, in a post/rant about using facts to support an argument, stated:
“The actual land west of the Murrumbidgee in those really old plans was down near Tharwa on the western side of the Murrumbidgee.” The link I provided shows the ‘really old’ plans he alluded to and they proved him wrong. As watto said, “I’m surprised at how many people can’t/won’t/don’t actually think about problems first and then use facts to actually support them.” Couldn’t have said it better myself.

I assume what you’ve mentioned played a large part in why those plans were changed/abandoned.

Me2 said :

It seems you need to get your own facts straight, watto:
Tuggeranong Proposed Suburb Names.

Note the suburbs west of the river running from Kambah to Tharwa.

Your 1975 map obviously predates the Bullen Range Nature Reserve being declared and eliminating a dozen of those suburbs from existing. Building in those areas was always a bit ambitious when you look at the terrain, steep and hilly. Let’s not forget that area is now Murrumbidgee catchment and the planners would have a nightmare trying to figure out how not to ruin the water quality if they started building nearby.
Interesting how far Hume, Mitchell and Franklin ended up from their original destinations though.

miz said :

I was there. They said a lot of rubbish actually. Like, Tuggeranong will benefit ‘because people from Tuggeranong will be employed on the light rail project.’ Gee wiz.
As to ‘when’ (translation: ‘if’) light rail makes it to Tuggeranong, the map had proposed lines ‘on the plan’ to keep us sweet, but with the caveat that making it to Tuggeranong is ‘many years away’ [translation: Buckley’s]. There were proposed links to Tuggers Town Centre, Erindale and Lanyon – a kind of loop. The most glaring omission was NOTHING down the Monaro Hwy, despite it being an ideal extension to and from the airport, having wide median strips, and able to link to Fyshwick, Hume, the new industrial park they are putting in, the new cemetery, the prison and on to Lanyon. Fools. Designed by northsiders, obviously, who have no clue.

Anything said about government housing?

I was there. They said a lot of rubbish actually. Like, Tuggeranong will benefit ‘because people from Tuggeranong will be employed on the light rail project.’ Gee wiz.
As to ‘when’ (translation: ‘if’) light rail makes it to Tuggeranong, the map had proposed lines ‘on the plan’ to keep us sweet, but with the caveat that making it to Tuggeranong is ‘many years away’ [translation: Buckley’s]. There were proposed links to Tuggers Town Centre, Erindale and Lanyon – a kind of loop. The most glaring omission was NOTHING down the Monaro Hwy, despite it being an ideal extension to and from the airport, having wide median strips, and able to link to Fyshwick, Hume, the new industrial park they are putting in, the new cemetery, the prison and on to Lanyon. Fools. Designed by northsiders, obviously, who have no clue.

davo101 said :

The Tram Plan means this is not going to happen. To make the tram viable most of the future growth of Canberra is going to have to be on the north side. According to the projections in the proposal given to IA the populations of Tuggeranong and Woden will both fall by 3000 each by 2030. Most of the growth will have to be in North Canberra and Gungahlin (78,000) and Molonglo (33,000).

Are there any Rioters that attended the last TCC meeting when the Canberra Capital Metro Agency salesman gave a presentation? When did they say they are extending the track to Tuggers?

Me2 said :

It seems you need to get your own facts straight, watto:
Tuggeranong Proposed Suburb Names.

Note the suburbs west of the river running from Kambah to Tharwa.

It’s interesting to see that Tuggeranong was originally intended to cater for 170,000.

It seems you need to get your own facts straight, watto:
Tuggeranong Proposed Suburb Names.

Note the suburbs west of the river running from Kambah to Tharwa.

miz said :

Watto, generally only northsiders think of the Hyperdome as ‘the centre of Tuggeranong’ and the Parkway as ‘the road to ‘Tuggeranong’ (those in the central and east side use the Monaro or Erindale/Yamba Drs). Any map would show you that these are on the western edge of Tuggeranong as presently established.

Sorry were facts like actual distances too much for you. I have lived in Tuggeranong for 37 odd years, back when it was just Kambah and Wanniassa. Yes its west, but still central. You don’t have to build to the west to make it central. There isn’t any land to the west to build on. Just some hills. The actual land west of the Murrumbidgee in those really old plans was down near Tharwa on the western side of the Murrumbidgee. But don’t let facts get in the way of an argument or just let politicians get away with rubbish just so you’ll vote for them again.

I’m surprised at how many people can’t/won’t/don’t actually think about problems first and then use facts to actually support them.

As others have pointed out, there are a number of reasons to be sceptical about a significant expansion of Tuggeranong – most particularly the likely lack of demand. If Senator Zed can help to persuade his colleagues to keep a substantial APS presence in Tuggeranong – thus bolstering the viability of the Hyperdome and other businesses, and reducing the commute for some Tuggeranong residents – that will have been a worthwhile achievement.

