Explosion at Belconnen Mall

I was in the mall at the time in a nearby shop (perhaps 20-30 metres away) , and given the reactions of everyone else it appears my response was little strange. I assumed something really heavy fell. That was what it sounded like to me. Even when I walked past the spot a little later I looked up because I assumed something had fallen through the roof.
Even now I have difficulty understanding how it could be cap gun ammunition because it was such a single distinct sound.

LSWCHP said :

I have experience (a fair while ago now admittedly) with HE, claymores, grenades, detcord, ANFO and other explosives. I’ve seen, heard and initiated a lot of explosions. I wasn’t there on the weekend, but I saw the results a few minutes later.

Also, my wife and I are both shooters, and we are both familiar with the sound of large caliber high powered firearms being used in enclosed spaces. Those things are loud, and she said this particular explosion was Very Bloody Loud Indeed. I trust her judgement on this.

So yeah, at wasn’t like an M26 or a Claymore going off, but you’d be wrong to think it was just some caps from a cap gun going “pop”.

Yep. Very similar experiences here, to the point that we would quite likely know the same people.
My experiences range between shooting against Rob Leatham and regular visits to the ABDC. However, consider the differences between semi enclosed, anticipated explosions while wearing hearing protection and enclosed, unanticipated explosions without hearing protection.

Out of context reactions can be quite different.

While I don’t doubt the explosion scared the crap out of everyone there at the time, I have to balance my opinion on some factors which I find personally interesting and which I will share for your consideration.

The Terrorist Hype that we’re slowly moving out of, has concentrated “security” in Australia to those points which historically have never been targeted by terrorism anywhere in the world. Places where the most terrorist activity has been effective is totally ignored.
This makes me wonder if the general public have ever woken up to the level of care that the “Authorities” actually considered towards the person most at risk.

I’ve seen security tightened around government buildings and airlines. When was the last time that you saw a government building on its own soil targetted for terrorism? Police stations in Ulster weren’t exactly on their own soil either.
With the level of “security” on airlines now, how often are they targeted?

Here we have an example of how an unusual level of explosive material was unintentionally detonated in the middle of the almost perfect place to target the general public.
The only thing missing to totally skew the initial thoughts about this was a single combination of factors. It was a small explosion and the guy didn’t walk away from a bag left somewhere.

Had this not been the case, the prevailing mentality would have proceeded to investigate this as a suicide bomber.
Totally devoid of the reality that Australia has no political influence in the world, despite what most people like to think. Despite what the media and “Terrorist experts” like to tell us, there aren’t endless hordes of suicide bombers everywhere either. The risk is greatly overestimated but popular opinion likes to believe that we “have to do something” so that the great unwashed can feel safe in their beds tonight.

So what has actually happened is that this event has pretty well proven some points.

Anyone who really WANTED to kill a lot of Australians only has to walk their bombs into a shopping center food court. If someone can do it totally by accident, the chances of doing it by intention and not getting caught are virtually assured. The effect would target the general public who would be terrorised to a medium extent. (They’re not exactly being targeted in their own houses, such as was done by the Washington Sniper. That was almost a textbook method of low cost, effective terrorisation of the public even though it was a secondary effect.)

So the only conclusion that can be drawn from this is that nobody gives a shit about trying to terrorise Australians on their home soil. The rest of the world hardly knows where we are and we have about as much international political influence as a half eaten bowl of rice pudding.

It also goes to show that while Government agencies feel happy to do something for themselves, they don’t really care about the general public. Maybe because in their secret hearts, they know that I’m right.
Politically though, that would be suicide…

I was walking towards it when the explosion happened and was I suppose 10 metres or so away.

The funny thing was terrified people running away but carrying their food with them. No fried chicken will be left behind.

mcmc said :

Yeah, I did actually. Nobody knew what was going on, and it is told to Australians, never stick around when there is a bomb. Yes, it turned out that it wasn’t, but do you know how people like this work? Set off a small explosion, people flock in to help and then a larger one is set of and hundreds of people are killed and injured. Clearly, you have never listened to the advice of authorities in the know. Besides, it isn’t my job. The mall employs security guards and other people who are trained in first aid for situations like these. At the time I left I didn’t know anyone had been hurt. I don’t know whether you were there or not, but it was really scary… and, with rude comments like that I doubt that you were because you clearly aren’t showing any compassion for those who were put in that situation and have longer lasting damage. I have had nightmares every night since, and yes, after seeing a doctor earlier this morning it is possible that my ears have permanent damage from hearing it.

