P-Plate Pandemonium

If you want to see what it is like from a tourist’s perspective, hire a car with VIC plates. makes you wonder how the real tourists feel when they come here, and the culprits aren’t just P platers, licensed drivers are just the same, they cut you off, they beep at you, they feel that you shouldn’t be on “their” road.

Oh, and when did the rules change that mean that a motorbike rider can ride between lanes to get to the the end of a long line of cars at the lights?

Not all motorbike riders do this, I understand.

I think ‘good drivers’ should be recognised by how they drive in the circumstance they are in. Ie in Canberra you have to wait before somebody passes to change into their lane. Just because this isnt the case in Melbourne or Sydney doesnt mean that 90% of drivers in Canberra are bad. In Melbourne city you have to do hook turns because of the trams. Just because we don’t have trams here it doesn’t mean those hook turns are bad. ‘Good drivers’ should be able to adapt to the situation they are in. Everyone knows that people in canberra dont let you in their lane until they pass so you adjust and thats how you drive in canberra. When I got to syd or melb, I know this isnt the case so I adapt and change lanes the way it is done there.
In the autobahn in germany everyone drives at crazy speed and its actually dangerous if you dont keep up at a crazy speed. It doesnt mean that all german drivers are bad cause they are going to fast.

I think Howard tapped in to some of this attitude, yeah. The selfish “gimme, I’m entitled” attitude, and gave people permission to have such attitudes. They’re not ashamed, now.

Yeah, it’s the “I’ve arrived, get out of my lane” attitude that is dangerous, and the fact that they’re probably on their mobile as well only adds to the risk. Human brains don’t fully mature until early 20s for girls-25ish for boys. So basically, they can’t be relied on to make mature evaluations of risk as they drive. They drive harder because they honestly don’t see how the bad stuff can happen to them. Same reason that armies used to like younger men (but not so much now, because training is very expensive).

I’ve spent some time driving in the Middle East- although it can seem chaotic, there is a level of aggression in Australian drivers that you don’t find over there. Drivers here are much more likely to aggressively compete- cut in front of you, or close gaps to exclude you- even though it doesn’t benefit them. Here, a maneuver is often treated as a win-lose situation- if you improve your position, it must mean a loss for them, so they try to prevent it. Can we blame the rise of this destructive and selfish individualism on the Howard Government?

Mike Crowther: The requiements for motorcycle licencing are just as lax as car licencing, if not even worse. Motorcyclists are required to attend the “staying upright” course which is nothing more than a few hours of how to ride on a motorcycle and keep it upright and complete turns. Then they are free to ride on our roads with no training or supervision. Motorcyclists are then required only to hold a learners licence for three months before another course/test to gain their provisional licence. Compared to the minimum six months under full supervision for a car learner, it sounds pretty good hey.

I think it is painfully evident that 18 years olds and high powered cars just don’t mix.

High speeds and all drivers don’t mix particularly well, given most drivers never receive training to handle cars at high speed. I could get my car to probably 180kph and probably crash and die if I did, no matter how “high powered” the car is its the skills of the driver behind the wheel what count and most of us don’t have the skills to drive at that speed let alone an 18 year old. You’re just as likely to die driving mum and dad’s corolla or your wrx.

Headbone – we dont talk about that. But it goes some way to explain the itchy scar on my shoulder.

Isn’t Mael actually worse than a Tasmanian anyway? Hey Bro!

Mr Waffle said :

Another annoying thing about that intersection is that it’s two lanes, but after the lights (going straight) it merges into one lane. Yet people still queue to go straight in the left lane, happily blocking off the left hand sliplane. I bet at least half the traffic on that road goes to the left, why in the world do people do people willingly block it off??

The road rules state that you should stay left unless overtaking. So unless the left lane is marked as a turning lane only (which perhaps it should be) that’s what I’ll be doing. A roundabout there instead of traffic lights would solve the problem (as it does at the next two intersections).

Going to Tuggers people stay right on Parkway, Drakeford, Athlon then scramble for the left for the turn near the swimming centre. Creates mayhem and illustrates the skill level on display by the average Canberra motorist.

People stay left in the Majura Ave/Cowper st intersection, cos once in a while you get some twit who insists on going right, and as there is no arrow, and constant traffic in the other side of the road, the block the entire right lane til the lights change.

I had a moron overtake me on the Barton Highway on Friday. I was overtaking a van doing about 90, so I was in the right lane, doing just on 100, when lunatic driver sped up, and drove between us to overtake the van as well. Who drives between two cars on a two lane road to overtake?

Ingee!!!!! No reason to go to Tasmania? What about visiting the place where you and Mael were born and surgically seperated? That’s got to be reason enough.

Its got to be a first for me although on this one I actually agree with Ingee. The intersection you are talking about is Majura Ave and Cowper Street.

Yeah Ant, I’ve adopted the same strategy too – pick the gap indicate and go – its a lane change not a change of career – you don’t need to spend a minute thinking about it. I just dont get why people would get their blood up about somthing that they are in complete control of – their the ones chosing to try and close the gap.

