The Hughes Shooting

I think it is pretty clear he was killed with a Mully-nator.

Seeing as we have so many experts gathered I was wondering if forensically a shot gun can linked to a projectile.

PBO “This makes the certificate pretty worthless but interesting at the same time and shows that the Police will lie on paper to suit their own needs.”

Hand guns where also popping up at gun dealers that had destruction certificates. But shame on you for having the gall to question the veracity of the police. I’m surprised they didn’t follow you down the street for an attitude readjustment.

PBO said :

georgesgenitals said :

Definitely a .577 Nitro Express.

Hmmmm, maybe not. That type of round will knock a full grown man off his feet and seeing as it was a twenty year old man (possibly a druggie) firing off two shots in succession he would have been knocked off his feet and the round would have gone through the car. Also, the sound would have been two explosions rather than two shots. And ammunition for that is quite scarce. Who knows, if it was that type of round then the victim did not really stand a chance at all.

That was kinda why I said it – I thought it would amuse people. The .577 was often used by ivory hunters, and packs quite a punch.

BimboGeek said :

After reading all this discussion I’m discovering that the entire ACT is full of gun nuts! I hope none of you guys also take drugs.

Generally not at the same time as playing with guns, thats irresponsible.

After reading all this discussion I’m discovering that the entire ACT is full of gun nuts! I hope none of you guys also take drugs.

ProudTenant said :

PBO said :

I love how the Canberra Times are saying that the car is bullet ridden when there was only two shots fired. To me bullet ridden is more than two bullets.

A shotgun can fire two shots but leave over 700 dents. They are the little ball bearing that make up that particular type of bullet.

But the photo indicates that it was not scattershot as there was not any surrounding damage other than the single hole in the door frame and the hole in the victim.

georgesgenitals said :

PBO said :

Now…. who bet on what weapon?

I bet a 0.410 shotgun firing a solid round.

Definitely a .577 Nitro Express.

Hmmmm, maybe not. That type of round will knock a full grown man off his feet and seeing as it was a twenty year old man (possibly a druggie) firing off two shots in succession he would have been knocked off his feet and the round would have gone through the car. Also, the sound would have been two explosions rather than two shots. And ammunition for that is quite scarce. Who knows, if it was that type of round then the victim did not really stand a chance at all.

CraigT said :

The thing I want to know is this – if it turned out the weapon used in this crime was the same weapon used to kill Colin Winchester – would the Police ever tell us?

Or perhaps that particular weapon has already turned up and been safely disposed-of?

The Police would not tell you at all, in fact, my fathers shotgun which was handed into ACT police during the buyback is currently residing in the police college in Weston even though we have the certificate of destruction. When we questioned them about this they could not give an answer other than it was the only one of its type in Australia and they needed it for reference. This makes the certificate pretty worthless but interesting at the same time and shows that the Police will lie on paper to suit their own needs.

PBO said :

Now…. who bet on what weapon?

I bet a 0.410 shotgun firing a solid round.

Definitely a .577 Nitro Express.

Well, it appears the Police have caught their man and the case may seem to be closed and we may be able to find out what was shot aside from the victim.

Now…. who bet on what weapon?

I bet a 0.410 shotgun firing a solid round.

PBO said :

I love how the Canberra Times are saying that the car is bullet ridden when there was only two shots fired. To me bullet ridden is more than two bullets.

A shotgun can fire two shots but leave over 700 dents. They are the little ball bearing that make up that particular type of bullet.

The thing I want to know is this – if it turned out the weapon used in this crime was the same weapon used to kill Colin Winchester – would the Police ever tell us?

Or perhaps that particular weapon has already turned up and been safely disposed-of?

I still say that we leave the forensics to the police…

But uninformed speculation about subjects on which I have little to no information is the only reason I visit the interwebs.

jimbocool said :

@52 & 54 – surely it’s WWMD – What Would Mully Do?

We are all disturbingly on the same wavelength.

#54, #55 and #57 to spell it out: What Would Horatio Do?

I still say that we leave the forensics to the police as that is what they get paid to do and they dont generally have to refer to WikiForensics to come up with a cool intelligent sounding answer.

If the crime scene was so messy that it looked like some one was masterbating with a stanley knife then maybe we could throw in our two cents, but as it stands, all we know is someone was shot whilst sitting in a car at 12:30 in the morning in an area that is apparently a popular drug drive through.