Absolutely agree, we were over in the video arcade with a friend’s kids and as soon as I saw the smoke we left the area at a brisk walk. I wasn’t necessarily thinking terrorist attack, but there was no good reason to stick around.

The bang was pretty loud from over the other side – I can only imagine what it would have been like being right next to it.

LSWCHP said :

Any blast that can break shopfront glass has to be pretty substantial.

This was counter glass as distinct from structural glass as I understand it. There’s also a good chance this was glass on a refrigerated counter, meaning it could have been thermal shock that caused it to break.

Disinformation said :

LSWCHP said :

Any blast that can break shopfront glass has to be pretty substantial.

I think that this quote needs to be put into perspective. “Pretty substantial” for an explosion of any sort encountered by the general public in the course of their lives where they don’t encounter any explosions..

I have experience (a fair while ago now admittedly) with HE, claymores, grenades, detcord, ANFO and other explosives. I’ve seen, heard and initiated a lot of explosions. I wasn’t there on the weekend, but I saw the results a few minutes later.

Also, my wife and I are both shooters, and we are both familiar with the sound of large caliber high powered firearms being used in enclosed spaces. Those things are loud, and she said this particular explosion was Very Bloody Loud Indeed. I trust her judgement on this.

So yeah, at wasn’t like an M26 or a Claymore going off, but you’d be wrong to think it was just some caps from a cap gun going “pop”.

mcmc said :

mcmc said :

As I was running away I snuck a glance at the Donut King staff, who were all standing there mouths wide open. I originally thought it was some of the equipment at Donut King. Considering I was about 7 metres away and how sore my ears are, I would imagine their ears are very sore – hopefully there is no permanent damage as a lot of the staff there are very young.

And yet, still you ran away rather than seeing if you could help?

Yeah, I did actually. Nobody knew what was going on, and it is told to Australians, never stick around when there is a bomb. Yes, it turned out that it wasn’t, but do you know how people like this work? Set off a small explosion, people flock in to help and then a larger one is set of and hundreds of people are killed and injured..

Precisely right. A guy in Belgium last week used grenades and a gun to commit mass murder, and injured over a hundred people. So, I agree that there’s been a lot of excessive hype about terrorism. However, the risk is not zero, and the tactics involving secondary detonations to catch first responders are pretty standard. I think that Getting out of Dodge is a reasonable course of action under those circumstances.

Had I been on the scene, I would’ve got my wife and kid on the ground, looked for a shooter and then hustled them out of there. Then maybe I would’ve gone back to help if she’d let me.

It’s easy to sit around and calmly postulate scenarios and courses of action after the fact. As it happened, my wife and one of my kids were at the scene of an explosion, after which grown men were on the ground hurt and bleeding and crying, one with his clothes blown off. This happened as people were happily doing some shopping a few days before Christmas, and my wife was writing a Christmas card while drinking coffee at Muffin Break.

I wouldn’t criticise anybody for how they acted under those circumstances. As it happened, many people immediately ran to comfort the injured and distressed, which speaks a great deal for their courage and selflessness. To those people, and the cops and emergency services people who helped out so efficiently, good on you all. To those who evacuated quickly, there’s no shame in self preservation.

Walk, don’t run.

mcmc said :

As I was running away I snuck a glance at the Donut King staff, who were all standing there mouths wide open. I originally thought it was some of the equipment at Donut King. Considering I was about 7 metres away and how sore my ears are, I would imagine their ears are very sore – hopefully there is no permanent damage as a lot of the staff there are very young.

And yet, still you ran away rather than seeing if you could help?

Yeah, I did actually. Nobody knew what was going on, and it is told to Australians, never stick around when there is a bomb. Yes, it turned out that it wasn’t, but do you know how people like this work? Set off a small explosion, people flock in to help and then a larger one is set of and hundreds of people are killed and injured. Clearly, you have never listened to the advice of authorities in the know. Besides, it isn’t my job. The mall employs security guards and other people who are trained in first aid for situations like these. At the time I left I didn’t know anyone had been hurt. I don’t know whether you were there or not, but it was really scary… and, with rude comments like that I doubt that you were because you clearly aren’t showing any compassion for those who were put in that situation and have longer lasting damage. I have had nightmares every night since, and yes, after seeing a doctor earlier this morning it is possible that my ears have permanent damage from hearing it.