The Tram Plan means this is not going to happen. To make the tram viable most of the future growth of Canberra is going to have to be on the north side. According to the projections in the proposal given to IA the populations of Tuggeranong and Woden will both fall by 3000 each by 2030. Most of the growth will have to be in North Canberra and Gungahlin (78,000) and Molonglo (33,000).

goggles13 said :

miz said :

While I am far from being a fan of the Libs at Fed level, Zed’s views on this issue make total sense to this Tuggers resident, on several levels. It was stupid not to build west of the Hyperdome at the time, and the reasons given back then just don’t seem to hold up now. Any development could be done sensitively. And Tuggeranong could certainly do with new housing construction, given the removal of the first home buyer grant on established homes – which is all we have in Tuggeranong. I do tire of Mr Rattenbury, who appears to have nothing but contempt for Tuggeranong and naturally opposes any development to the west of the ‘dome.

agree with all of this.

I don’t understand the currently mentality that says Canberra cannot spread out a bit more. who knows, if Canberra spread out a bit, block sizes could be a bit bigger. I don’t like the continual urban infill that has happened since I moved to Canberra in 1998.

Canberra is spreading out – look at Wright and Molonglo valley developments. The trouble is that the blocks are still tiny and dear as poison, and the infrastructure to support all this development isn’t being built. Can you imagine what Parks Way west of the city and Adelaide Ave are going to be like when all this is finished? I guess all those residents will have to discover the plusses of busses.

Watto, generally only northsiders think of the Hyperdome as ‘the centre of Tuggeranong’ and the Parkway as ‘the road to ‘Tuggeranong’ (those in the central and east side use the Monaro or Erindale/Yamba Drs). Any map would show you that these are on the western edge of Tuggeranong as presently established.

Its not in the centre? ok so its too one side, but its still pretty central. Its about 5.5km to the start of the parkway. 7.5km south to the end of banks and about 6kms to chisholm…
How much more central do you want it? Also those plans date back a long time ago and its not mostly nature reserve. There is some land though from Kambah around the back of Cooleman ridge to the cotter road and I think there are a few block vacant behind the DSS, cantrelink and vikings clubs. the road is meant to link up there, but i’m guessing the infill around the lake at the South Quay development was more desired.

As far as I’m concerned Zed, got elected, then when he didn’t win he deserted the people of tuggeranong to look after his own ambitions. I would be surprised if the Liberals win a 3rd seat next time, although it will be a new 5 member electorate so the dynamics of where the voters come from will change.

miz said :

While I am far from being a fan of the Libs at Fed level, Zed’s views on this issue make total sense to this Tuggers resident, on several levels. It was stupid not to build west of the Hyperdome at the time, and the reasons given back then just don’t seem to hold up now. Any development could be done sensitively. And Tuggeranong could certainly do with new housing construction, given the removal of the first home buyer grant on established homes – which is all we have in Tuggeranong. I do tire of Mr Rattenbury, who appears to have nothing but contempt for Tuggeranong and naturally opposes any development to the west of the ‘dome.

agree with all of this.

I don’t understand the currently mentality that says Canberra cannot spread out a bit more. who knows, if Canberra spread out a bit, block sizes could be a bit bigger. I don’t like the continual urban infill that has happened since I moved to Canberra in 1998.

While I am far from being a fan of the Libs at Fed level, Zed’s views on this issue make total sense to this Tuggers resident, on several levels. It was stupid not to build west of the Hyperdome at the time, and the reasons given back then just don’t seem to hold up now. Any development could be done sensitively. And Tuggeranong could certainly do with new housing construction, given the removal of the first home buyer grant on established homes – which is all we have in Tuggeranong. I do tire of Mr Rattenbury, who appears to have nothing but contempt for Tuggeranong and naturally opposes any development to the west of the ‘dome.

Maybe Z should resign his Senate seat and go back to the local circus where he would actually have a better chance of influencing such a decision.

I thought the reason they couldn’t complete Tuggeranong was BECAUSE of protected species found on the west side of town…so what’s changed?
I also thought that because the centre of Tuggeranong isn’t now actually the centre of population, they were going to move stuff across and pump money into Erindale, including the bus station?

CIT has been planning a proper Tuggeranong campus for years and I would be very surprised if Zed didn’t know this. Claiming that he is working to secure one is simply disingenuous.

I agree here with arescarti42 that the Bullen Range nature reserve would have to be intruded upon, or all the traffic would end up going through Point Hut crossing, thus stranding that whole suburb every time it rains a bit. Also, has Zed actually been out there? The area is half covered in pine plantation and is too steep for building on. There is the question of the land ownership and if they are willing to sell and remember that the government just stopped releasing land at the present, so would they reverse their recent decision to start development again, thus losing their taxation revenue from inflated land tax?
This to me stinks of someone trying to please southern Canberra with empty promises to gain support for something else. Will never happen.

thatsnotme said :

gooterz said :

thatsnotme said :

TP 3000 said :

I may be mistaken, but a big part of this plan would of included a 4 lane each way Tuggeranong Parkway.