Since Mully is dead it could be a Massey as they have been far too quiet lately and it is something that they would do.

jimbocool said :

@52 & 54 – surely it’s WWMD – What Would Mully Do?

You beat me to it! I saw the thread and thought the same. 🙂

@52 & 54 – surely it’s WWMD – What Would Mully Do?

dannybear said :

.45 is usually used when you want to kill the person your shooting and not just disable them

When a 9mm bullet to the head just won’t do?

Don’t you mean, WWMD?

@ PBO #52 – WWHD? What Would Hey-soos Do?

sexynotsmart said :

dannybear said :

Looks like a hollow point (to do more damage) .45 APC round shot from a handgun

Does .45 APC mean about half an armoured personnel carrier?

Imagine the size of the clip! The weapon couldn’t be classified as a handgun. How the hell could you even lift it?

I’ve squeezed off more than a few .45 ACP rounds in my time. Most of them on target.

.45 acp is one of the most used handgun calibers even glock makes .45 handguns
.45 is usually used when you want to kill the person your shooting and not just disable them

Thoroughly Smashed said :

Mr Evil said :

Have the prison guards checked to see if David Eastman is still in his cell????

By the look of the bullet damage to the car, I’m guessing the weapon used was a 9mm Uzi. Either that, or a .44 Magnum.

I’m going to go with a 4 bore.

Nah, Judging by the angle of the blah blah blah…in conjunction with the amount of semen found in the chest cavity….. blah blah blah…… one would have to conclude that the weapon was obviously a double barreled, lever action, belt fed, gas operated, spring loaded, pump operated, 155mm water-cooled howitzer with a bi-pod, silencers and a scope.

We are all obviously experts in this field with many hours of training in front of the telly.

For all we know the shooter could have been Justin Beiber, I have recently heard that he got off from killing a prostitute despite a knife, overwhelming DNA evidence and over seven hours of video footage of he and her.
WWHD?

johnboy said :

Well, the fact someone was loitering in their car out the back of Hughes shops at 12.30am was a bit of a giveaway.

I have such an innocent mind! I was initially thinking that they were all going home after a quiet dinner, someone was getting a lift, and they had stopped the car while they wrapped up their conversation. I mean, why else would you be loitering in a car at the end of the evening?

Now I’m hearing about drug deals and gay beats??

Have to say if I was a drug dealer I’d try to choose some place less out in the open than a car park. And if I was gay … oh wait. I have a profile on Pink Sofa. Too easy!

Mr Evil said :

Have the prison guards checked to see if David Eastman is still in his cell????

By the look of the bullet damage to the car, I’m guessing the weapon used was a 9mm Uzi. Either that, or a .44 Magnum.

I’m going to go with a 4 bore.

johnboy said :

Well, the fact someone was loitering in their car out the back of Hughes shops at 12.30am was a bit of a giveaway.

There was also a gay beat in the toilet block, however the toilets were closed over a month ago. So we can safely rule out any chance of the murder being a hate crime.

“He did not dismiss the suggestion that Whittle Street, where the shooting took place, was a popular area for drug deals.”

Every shopping centre car park is a popular place for drug deals.

From the article: “He did not dismiss the suggestion that Whittle Street, where the shooting took place, was a popular area for drug deals.”

I’m not sure wat’s more amusing: the fact that the journalist knew this, or the fact that now everyone does!

bravo, canberra crimes – they reported something before Johnboy did…

vic has been named: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/victim-of-hughes-shooting-named/1827522.aspx

JB must be sleeping in after a heavy night…

Have the prison guards checked to see if David Eastman is still in his cell????

By the look of the bullet damage to the car, I’m guessing the weapon used was a 9mm Uzi. Either that, or a .44 Magnum.

Would an underworld figure really drive a Hyundai?

dannybear said :

Looks like a hollow point (to do more damage) .45 APC round shot from a handgun

Does .45 APC mean about half an armoured personnel carrier?

Imagine the size of the clip! The weapon couldn’t be classified as a handgun. How the hell could you even lift it?

I’ve squeezed off more than a few .45 ACP rounds in my time. Most of them on target.

myrtleville said :

Once you outlaw guns only outlaws have guns.

That’s true, but at the same time having very strict requirements around the ownership and use of firearms means that guns aren’t readily available to Joe Average, and I think that’s a good thing.

Of course it won’t stop a few firearms from making their way into criminal hands, but I suspect it’s harder to get a gun here than, say, the US.