Disinformation said :

…The saddest thing about the comments here so far is that the general population has now shifted to expecting a terrorist attack when they experience an explosion. And in a country that has virtually no political clout to swing, so is an incredibly low terrorist target, the terrorists have won. All that needs to be done now is send an email to the Canberra Times claiming that the vendor had “links to Al Quaida” because someone saw him wearing a checquered scarf last winter.

Agreed. You can thank the government for that – particularly around election time they like to instill a culture of fear, in order to get voted in again – and also to justify legislation and/or actions which impinge on what people believe is their rights…

At the end of the day I hope the people involved are not permanently injured, and recover quickly.

So where can i get some of this capgun ammo? 😀

LSWCHP said :

Any blast that can break shopfront glass has to be pretty substantial.

I think that this quote needs to be put into perspective. “Pretty substantial” for an explosion of any sort encountered by the general public in the course of their lives where they don’t encounter any explosions..
Tempered shopfront glass tends to let go at around 1psi. I’m lead to believe that only one bit of glass that was very close shattered. Considering the amount of glass in the place which is a bigger surface area, was unsupported and didn’t let go, combined with the reduction in general blast forces as distance increases, I would expect that this level of explosion would be equivalent to something between a couple of coke bottle bombs going off and far less than an average balloon full of a good mix of oxygen/acetylene. Shrapnel damage of course has a far greater radius than blast damage. Something that gains momentum earlier in the explosion will continue to take that energy far beyond the effects of the blast energy.

The saddest thing about the comments here so far is that the general population has now shifted to expecting a terrorist attack when they experience an explosion. And in a country that has virtually no political clout to swing, so is an incredibly low terrorist target, the terrorists have won. All that needs to be done now is send an email to the Canberra Times claiming that the vendor had “links to Al Quaida” because someone saw him wearing a checquered scarf last winter.

I arrived at the Mall about an hour after the incident and apart from the police presence and taped off area it all seemed calm with people continuing with their Christmas shopping. After talking to some shop assistants about what had happened I noticed a sign at Donut King advertising their new ‘Kapow’ Ketchup for the Hot Dogs. I’m was happy to hear not many people were too badly injured considering how busy the Mall was at the time.

yeh i really doubt this was just caps being abit of pyro and knowing fireworks well.
multil packs of caps just dont all explode as once since there not designed to do this.
even if you set the bag on fire it would be more like alot of small pops not one loud explosion,
its more then likly this idiot made some sort of sparkler bomb i reacon take him to gallows and string him up!

I was right there at the escalator next to donut king at the time of the explosion, sorry but I am not sold on the “cap gun ammunition” cause. It just seems a bit suss, how much cap gun ammo would you have to be carrying to cause and explosion that loud and of that magnitude?

Deref said :

I hope everyone’s ok. What a strange business this is – I’m looking forward to hearing about the details. Cap gun ammunition? WTF? How much would you need to be carrying to cause an explosion of that magnitude? Can you just walk into a toy shop and buy large quantities of it?

Many years ago, I did purchase a pack from a local toy store for a drama performance. Compared to the other two prop guns, the “ammo” I had was noticeably more powerful. Even though the other’s had been fired just before hand, when I fired a couple of rounds of this stuff, people genuinely jumped. Much more flash, to the point that unlike the others, it melted and scorched the plastic barrel nearest the hammer. The pack had about 180 rounds, so I don’t doubt that if it all went off, could put on a serious light show and burn someone holding it.

Deref said :

Can you just walk into a toy shop and buy large quantities of it?

Not anymore, I expect…

Comment #6 MCMC “As I was running to my car, plenty of other people were doing the same and the line to get out of the carpark was ridiculous.. I guess many people had the same thoughts as me.”

I think the valuable lesson for everyone here is in these types of emergencies is don’t worry about the car but get out of the vicinity quickly. Clogging up exits and roads for emergency vehicles can add to the probelm.

