A nasty surprise - Kingston murder

BerraBoy68 said :

@dorkus mallorkus

dorkus mallorkus said :

@BerraBoy68 – I think I might have finally twigged who you are. Did you live in a cul-de-sac just off Spalding Street?

If you’re thinking Strehlow Place (first right turn up Spalding after turning off Tillyard), then yep.

Peterh – now I’m curious to see if I know you! I know we’ve talked about charnwood etc.. before but how would we know each other?

I got the bug for old cars from an old neighbor – Bob Stevens, who lived down the road and drove the Black ’57 Chev.

I lived behind the top shop in garrad court, went to charny primary and high, and copland college. I had a few mates in flynn, and trained at the flynn primary gym when i was doing Rhee Taekwondo. went to school with a few guys from flynn, roped into charny high feeder instead of melba high.

used to walk home from copland college down spalding, and would drop in to see a few mates on the way home.

then we moved to Evatt.

was in charnwood for about 11 years. my mum moved back briefly after the divorce, so i was there for an additional 4 years.

Headbonius said :

Yes I have children, multiple in fact. They are after all your child. Peterh, the same question applies – do you have any children? If not then your advice is worthless.

So, I realise that we all have different standards and belief systems by which we raise our children (if we have any at all Peterh) but they are resilient little beings that deserve to be told the truth – at least a version they will understand. I think you would all be surprised by what your kids actually know and can accept.

Headbonius, if you read my other posts on the RA elsewhere, you would know that i have 3 children, a 3yo girl, and 14mo twin boys.

and at the moment, that will be enough.

Raodrage – Which one of the mods died so you could step up. Add something to the discussion or head off to the burnout thread.

This discussion is very relevant to what happened and how a death at a childcare centre/ in general effects children. My oldest is 2 and she is very empathetic if something is wrong. We explain things to her about what is happening and if she ask she gets an aswer. Given her favourite saying is wasat? She gets a lot of answers.

@ Roadrage – which one of the mods died so you could step up.

This discussion is very relevant to what happened and how a death at a childcare centre/ in general effects children. My oldest is 2 and she is very empathetic if something is wrong. We explain things to her about what is happening and if she ask she gets an aswer. Given her favourite saying is wasat? She gets a lot of answers.

My 12 year old was 4years old when he lost his uncle to cancer, We were up front and honest with him about what happened, I also bought him a really good children’s book called “BEGINNINGS AND ENDINGS WITH LIFETIMES IN BETWEEN” it’s a book explaining life and death to children,
Kids aren’t stupid and they know when somethings wrong, the best thing is to be honest and upfront with them, they will respect you for it.
Lets all face it, there is no point wrapping them up in cotton wool in this cruel world, we need to teach them about life, drugs, murder and give them the tools to get through life and to keep them safe.
Thats just my opinion.

Overheard said :

RoadRage, look over there for 30 seconds; Elvis is back!

You can come back, RoadRage. It was just Jim Murphy wearing a wig and a jump suit.

GOLD!

I’m not trying to tell you how to do anything, PickedANick; I’d just add a cautionary word that the questions MAY come later.

RoadRage, look over there for 30 seconds; Elvis is back!

My daughter had to deal with the death of a much-loved uncle at age three (and three weeks) and I was gob-smacked at how much she’d processed and how it came out later. Obviously these are totally different scenarios, but I’m just suggesting that kids take in much more than we give them credit for.

You can come back, RoadRage. It was just Jim Murphy wearing a wig and a jump suit.

Just a report on life at the centre. It was open today but I think some staff were not there. My little one did get his special news today. I am very grateful that the staff who were able to come in today so the centre could be open, made the day as routine as possible. It is a great daycare and I really feel for them with all the bad press the company as a whole generates, when in fact the centre is excellent.

