advice to cyclists at night

You can call it crap Ralph, but I challenge you to refute one single figure I quoted.

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All sing after me: “and up from the ground came a bubbling – not fossil fuel”.

Umm, oil is what you get after the coal has been left in the ground for a bit longer.

Peat -> Brown Coal -> Black Coal -> Oil & Gas

So why isn’t it a fossil fuel if coal is?

crude oil is not fossil fuel.

like much of the club of rome nonsense that peak oil zealots bang on about as truths, this was discredited many years ago.

coal is fossil fuel.

there is many hundreds of years of coal left.

We may run out of fossil oil, we won’t run out of fuel for powered transport.

Hey Ralph, why can’t we bring up oil again? You got some evidence to suggest that oil will last forever and the burning of it doesn’t pollute the environment. Or do you think a few people riding bikes can’t make a difference???!!! You probably waste paper and water too don’t you mate because who cares eh…..

Don’t bring your crap up about oil again. You just sound silly. Now back to your pedal power meeting.

Yeah Danman, there are no irresponsible car drivers. nice one mate

And here’s a final thought. Oil.

Australia is using more and more of the stuff and at the same time our drills are returning less and less of the stuff. 541 thousand barrels a day used versus 960 consumed (see link below). That gap is going to keep increasing and we will have to borrow more and more or produce a hell of a lot of other exports to make up the growing difference.

America used to be a net exporter of oil, but due to their cheap petrol prices and flagrant use of oil they are now in the uneviable position of only producing 1/4 of their 20million barrels of day oil needs. American cities have been built with the assumption that the only form of transport will be the private motor vehicle. It’s not easy to break that oil addiction.

And that’s why every city needs to follow the lead of Copenhagen and Amsterdam and do everything conceivably possible to make cycling the most viable option.

So, yes, cyclists sometimes break the law and do annoying things as do car drivers. Cyclists need to take responsibility for their actions. But, the promotion of cycling and increase in bicycle access and sharing of roads is a long term positive step for Canberra and Australia.

Check out the link below re: oil
http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/globalbp/globalbp_uk_english/reports_and_publications/statistical_energy_review_2006/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/pdf/statistical_review_of_world_energy_full_report_2006.pdf

Some idiots have front lights that blink. i do not know why.
As for those blinking lights ? They’re just annoying.

I think the question’s been answered there. Blinking lights are more visible than static ones.

im waiting for a head-on smash between two cycling fools.

I’ve nearly been taken out, head-on by some idiot on a shared path in Dickson. It was rather dark, so I had a headtorch on me – something made me turn it on, and the moment I did a cyclist was headed straight for me, despite me walking down the left side of the path. They managed to swerve.

for the record – i have two tritium kit markers

Those look quite nifty. How bright are they? All the pics I could find online seemed to have a glow photoshopped onto them. Any other issues with their use – being radioactive and all? Perhaps legal issues with local sale or disposal?

if the police want to make a few bob – position yourself on the walking paths that meander through our suburbs at nightfall and prepare to be busy.

Even better, just get somewhere around the busier parts of town and start handing out fines in the day for no helmets – esp. on the roads. Helmets are even cheaper than lights, yet so many people seem to not wear them in this city. Then, lights as well once it gets dark.

Traffic is built up, yet fast moving, people are driving close together, a lot of lane changing going on, and yet left turners need to watch for small/slow cyclists as well.

I have issues with the cyclists who think they are cars

So, here’s where this discussion gets stupid. “Look, drivers are driving badly, driving too close to each other etc – oh and it’s gonna be a bike rider’s fault if we hit one at the time.”

I ride a lot – and I drive a lot. When I’m on the bike, I have all the same rules and rights as a car – with a few small exceptions. It’s about time drivers like you realised that. If you don’t like the law .. this is Canberra – lobby for some changes.

..Or you could just keep shouting and abusing bike riders as you ride past them, never noticing they can’t understand your misguided rant over the noise of your engine anyway.

Also I think if you are going to ride on the road you should pay some sort of road tax. After all I don’t use the cycle paths and I’m still paying for it.

I don’t think cyclists should have to pay rego – they should be encouraged and rewarded for getting off their arse and saving the planet a few greenhouse gas emissions

Not only should cyclists not pay rego, they should be allowed to salary sacrifice push bikes like car drivers can. It’s ridiculous that I could write thousands of dollars off my tax by paying someone to do some accounting on my car’s lease and all other associated costs – motivating me to buy a new car I don’t really need, and drive to when I don’t need to. My bike, keeping the roads emptier, less worn, less polluted, la la la .. I ride it to work, and sometimes even between places of work … no tax saving for me!

