Plaza would revitalise Civic's iconic Sydney and Melbourne Buildings: Barr

For starters,why are so many old articles included on new Riots?

The Plaza idea sounds the goods,BUT,not at the expense of road space in the centre of town.Crazy.

Thirdly,come the Republic,the first name change that should occur is ‘London’ Circuit.When I first arrived in Canberra early in ’66,I could not believe that the main thoroughfare connecting many points in the centre of the city was LONDON Circuit! And I still can’t.One of these days Australia might stand on its’ own two feet,perpetuating this nonsense won’t help.

bikhet said :

rubaiyat said :

The typically false logic here is that because something is done badly in one instance the principle is bad.

While the principle may not be bad, execution of the Urban Village (whatever that means) will e done by the same people who did Bunda Street. The precedent is ominous.

rubaiyat said :

Bunda Street was done on the cheap (design wise) but no doubt cost an absolute fortune to build.

And, for the same reason as above, why would anyone expect the “Urban Village” to be different?

So the problem is not the principle, it is who does it.

Then get the designers of New Acton, the Claremont Centre or Britomart on the job.

The trouble is everyone here has painted themselves into the certitude that nothing can EVER be done well in their estimation so they oppose everything.

Well not everything, they just love anything mediocre, polluting and expensive, involving cars.

btw Everyone celebrating 2015 “The Hottest Year Ever” by a league?

Yay, we did it!!

There will be a brief heads bowed whilst we think of butterflies and gasket heads, and then continue on with ignoring it all.

rubaiyat said :

OpenYourMind said :

rubaiyat said :

rommeldog56 said :

rubaiyat said :

Well Canberra drivers are what they are. Extremely selfish, with pedestrians fair targets because they deserve everything they get by walking in the open air.

Where has anyone said or even implied on here that Canberra drivers regard pedestrians as “fair targets” ???

That is just an absurd interpretation & claim.

What ever message (apart from your obvious contempt for car owners, overweight people, anyone who doesn’t use public transport and no doubt, anyone who doesn’t share your views) you try to convey, however well intended, is often lost in these extreme interpretations, assumptions and statements.

I am struck every time I travel anywhere else in Australia, particularly Sydney, how drivers mostly politely stop and let you cross the road.

In Canberra most pedestrians instinctively give cars the right of way on pedestrian crossing because they know it is dangerous to do otherwise. My wife (being Canberran from long back), like you denies this, but I observe that she will not step off onto a pedestrian crossing until all the traffic has passed, rendering the the crossing pointless.

My statements on the behaviour of car drivers and the state of Canberran wastelines is only confirmed simple observation and by the arrogant assumptions made here, that circle round and round and round their “One True Way” blindspot. ie Drive or Die! The Canberra Way!

From my own equally anecdotal evidence, I call BS on this one. I’ve find using a pedestrian crossing here no different to any other Australian city.

Pity we can’t post video evidence here.

I can not only call BS on your BS, I can substantiate that.

So you have detailed videos from randomly chosen pedestrian crossings around Australia (or just Sydney and Canberra) showing how pedestrians and drivers behave differently at crossings?

Or do you simply spend more time with your wife who seems to be very cautious? The confirmation bias seems strong in this one.

Arthur Davies said :

A CBD WAS NEVER INTENDED.

When you don’t know, CAPITILISE the “fact”.

Walter Burley Griffin actually labelled City Hill as “Civic Centre” and the proposed main Train Station on the rail line to Sydney was to be on the East side of exactly where the Light Rail is proposed to terminate, adjacent to the commercial/retail.

These are the actual drawings published by The Federal Capital Commision:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/australia/images/canberra-plan.jpg

The strategy just didn’t pop into bureaucrats heads – it was a very well run series of forums last year. Present were representatives from residents groups, industry groups, indigenous community and more. The organisers had covered all bases. It was open, collaborative, and interrogated a range of options, took account of all points of view and I think was a good experience for everyone involved. It was facilitated by the private sector and government representatives were there to respond to queries, not to manipulate the discussion. The published plans including Sullivans Creek are the preferred outcome by all present. People tend think it’s going to happen right now – this could take a century to be realised (and so it should). It’s a complex equation of supply and demand.

Regarding the Plaza -three lanes are retained. The verge widening is at the expense of the bus and loading zone and turn left lane. This is a terrific opportunity to increase pedestrian use alongside and across the barrier between City East and City West. It is an opportunity to celebrate these two buildings because we don’t have a Town Hall or a Cathedral. When complete let’s bring Enlighten into the City and wash these buildings with moving colour. What do you think?

The majority of cars are passing through Civic and I hope that the traffic modelling is correct and this will decrease as Majura and Gungahlin Drives increase in popularity. Public transport will also assist. The median is a forecourt to the City station which is north of Alinga. I’m looking forward to seeing the details.

Wonderful!

I thought there would be more concern on here about replacing Haig Park with high rise accommodation, workplaces and shops.

The paper at the land and planning website says a Urban Village will be located at Haig Park and that an Urban Village is a medium to high density hub. They are places with homes, shops, cafes,…. .

This is terrible that the original park of Canberra is getting high rises, what a disaster for future generations who will need some green space in the northern side of the inner city.

rubaiyat said :

and good luck with getting anybody wanting be near all the cars and traffic!

There is a reason nearly all the shopfronts along Northbourne and the bus terminus are all painted up and devoid of life.[eyeroll]

people will won’t live in a city with cars and roads. The Sydney buildings empty because it’s run down and no doubt high rent for the run down shop front.

I don’t know who owns them but they are both Sydney and Melbourne buildings are run down . The buildings should gutted and turned into a “A” shaped high rise. Keep the original front facades and tie them into the new building .

Northbourne Avenue should be immediately changed into two lanes of traffic and one bus lane with the traffic signals synchronised for buses. Light rail will not alter this need, and probably won’t happen because Light Rail will need a subsidy of $20/boarding compared with $7/boarding for ACTION and will be less frequent, slower, have stations further away and only have half the seats of our existing public transport system.

World wide studies show, without any doubt, that proximity to high traffic causes increased health problems. So I find the idea of highly populated pedestrian areas anywhere along Northbourne to be highly undesirable, let alone between the Melbourne & Sydney buildings.

