Petrol rip-off continues....

Jivrashia said :

devils_advocate said :

The prices more closely track supply and demand conditions

I could have sworn the price reflects the availability of cash amongst Canberra’s APS.

If you don’t believe me observe the price on every second Thursday. The price gap between the morning and the afternoon is as bad as Zimbabwe’s inflation.

More available cash = greater demand.

Slumlord said :

As a bit of a side comment, Canberra has to be the most apathetic town in the world.

We put up with every project being undertaken by the ACT government turning into a complete fark up while barely raising an eyebrow. And we put up with this petrol rort. What is it with people in this place? As Mark Gasnier once put it – FIRE UP!

+1

devils_advocate said :

The prices more closely track supply and demand conditions

I could have sworn the price reflects the availability of cash amongst Canberra’s APS.

If you don’t believe me observe the price on every second Thursday. The price gap between the morning and the afternoon is as bad as Zimbabwe’s inflation.

Pork Hunt said :

Further to Mr Gillespie’s excellent question, why is petrol the only consumer (?) product sold the way that it is?
The price of piss at the grog shop doesn’t wax and wane (specials aside).
The price of Kleenex date rolls doesn’t swing wildly?
Moo juice is the same price day in day out.
Pedigree (in case there are pensioners reading this), was the same price last week as it is this week and will be next week.

WTF is it with petrol?

All those prices move to a degree. The price volatility is just less (although booze prices do move a lot).

Some answers:

-Petrol is a homogenous commodity, for the most part. The fact that diesel, premium, e10 and unleaded are more or less the same from one servo to the next means that really, they are only competing on price. Other products can charge more of a margin because they might be in a differentiated product market and be able to exert some market power.
-Petrol is turned over very quickly. The prices more closely track supply and demand conditions, which impact on price. Whereas, to use your booze example, a bottle of scotch is more likely to represent a long run average of various costs in the supply chain, over at least 12 years.
– Moo juice (I presume you mean milk, I don’t know if there is a brand called this) does fluctuate. Have a look at the shenanigans over the $1 per litre milk recently.
– Petrol is probably more seasonal in terms of demand (globally), also it is largely dependant on the Singapore price, and therefore influenced by swings in the exchange rate, and also movements in the commodities futures markets.

So all those tend to contribute to price volatility.

The Antichrist said :

WTF is going on here ? Why is this place so apathetic towards such massive price-gouging in the ACT at the moment in petrol costs ???

Its an absolute joke that nothing is being done to address the massive disparity in fuel costs between here and Sydney. We just bend over and cop it sweet here in good old Canberra……..pissweak it is.

How do you propose that we not “bend over and cop it sweet”? Drive to Sydney to fill up?
Petrol demand is inelastic past the fluctuations in the weekly cycle and events such as long weekends, and driving to Sydney to get your fuel cheaper isn’t practical.

A scheme such as the WA Fuel Watch may be a good idea to improve competition.
Any WA-ers here able to comment on the scheme’s effectiveness?

well the rip-off continues its merry way.

111.5 cents per litre tonight in Sydney. Average price around the ACT varies between 134 and 138 cents.

WTF is going on here ? Why is this place so apathetic towards such massive price-gouging in the ACT at the moment in petrol costs ???

Its an absolute joke that nothing is being done to address the massive disparity in fuel costs between here and Sydney. We just bend over and cop it sweet here in good old Canberra……..pissweak it is.

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Meanwhile, at Big Oil:

– Let’s collude! We’ll agree on an artificially high price! We’ll make out like bandits!
– Excellent idea. Where should we do it?
– Canberra. It has…*pinky*…almost 360,000 people.
– God, man, that’s tremendous!
– Yes, I can’t think of anywhere else we should be colluding! Certainly not a massive coastal metropolis!
– Oh yes, mustn’t do anything funny with the price in a place with millions of people, where we’d only have to make small changes and collude on a much smaller scale to get the same result, drastically reducing our chance of being caught. Much better to do it where regulators live and work, and to price gouge by a truly massive amount in a tiny market that requires 100 per cent collusion!
– Then we’re agreed! We’ll set the price 30c higher!
– Or, or, stay with me, now – we just set it 15c higher, and have everybody think it’s 30c higher?
– Come now, who’d be stupid enough to stuff up simple arithmetic like that?
– Gillespie lives in Canberra, you know.
….
– BWAAAHHAAAHAAA!

Damn you Woody. I was reading through the thread all prepared to make some smartarse comment about this massive hole in the collusion conspiracy theory only to get beaten to the punch. Well written though. Wonder how a Clarke/Dawes style satirical street performance would go in Civic with a series of skits related to current events.

The gumbymint tries to influence what supermarkets can open where and when yet they don’t seem to do much re petrol stations. Watch both sides of politics jump over this as an election issue with lots of talk and mnimal action.

DanielK said :

can I remind posters that Cba had amongst the very lowest petrol pricesin the State during April and May ….