One bizarre occurrence I always see on Limestone avenue, before turning left to go past Daramalan to the Dickson shops (forget the st name), is that people will move up on the right hand side near/alongside gaps in the left hand traffic, but not come over until right before the intersection to turn left. It’s utterly bizarre; I always leave a gap if someone is hovering out in the right lane, but it never gets filled. Instead they slow down about 50m before the turn and slide in behind me. Sigh…

Another annoying thing about that intersection is that it’s two lanes, but after the lights (going straight) it merges into one lane. Yet people still queue to go straight in the left lane, happily blocking off the left hand sliplane. I bet at least half the traffic on that road goes to the left, why in the world do people do people willingly block it off??

I think the gap closing thing occurs because so many people will pull out into the right lane and then NOT overtake the car in front of them. Why they pulled out in the first place is a bloody mystery.

Agree, Ingeegoodbee. After spending a few months in Sydney and coming back, I really noticed that one. so I do teh Sydney lane-change (this is Sydney city): choose the gap, match the speed, indicate and GO. In sydney, they want you to do this, not hang around half an hour before changing. But Canberra drivers see the indicator as their cue to close the gap lest you move into “their lane”. So depriving them of this results in horn blasts of baffled rage as they miss their chance to beat a competing driver. Pathetic, really.

Driving thousands of km’s a year in pretty well all states of Australia – except Tassie (because there’s no justifyable reason to go there) I have long held the belief that our home grown drivers are no better or worse than any other place I’ve been. Sure you hear all the cliches and some straigt out crap about it being the good roads, or the absence of heavy traffic or the high percentage of Volvo’s or whatever. Lately though, I’ve really started noticing that Canberra drivers have a habit of accellerating to close a gap when the see an indicator go on, or even suspect that another car might want to change into the lane their driving in – it’s not restricted to P platers and it’s really noticeable. Its pretty simple, if you don’t like getting cut off, then don’t try to close the gap.

It’s not rocket science, is it? There’s no great mystery to this. Young people with P plates, we’ve all seen them. When you see a P plater driving with courtesy and sense, you notice it, because it’s so flapping unusual.

Generally they’re harassing other drivers to go faster or get out of their way, zapping in and out of lanes, tailgating… their attitude is “I’ve arrived, get off the road, I’m the only one here who can drive”.

Then you see the majority of “normal” ACT drivers, and it’s a real concern that these arrogant, unskilled “drivers” get to teach all their bad attitudes and favourite bad habits to their offspring.

Interestingly, whenever there’s a discussion about bad attitudes/bad driving on the roads, you’ll get some people chiming in whose only definition of bad driving is the people who are in the right lane. Now, right there, you’ve got your architypal Canberra driver. “Get out of MY lane, I want to drive faster than you, and I’ll tailgate you until you capitulate”.

Banks have to share some of the blame too I say. There was a time when newly licenced drivers bought their first car with money they saved from manning the Woolies checkout, meaning lots of people were driving $1000 Corollas and Pulsars. By todays standards they were not very safe, but it took a while to get them up to 100 and they were considered good learner cars because they weren’t too powerful and you had to most of the basic maintenance yourself.

Nowadays you just go to a bank and ask for $17K because your mate Davo just got a WRX so you have to have one too – never mind that you learnt to drive in your mums Barina! I have very fond memories of my first car, a 1984 Pulsar – no street-cred whatsoever – but I still consider it one of the best cars I ever owned.

Mr Waffle said :

One thing that has bugged me about the whole anti-P plater thing ever since I got my licence was that the people they’re supposed to learn from- their parents, the other drivers on the road- break laws left right and centre! Usually the only people I see doing the speed limit on the way to work around the lake are tourists and grannies, everyone else is happily driving however they want… great role models! Whenever I ride in the car with the old man nowadays I’m constantly pointing out everything he’s doing wrong, what laws he’s breaking, what technique he should use… my folks freely admit they’d probably fail L/P tests if they had to sit them now, as do all the older generation I work with.

I also think it should be mandatory for P platers (and frankly everyone at this point) to do an advanced driver training course. An absolute eye opener, especially on the effects of ABS- you can read about it as much as you want, but actually doing an emergency brake is a whole different feeling. As the Sutton Rd instructor said to me, the first time you do it, you don’t do it right (too little for ABS, too much for non-ABS)… might as well do it wrong in practice instead of on the road.

I agree that it’s not only P-Platers that speed and generally break traffic rules. However a high number of P-Platers seem to go faster (not just 70 in the 60 zone but 150+ in the 60 zone) and being young think it (an accident) won’t happen to them and they are invincible. And it is fun for them, until it all goes wrong.

Speeding and reckless driving has gone on since motor vehicles were first invented and looks set to go on for a while yet. Short of having police on every street corner it will continue to happen. It’s just part of growing up, we all did it. Not condoning it, just telling it like it is. Maybe if Canberra had some more motorsport facilities people could use the performance of their high performance cars in a controlled environment and also learn some driving skill at the same time.