The hazards include the obvious gases, CO, NOx, unburnt hydrocarbons, SO2 etc. But dust, especially very fine dust that goes deep into the lungs, is equally dangerous. This dust arises from engine exhausts, wear of tyres & the road surface, brake linings, etc. If trams go ahead then dust from their brakes, wear & corrosion of wheels & rails etc. Add to that the noise from adjacent traffic which also has deleterious health effects, the physical danger from the traffic itself & there is a long term health disaster coming. However the hazard has a long (but sure) lead time & the polys are trading on the fact that they will be long out of office before it hits the fan (remember the history of cigarettes & asbestos). Footpath trendy cafes are a very bad idea for this area, waiters will be saying to customers “do you want a dust mask & earmuffs with your coffee”?

A major hazard for people living along Northbourne (or any major traffic route) is the presence of lead in the soils near the roads. This is a poisonous legacy from the past use of lead in fuel, this lead is retained for very long periods in the soil (or until it enters the mouths of toddlers). So allowing residential development alongside our transport routes is folly indeed.

Past planners did very well in this regard in that they put residents around community centres well back from the traffic routes, away from the very real health hazards. Even Northbourne Av development was not a serious problem as all the verges were “commercial” where workers were in filtered air offices, no houses or schools.

Also included in the overall design were several “town centres” with their own infrastructure, A CBD WAS NEVER INTENDED. That town centre design premise is what makes Canberra unique, if you wish to have a CBD then move to a city that has one, virtually every other city in Australia fills that bill. We must cherish & nurture our unique features if we wish to keep the character of Canberra & attract visitors who come because we have a unique environment.

It is however essential to have fast & convenient transport between town centres to reduce the traffic congestion especially at peak hours. Unfortunately trams have been shown world wide to be too slow to fill that need. There is a need for modern, cheaper, faster, dare one say innovative, alternatives which will meet commuter’s needs & develop a sense of pride & ownership in Canberrans. But that is another issue which I will not go into in detail here.

OpenYourMind said :

rubaiyat said :

rommeldog56 said :

rubaiyat said :

Well Canberra drivers are what they are. Extremely selfish, with pedestrians fair targets because they deserve everything they get by walking in the open air.

Where has anyone said or even implied on here that Canberra drivers regard pedestrians as “fair targets” ???

That is just an absurd interpretation & claim.

What ever message (apart from your obvious contempt for car owners, overweight people, anyone who doesn’t use public transport and no doubt, anyone who doesn’t share your views) you try to convey, however well intended, is often lost in these extreme interpretations, assumptions and statements.

I am struck every time I travel anywhere else in Australia, particularly Sydney, how drivers mostly politely stop and let you cross the road.

In Canberra most pedestrians instinctively give cars the right of way on pedestrian crossing because they know it is dangerous to do otherwise. My wife (being Canberran from long back), like you denies this, but I observe that she will not step off onto a pedestrian crossing until all the traffic has passed, rendering the the crossing pointless.

My statements on the behaviour of car drivers and the state of Canberran wastelines is only confirmed simple observation and by the arrogant assumptions made here, that circle round and round and round their “One True Way” blindspot. ie Drive or Die! The Canberra Way!

From my own equally anecdotal evidence, I call BS on this one. I’ve find using a pedestrian crossing here no different to any other Australian city.

Pity we can’t post video evidence here.

I can not only call BS on your BS, I can substantiate that.

ungruntled said :

gooterz said :

Perhaps we need a tram to connect east and west civic.
Canberra does not have one city but 4.

If Barr ever ventured south or west he’d soon see signs saying city pointing to belconnen tuggeranong and woden.

So much waste. If you want highrise move to Sydney. Maybe Barr would be happier there.

Oh You Just Said It !! Would someone also please tell Ross Solley – he seems to have forgotten the basic ACT plan too. The fact that Canberra was never designed to have a central CBD is one of its unique design features. Many think it is a very special & worthwhile feature. If the powers that be wish to change that, then I think it should be done in the open, not by stealth.
If the Assembly could just remember all four City Centres for a while it would really help. However, I do understand that watching more than one thing at a time is difficult for them . . .

Walter Burley Griffin never planned for multiple townships, so don’t know what you mean by “Canberra was never designed to have a central CBD”.

The multiple Townships were bad ideas slapped on top of the Canberra Plan by planners who were me-tooing British New Towns and had difficulties with adjusting their designs to the southern hemisphere, turning everything so it faced the wrong way.

The bad idea of multiple too small and too close, but not close enough Townships has come home to roost. All the satellite Townships are now struggling and beginning to look derelict. My closest, Woden, shocked me when I went there recently, mostly avoiding it for years. I find it depressing, dull and uninteresting.

The nonsense that it would be possible for people to keep a job for life, and that those jobs would remain conveniently nearby has been proved to be what it is. Also that small, dull townships, handed over to large monopoly Mall owners would be able to provide the full range of services, entertainment and living opportunities has also been shown up for the bleedin’ obvious “Pigs might fly”.

The result is Canberrans endlessly criss-crossing ridiculous distances for a small city, in cars because the sprawling incoherent layout defeats most attempts at a sensible quick public transport system.

OpenYourMind said :

rubaiyat said :

rommeldog56 said :

rubaiyat said :

Well Canberra drivers are what they are. Extremely selfish, with pedestrians fair targets because they deserve everything they get by walking in the open air.

Where has anyone said or even implied on here that Canberra drivers regard pedestrians as “fair targets” ???

That is just an absurd interpretation & claim.

What ever message (apart from your obvious contempt for car owners, overweight people, anyone who doesn’t use public transport and no doubt, anyone who doesn’t share your views) you try to convey, however well intended, is often lost in these extreme interpretations, assumptions and statements.

I am struck every time I travel anywhere else in Australia, particularly Sydney, how drivers mostly politely stop and let you cross the road.

In Canberra most pedestrians instinctively give cars the right of way on pedestrian crossing because they know it is dangerous to do otherwise. My wife (being Canberran from long back), like you denies this, but I observe that she will not step off onto a pedestrian crossing until all the traffic has passed, rendering the the crossing pointless.

My statements on the behaviour of car drivers and the state of Canberran wastelines is only confirmed simple observation and by the arrogant assumptions made here, that circle round and round and round their “One True Way” blindspot. ie Drive or Die! The Canberra Way!

From my own equally anecdotal evidence, I call BS on this one. I’ve find using a pedestrian crossing here no different to any other Australian city.