Thoughts?

If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will accidentally shoot their kids.

And,

Support your right to keep and arm bears.

Rawhide Kid No 2 said :

BimboGeek said :

What is with all the weapons floating around Canberra lately? Who even *owns* a gun? It’s not as if they’re for sale at the supermarket!

But but. Little Johnny promised to make the world a safer place by taking all the Gun’s off the street. Didn’t he?

Once you outlaw guns only outlaws have guns.

I now feel that I *know* what an Armchair Horatio is and it is not at all pleasurable.

Whoops!

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Looks like a hollow point (to do more damage) .45 APC round shot from a handgun

LOL. Can your CSI training tells if the gun was held sideways, trigger finger on top, gangsta style? Also, by enhancing the image at the top of this thread, can you see back in time and read the shooter’s lips?

Just what this site needs, Armchair Horatio’s. Whilst yesterday I would have jumped at the chance to experience an Armchair Horatio (sounds dirty and fun), I now reserve my judgement as after reading some of the posts I now feel that I what an Armchair Horatio is and it is not at all pleasurable.

“an you see back in time and read the shooter’s lips?”

I think I see winny blue.

Looks like a hollow point (to do more damage) .45 APC round shot from a handgun

LOL. Can your CSI training tells if the gun was held sideways, trigger finger on top, gangsta style? Also, by enhancing the image at the top of this thread, can you see back in time and read the shooter’s lips?

Gungahlin Al said :

Breathless writing in CT today is a bit much. A ‘hitman’ who misses with the first shot at close range isn’t much of a hitman.

And as for: “The street was woken by the sound of gunshots at close range…” huh?

we need a new category – ‘hit ‘n miss man’..?

Love all the ballistics experts coming out of the woodwork.

dannybear said :

Looks like a hollow point (to do more damage) .45 APC round shot from a handgun

A 0.410 solid would have the same effect from that distance. Lets just wait for what the Police dig out of the victim.

p1 said :

The picture is also worth a look. Any gun nerds want to speculate as to what sort of round would have put that ding in the door frame?

Judging by the fact that it didn’t actually pass through, my guess would be something largish but with a low muzzle velocity. 9mm or larger pistola at close range or a shotgun firing something like a Brenneke slug at greater range.

Actually, this whole shooting really smacks of stupid.

Idiot #1. Someone has illegally sold/supplied this freakshow a gun, even though he/she is the kind of human who goes looking for a gun. So now there’s the risk that your unreliable customer is going to get in trouble and be interviewed by police.

Idiot #2. Someone has apparently organised a hitman, the kind of person who owns a gun and is happy to use it against humans. And expects this person not to get into trouble and interviewed by the police.

Idiot #3. Turns out the shooter doesn’t shoot straight and leaves plenty of witnesses including the two other people in the car and half the street.

The police went straight to Denison Street and retrieved the weapon from under concrete blocks. By this point they already knew a lot about the shooter’s plan, maybe even the shooter’s identity.

I agree, this amount of stupid could only be the work of Zombie Mully.

Rawhide Kid No 2 said :

But but. Little Johnny promised to make the world a safer place by taking all the Gun’s off the street. Didn’t he?

Someone think of the children! There’s a couple of schools in Denison Street, who is protecting them now?

Looks like a hollow point (to do more damage) .45 APC round shot from a handgun

If you ever crossed Mully be very afraid.

But you have to say ‘Mully’ three times in the mirror. Who’d be thick enough to say ‘Mully’ three times? I mean, you’d get to the second ‘Mully’ and f*BLAM*

BimboGeek said :

What is with all the weapons floating around Canberra lately? Who even *owns* a gun? It’s not as if they’re for sale at the supermarket!

But but. Little Johnny promised to make the world a safer place by taking all the Gun’s off the street. Didn’t he?

lol sniffly one.

I think if you ever crossed the guy, you should pat yourself on the back.

It’s a bit fitting the Undergut references, the only difference being in Canberra is we don’t do ‘un’reality tv or tv at all. Even our news is as informative as a witness to a bashing in gaol. But they were just as blind to it in the big states till they plastered it mainstream.

Nah, folks like Mully should watch himself in Hell… They like the pretty boys too! Although, I hear lol.

I love how the Canberra Times are saying that the car is bullet ridden when there was only two shots fired. To me bullet ridden is more than two bullets.