But Canberra isn’t in a state?

can I remind posters that Cba had amongst the very lowest petrol pricesin the State during April and May, certainly much cheaper than the average Sydney prices. that said I agree that Cba prices would work out among the highest on annual averages and that our prices are set unfairly higher most of the year.

We’re never going to get anywhere with smarmy bleats of “pour us” pointing to this occurrence when the oil companies just say we selectively choose periods when Cba prices are high and ignore the good times. then they’ll just talk about the normal pricecycles in selling petrol.

Meanwhile, at Big Oil:

– Let’s collude! We’ll agree on an artificially high price! We’ll make out like bandits!
– Excellent idea. Where should we do it?
– Canberra. It has…*pinky*…almost 360,000 people.
– God, man, that’s tremendous!
– Yes, I can’t think of anywhere else we should be colluding! Certainly not a massive coastal metropolis!
– Oh yes, mustn’t do anything funny with the price in a place with millions of people, where we’d only have to make small changes and collude on a much smaller scale to get the same result, drastically reducing our chance of being caught. Much better to do it where regulators live and work, and to price gouge by a truly massive amount in a tiny market that requires 100 per cent collusion!
– Then we’re agreed! We’ll set the price 30c higher!
– Or, or, stay with me, now – we just set it 15c higher, and have everybody think it’s 30c higher?
– Come now, who’d be stupid enough to stuff up simple arithmetic like that?
– Gillespie lives in Canberra, you know.
….
– BWAAAHHAAAHAAA!

wildturkeycanoe said :

I got ripped off yesterday. Pressed the $20 limit on the bowser, sat back and waited for it to finish. It went over by 11 cents!!! I tried to explain I only wanted $20 and the machine stuffed up, he wouldn’t listen. What would have happened if it went $5 over, or $30 over? I’m glad I had 10c in my back pocket or I’d have had to walk 30km home to get some change.

Sounds like they need their bowser re-calibrated.

patrick_keogh said :

Slumlord said :

As a bit of a side comment, Canberra has to be the most apathetic town in the world.

Who cares if we are apathetic? At least we are good at something.

Which is worse – ignorance or apathy?

Who knows? Who cares?

I got ripped off yesterday. Pressed the $20 limit on the bowser, sat back and waited for it to finish. It went over by 11 cents!!! I tried to explain I only wanted $20 and the machine stuffed up, he wouldn’t listen. What would have happened if it went $5 over, or $30 over? I’m glad I had 10c in my back pocket or I’d have had to walk 30km home to get some change.

Slumlord said :

As a bit of a side comment, Canberra has to be the most apathetic town in the world.

Who cares if we are apathetic? At least we are good at something.

aevans said :

Pork Hunt said :

Further to Mr Gillespie’s excellent question, why is petrol the only consumer (?) product sold the way that it is?
The price of piss at the grog shop doesn’t wax and wane (specials aside).
The price of Kleenex date rolls doesn’t swing wildly?
Moo juice is the same price day in day out.
Pedigree (in case there are pensioners reading this), was the same price last week as it is this week and will be next week.

WTF is it with petrol?

Petrol is made from oil, and oil is an internationally traded commodity for which there is highly variable demand, and supply that is not very responsive to price changes. Also most of it comes from places with lots of conflict and unstable governments which don’t like us very much, which doesn’t help the stability and reliability of supply.

None of those points apply to things like Kleenex shit tickets or the like.

The cost differences in Petrol related to international crude supply do not wax and wane on a weekly basis. The original point about why does it do this in Australia is a valid point; your response it totally irrelevant. Australian supply is affected by the fact that we have a very limited number of refineries and petrol retail outlets (and limited supply lines, trucks, which possibly could cause the price to vary weekly). Having said that, there is more evidence to support the idea of collusion within this market, than there is that strife in Iran is causing Canberra’s petrol to be pricer than Sydney’s.

aevans said :

Pork Hunt said :

Further to Mr Gillespie’s excellent question, why is petrol the only consumer (?) product sold the way that it is?
The price of piss at the grog shop doesn’t wax and wane (specials aside).
The price of Kleenex date rolls doesn’t swing wildly?
Moo juice is the same price day in day out.
Pedigree (in case there are pensioners reading this), was the same price last week as it is this week and will be next week.

WTF is it with petrol?

Petrol is made from oil, and oil is an internationally traded commodity for which there is highly variable demand, and supply that is not very responsive to price changes. Also most of it comes from places with lots of conflict and unstable governments which don’t like us very much, which doesn’t help the stability and reliability of supply.

None of those points apply to things like Kleenex shit tickets or the like.

The cost differences in Petrol related to international crude supply do not wax and wane on a weekly basis. The original point about why does it do this in Australia is a valid point; your response it totally irrelevant. Australian supply is affected by the fact that we have a very limited number of refineries and petrol retail outlets (and limited supply lines, trucks, which possibly could cause the price to vary weekly). Having said that, there is more evidence to support the idea of collusion within this market, than there is that strife in Iran is causing Canberra’s petrol to be pricer than Sydney’s.