Then, there’s the fallacy about exactly how the roads are paid for. I’m pretty sure you’ll find that the roads around my house are maintained by the local council, with the money I give them in rates as a home owner. My car rego basically has nothing to do with it.

30kmh is too fast for most paths and I approach 60 most mornings. Safer on the road.

I have issues with the cyclists who think they are cars – the ones who pull up next to you at the traffic lights, try to cut in front of you to turn a corner, ones who ride on the road and not a path or designated lane. The groups of 4 of 5 riders who ride next to each other – therefore on the road, causing cars to swerve into the other lane to get past them… Commonsense is all some people need…

And hell yeah all you cyclists should have to pay some sort of bike rego – Fair enough most of our rego fee’s are for 3rd party issurance, but the rest of it is for road maintenance, emergency services fee, and road user fees – why should you guys have to pay some of that. Our road maintenance fee’s pay for your bloody bike lanes…

The other thing that pisses me off is the government reducing a perfectly good 3 lane road into 2 lanes – so the outer lane becomes a bike lane. We already had perfectly good bike paths on one side of the road… I am also yet to see anyone use those new bike lanes… Traffic on this road is now rediculous during peek hour traffic, and many cars still not realising the changed traffic conditions. The resurfaced the road and then all of a sudden form one lanes appeared out of no where…

Bikes are legitimate road users, even without the fancy green lanes and cycle lanes, cyclists are legally entitled to ride on the roads. If you find find it impossible to avoid colliding with cyclists when driving, then you should hand in you licence (and get a bike).

I don’t think cyclists should have to pay rego – they should be encouraged and rewarded for getting off their arse and saving the planet a few greenhouse gas emissions (not to mention the health problems caused by the explosion in numbers of overweight people).

Having said that, any cyclists who get around without the right gear are idiots. People don’t realise how invisible they are at night without the right gear. I always ride with a flashing light and reflectors at the back and a good strong headlight at the front, so I can see and be seen.

FFS If we had to put rego plates on push bikes that would just about be the last straw for me in this country. Its all ready the most over governed country on the planet with rules and regulations every where which way we look we don’t need more.

Danman, so its now car and shared pedestrian path bike riders VERSUS road bike riders???!!!!

No – its responsibility vs irresponsibility.

Have you tried telling a dog to stay to the left!

I have a suggestion…..They should be banned from the roads. Putting bicycles with cars that travel at least twice the speed is just asking for problems. Also I think if you are going to ride on the road you should pay some sort of road tax. After all I don’t use the cycle paths and I’m still paying for it.
Maybe the Police should start targeting bike offences.

I guess just to counteract some of this negativity, I’ll once again stress that cycle commuting is not just a positive community activity, it is also incredibly enjoyable, keeps you fit, saves you heaps of money and allows you to enjoy all that is special about Canberra. Try a ride around the lake and hopefully you will understand just how joyous an activity cycling can be.

Now, I’ll stand by for the ‘grumpy old men’ brigade to fire off some cynical remarks.

I cycle commute most days 40kms a day. In my many years of cycle commuting I have long since discovered a bell is completely ineffective in warning pedestrians. Even pedestrians without headphones don’t seem to hear and register a bell. The best thing I have discovered is to, on approach, say loudly the word ‘bike’. Pedestrians usually thank me for the warning as I pass. In exchange, all I ask of pedestrians on the shared paths is they stay left, and keep their dogs to their left and on a leash and supervise children to ensure they do the same. It’s really not that hard.

Ok, I’ll bite on this topic. Again 🙂
I’ll start with the bikes don’t pay rego one first. Most of your rego isn’t for your ticket to use the road, but rather for 3rd party person insurance – that’s because when cars crash they do a lot of damage to 3rd parties (other drivers, pedestrians, cyclists and even the odd day care centre!). Recently it was revealed by Dept of Transport that the costs in injury and death from motor vehicles exceeded rego and other fees. That’s just the direct costs of injury from motor vehicles, without measuring the harm caused from pollution and we haven’t even started to fully understand the impact of CO2 emissions).

It’s to the advantage of our society to have as many people on bikes as possible. A fee may act as a deterrent, and I imagine many casual riders will simply snub their nose at going to the trouble of registering.