I agree with you on that. However, on the road there is a certain Canberra passive-aggressive attitude that seems worse than elsewhere. Particularly apparent when merging.

miz said :

rommeldog56 said :

rubaiyat said :

There are plans afoot to surround Vernon Circle with high rise offices and apartments with sufficient gaps to permit southerly gales to form a Dysonesque wind turbine in the centre.

When I questioned the planners as to the traffic, they said they’ll solve that with “Traffic Calming” ie 40km speed limit. Nothing like the combination of Canberra Road Rage mixed in with pedestrians trying to cut across this new pointy Town Square (ignoring the shape as well as the climate and orientation).

Excellent planning that.

Stuff up the traffic flow on Northborne Ave even more by increasing density along it (something identified that would in the ACT Govt’s own EIS), then when/if traffic clears Civic and gets onto Vernon circle, slow it down to 40kph so its even harder and takes longer to clear through Civic.

Yep – makes perfect sense. Now, I wonder if that will clog the city with traffic ? No, surely not……

This plan sounds horrible, like a plan to make it look like it just ‘sprung up.’ Ugh, they are vandalising our town through planning! (which makes me suspect Mr Barr comes from Melbourne). We do NOT want Melbourne here.
And I utterly, vehemently, detest traffic ‘calming’. If they do this, it will be yet another reason to avoid Civic. I already avoid Anketell Street Tuggeranong and various other roads around the traps, though of course the hoons love the speed bumps and make adjacent residents’ life hell. Unfortunately I cannot avoid the speed bump at the end of my street [‘Not Happy Jan Face’]

“And I utterly, vehemently, detest traffic ‘calming’. If they do this, it will be yet another reason to avoid Civic. “

See, traffic calming measures work. 🙂

rubaiyat said :

rommeldog56 said :

rubaiyat said :

Well Canberra drivers are what they are. Extremely selfish, with pedestrians fair targets because they deserve everything they get by walking in the open air.

Where has anyone said or even implied on here that Canberra drivers regard pedestrians as “fair targets” ???

That is just an absurd interpretation & claim.

What ever message (apart from your obvious contempt for car owners, overweight people, anyone who doesn’t use public transport and no doubt, anyone who doesn’t share your views) you try to convey, however well intended, is often lost in these extreme interpretations, assumptions and statements.

I am struck every time I travel anywhere else in Australia, particularly Sydney, how drivers mostly politely stop and let you cross the road.

In Canberra most pedestrians instinctively give cars the right of way on pedestrian crossing because they know it is dangerous to do otherwise. My wife (being Canberran from long back), like you denies this, but I observe that she will not step off onto a pedestrian crossing until all the traffic has passed, rendering the the crossing pointless.

My statements on the behaviour of car drivers and the state of Canberran wastelines is only confirmed simple observation and by the arrogant assumptions made here, that circle round and round and round their “One True Way” blindspot. ie Drive or Die! The Canberra Way!

From my own equally anecdotal evidence, I call BS on this one. I’ve find using a pedestrian crossing here no different to any other Australian city.

rommeldog56 said :

rubaiyat said :

There are plans afoot to surround Vernon Circle with high rise offices and apartments with sufficient gaps to permit southerly gales to form a Dysonesque wind turbine in the centre.

When I questioned the planners as to the traffic, they said they’ll solve that with “Traffic Calming” ie 40km speed limit. Nothing like the combination of Canberra Road Rage mixed in with pedestrians trying to cut across this new pointy Town Square (ignoring the shape as well as the climate and orientation).

Excellent planning that.

Stuff up the traffic flow on Northborne Ave even more by increasing density along it (something identified that would in the ACT Govt’s own EIS), then when/if traffic clears Civic and gets onto Vernon circle, slow it down to 40kph so its even harder and takes longer to clear through Civic.

Yep – makes perfect sense. Now, I wonder if that will clog the city with traffic ? No, surely not……

This plan sounds horrible, like a plan to make it look like it just ‘sprung up.’ Ugh, they are vandalising our town through planning! (which makes me suspect Mr Barr comes from Melbourne). We do NOT want Melbourne here.
And I utterly, vehemently, detest traffic ‘calming’. If they do this, it will be yet another reason to avoid Civic. I already avoid Anketell Street Tuggeranong and various other roads around the traps, though of course the hoons love the speed bumps and make adjacent residents’ life hell. Unfortunately I cannot avoid the speed bump at the end of my street [‘Not Happy Jan Face’]

rubaiyat said :

gooterz said :

If you want highrise move to Sydney. Maybe Barr would be happier there.

Not everyone is you.

The large number of apartments being sold here, not just in the Inner City but out at the regional townships, puts the lie to that. Even brand new Wright and Coombs are lined with apartments. You can not continue urban sprawl for ever. Even if you could, you end up with non cities like Los Angeles.

The only thing worse than the Government’s poor planning is the total lack of any rational forward thinking by most of Canberra’s citizens.

Canberra will continue to grow, as it always, has and the problems that arise from that are much more expensive to fix, if they ever will, after the growth has happened.

I’d like to know who is buying those appartments ? How many are being bought by Canberrans? How many are investment/rentals? How many are being bought by overseas interests? How many are actually going to be someone’s home, where they will live & be committed to this community?

What I see is not encouraging for a beautiful bush capital. Nor for a welcoming living environment.

It seems the plot has been lost. Apart from being a place where people work to scratch out a living, it also needs to be a place for people to live, love, exercise, raise families etc.

If we continue to just watch the single bottom line & be so incredibly narrow in our focus, we may as well not play the game at all – the light is just not worth the candle!

The city & the economy are there to serve the community, not vice-versa!

gooterz said :

Perhaps we need a tram to connect east and west civic.
Canberra does not have one city but 4.

If Barr ever ventured south or west he’d soon see signs saying city pointing to belconnen tuggeranong and woden.

So much waste. If you want highrise move to Sydney. Maybe Barr would be happier there.

Oh You Just Said It !! Would someone also please tell Ross Solley – he seems to have forgotten the basic ACT plan too. The fact that Canberra was never designed to have a central CBD is one of its unique design features. Many think it is a very special & worthwhile feature. If the powers that be wish to change that, then I think it should be done in the open, not by stealth.
If the Assembly could just remember all four City Centres for a while it would really help. However, I do understand that watching more than one thing at a time is difficult for them . . .

rubaiyat said :

Paul Costigan said :

..and most of it does not address climate change.

Can you show me ANY that does?

The whole of the brand spanking new Molonglo does not and also doesn’t even have a transport plan beyond pouring more cars into the existing roads.

