Cave People on the Rise

No RR – definately not a NIMBY. More of a NIABY. Not In Anyone’s Back Yard.

NIMBY.

Just a few months ago, Stanhope and the CEO of ActewAGL were on the ABC news, spouting the benefits of solar power and how we MUST embrace this for our future blah, blah, blah. At the same time planning a ‘dinosaur’ 2 billion dollar dirty gas power station 600 metres away from houses. An reputable scientist has examined the ActewAGl submission and calls their quest to creat a gas turbine power plant archaic and discusses the heavy petrochemical fog that will settle over the valleys (Jerra, Tuggers and Woden) from the emissions from this plant. Am I worried (with asthmatic kids) – you betcha. Am I a ‘caveman’ … for caring about my community?

Yes – the facts are a bitch. ‘Comfortably met’; cut and pasted from the actual report:

‘With reference to page 2, using guaranteed maximum guaranteed emission levels of NOx and a stack height of 36m. A maximum Ground Level concentration of 245 micrograms/m3 was achieved. This complies with EPA maximum level of 246.’ Oh and the modelling was using 36 metres stacks … the planned stacks are 35 metres. Doesn’t sound too ‘comfortable’ to me. Oh – and they admit their models can’t really be validated – it is in the report; they actually state this. Hey Deano – you are obviously a local (Chisholm shops flyer photo and all) …. hope you don’t have any respiratory issues:)

More extracts from the report for your reading pleasure; ‘During night time periods is it expected that the noise from the site will be sufficiently above the background level to be audible and may cause an impact to very sensitive residences’ … should I continue?

Never let the facts get in the way of a good whinge, Deano 🙂

NIMBYs.

Some facts taken from the submission:

Whilst the boundary of Macarthur suburb is 600m from the plant, the nearest house is actually 990m away.

The allowable maximum ground level concentration of NOx is 246 microgram per normal cubic metre and preliminary studies indicate that the level will be comfortably met.

The air pollution study considers the worst case scenario of all generators running continuously; however approximately half of these generators will run as a peaking station. This means the generators may only run up to 20% of the time when commercially viable on the electricity market.

The predominate wind direction, particularly in summer when peak electricity demand periods are most common, is from the west – that is, away from any residential areas.

The land has not been ‘surreptitiously re-zoned’. It was never a nature reserve and the proposed use is consistent with its current broadacre zoning.

Nasty – where exactly is this thing going up?

Is it definitely happening?

What the fuss is about?

ActewAGL (which has the ACT Chief Minister and Deputy as voting shareholders) is planning to build a 2 billion dollar gas turbine operated power plant, just 600 metres from a residential suburb. This type/size of plant will emit approximately 95 million cubic metres (38,000 Olympic swimming pools) of poisonous exhaust fumes into the atmosphere every day. Aside from the constant whining of the gas turbines, the main concern is the amount of Nitrogen Dioxide that will be blown over our community (our research indicates that primarily Isaacs, Swinger Hill and Wanniasa will be affected).

Even in low levels this toxin causes increased bronchial reactivity in asthmatics, decreased lung function and increased risk of respiratory infections. For this reason, these plants are usually located in rural areas, far away from local communities.

These gas plants use dirty energy (the only dirtier energy is black coal); hardly in keeping with the federal government’s promise to reduce greenhouse emissions. Where is the proposal for clean energy such as hydro, wind and solar?

ActewAGL have ‘sold’ the development as a mean of supplying power for a ‘data storage centre’, but we estimate that the centre (which is basically a ruse to enable the power plant to get the green light) will require about 33 MW, leaving an additional 177MW for ActewAGL to sell back to the Australian Power Grid. To accommodate this power plant, the government has surreptitiously re-zoned local land (currently a nature reserve and horse agistment areas).

Where other governments act to protect the health and well-being of their citizens, ours re-zones land to enable dirty energy power plants to be built 600 metres from homes; perhaps that is what the fuss is about.

Jesus… FUD anyone? What a load of absolute bollocks.

For anyone interested, here is a copy of the propaganda that has been posted at the Chisholm Shops:

http://i25.tinypic.com/9862y0.jpg

Sorry about the poor quality, but it’s readable.

Loked at the data. The noise under worst case scenario is that the noise will increase 4 fold over night time current ambient.
Why not build this facility near Willamsdale as the main trunck gas line goes near there?

Why can’t Thumper be more like a man…..

Richard Burton

@Thumper

However, Macarthur Park melted in the rain….