That said, us cyclists do want to be recognised as legitimate road users and I’m certainly prepared to pay a fee for that recognition. I’m also prepared to cop it sweet if I get fined for breaking the law.

Turning left – when you normally wouldn’t have to give way at all – you are in fast moving traffic on Commonwealth Ave, you want to turn left – you have to get across a ‘shared bike zone’. If you slammed on the brakes you would get rammed from behind – traffic is busy along there in peak hour.
this is also the time when the serious bike riders are heading in to work – some of them get a bit of speed up. It is a dangerous spot.

When I’m driving around in my little car I don’t usually see bike riders on the roads. When I go to turn off I always check for bike riders, maybe its because when I got my license a couple of years ago that was one of the things they taught you to do. Although it is a pain in the butt having to change your speed in order to turn off and navigate around a bike rider, you should be able to time it properly and adjust your speed so your not slamming your brakes on.

As for those blinking lights ? They’re just annoying.

I don’t know about this debate… I used to do triathlons and it is fun riding on good roads when you have safety precautions. But as for riding on the road in non-competitive manner.. I have to ask myself, would I run amongst a herd of elephants on a march.. probably not.

Danman, so its now car and shared pedestrian path bike riders VERSUS road bike riders???!!!!

I always considered it a great challenge to ride from work at Bruce Stadium back home to yarralumla at 2 in the morning sans lights.

Joggers and other cyclist were generally never a problem, but possums and kangaroos are an interesting obstacle at high speed.

Some of the best fun was the end of the cycle path down from Bruce to O’Connor (no lights, of course) with a very sharp right trun at the bottom – miss that and you are waist deep in a swamp (although probably only ankle deep now with the drought). In winter, the remaining ride home sopping wet was a hypothermic delight!

The other great challeng was the stretch round the lake edge frfom near the Hyatt through to Yarralumla. Evon on a moonless night, star light was usually enough to avoid an unscheduled Lake Burley Griffin dip – and on cloudy nights the refelection of the city lights gave the necessary background glow.

However, the real challenge was the stretches under cover of trees where there are white metal bars sticking out ar the road corssings – straining to follow the faint white line it was sometimes too late that I realised the line had become a waist-high metal rail. The resulting entanglement was oh so satsifying in a brusied and battered way.

Needless to say, the same trip home after a few beers or other recreational indulgences became a laugh and a half.

Oh for the days of youthful stupidity….

So, we are not tapping into the world’s depleting oil supplies, we are not producing harmful emissions, we are reducing noise pollution, and we are reducing traffic queues by not joining them in cars. How selfish!

Not to mention holier than thou.

Im a cyclist – but I must clarify that I am not one of the self righteous elitists.

I ride soley on the shared pedestrian paths and have done so from Ngunnawal to Lyons several times.

Genie, what are you doing that you can’t see these cyclists up ahead until right when you are exiting the road? Its not like a pedestrian jumping out at you because the bike is ahead of you and travelling in the same direction as you.

It’s like you might argue that the person driving in front of you should be found in fault if you run up the back of them. If you need to slam on the brakes then you are at fault unless as you say something comes from the side at you travelling in a different direction.

“my generally low opinion of cyclists as perennial law breakers and selfish individuals is unchanged by their behaviour over the last fortnight.”

So, we are not tapping into the world’s depleting oil supplies, we are not producing harmful emissions, we are reducing noise pollution, and we are reducing traffic queues by not joining them in cars. How selfish!

The true problem is that Humans don’t like others getting ahead of them and that’s what bikes do in peak hour.

As I commented earlier, you’re not going to fix this bike/car problem so bikers just need to remember that no amount of ranting by drivers is going to outweigh the financial, environmental, social and health benefits of cycling over driving.

Astrojax, Have you ever had to brake suddenly exiting a road on a slip lane, where you dont normally have to give way to anyone – Only to spot a cyclist going at less than half your speed ? Its the same as if a pedestrian were to run out in front of your car – Your not going to stop in time… They are death traps – i dread that it may only be a matter of time before some unfortunate accident happens.

Kris – Glad to know some people out there would be willing to give a bike rego a go! And you are right, the cost would be alot less. But still worth it, in the hopes of stopping the minority who abuse the road system.

sorry, but where do cars have to give way to [just] cyclists? in a green lane, the bike is on a roadway onto which the cars coming into it are merging from adjacent roads – don’t you usually have to give way to ALL traffic when coming on to a new roadway?? or did i miss something?

bloody drivers who think THEY are the only ones on the road and anyone else is just a pesky nuisance should have the privilege of driving revoked. bloody.