The licencing system is a joke, no real skill is needed, as is shown by the amount of accidents that occur on the roads. A compulsary driver training course, similar to what motorcyclists have to go through, should be the minumum requirement for attaining a drivers licence.

One thing that has bugged me about the whole anti-P plater thing ever since I got my licence was that the people they’re supposed to learn from- their parents, the other drivers on the road- break laws left right and centre! Usually the only people I see doing the speed limit on the way to work around the lake are tourists and grannies, everyone else is happily driving however they want… great role models! Whenever I ride in the car with the old man nowadays I’m constantly pointing out everything he’s doing wrong, what laws he’s breaking, what technique he should use… my folks freely admit they’d probably fail L/P tests if they had to sit them now, as do all the older generation I work with.

I also think it should be mandatory for P platers (and frankly everyone at this point) to do an advanced driver training course. An absolute eye opener, especially on the effects of ABS- you can read about it as much as you want, but actually doing an emergency brake is a whole different feeling. As the Sutton Rd instructor said to me, the first time you do it, you don’t do it right (too little for ABS, too much for non-ABS)… might as well do it wrong in practice instead of on the road.

Hope the passenger from the WRX rollover at the Cotter pulls through. Poor bugger.

Not too much sympathy here for the 20 year old that crashed into the Transact equipment driving around with a BAC of 0.230 though. FFS.

minime – comments containing naughty words land in the moderation queue until an admin can check them out. I believe this also to be the case for comments with several HTML tags.

[Ed. Spot on el. I’m also less likely to get to comments posted after midnight very quickly.]

what does waiting moderationmean … who? what? How?

“From this it’s clear that the problems are the result of the parents and other people who teach them to drive. Time for compulsory driver training away from the hopeless parents,…”

Only thing bd84, motorcyclists receive (very good) professional training and testing before getting ‘L’s AND also before getting their ‘P’s.

Sheepgroping person: ranting without definition:
By “speeding” do you mean exceeding posted limit?; exceeding current ambient conditions such as any speed in the rain driving a Falcon or an old Charger?; going ‘too fast’in piece of shit with little experience, ie: 17yr-old in a 1989 Mazda 323 even at the posted limit?; not getting in the 3km line behind the blue Camry doing 96 all the way along Parkway but touching (oh my god!! a bit above 100 to pass it)?; accelerating quickly up-to the posted limit?; NOT driving around all non-straight bits of road at the posted yellow advisory number? [long day to the coast or Jindabyne); going quickly past a diesel bus/4-wheel drive vehicle on a motorbike so you can still breath?; ignoring your environment at any speed [recognisable in the supermarket witha trolley as well]; guessing what 97% of motorcyclists think therefore making you a better driver at a lower rate of momentum?; doing anything you do not agree with? SPEEDING …mmmm? The signs say it kills … do they mean 10km/h, 20km/h, 157km/h? or just the sudden stop? Then there is [for you] the ‘Reduce Speed’ red signs…handy when that Camry is already under the limit by 20 and still hits (yes, hits!) the brakes. Obedient. Sheep do it. Sheepgropers too?

One of the reports says “Officers from the Collision Investigation and Reconstruction Team (CIRT) were at the scene trying to determine the cause of the crash”.

EErrr … 19 year old, several passengers, likely males, WRX speed machine, 3am … not too much to “determine” I’d say. Idiotic drivers with the old “it won’t happen to me attitude”. Someone should start a new campaign … uuhm, how about:

Be Cool, Not a Fool … hehe, or
Speed is for Weeds, or
Slow is the Go …, or
WRX won’t WoRK if you smash the bloody thing!
Alcohol, speed, ego and testosterone … a recipe for disaster.

It’s getting late; forgive me. Hope the 19 year old gets better soon.

You should go as far as to blame the government for the current weather.
Have you nothing else to do? Good old Riot-act.

Who cares!

I drove past the remains of the crash site on the Cotter this afternoon – no wonder one of the officers marking out the scene smiled to himself when he saw me, another P plater in a wrx, but I last saw 19 a couple of decades ago.

I can’t help but wonder if it was the friends of the 19 year old who wrapped his wrx around an oak a few weeks ago, as even after their friend’s crash they thought speeding was ok if it was in the early morning.

Canberra’s drivers safe?? they’re either absolutely crazy or complete fking morons. mostly the latter. I have found I have very few problems with the P plate drivers in Canberra, seen the results of a couple of accidents involving them particularly over the past few months as a result of some bad judgement calls. The vast majority of bad drivers are fully licenced drivers, I’d say about 90 percent and about 97% of motorcyclists believe the road rules don’t apply to them and they’re the next casey stoner world motorcycle champion.

From this it’s clear that the problems are the result of the parents and other people who teach them to drive. Time for compulsory driver training away from the hopeless parents, and nothing like the moronic nsw laws which don’t teach new drivers a thing. However, I may agree with the no leway for speeding for new drivers.