Not green wash, its bleedin’ obvious eyewash.

I’ve just inspected a range of the new developments in Kingston which has ample space to raise the density but do it with quality and good planning. None of those are evident. What is evident is bad design, open space consumed, greed dictating that units are badly laid out and crammed in to the max, with no-one getting any sunshine, let alone the winter sunshine that should be every Canberran’s birthright.

Units now have internal bedrooms with no windows!

Same old, same old Stupid with a capital $ all to benefit a small bunch of people getting rich so they can live somewhere else, better.

YES! YES! YES!

rommeldog56 said :

Nilrem said :

And there’s the tragedy of Canberran democracy!

There is nothing wrong with “democracy” in Canberra.

There is a minority Government (that has been put into power by an assist by the ACT Greens – who have in essence, corrupted their “independence” and policy stances by accepting a Ministership in the ACT Labor Gov’t), a minority Gov’t that refused to produced costings and revenue projections to support their claim that the avg 10%pa increase in Annual Rates over 20+ years (now forever) would be “Revenue Neutral” (subsequent ACT appropriation bills show that was a lie !), a minority Gov’t that is plowing ahead with light rail and breaching their 2012 election undertakings to spend $x only on related pre planning (a figure that was blown out of the water by actual $ spent) – including not disclosing that they intended to start construction prior to the 2016 election….etc….etc.

The real “tragedy of Canberran democracy” is that ACT voters and ratepayers put up with this…….

YES! Thank you rommeldog56 for looking to that slightly deeper level and expresing it

rubaiyat said :

The typically false logic here is that because something is done badly in one instance the principle is bad.

While the principle may not be bad, execution of the Urban Village (whatever that means) will e done by the same people who did Bunda Street. The precedent is ominous.

rubaiyat said :

Bunda Street was done on the cheap (design wise) but no doubt cost an absolute fortune to build.

And, for the same reason as above, why would anyone expect the “Urban Village” to be different?

Nilrem said :

crackerpants said :

rubaiyat said :

Nilrem said :

Like the spectacularly successful traffic calming measures on the Bunda Street “Shareway”? What a joke. How long before someone gets skittled there?

Well Canberra drivers are what they are. Extremely selfish, with pedestrians fair targets because they deserve everything they get by walking in the open air.

Shared ways can be done very well and can really transform a downtown urban area. The two best examples I have seen are Britamart in Auckland and the Claremont Quarter in Perth.

But of course neither are EXACTLY Canberra so should be ignored.

I know I’ve said this before, but rubaiyat, must you really be quite so rude? Please remember your manners. I agree with so much of what you say, but by constantly vilifying cars and the people who drive them, you alienate people – people that would otherwise be sympathetic with your views.

I’m not obese, I’m not clogging up hospitals, I’m not knocking down pedestrians for sport – I’m a pedestrian too! But I do need to drive a car – yes, need. I don’t think I should be constantly apologising for being a wicked human being because I need a car to get us all from A to B to C to D then back home again.

Hang, on I don’t think this post vilifies all car drivers. It is directed at a group of participants on this forum.

For the record, I drive a car sometimes. There are times when no other option is practical, particularly when juggling kids and work and tight timeframes. But I also appreciate the serious problems with an overly-car focussed persepctive in Canberra’s urban planning, and why this needs to change. Being stuck on Northbourne Avenue at peak hour does this.

crackerpants said :

rubaiyat said :

Nilrem said :

Like the spectacularly successful traffic calming measures on the Bunda Street “Shareway”? What a joke. How long before someone gets skittled there?

Well Canberra drivers are what they are. Extremely selfish, with pedestrians fair targets because they deserve everything they get by walking in the open air.

Shared ways can be done very well and can really transform a downtown urban area. The two best examples I have seen are Britamart in Auckland and the Claremont Quarter in Perth.

But of course neither are EXACTLY Canberra so should be ignored.

I know I’ve said this before, but rubaiyat, must you really be quite so rude? Please remember your manners. I agree with so much of what you say, but by constantly vilifying cars and the people who drive them, you alienate people – people that would otherwise be sympathetic with your views.

I’m not obese, I’m not clogging up hospitals, I’m not knocking down pedestrians for sport – I’m a pedestrian too! But I do need to drive a car – yes, need. I don’t think I should be constantly apologising for being a wicked human being because I need a car to get us all from A to B to C to D then back home again.

Hang, on I don’t think this post vilifies all car drivers. It is directed at a group of participants on this forum.

crackerpants said :

rubaiyat said :

Nilrem said :

Like the spectacularly successful traffic calming measures on the Bunda Street “Shareway”? What a joke. How long before someone gets skittled there?

Well Canberra drivers are what they are. Extremely selfish, with pedestrians fair targets because they deserve everything they get by walking in the open air.

Shared ways can be done very well and can really transform a downtown urban area. The two best examples I have seen are Britamart in Auckland and the Claremont Quarter in Perth.

But of course neither are EXACTLY Canberra so should be ignored.

I know I’ve said this before, but rubaiyat, must you really be quite so rude? Please remember your manners. I agree with so much of what you say, but by constantly vilifying cars and the people who drive them, you alienate people – people that would otherwise be sympathetic with your views.

I’m not obese, I’m not clogging up hospitals, I’m not knocking down pedestrians for sport – I’m a pedestrian too! But I do need to drive a car – yes, need. I don’t think I should be constantly apologising for being a wicked human being because I need a car to get us all from A to B to C to D then back home again.

If you are a considerate, slim, thinking and civic minded citizen then that is obviously not you, so you need not take umbrage. But look around you, see anyone who does fit the bil?

I am being blunt, because it so hard to get through the “That’s the way it is, and that’s the way it has to be” here.

What’s your opinion on the disparagement of the “Fart sniffing hipsters” labels put on those who would like to see rational change?

Rocking the boat is always seen as “rude”.

“Those” people should just shut up and take it. Sure suits those who want no change and certainly won’t broker it coming up in conversation.

rubaiyat said :

Nilrem said :

Like the spectacularly successful traffic calming measures on the Bunda Street “Shareway”? What a joke. How long before someone gets skittled there?

Well Canberra drivers are what they are. Extremely selfish, with pedestrians fair targets because they deserve everything they get by walking in the open air.

Shared ways can be done very well and can really transform a downtown urban area. The two best examples I have seen are Britamart in Auckland and the Claremont Quarter in Perth.

But of course neither are EXACTLY Canberra so should be ignored.