The last paragraph is my comment to arescarti42’s comment … not sure why the quote’s on arescarti42’s words did not come through.

Pork Hunt said :

Further to Mr Gillespie’s excellent question, why is petrol the only consumer (?) product sold the way that it is?
The price of piss at the grog shop doesn’t wax and wane (specials aside).
The price of Kleenex date rolls doesn’t swing wildly?
Moo juice is the same price day in day out.
Pedigree (in case there are pensioners reading this), was the same price last week as it is this week and will be next week.

WTF is it with petrol?

Petrol is made from oil, and oil is an internationally traded commodity for which there is highly variable demand, and supply that is not very responsive to price changes. Also most of it comes from places with lots of conflict and unstable governments which don’t like us very much, which doesn’t help the stability and reliability of supply.

None of those points apply to things like Kleenex shit tickets or the like.

The cost differences in Petrol related to international crude supply do not wax and wane on a weekly basis. The original point about why does it do this in Australia is a valid point; your response it totally irrelevant. Australian supply is affected by the fact that we have a very limited number of refineries and petrol retail outlets (and limited supply lines, trucks, which possibly could cause the price to vary weekly). Having said that, there is more evidence to support the idea of collusion within this market, than there is that strife in Iran is causing Canberra’s petrol to be pricer than Sydney’s.

Of course my fellow posters have dawned on the Cba/Sydney/-regional NSW petrol price differences now, when Cba is paying at least5cmore per litre. Where were you when the price was at least 5c per litre in Cbas favour during April/may??

The petrol price game played by the majors is designed to keep punters concerned with the day to day price of petrol and not with the fact that it differs greatly with any measure it should be compared with eg Singapore TAPIS etc. This Game is statistical game ala Monte Carlo Simulation to obscure the real relationship between oil cost and petrol price to allow companiestiprice gouge without having to consider true prices.

soMrGilespie and his kindred spirits continue to bark up the tree the companies want us to, thereby postulating easily discountable bullshit,when we should beasking why thepricecycle?

Growling Ferret said :

Mr Gillespie doesn’t deal in facts or truth. 2CC is all MG needs

I’d say he’s probably a big fan of the quality journalism provided by the likes of A Current Affair and Today Tonight as well.

Pork Hunt said :

Further to Mr Gillespie’s excellent question, why is petrol the only consumer (?) product sold the way that it is?
The price of piss at the grog shop doesn’t wax and wane (specials aside).
The price of Kleenex date rolls doesn’t swing wildly?
Moo juice is the same price day in day out.
Pedigree (in case there are pensioners reading this), was the same price last week as it is this week and will be next week.

WTF is it with petrol?

Petrol is made from oil, and oil is an internationally traded commodity for which there is highly variable demand, and supply that is not very responsive to price changes. Also most of it comes from places with lots of conflict and unstable governments which don’t like us very much, which doesn’t help the stability and reliability of supply.

None of those points apply to things like Kleenex shit tickets or the like.

Mr Gillespie lol

As a bit of a side comment, Canberra has to be the most apathetic town in the world.

We put up with every project being undertaken by the ACT government turning into a complete fark up while barely raising an eyebrow. And we put up with this petrol rort. What is it with people in this place? As Mark Gasnier once put it – FIRE UP!

Priced at what the market is willing to bear. Like most things.

Excuses like ‘priced so we will value the resource’ may also be inserted here by the oil companies and government.

OPEC and the middle east have us by the balls. They refuse to let us join despite the fact we produce a fair bit of oil here in and around AU ourselves.

I will be very happy when the day comes that we are not dependant on the refined product of the black stuff. Who knows we may even find ourselves not being dragged into war with the US as much as well?

Mr Gillespie doesn’t deal in facts or truth. 2CC is all MG needs

Yes please do not ask the poor console operator. Mr curlylocks is a console operator and half the time they are actually paying more for it than what you are purchasing it for. And no we do not get a discount we pay the same as you.

Its horrible that we pay more for the petrol but as someone else has mentioned, there is no competition here sucks really!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Further to Mr Gillespie’s excellent question, why is petrol the only consumer (?) product sold the way that it is?
The price of piss at the grog shop doesn’t wax and wane (specials aside).
The price of Kleenex date rolls doesn’t swing wildly?
Moo juice is the same price day in day out.
Pedigree (in case there are pensioners reading this), was the same price last week as it is this week and will be next week.

WTF is it with petrol?

Completely exaggerating the price differences doesn’t help encourage constructive discussion around this emotive issue. Today the average price in Sydney is $1.30 and in Canberra it’s $1.45 (motormouth.com.au). That is half the difference 30 cent represented in your original post.

The current 15 cent premium in Canberra could be attributed to a range of different factors including:
Local retail competition
Wholesale competition
Sales volume
Supply/Demand cycles
Freight costs
See the ACCC website for more info: http://www.accc.gov.au/fuel

It’s no good asking the people at the servo. They’re just charging what they’re told to charge.

The problem’s not lack of competition – it’s collusion.

Simple….. No Competition here.