BerraBoy68 said :

It’ll be interesting to see how the person who’s bag apparently held the explosive tries to talk their way out of this one…

Perhaps once in a while the leaping to a totally unfounded accusation should NOT be the first reaction?

mcmc said :

As I was running away I snuck a glance at the Donut King staff, who were all standing there mouths wide open. I originally thought it was some of the equipment at Donut King. Considering I was about 7 metres away and how sore my ears are, I would imagine their ears are very sore – hopefully there is no permanent damage as a lot of the staff there are very young.

And yet, still you ran away rather than seeing if you could help?

I hope everyone’s ok. What a strange business this is – I’m looking forward to hearing about the details. Cap gun ammunition? WTF? How much would you need to be carrying to cause an explosion of that magnitude? Can you just walk into a toy shop and buy large quantities of it?

creative_canberran said :

grunge_hippy said :

Canberra Times reporting it was cap gun ammo

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/belconnen-mall-explosion/2396445.aspx

In that case ORS is definitely going to need to find this stuff and take it off the market.
Local thugs will have a field day with this stuff over school holidays.

Strange how fireworks are banned yet you can still buy this type of explosive. Time to take a look at this, methinks.

I hope everyone recovers quickly from the incident. What a strange accident

NoAddedMSG said :

One comment – if you have never been through a major incident, the come-down from the adrenalin overload is awful. You feel really teary, upset, exhausted but unable to settle. And then if you don’t know that what is happening to you is a biological reaction thing, it seems even worse. Not sure if it is medically justified or not, but the advice at that point is usually to avoid caffeine and to have something sugary.

Just thought I would pass that on – I occasionally have to mop up after traumatic incidents at work, and I have noticed the physiological effects of the adrenalin wearing off really hits people hard but it does help a bit if they understand what is happening to them.

Thankyou very much, this what really helpful and described my situation exactly.

Mumbucks said :

LSWCHP said :

The son of a friend was standing next to the guy at Donut king when it went off. He had some pieces of shrap in his side which have been removed, and he’s OK although very shaken.

My wife and son are totally shaken up, like actually shaking. My friend said when her son was being taken care of there was an 85 year old lady being looked after who had been nearby as well.

This is a terrible thing. I really really hope the guy involved, and all those who were nearby are OK.

I hope you and your family are ok. If in doubt get some help. It sure would be scary!

Thanks for your concern, that’s very kind of you. We talked about it all afternoon, and everybody is OK now.

Something for the boy tell his friends about at school on Monday.

One comment – if you have never been through a major incident, the come-down from the adrenalin overload is awful. You feel really teary, upset, exhausted but unable to settle. And then if you don’t know that what is happening to you is a biological reaction thing, it seems even worse. Not sure if it is medically justified or not, but the advice at that point is usually to avoid caffeine and to have something sugary.

Just thought I would pass that on – I occasionally have to mop up after traumatic incidents at work, and I have noticed the physiological effects of the adrenalin wearing off really hits people hard but it does help a bit if they understand what is happening to them.

Thanks everyone for your advice about my ears. They are indeed stil sore and it has been nearly 10 hours. I think if they still are tomorrow I will go and see a doctor.
But seriously, I think the biggest thing this has taught us is that the majority of rioters spend their Saturday’s at the Belconnen Mall.. what fabulous lifes we lead!

“Saturday, December 17 2011, 04:06 AM “

If they knew about it before time why didn’t they do anything?

mcmc said :

I was sitting just near EasyWay when it happened. I had my back to it but when I heard the massive noise, I turned around in time to see glass and dust flying everywhere. Really, really scary. My first instinct was to get out of there, fearing that it was perhaps a terrorist attack and I definitely didn’t want to be around if it was. As I was running to my car, plenty of other people were doing the same and the line to get out of the carpark was ridiculous.. I guess many people had the same thoughts as me. My ears are still, four hours later, really sore and I have a slight headache. I can remember people screaming as it happened and running, kids were crying and all the shop owners were speechless… people were coming out of shops to see what had happened. As I was running away I snuck a glance at the Donut King staff, who were all standing there mouths wide open. I originally thought it was some of the equipment at Donut King. Considering I was about 7 metres away and how sore my ears are, I would imagine their ears are very sore – hopefully there is no permanent damage as a lot of the staff there are very young. It’s not everyday something like this happens – especially in Canberra!