I know I’ve said this before, but rubaiyat, must you really be quite so rude? Please remember your manners. I agree with so much of what you say, but by constantly vilifying cars and the people who drive them, you alienate people – people that would otherwise be sympathetic with your views.

I’m not obese, I’m not clogging up hospitals, I’m not knocking down pedestrians for sport – I’m a pedestrian too! But I do need to drive a car – yes, need. I don’t think I should be constantly apologising for being a wicked human being because I need a car to get us all from A to B to C to D then back home again.

rommeldog56 said :

rubaiyat said :

Well Canberra drivers are what they are. Extremely selfish, with pedestrians fair targets because they deserve everything they get by walking in the open air.

Where has anyone said or even implied on here that Canberra drivers regard pedestrians as “fair targets” ???

That is just an absurd interpretation & claim.

What ever message (apart from your obvious contempt for car owners, overweight people, anyone who doesn’t use public transport and no doubt, anyone who doesn’t share your views) you try to convey, however well intended, is often lost in these extreme interpretations, assumptions and statements.

I am struck every time I travel anywhere else in Australia, particularly Sydney, how drivers mostly politely stop and let you cross the road.

In Canberra most pedestrians instinctively give cars the right of way on pedestrian crossing because they know it is dangerous to do otherwise. My wife (being Canberran from long back), like you denies this, but I observe that she will not step off onto a pedestrian crossing until all the traffic has passed, rendering the the crossing pointless.

My statements on the behaviour of car drivers and the state of Canberran wastelines is only confirmed simple observation and by the arrogant assumptions made here, that circle round and round and round their “One True Way” blindspot. ie Drive or Die! The Canberra Way!

dungfungus said :

rubaiyat said :

Nilrem said :

Like the spectacularly successful traffic calming measures on the Bunda Street “Shareway”? What a joke. How long before someone gets skittled there?

Well Canberra drivers are what they are. Extremely selfish, with pedestrians fair targets because they deserve everything they get by walking in the open air.

Shared ways can be done very well and can really transform a downtown urban area. The two best examples I have seen are Britamart in Auckland and the Claremont Quarter in Perth.

But of course neither are EXACTLY Canberra so should be ignored.

We have a shared way in Bunda Street which you appear to be unaware of.
Perhaps you can visit it and rate it given your expertise in these matters.

How did I indicate that I was unaware of Bunda Street?

The typically false logic here is that because something is done badly in one instance the principle is bad.

Bunda Street was barely changed from the street it was before with just a couple of VERY subtle speed humps that don’t really indicate it is no longer the street that it was. Canberra’s impatient and inconsiderate drivers, who seem to have the attitude that their failure to get out of their vehicles, is actually a mark of high achievement, treat the changes to Bunda Street as a nuisance and try and force their way against the pedestrians which they do everywhere in Canberra, even the pedestrian crossings.

Both the Claremont Quarter, which is particularly beautifully done and Britomart use quality and varied paving and landscaped parking bays broken up into an irregular line so it is clear this is primarily a pedestrian area but with the semi-oblique access, cars are permitted on condition of good behaviour.

Bunda Street was done on the cheap (design wise) but no doubt cost an absolute fortune to build.

rubaiyat said :

Nilrem said :

Like the spectacularly successful traffic calming measures on the Bunda Street “Shareway”? What a joke. How long before someone gets skittled there?

Well Canberra drivers are what they are. Extremely selfish, with pedestrians fair targets because they deserve everything they get by walking in the open air.

Shared ways can be done very well and can really transform a downtown urban area. The two best examples I have seen are Britamart in Auckland and the Claremont Quarter in Perth.

But of course neither are EXACTLY Canberra so should be ignored.

I wish we did have a shareway that transformed Bunda Street. At the moment we have a half-baked measure that has made the area more dangerous for pedestrians.

wildturkeycanoe said :

So turning Northbourne Ave southbound into a dead end will do what exactly to the traffic heading to the parliamentary triangle? I cannot believe the idiocy of wanting more and more high rise and tgen calling it a “villiage”. Do they know what the word means? Modern highrise and landscaping do not go hand in hand. Once a tram takes up the last bit of green space in the corridor, there is nothing left of the bush in Caberra’s centre.
Instead of turning the vital arterial road from Sydney into a shared pedestrian zone, with traffic having to detour across the path of the tram and onto the GDE, build some foot bridges over Northbourne. They can even go between the new multi storey skyscrapers at a ridiculous height for a touristy feature. Continue the theme of Skyfire and Skywhale with a Skybridge.
Messing up traffic flow on Northbourne will only further impact on the declining patronage of shops in this transit corridor.

Sure, because those people that use Northbourne to get from North Canberra to the south and vice versa currently just pop into the city for some shopping or a drink.

rubaiyat said :

Nilrem said :

Like the spectacularly successful traffic calming measures on the Bunda Street “Shareway”? What a joke. How long before someone gets skittled there?

Well Canberra drivers are what they are. Extremely selfish, with pedestrians fair targets because they deserve everything they get by walking in the open air.

Shared ways can be done very well and can really transform a downtown urban area. The two best examples I have seen are Britamart in Auckland and the Claremont Quarter in Perth.

But of course neither are EXACTLY Canberra so should be ignored.

We have a shared way in Bunda Street which you appear to be unaware of.
Perhaps you can visit it and rate it given your expertise in these matters.

rubaiyat said :

There are plans afoot to surround Vernon Circle with high rise offices and apartments with sufficient gaps to permit southerly gales to form a Dysonesque wind turbine in the centre.

When I questioned the planners as to the traffic, they said they’ll solve that with “Traffic Calming” ie 40km speed limit. Nothing like the combination of Canberra Road Rage mixed in with pedestrians trying to cut across this new pointy Town Square (ignoring the shape as well as the climate and orientation).

Excellent planning that.

Stuff up the traffic flow on Northborne Ave even more by increasing density along it (something identified that would in the ACT Govt’s own EIS), then when/if traffic clears Civic and gets onto Vernon circle, slow it down to 40kph so its even harder and takes longer to clear through Civic.

Yep – makes perfect sense. Now, I wonder if that will clog the city with traffic ? No, surely not……

rubaiyat said :

Well Canberra drivers are what they are. Extremely selfish, with pedestrians fair targets because they deserve everything they get by walking in the open air.

Where has anyone said or even implied on here that Canberra drivers regard pedestrians as “fair targets” ??? That is just an absurd interpretation & claim.