The previous post was mostly said in jest by the way.

On kids and bike paths: When my 4 year old son rides his bike to the shops, I continually remind him to stay to the left on the bikepath. The problem is that on the way home he can’t understand that the left is now on the other side so he gets angry when I tell him to stay to the left!!

Trying to solve the problems between commuting bicyclists and motor vehicle drivers is like trying to sort out the Jews and the Arabs, or the Catholics and the Protestants.

So you’re the one, justbands. I was so pleasantly surprised on hearing that, thus giving me an idea where the cyclist was heading that I stopped thinking and nearly stepped to the right…

Only the first time though. And that was my own stupidity.

Genie – I’d have no problem paying bike rego (and I already pay for car rego as well, I just prefer to mostly ride than drive). I think just having rego numbers on bikes would be useful so cyclists feel that they can actually be held accountable – and there would be a reduction in the number of cyclists doing really stupid things like running red lights along Northbourne avenue during peak hour.

However, the rego should be in proportion to the amount of wear and tear that a bicycle does to the road compared a car and I’d guess that would only amount to a few dollars a year compared to hundreds for a car.

I’m in favour of the green lanes as far as it encourages people to ride and use less petrol. I won’t be using them tho.

and I think they are in the wrong places – Northbourne Ave, as part of the buslane – insanity.

And some of the ‘shared zones’ are real death traps – Turning left off Commonwealth Ave towards the National Library is one. Traffic is built up, yet fast moving, people are driving close together, a lot of lane changing going on, and yet left turners need to watch for small/slow cyclists as well. There are a lot of pedestrians over the bridge too, and a waist high fence obscuring view, so not easy to notice a bike rider.

Turning left off Northbourne towards Lyneham down Moaut st is another one that I think is dangerous. Cars are trying to nip around in front of oncoming traffic, it is very busy, and drivers dont’ need one more thing to worry about, as in watching for cyclists.

Those the two I notice regularly – I’m sure there are others.

Perhaps Bonfire is yet another created personality like Big Al was – uni student fun…

Comment by Ingeegoodbee — 13 April, 2007 @ 7:10 am

And we can’t help but laugh at you for being so mistaken. Now – on yer bike.

Every time this comes up I can’t help but laugh at the number of people clamouring to tell us all that they are so incompetent behind the wheel that they pose a real threat to other legitimate road users.

Im a driver and i get frustrated when i have to slam my foot on the brakes driving at 80k’s to give way to a bloody bike!!! Seriously who can stop easier – a Car ? or a bike ? Bingo a bike, yet a car is meant to give way to a cyclist.

Yeah yeah blah blah, road safety if a car and bike collide – the cyclist will most likely be badly injured. But why should motorists almost causes accidents braking to give way to a cyclist?? I think people on bikes should give way to the big scary cars!!!

And another point for all the pedal pushers to hate me for – if you wanna use the roads… PAY FOR IT!!!! We pay over $600 to use the roads every year, how about you guys pitch in!!!! Pay a bike rego!!! Its only fair,esp if you expect us to share the roads with you

well it depends on what sort of flasher you are….

I normally use a HID, way too bright for sharing the paths. Flashers are good for being seen, useless for seeing, so only suitable for lit roads. The law only specifies being seen.

bonfire – probably a good idea to have one of those flashing red lights on the back (and maybe front) of your backpack to make yourself a bit more visible and not be reliant on people using their lights.

I’m a cyclist, and also get frustrated at how many cyclists out there don’t use lights or helmets. On dark shared paths pedestrians are also a big problem as often they wear dark clothing and unlike you don’t have reflective strips (and even then bike lights are generally designed to make you visible and not for actually lighting your path).

Around this time of year when lights become necessary I think it’d be a great idea for the police to place someone on the end of the commonwealth ave and kings ave bridges and pick all the cyclists without lighting and helmets. Its a target rich area and it’d pay for itself with all the fines they’d collect. You only need to do it a couple of times for people to get the message.

capitalisation is for softheads.

Oh, and he also has issues with capital letters, for some reason…

I’m starting to wonder if Bonfire’s a very convoluted piece of performance art by someone. From what I can gather from his random postings, he’s a grumpy old bastard, who, judging from his views on women, very rarely gets laid, doesn’t particularly like kids, cyclists, or anybody who isn’t actually him.