Actually…

MacArthur Park is melting in the dark
All the sweet, green icing flowing down
Someone left the cake out in the rain
I don’t think that I can take it
‘Cause it took so long to bake it
And I’ll never have that recipe again
Oh, no!
Oh, no
No, no
Oh no!!

Macarthur already has a history as a Motorsport Venue…

From Wikipedia

“For a few short years Macarthur was part of the ACT’s motorsport activities. In 1978 a group of Canberra motorcycle racers approached the Department of the Interior for permission to use an unbuilt, yet developed, area in one of the unused suburbs in Tuggeranong for racing. The Department gave them permission provided they found a suitable suburb that was well away from built-up areas in the closest suburb, Kambah, and that they complied with noise restrictions of that time. Macarthur, which was being developed but not actively being built upon, was chosen and was thus called Macarthur Park.

Macarthur Park used Coyne Street, Jackie Howe Crescent, Merriman Crescent and Carson Street to form the circuit and the undulating nature of the course made it one of the most attractive road courses in south-east Australia. The Canberra Road Racing Club (formed while racing at Fairburn Park) organised its first race meeting in 1978. Between 1978 and 1982 many race meetings and championship races were run with some modifications to the circuit made to accept sidecars in the last two years of competition.

Now that the suburb has been developed the circuit no longer exists. The only signs are the miscoloured traffic island extension on Coyne Street, which was put back in after the island was shortened to allow sidecars to be raced on the circuit, and a sign in the nearby pines about 50 metres from a small off-street carpark that explains the short history of the circuit and the riders that rode it. Visitors to the area may notice the name of Wayne Gardener on the sign.[5]”

Deano did you say that the community council put up the V8 race track proposal for Macarthur?

Geez they got a caninng on that and got voted out so i remember

‘progress’ is not always the right answer either.

We should strive for a system where if the residents have Valid concerns they can get these addressed without having to resort to media stunts and placards around town.

Well said Deano.

Even if there are valid grounds for objection (and I haven’t read the DA paper work in any detail)

(a) it is likely that the DA will be put into a particular development stream to ensure swift processing,
(b) it could be called in by the minister (curtailing appeal),
(c) there are few if no grounds for 3rd party appeal under the new planning regime.

ant said :

It’s all very well to label people as “nimbys”, but hang on, what they’re doing is objecting to something that is going to unreasonably disrupt their lives.

There is nothing that will unreasonably disrupt their lives in this proposal. The group’s leader in yesterdays CT was trying to portray the development as some monstrosity that could be seen and heard by everyone in both Macarthur and Fadden, which is simply not true. The development is within the requirements of the ACT planning regulations and is following the development approval process.

Every development, big or small, is likely to affect someone in some way. At what point do you say the individual impact is more important than the greater good? There is no inherent right that says the world must be just the way you want it to be. The world simply wouldn’t work if anyone could effectively veto anything they didn’t like.

My biggest objection is that these people are trying to use FUD> to stir up community concern to serve their own purposes.

I think the bigger issue here, is how our ACT government pays little regard to the concerns of residents when it gets into bed with commercial developers. There are some stunngingly bad decisions made, and the government seems to forget that a big part of its job is to ensure that the little people, residents, aren’t trampled by developers and other commercial operators looking to make a buck.

It’s all very well to label people as “nimbys”, but hang on, what they’re doing is objecting to something that is going to unreasonably disrupt their lives. And it’s incumbent on this government to at least follow sensible procedures when looking at development, rather than letting commercial interests run the show with the government supporting them.

they should build a ‘servo’ so I can ‘fill up’ my Tesla roadster ;0

Here’s a thought….build it out at Gungahlin and see how many people complain!
Yeah, cause it’s not like they’re putting the juvenile detention centre out in Gungahlin :).

IT is 6AM.

I think it is bizarre- who wants to watch fireworks then?

el – that’s a bit harsh. Those people have puppy dogs that get really upset. The dogs might even piss themselves on the expensive doonas that they are allowed inside to sleep on.

BTW is it 6AM or 6PM because being woken up that early might put me in a bad mood (and I don’t even have a dog).

Does anyone else think the Olympic fireworks at 6AM next week is going to annoy a lot of people? Or will it be ok as a one-off?

Fear not sepi – I’m sure the usual NIMBY fkwit wankers will be whinging and whining as usual.

There is plenty of noise on the north – jets start going overhead at 6.30 AM. We are getting the new Quamby, and we were getting the dragway. Oh and Summernats.