What ever message (apart from your obvious contempt for car owners, overweight people, anyone who doesn’t use public transport and no doubt, anyone who doesn’t share your views) you try to convey, however well intended, is often lost in these extreme interpretations, assumptions and statements.

rubaiyat said :

gooterz said :

If you want highrise move to Sydney. Maybe Barr would be happier there.

Not everyone is you.

The large number of apartments being sold here, not just in the Inner City but out at the regional townships, puts the lie to that. Even brand new Wright and Coombs are lined with apartments. You can not continue urban sprawl for ever. Even if you could, you end up with non cities like Los Angeles.

The only thing worse than the Government’s poor planning is the total lack of any rational forward thinking by most of Canberra’s citizens.

Canberra will continue to grow, as it always, has and the problems that arise from that are much more expensive to fix, if they ever will, after the growth has happened.

Agree 100%. High rise apartments work in Sydney and will work in Canberra. It’s the horrendous sprawl that is western Sydney that Canberra shouldn’t emulate.

Nilrem said :

Like the spectacularly successful traffic calming measures on the Bunda Street “Shareway”? What a joke. How long before someone gets skittled there?

Well Canberra drivers are what they are. Extremely selfish, with pedestrians fair targets because they deserve everything they get by walking in the open air.

Shared ways can be done very well and can really transform a downtown urban area. The two best examples I have seen are Britamart in Auckland and the Claremont Quarter in Perth.

But of course neither are EXACTLY Canberra so should be ignored.

HiddenDragon said :

On a point of detail, does “artist’s impression” software only produce white people? couldn’t we have rainbow colours for our fantasy plaza???

I was thinking the same thing. The people creep me out. Is it suggesting we will be come a ghost town with this new development?

Are they using the word “urban village” just to confuse us all in hopes we’ll just allow it? What is an urban village? Shops? parks? I don’t understand.. and won’t the plaza just make traffic even worse? So confused.

Also did anyone else notice the images released have the light rail behind trees so you can see all the cabling?

rubaiyat said :

Dreadnaught1905 said :

rubaiyat said :

Hope it will work, but aren’t these the people that caused the problem in the first place, …and good luck with getting anybody wanting be near all the cars and traffic!

There is a reason nearly all the shopfronts along Northbourne and the bus terminus are all painted up and devoid of life.
…

I think there could be a case for pushing all of the southbound traffic around the proposed ‘plaza’ development. If the main thoroughfare was changed to push traffic down Cooyong or Barry drive and onto Constitution Avenue or Edinburgh Avenue (or something along those lines) it might improve traffic flow.

I agree that the end of Northbourne Avenue, and especially the London Circuit Intersection is ugly and car-dominated. Perhaps building this plaza could also mean that the lovely grassed area inside vernon circuit could be used as more accessible parkland?

Although this entire concept might mean that people might have to park an additional 3 minute walk from their destination in the city. I’m not entirely sure that the voting public in Canberra would accept that…

Here we have the result of the NCDC “Vision Splendid”.

They came, they saw, and they turned City Hill into a massive Traffic Island circled by high speed traffic.

Those who suggest City Hill be converted into improved parkland seriously need to actually get out of their cars, although given their now generous proportions that may prove difficult. It is quite a climb to the top and there is nowhere you would want to settle to smell the fumes. Even though there are a few hardy souls who overnight there on a permanent basis.

Typically the latest batch of ACT Planners have dismissed topography and climate as the subjects they skipped in year 2. There are plans afoot to surround Vernon Circle with high rise offices and apartments with sufficient gaps to permit southerly gales to form a Dysonesque wind turbine in the centre.

When I questioned the planners as to the traffic, they said they’ll solve that with “Traffic Calming” ie 40km speed limit. Nothing like the combination of Canberra Road Rage mixed in with pedestrians trying to cut across this new pointy Town Square (ignoring the shape as well as the climate and orientation).

Like the spectacularly successful traffic calming measures on the Bunda Street “Shareway”? What a joke. How long before someone gets skittled there?

gooterz said :

If you want highrise move to Sydney. Maybe Barr would be happier there.

Not everyone is you.

The large number of apartments being sold here, not just in the Inner City but out at the regional townships, puts the lie to that. Even brand new Wright and Coombs are lined with apartments. You can not continue urban sprawl for ever. Even if you could, you end up with non cities like Los Angeles.

The only thing worse than the Government’s poor planning is the total lack of any rational forward thinking by most of Canberra’s citizens.

Canberra will continue to grow, as it always, has and the problems that arise from that are much more expensive to fix, if they ever will, after the growth has happened.

So turning Northbourne Ave southbound into a dead end will do what exactly to the traffic heading to the parliamentary triangle? I cannot believe the idiocy of wanting more and more high rise and tgen calling it a “villiage”. Do they know what the word means? Modern highrise and landscaping do not go hand in hand. Once a tram takes up the last bit of green space in the corridor, there is nothing left of the bush in Caberra’s centre.
Instead of turning the vital arterial road from Sydney into a shared pedestrian zone, with traffic having to detour across the path of the tram and onto the GDE, build some foot bridges over Northbourne. They can even go between the new multi storey skyscrapers at a ridiculous height for a touristy feature. Continue the theme of Skyfire and Skywhale with a Skybridge.
Messing up traffic flow on Northbourne will only further impact on the declining patronage of shops in this transit corridor.

rubaiyat said :

Dreadnaught1905 said :

rubaiyat said :

Hope it will work, but aren’t these the people that caused the problem in the first place, …and good luck with getting anybody wanting be near all the cars and traffic!

There is a reason nearly all the shopfronts along Northbourne and the bus terminus are all painted up and devoid of life.
…

I think there could be a case for pushing all of the southbound traffic around the proposed ‘plaza’ development. If the main thoroughfare was changed to push traffic down Cooyong or Barry drive and onto Constitution Avenue or Edinburgh Avenue (or something along those lines) it might improve traffic flow.

I agree that the end of Northbourne Avenue, and especially the London Circuit Intersection is ugly and car-dominated. Perhaps building this plaza could also mean that the lovely grassed area inside vernon circuit could be used as more accessible parkland?

Although this entire concept might mean that people might have to park an additional 3 minute walk from their destination in the city. I’m not entirely sure that the voting public in Canberra would accept that…

Here we have the result of the NCDC “Vision Splendid”.

They came, they saw, and they turned City Hill into a massive Traffic Island circled by high speed traffic.