The picture is also worth a look. Any gun nerds want to speculate as to what sort of round would have put that ding in the door frame?

I would suggest you might have been onto the answer yourself JB when you floated the idea of a shotgun slug. Although a truly close range, any of the larger shot may still have been in a small enough pattern to do some thing like that. The police may well be looking for someone who copped a fair bit of rebound.

Although having another look at the picture, the dent isn’t that big, so maybe it is the result of just one peice of buckshot on the edge of the pattern clipped the door frame.

If this was CSI, they could use a laser and something in a spray bottle to tell you.

Breathless writing in CT today is a bit much. A ‘hitman’ who misses with the first shot at close range isn’t much of a hitman.

And as for: “The street was woken by the sound of gunshots at close range…” huh?

They won’t catch Mully now he’s back from the dead, evening up old scores.

A sawn-off shotgun has always been my planned weapon for the Zombie Apocalypse. If the zombie Mully is using one, then what should I use?

They won’t catch Mully now he’s back from the dead, evening up old scores. This latest victim once called Mully a tool from the other side of a busy road. If you ever crossed Mully be very afraid.

cranky_sam said :

Underbelly 4 even….. ;-p

muffintop?

Anna Key said :

George said :

At least the shooting happened in the right jurisdiction as nothing will happen to the gunman!

Only in the ACT could you get an execution style manslaughter

Ha, the ACT: We put the ‘laughter’ in manslaughter

A sawn-off shotgun? When I was a kid I was told that a shotgun was sawn-off in order to spray bullets everywhere to kill as many people as possible. So if it was a hit, why did the gunman use a sawn-off and fire twice? I would have thought a professional hit would have involved more precision and a higher grade of arms.

Underbelly 4 even….. ;-p

Underbelly 3?

Oh a good friend of mine gave me this link:
http://www.police.act.gov.au/media-centre/media-releases/act/2010/may/update-shooting-incident-hughes.aspx
Well worth a read.

Two shots from a sawn off shotgun? I’m no expert, but I’m under the impression that with a shotgun you rarely need more than two. Sounds like it was personal (fits in with your thoughts Ian).

While the victim hasn’t been named I see on Win news tonight the police indicated the victim was “known to them”. So it would appear to be a case of self cleansing by the criminal classes.

Thank you Lovechocolatte 🙂

A great sneaking behind police car photo there lol.

Anna Key said :

George said :

At least the shooting happened in the right jurisdiction as nothing will happen to the gunman!

Only in the ACT could you get an execution style manslaughter

Can’t you tell he accidently pulled the trigger and totally didn’t mean to kill him? He must have been pointing the gun at the tree behind him and slipped. The judge and jury are thinking about the not guilty verditct already.

George said :

At least the shooting happened in the right jurisdiction as nothing will happen to the gunman!

Only in the ACT could you get an execution style manslaughter

Hi BimboGeek – there are two classes of gun owners: legal… and illegal. The legal owners do safety training, pass police checks, submit to regular shoots and checks and are supervised. They are licenced and each firearm is registered and locked in approved steel safes. They do as they’re told. The crooks/illegals do as they please. As they always have and always will. Thank God for the police.

What is with all the weapons floating around Canberra lately? Who even *owns* a gun? It’s not as if they’re for sale at the supermarket!

Who would have thought Hughes was “gangsta”?

I live about 200m away from where this happened. Around 1230 there were two loud blasts that could be heard from afar then followed by a man screaming (maybe the victim?) I’d be certain that it was a sawn-off shot gun due to the sound.

There was a fair amount of arguing after the gun shots. About 5 mins after the sirens arrived.

I was amazed about the amount of police around the hughes shops this morning. I could count at least 10 cars and an huge entourage of vans, forensic vehicles, etc.

A neighbour witnessed the shooter escape by an assistant in another vehicle down Groom St.

It is usually a quiet neighbourhood until last night’s event!

At least the shooting happened in the right jurisdiction as nothing will happen to the gunman!

Witness report on ABC radio this morning stated that they heard multiple shots at approx 12.30 am, lots of screaming/shouting then a car leave the scene approx 15 minutes later.

I rode on the cycle path up past the Deakin pool this morning at about 9am. There were at least 10 police there (it looked like it was a staging point, not an actual point of interest) and at least 3 had those long T-piece drain-opening tools at hand. Traffic around the Carruthers St / Denison St intersection was a mess (school time I guess). For a drain search they certainly threw some manpower at it!