– Does anyone else think the Olympic fireworks at 6AM next week is going to annoy a lot of people? Or will it be ok as a one-off?

Pandy said :

More importantly, will the local community council support the proposal?

Didn’t they set up the proposal for the V8 racetrack on the same location, just to stir up some community outrage to boost their sense of importance.

RuffnReady said :

Usually gas-fired pps are built for peak-load generation because of the price of gas… but this one is going to be used to support data centres? Odd.

I’d suggest the data centre tenants will be paying a bit more than the standard commercial rate.

$5 a litre for petrol is a scary thought. Perhaps, given the fact that the costs of living are going up (even higher), and in particular the price of petrol, you’d think that the 2020 summit taking place right now would surely be looking at better planning of towns and cities.

I don’t know myself what will come out of this 2020 ideas feast, but it’s got to be said that sustainability is important. There should be planning towards efficient and sustainable transport options which do less impact on the well being of planet earth whilst providing work/jobs, IE: Light-Rail, Trams etc.

Sorry for going off the topic 🙂

barney said :

The Mugga tip should be relocated further north? Maybe a bit late, and also for the Gaol, sadly. But they are all far enough away from anything to be of any concern, surely.

Wasn’t the original plan to have the goal at Majura but Jon and John couldn’t agree on a land swap?

This is an interesting trend in Canberra, I noticed the Watson folk against redevelopment of the “Canberry” site on Stateline and was thinking – gee once petrol hits $5 a litre sometime in the next decade all the open spaces in Canberra and going to be fair game for infill. So where will the “my community space” is sacred fit into that.

A gas fired powerplant strikes me as the lesser of many evils and given Hume has always been zoned “heavy” industry (for this town anyway) then living in Macarthur was always a risk for industrial development, a hill and several km away. Perhaps I’ll have their powerplant and data centre and they can have my 80 in a 60 zone burnout f*wits. I know who will get woken up.

Usually gas-fired pps are built for peak-load generation because of the price of gas… but this one is going to be used to support data centres? Odd.

zig said :

Hmmm not that I really care that much…

But it does seem as if the ACT Government is treating the Southside as a dumping ground for all it’s problems….

We already got given the ACT jail down this way, we already have the tip and now they are talking about putting a gas fired power station out this way….

Here’s a thought….build it out at Gungahlin and see how many people complain! LOL. Better yet, build it next to Yarralumla/Deakin/Curtin! I can already hear the whining!!!

The Mugga tip should be relocated further north? Maybe a bit late, and also for the Gaol, sadly. But they are all far enough away from anything to be of any concern, surely.

Yes but the Northside has Charnwood and Dunlop – sort of even really 🙂

Hmmm not that I really care that much…

But it does seem as if the ACT Government is treating the Southside as a dumping ground for all it’s problems….

We already got given the ACT jail down this way, we already have the tip and now they are talking about putting a gas fired power station out this way….

Here’s a thought….build it out at Gungahlin and see how many people complain! LOL. Better yet, build it next to Yarralumla/Deakin/Curtin! I can already hear the whining!!!

Donors? Liberal party? I thought they have all gone away?

More importantly, will the local community council support the proposal?

I can hardly wait to find out..

barney said :

Maybe the Liberal party should draw up a scheme

Zed “I’m beyond your help” Sesselja lives in Macarthur.

Will he join his local neighbourhood NIMBY crowd, will he say its not his responsibility because he is a Molonglo MLA not one from Brindabella, will he handball it to his puppet master Brendan Smith or will he simply push the project through cause its good for business.

Say tuned. These questions and more will be answered after they talk to their developer friends and donors…

Maybe the Liberal party should draw up a scheme and fund a underground drain network especially designed for cave people, drain dwellers, bunyips and possibly the Democrats and the Nationals.

Just imagine how good it would be!

GregW said :

35dbA is louder than you would think.

What I don’t understand about the project is the 210MW gas fired power station, what sort of power density are they expecting the datacenters to require? Are we just getting a power plant under the guise of a datacenter?

A bit of both.

We they say datacentre, they actually mean 13 separate facilities on the 21 hectare site.

Excess power will be sold for emergency and peak usage periods.

Pandy said :

Proof? Link?

Signs around the neighbourhood. Not everything happens online you know.

35? Isn’t the legal limit for car exhausts ~90?

35dbA is louder than you would think.

What I don’t understand about the project is the 210MW gas fired power station, what sort of power density are they expecting the datacenters to require? Are we just getting a power plant under the guise of a datacenter?

Proof? Link?