If you’re not feeling better in the next day or two get some medical attention. I hope the staff are ok too.

LSWCHP said :

The son of a friend was standing next to the guy at Donut king when it went off. He had some pieces of shrap in his side which have been removed, and he’s OK although very shaken.

The guy had a bag of shopping which exploded after he put it on the counter at DK. This is just speculation, but we collectively reckon he’d purchased some sort of minor pyrotechnics like a big bag of caps for cap guns, or a Pinata which was supposed to make a minor pop when struck etc, and whatever it was has been way overloaded and gone off with a fairly significant kaboom. Any blast that can break shopfront glass has to be pretty substantial.

My wife and son are totally shaken up, like actually shaking. My friend said when her son was being taken care of there was an 85 year old lady being looked after who had been nearby as well.

This is a terrible thing. I really really hope the guy involved, and all those who were nearby are OK.

I hope you and your family are ok. If in doubt get some help. It sure would be scary!

grunge_hippy said :

Canberra Times reporting it was cap gun ammo

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/belconnen-mall-explosion/2396445.aspx

In that case ORS is definitely going to need to find this stuff and take it off the market.
Local thugs will have a field day with this stuff over school holidays.

http://www.police.act.gov.au/media-centre/media-releases/act/2011/december/police-attend-small-explosion-in-shopping-centre.aspx

Canberra Times reporting it was cap gun ammo

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/belconnen-mall-explosion/2396445.aspx

LSWCHP said :

I have extensive experience with detcord, C4 and other energetic materials.

A party popper contains a tiny smear of friction ignited material that makes a loud bang and a lot of smoke. An incorrectly manufactured party popper that was actually full of explosive material would blow your hands off, or cause the effects seen at the mall.

My wifes description of the exploded Pinata, along with my friend and other people mentioning confetti and mess on the floor still makes me think that this will be shown to be a defective (ie overloaded) party trick.

From the looks of things, the guy who owned the bag took the blast, and he was pretty messed up but it doesn’t seem like a deliberate bomb attempt.

Guess we’ll have to wait for the Police to announce the details. Your previous comment referred to someone nearby having some debris removed from his side so it was this factor that prompted me to question if it was more, perhaps a solvent can left on a hot glass counter? Hope if this is defective pyro that ORS get onto it quick and recall it. If others have purchased it… ouch.

“no sir, the flavour is supposed to explode in your mouth…”

creative_canberran said :

LSWCHP said :

The son of a friend was standing next to the guy at Donut king when it went off. He had some pieces of shrap in his side which have been removed, and he’s OK although very shaken.

The guy had a bag of shopping which exploded after he put it on the counter at DK. This is just speculation, but we collectively reckon he’d purchased some sort of minor pyrotechnics like a big bag of caps for cap guns, or a Pinata which was supposed to make a minor pop when struck etc, and whatever it was has been way overloaded and gone off with a fairly significant kaboom. Any blast that can break shopfront glass has to be pretty substantial.

Would have been far more than either of those I think. Caps and things of that nature are decorative, designed to produce a noticeable flash and sound but very little force.
It’s a bit like the difference between real C4 exploding, which basically produces a localised mist with no flame, and the special effects they use in Hollywood to actually make “explosions” look cool on camera, which involves det cord and petrol.

I have extensive experience with detcord, C4 and other energetic materials.

A party popper contains a tiny smear of friction ignited material that makes a loud bang and a lot of smoke. An incorrectly manufactured party popper that was actually full of explosive material would blow your hands off, or cause the effects seen at the mall.

My wifes description of the exploded Pinata, along with my friend and other people mentioning confetti and mess on the floor still makes me think that this will be shown to be a defective (ie overloaded) party trick.

From the looks of things, the guy who owned the bag took the blast, and he was pretty messed up but it doesn’t seem like a deliberate bomb attempt.

mcmc said :

…My ears are still, four hours later, really sore and I have a slight headache. I can remember people screaming as it happened and running, kids were crying and all the shop owners were speechless… people were coming out of shops to see what had happened. As I was running away I snuck a glance at the Donut King staff, who were all standing there mouths wide open. I originally thought it was some of the equipment at Donut King. Considering I was about 7 metres away and how sore my ears are, I would imagine their ears are very sore – hopefully there is no permanent damage as a lot of the staff there are very young. It’s not everyday something like this happens – especially in Canberra!