Yep, you’re mistaken. Major highways into Sydney and Melbourne are no more than 4 lanes each way – the idea that the Parkway should be an 8 lane highway, with barely 1/10th of the population of Sydney or Melbourne, just makes no sense.

Sydney and melbs both have better public transport and much higher parking prices.

Soooo….because our public transport isn’t as good, and our parking prices are lower, we should be spending our money on super-highways between town centres that are fully utilised for a few hours per day?

Our public transport is abysmal in some areas and costs 10x what people pay in fares.
Most of our employment is focused in one part of town, so the morning peak is all one direction and the opposite way at night. If half of the employment was down south it would even out.

Several of the main roads in Canberra have gone to 3 lanes. which helps not only with congestion but also decreases the impact of people who have poor driving skills, instead of half the road they take up 1/3 of it.

At least spending money on super highways is cheaper than spending money on a white elephant rail “network” that only going to marginally increase the experience of travelling by public transport at the cost of driving the road network into chaos.

gooterz said :

thatsnotme said :

TP 3000 said :

I may be mistaken, but a big part of this plan would of included a 4 lane each way Tuggeranong Parkway.

Yep, you’re mistaken. Major highways into Sydney and Melbourne are no more than 4 lanes each way – the idea that the Parkway should be an 8 lane highway, with barely 1/10th of the population of Sydney or Melbourne, just makes no sense.

Sydney and melbs both have better public transport and much higher parking prices.

Soooo….because our public transport isn’t as good, and our parking prices are lower, we should be spending our money on super-highways between town centres that are fully utilised for a few hours per day?

thatsnotme said :

TP 3000 said :

I may be mistaken, but a big part of this plan would of included a 4 lane each way Tuggeranong Parkway.

Yep, you’re mistaken. Major highways into Sydney and Melbourne are no more than 4 lanes each way – the idea that the Parkway should be an 8 lane highway, with barely 1/10th of the population of Sydney or Melbourne, just makes no sense.

Sydney and melbs both have better public transport and much higher parking prices.

TP 3000 said :

I may be mistaken, but a big part of this plan would of included a 4 lane each way Tuggeranong Parkway.

Yep, you’re mistaken. Major highways into Sydney and Melbourne are no more than 4 lanes each way – the idea that the Parkway should be an 8 lane highway, with barely 1/10th of the population of Sydney or Melbourne, just makes no sense.

I may be mistaken, but a big part of this plan would of included a 4 lane each way Tuggeranong Parkway. With a part of this reserve currently being built on for DHA Housing (or very close).

Another part of this article, but it looks to me that when parents buy a house down in the nappy valley. When the nappy wearers grow up they move up to Gungahlin. The same occurred in the old days, which is why schools are shut at one end of town as new schools are opened at the other end.

steveu said :

Also, I think in order to build houses you need jobs for people to go to to fill them. Not sure if Canberra is going to be a place of jobs growth anytime soon either.

What has any act government done to create jobs?

Tuggeranong is prime full of office space but no ones wants to set up shop there. If act Gov. worked out a cheap way to build and run offices at cost price how many governments would have to move into them to reduce costs.

Without a fast train there is no benefit to setting up shop here.

To win an act election
-improve tourism with actual attractions. Get a big day out / battle of the bands type even in Canberra
-be pro fast train to Sydney
-no payment buses
-100km/h grade ring road around Canberra over light rail.
-Ikea
-Affordable housing.
-Attracting more government depts to Canberra

Also, I think in order to build houses you need jobs for people to go to to fill them. Not sure if Canberra is going to be a place of jobs growth anytime soon either.

This is just Zed doing the moves to give the appearance of doing something.

I cannot see his party colleagues doing Canberra any favours. All predictions seem to indicate that the town will be served up like a pig on a spit come budget night.

As for DSS, I cant see them staying in one of the most expensive rental premises in Canberra – and the assimilation into DHS I suspect is inevitable. His influence will have no impact on that decision.

What about an arts university?

The town centre is in the centre of Tuggeranong as it was originally planned, which would have had suburbs stretching as far south as Tharwa and for kms west of the Murrumbidgee River. Only the north eastern part was actually built, which is why the town centre is on the western edge (what would have been the geographical centre of the original plan). It’s probably safe to say that if they were to start from scratch, it’d be located somewhere around Wanniassa/Gowrie/Monash.

I don’t like the chances of Zed’s plan happening, it’d require building suburbs in what is currently a nature reserve, or at the very least putting new roads through the reserve. I can’t imagine why the Government would go to that trouble when there’s plenty of room for growth in Molonglo/Gungahlin/Belconnen etc.

“Is the town centre really in the wrong place?”

The original plan for Tuggeranong had suburbs on both sides of the river, with the town centre located more or less in the centre. The development of the western part of Tuggeranong was stopped at some point leaving a town centre that was not central and didn’t have the full planned population to support it.