Has anybody actually met him in person, so they can enlighten me a bit more about him?

We should adopt south-east asian road rules which dictate, if im bigger than you get out of my way or i will crush you. also the middle of the road acts as a 3rd lane for traffic going in either direction.

I think reversing a spinning outboard up to a sail boat is way more dangerous than cycling at night without lights.

Oh and graffiti is bad unless Bonfire says so.

you are a softhead al.

i saw the video, it was not remotely dangerous. you exaggerate the risk out of all proportion.

otoh cyclists with no lights trying to share an unlit path at night is a recipe for disaster.

i take some measures to ensure im visible.

softhead cyclists take few. over 90% have no lighting at all. 10% have a form of lighting, largely being blinking red lights so THEY are visible from behind.

less than 5% would have a a headlight actually switched on.

as the behaviour is so widespread, im sure theres a reason. maybe pedal power could explain.

a huge waste of money.

pandering to pedal power and their perpetual teat seeking special interest moaning.

This stuff really bothers Bonfire, but lighting fires on petrol fuelled boats and backing up to a bunch of kids with a revving outboard are cool…

cyclists should not be on the road. the sliplane bike paths are hazardous and conceptually do not work, especially ones coming off an 80 zone like hindmarsh.

bikes should always give way to cars no matter what in my opinion. a car should ALWAYS be able to navigate a corner or lane change without having to look out for a bike rider going half their speed.

bike riders who use these faulty systems with impunity to the natural, immutable law that cars have right of way no matter what some road sign or cop says are suicidal gits.

Didn’t the council spend millyons shifting road lanes to make special bike lanes with magic green paint for all the cyclists to use?

Or was that just another waste of money.

yeah i have a small torch hanging off the front of the pack shoulder straps. i use it when i go through underpasses – none of which are lit at night.

i also have an ipod, but its down low so that i can hear my surroundings.

actually, i used the ipod as an emergency light source last week when the torch didnt work (after 6 months of non-use). it was ok for immediate area, but doesnt throw a beam. sort of an electronic illumistick.

i also hate kids and families on these paths. they amble along in both sides of the path oblivious to other people with their shitting dogs running all over the place.

usually not at night however.

If you ride a bike, break the road rules and do not hold a current drivers licence, how do the police charge you with a traffic offence eg. running a red light, not having a light at night, riding across pedestrian crossing rather than dismounting?

“Fair comment VY but what about the trauma suffered by the poor sod that ends up with a cyclist coming though his windscreen? “

That’s a risk you take when you slide in behind the wheel. It’s sad for sure, but not as bad as the cyclist has it. That said, I’d be pretty pissed if an unlit cyclist scratched up the front of the V8.

I gave up on bells when I do my Yerrabi loop because most people have their heads firmly planted in an iPod – therefore negating my incessant ringing of bell.

I also find that people who are willing to share the path are vigilant about staying to the left – and keeping an eye out for forward facing oncoming traffic – in return, as I am quite happy to share with these people – I give them a wide berth.

What shits me to tears is the parents who let their children with training wheels ride ahead – I move to the right lane to go around the oncoming youngster (in wrong oncoming lane mind you), I then have to go back into the left lane becase the youngster has gone back across the lanes to their left lane – same youngster still oblivious to my oncoming (at a reasonable pace , not fast or slow) then swerves back into my lane – at which time I say fuck this and ride to the side of the cycle path – only to get a glaring sneer from the parent on the way past.

Its not the kids fault – but the parent should exercise some responsibility for their childs lack of foresight and judgement – and maybe keep them closer to them in order to control their path a little better.

I dunno – I dont get any grief from any adult peds or fellow cyclists – but in saying so – maybe I am just an impatient prick.

I don’t use a bell, however I do call out “rider on your right!”

I use lights on my bike but I don’t ring my bell to alert pedestrians anymore, as I found that when I did more often than not the idiot pedestrians/joggers would walk/jog straight across in front of me.

Fair comment VY but what about the trauma suffered by the poor sod that ends up with a cyclist coming though his windscreen?

Fundamentally the law is irrelevant in this area. If you don’t make yourself visible, and you get hit by a car, it’s ultimately your problem.

Do you carry a light when you jog? I use lights on my bike.

I think people walking dogs at night should pay attention too.. Almost hit 2 people both dressed in black AND walking a black dog.. and they were even walking down the middle of the street..

Some commonsense people, wear BRIGHTER colours at night time.