Those who suggest City Hill be converted into improved parkland seriously need to actually get out of their cars, although given their now generous proportions that may prove difficult. It is quite a climb to the top and there is nowhere you would want to settle to smell the fumes. Even though there are a few hardy souls who overnight there on a permanent basis.

Typically the latest batch of ACT Planners have dismissed topography and climate as the subjects they skipped in year 2. There are plans afoot to surround Vernon Circle with high rise offices and apartments with sufficient gaps to permit southerly gales to form a Dysonesque wind turbine in the centre.

When I questioned the planners as to the traffic, they said they’ll solve that with “Traffic Calming” ie 40km speed limit. Nothing like the combination of Canberra Road Rage mixed in with pedestrians trying to cut across this new pointy Town Square (ignoring the shape as well as the climate and orientation).

“……..to smell the fumes.”
Just ignore them and they will go away.

Dreadnaught1905 said :

rubaiyat said :

Hope it will work, but aren’t these the people that caused the problem in the first place, …and good luck with getting anybody wanting be near all the cars and traffic!

There is a reason nearly all the shopfronts along Northbourne and the bus terminus are all painted up and devoid of life.
…

I think there could be a case for pushing all of the southbound traffic around the proposed ‘plaza’ development. If the main thoroughfare was changed to push traffic down Cooyong or Barry drive and onto Constitution Avenue or Edinburgh Avenue (or something along those lines) it might improve traffic flow.

I agree that the end of Northbourne Avenue, and especially the London Circuit Intersection is ugly and car-dominated. Perhaps building this plaza could also mean that the lovely grassed area inside vernon circuit could be used as more accessible parkland?

Although this entire concept might mean that people might have to park an additional 3 minute walk from their destination in the city. I’m not entirely sure that the voting public in Canberra would accept that…

I like your idea, it seems to be the missing part of the puzzle.

Just a sober reminder to all of Canberra: this Andrew Barr fellow is the guy who was so certain the pile of popup containers – completely and utterly dead in the middle of January! – was going to be an “urban experience success” that he blew a million dollars of our hard-earned on it. Don’t listen to him!

Dreadnaught1905 said :

rubaiyat said :

Hope it will work, but aren’t these the people that caused the problem in the first place, …and good luck with getting anybody wanting be near all the cars and traffic!

There is a reason nearly all the shopfronts along Northbourne and the bus terminus are all painted up and devoid of life.
…

I think there could be a case for pushing all of the southbound traffic around the proposed ‘plaza’ development. If the main thoroughfare was changed to push traffic down Cooyong or Barry drive and onto Constitution Avenue or Edinburgh Avenue (or something along those lines) it might improve traffic flow.

I agree that the end of Northbourne Avenue, and especially the London Circuit Intersection is ugly and car-dominated. Perhaps building this plaza could also mean that the lovely grassed area inside vernon circuit could be used as more accessible parkland?

Although this entire concept might mean that people might have to park an additional 3 minute walk from their destination in the city. I’m not entirely sure that the voting public in Canberra would accept that…

Here we have the result of the NCDC “Vision Splendid”.

They came, they saw, and they turned City Hill into a massive Traffic Island circled by high speed traffic.

Those who suggest City Hill be converted into improved parkland seriously need to actually get out of their cars, although given their now generous proportions that may prove difficult. It is quite a climb to the top and there is nowhere you would want to settle to smell the fumes. Even though there are a few hardy souls who overnight there on a permanent basis.

Typically the latest batch of ACT Planners have dismissed topography and climate as the subjects they skipped in year 2. There are plans afoot to surround Vernon Circle with high rise offices and apartments with sufficient gaps to permit southerly gales to form a Dysonesque wind turbine in the centre.

When I questioned the planners as to the traffic, they said they’ll solve that with “Traffic Calming” ie 40km speed limit. Nothing like the combination of Canberra Road Rage mixed in with pedestrians trying to cut across this new pointy Town Square (ignoring the shape as well as the climate and orientation).

From the OP :

” The Government’s City and Gateway Urban Renewal Strategy was designed to turn Northbourne Avenue into a tree-lined boulevard that would form a fitting entrance for a national capital as well as incorporating developments to meet community needs.”

A “fitting enterence” that will be dominated by high rise concrete monstrosities the closer u get to Civic. Great.

So, costings have not been released. I can not wait to see the infrastructure costs of this and an explanation of how this “Urban Village” (a cute term !) vision will delay the expansion of the Tram to other parts of Canberra. As I recall, already the Tram isn’t slated to extend to Tuggeranong for well over a decade – maybe longer.

The same sort of “Urban Village” development should be able to be achieved with a much cheaper Rapid Buss Transit system instead of the mega expensive Tram.

From the OP :

“The buildings should be impressive and the landscaping should be beautiful. It should also be uniquely Canberra, reflecting our position as the world’s most liveable city and as the bush capital. It should reflect our determination to continue to come of age as a modern, international city and our determination not to become another traffic-choked city like Sydney,”

Hahaha…….the “bush capital” – full of concrete high rises ? The high rises should be “mpressive buildings” – who ever envisages that needs to have a look at the high rise buildings going up in Canberra now – many (but not all) are pig ugly, lack aesthetics and green credentials, not to mention quality of construction.

But Sydney has 6+ million residents – how can Canberra possible become as traffic clogged as that ! Give us a break with the spin.

I think Canberra needs to “grow up” and “modenise” by getting rid of a Government that clearly can not write cheques for their vision – except by tapping into ACT Ratepayers and taxpayers even more than they are !

PS : Who’s tipping a “congestion tax” on ACT vehicles – or even a toll road bypassing the new “Urban Villages” and Civic ?

The volume of traffic on Northbourne Avenue is surely one of the reasons that the Sydney and Melbourne Buildings have yet to enjoy the renaissance which many Canberrans would wish for them, but clearly not the only reason – otherwise, things would presumably be looking better on all the other sides of those buildings.

Similarly, if the issue is about having sufficient numbers of people living within easy walking distance (and not involving crossing a big, scary road like Northbourne….) of those buildings, why hasn’t the proliferation of nearby apartments in the last decade, or so, provided the magic bullet?

Rather than wasting time with this window-dressing, it would be simpler and more honest for the ACT Government to say “we need to get as much money as we can out of redeveloping Northbourne, and there’s going to be lots of high rise – so get used to it.”