Seek Medical advice. Determine if you have hearing loss as a result of this. I hope the kids working there do the same.

I was sitting just near EasyWay when it happened. I had my back to it but when I heard the massive noise, I turned around in time to see glass and dust flying everywhere. Really, really scary. My first instinct was to get out of there, fearing that it was perhaps a terrorist attack and I definitely didn’t want to be around if it was. As I was running to my car, plenty of other people were doing the same and the line to get out of the carpark was ridiculous.. I guess many people had the same thoughts as me. My ears are still, four hours later, really sore and I have a slight headache. I can remember people screaming as it happened and running, kids were crying and all the shop owners were speechless… people were coming out of shops to see what had happened. As I was running away I snuck a glance at the Donut King staff, who were all standing there mouths wide open. I originally thought it was some of the equipment at Donut King. Considering I was about 7 metres away and how sore my ears are, I would imagine their ears are very sore – hopefully there is no permanent damage as a lot of the staff there are very young. It’s not everyday something like this happens – especially in Canberra!

LSWCHP said :

The son of a friend was standing next to the guy at Donut king when it went off. He had some pieces of shrap in his side which have been removed, and he’s OK although very shaken.

The guy had a bag of shopping which exploded after he put it on the counter at DK. This is just speculation, but we collectively reckon he’d purchased some sort of minor pyrotechnics like a big bag of caps for cap guns, or a Pinata which was supposed to make a minor pop when struck etc, and whatever it was has been way overloaded and gone off with a fairly significant kaboom. Any blast that can break shopfront glass has to be pretty substantial.

Would have been far more than either of those I think. Caps and things of that nature are decorative, designed to produce a noticeable flash and sound but very little force.
It’s a bit like the difference between real C4 exploding, which basically produces a localised mist with no flame, and the special effects they use in Hollywood to actually make “explosions” look cool on camera, which involves det cord and petrol.

My family arrived there to do some shopping shortly after the police arrived. there seemed to be about 15 police around including about 4 forensics experts. They’ve cordoned off a good part of the food court around the doughnut shop next to the escalators. There’s no apparent damage to floor, walls, etc but there does seem to be a fair bit of rubbish on the floor. It looks more like confetti or the rubbish left over after setting off a good pile of bungers than anything particularly malicious. A white tent has also set up within the cordoned-off bit but this appeared empty. One of the shop staff (of a shop near Kmart) said the ‘explosion’ was pretty loud and a few people made a bolt for the main door straight afterwards.

It’ll be interesting to see how the person who’s bag apparently held the explosive tries to talk their way out of this one…

The son of a friend was standing next to the guy at Donut king when it went off. He had some pieces of shrap in his side which have been removed, and he’s OK although very shaken.

The guy had a bag of shopping which exploded after he put it on the counter at DK. This is just speculation, but we collectively reckon he’d purchased some sort of minor pyrotechnics like a big bag of caps for cap guns, or a Pinata which was supposed to make a minor pop when struck etc, and whatever it was has been way overloaded and gone off with a fairly significant kaboom. Any blast that can break shopfront glass has to be pretty substantial.

My wife and son are totally shaken up, like actually shaking. My friend said when her son was being taken care of there was an 85 year old lady being looked after who had been nearby as well.

This is a terrible thing. I really really hope the guy involved, and all those who were nearby are OK.

The rumour mill (aka chinese whispers?) claim something inside a bag exploded as the person carrying it was walking near the Donut King stand. Enough force to shatter the glass.

We just got back from there.

My wife and one of the kids were in the Muffin Break coffee shop when this thing went off just behind them. She said it was a very loud explosion which stopped everyone in their tracks. There was an Asian guy who appeared to have taken most of the blast. He was on the floor, and his clothes were burnt and he was covered in sooty residue from the blast. She reckons there was a Pinata near him on the floor that had blown apart.

The explosion smashed the glass at the Donut King. There was lots of smoke and chaos.

Police, security Ambos and Firies were there within minutes. She said they did a great job. She was very impressed at the speed and size and professionalism of the response.

I was down at JB HiFi stuck in a giant queue, and I didn’t hear a thing.