On a point of detail, does “artist’s impression” software only produce white people? couldn’t we have rainbow colours for our fantasy plaza???

Nilrem said :

And there’s the tragedy of Canberran democracy!

There is nothing wrong with “democracy” in Canberra.

There is a minority Government (that has been put into power by an assist by the ACT Greens – who have in essence, corrupted their “independence” and policy stances by accepting a Ministership in the ACT Labor Gov’t), a minority Gov’t that refused to produced costings and revenue projections to support their claim that the avg 10%pa increase in Annual Rates over 20+ years (now forever) would be “Revenue Neutral” (subsequent ACT appropriation bills show that was a lie !), a minority Gov’t that is plowing ahead with light rail and breaching their 2012 election undertakings to spend $x only on related pre planning (a figure that was blown out of the water by actual $ spent) – including not disclosing that they intended to start construction prior to the 2016 election….etc….etc.

The real “tragedy of Canberran democracy” is that ACT voters and ratepayers put up with this…….

Perhaps we need a tram to connect east and west civic.
Canberra does not have one city but 4.

If Barr ever ventured south or west he’d soon see signs saying city pointing to belconnen tuggeranong and woden.

So much waste. If you want highrise move to Sydney. Maybe Barr would be happier there.

Northbourne is pretty busy, especially at peak ties. What happens to all the traffic if they shrink the road by building wide footpaths?

What is the plaza exactly?

Dreadnaught1905 said :

rubaiyat said :

Hope it will work, but aren’t these the people that caused the problem in the first place, …and good luck with getting anybody wanting be near all the cars and traffic!

There is a reason nearly all the shopfronts along Northbourne and the bus terminus are all painted up and devoid of life.
…

I think there could be a case for pushing all of the southbound traffic around the proposed ‘plaza’ development. If the main thoroughfare was changed to push traffic down Cooyong or Barry drive and onto Constitution Avenue or Edinburgh Avenue (or something along those lines) it might improve traffic flow.

I agree that the end of Northbourne Avenue, and especially the London Circuit Intersection is ugly and car-dominated. Perhaps building this plaza could also mean that the lovely grassed area inside vernon circuit could be used as more accessible parkland?

Although this entire concept might mean that people might have to park an additional 3 minute walk from their destination in the city. I’m not entirely sure that the voting public in Canberra would accept that…

And there’s the tragedy of Canberran democracy!

rubaiyat said :

Hope it will work, but aren’t these the people that caused the problem in the first place, …and good luck with getting anybody wanting be near all the cars and traffic!

There is a reason nearly all the shopfronts along Northbourne and the bus terminus are all painted up and devoid of life.
…

I think there could be a case for pushing all of the southbound traffic around the proposed ‘plaza’ development. If the main thoroughfare was changed to push traffic down Cooyong or Barry drive and onto Constitution Avenue or Edinburgh Avenue (or something along those lines) it might improve traffic flow.

I agree that the end of Northbourne Avenue, and especially the London Circuit Intersection is ugly and car-dominated. Perhaps building this plaza could also mean that the lovely grassed area inside vernon circuit could be used as more accessible parkland?

Although this entire concept might mean that people might have to park an additional 3 minute walk from their destination in the city. I’m not entirely sure that the voting public in Canberra would accept that…

Someone has been spiking the water bottles in London Circuit with fairy dust, methinks.
There used to be a Manuka Village I think, what happened to it?

Paul Costigan said :

..and most of it does not address climate change.

Can you show me ANY that does?

The whole of the brand spanking new Molonglo does not and also doesn’t even have a transport plan beyond pouring more cars into the existing roads.

Not green wash, its bleedin’ obvious eyewash.

I’ve just inspected a range of the new developments in Kingston which has ample space to raise the density but do it with quality and good planning. None of those are evident. What is evident is bad design, open space consumed, greed dictating that units are badly laid out and crammed in to the max, with no-one getting any sunshine, let alone the winter sunshine that should be every Canberran’s birthright.

Units now have internal bedrooms with no windows!

Same old, same old Stupid with a capital $ all to benefit a small bunch of people getting rich so they can live somewhere else, better.

Having a look at the proposed development images it’s interesting to note that there isn’t actually a lot of rezoning required for this ‘new’ plan. Most of the areas along Northbourne, Macarthur etc are already zoned for high density residential, consistent with this proposal. The only real change is some additional high density areas in Downer and maybe some increases in height/density and a shift to more mixed use around the tram stops.

I like the proposal to reinvigorate the parklands/creek. These are currently underutilised and could do with a bit of a spruce up.

Hope it will work, but aren’t these the people that caused the problem in the first place, …and good luck with getting anybody wanting be near all the cars and traffic!

There is a reason nearly all the shopfronts along Northbourne and the bus terminus are all painted up and devoid of life.

Look forward to the coming Dawn of The Autonomous Ride on Mower that will fix everything!

…because you won’t have to drive to drive! [eyeroll]

Mr Barr mentions Urban Villages. Now I regret I don’t really know what he means here.
A refurbed suburb shopping centre with high rise ? or rather more high rise.

I’ll get a word or two in here before the anti-tram lobby gets to dominate.

I have seen earlier versions of the planning for the Northbourne corridor and I have to say the planners are doing a good job. A couple of issues were identified.

These new centres, urban villages, will have an impact on the present suburban shops – something we hope is being considered in the context for the planning for the whole of the inner north.

The more interesting fact that was revealed in one meeting was that the present development codes along each side of the corridor will provide more than enough new residential requirements to more than meet future demands.

This fact indicated clearly was that any further changes to the codes covering the rest of the inner north are not required.

This small bit of information in turn begs the question why the LDA/directorate keeps pushing for even more intense developments (land sales) when it is not required across the whole of the inner north suburbs.

Meanwhile there are presently loads of new housing and redevelopments happening within the inner north – the LDA/directorate should just allow it to happen and not use the Northbourne developments as their fabricated reason for more. And as usual – some of the new stuff is good, much of it is ordinary and most of it does not address climate change.

The real test for the new Northbourne corridor will be whether the good planning effort is followed through to deliver quality or whether the LDA/directorate again allows the development lobby to have its way and deliver loads of unsustainable bland boxes and token green wash.

In the right hands – the new Northbourne Avenue could be a great change – long overdue! Is that being too optimistic given who is the minister for urban development?

I think the Plaza is a step in the right direction. At present Northbourne Avenue chops the city in two, undermining any attempt to make the City a more welcoming environment.