My child did take a lot in from the day before. He was very eager to return to “school” today but on the way he did ask is the “accident was gone” “are the police gone? “And the ambulance?” “Did Daddy fix the fence?” (Daddy fixes everything)

I still did not choose to tell him the centre was closed because a person died there. I think his questions do convey a sense of concern for the world as much as a 3 1/2 year old can.

Wearing chefs pants and hanging out around Telopea Park, not hard to figure what he was after, an after dinner snack perhaps. A Breadstick:)

@dorkus mallorkus

dorkus mallorkus said :

@BerraBoy68 – I think I might have finally twigged who you are. Did you live in a cul-de-sac just off Spalding Street?

If you’re thinking Strehlow Place (first right turn up Spalding after turning off Tillyard), then yep.

Peterh – now I’m curious to see if I know you! I know we’ve talked about charnwood etc.. before but how would we know each other?

Chef pants eh – all chefs and ex chefs are dodgy

(Disclaimer – For those who do not know me that well, I am a qualified chef and therefore poking fun at myself being of a dodgy persuasion – any similarity between my statement and any persons living or dead is purely coincidental)

Julius Constantius said :

OzChick said :

Stabbed to death in the grounds of the child care centre… That’s pretty horrible…

Being stabbed to death anywhere is horrible, I think geography has very little to do with it.

Agreed, however geography certainly does make a difference to the indirect casualties. I would hate to have it happen in my backyard.

I don’t think the McDonalds involved in that multiple shooting in the US some years back ever re-opened on the site of the massacre.

OzChick said :

Stabbed to death in the grounds of the child care centre… That’s pretty horrible…

Being stabbed to death anywhere is horrible, I think geography has very little to do with it.

There is a good chance drugs are involved. I’m sure that is the case with a fair percentage of murders. I think a preschool at night is a classic place to score contraband of some kind. I used to back in the day.

Granny said :

Is it just me or does the fact that it happened at a childcare centre make it seem even more grisly, like the horror movies where they use devices like clowns and dolls to make something seem even more awful and wrong?

Usually playgrounds at childcare centres are fenced off with no external entry, so you would have to be very intentional about going there in the first place. You would think he would have had to know his attacker.

I can’t believe how the parents must be feeling. My heart breaks for them.

If it was pre-meditated, then it’s pretty damn disgusting, not just because they killed someone which is bad enough…but then again, it could have been a spur-of-the-moment thing.

Is it just me or does the fact that it happened at a childcare centre make it seem even more grisly, like the horror movies where they use devices like clowns and dolls to make something seem even more awful and wrong?

Usually playgrounds at childcare centres are fenced off with no external entry, so you would have to be very intentional about going there in the first place. You would think he would have had to know his attacker.

I can’t believe how the parents must be feeling. My heart breaks for them.

dorkus mallorkus said :

@BerraBoy68 – I think I might have finally twigged who you are. Did you live in a cul-de-sac just off Spalding Street?

whoa. I think I know berraboy58 too.

Roadrage77 said :

I didn’t mean to cause offence, I just find it annoying when I have to sift through piles of rambling domestic shit to find out anything useful. Learn from Mark Parton’s demise: no-one wants to hear about your kids.

Right, because this site doesn’t do rambling threads that occasionally meander peripherally off topic. (The first response here was ‘hope none of the kids saw it’ and most of what followed (related to kids) developed and explored that theme, with just a touch of frippery about Santa and Elvis.)

JB, can you please photo-shop my boy out of that sunrise photo that’s still on the front page? Ta. Wouldn’t want anyone to have to sift him out to get to the landscape.

I didn’t mean to cause offence, I just find it annoying when I have to sift through piles of rambling domestic shit to find out anything useful. Learn from Mark Parton’s demise: no-one wants to hear about your kids.

@BerraBoy68 – I think I might have finally twigged who you are. Did you live in a cul-de-sac just off Spalding Street?

@Overheard – I must say when my son got the shovel I had mixed feelings of “WTF?!?” and outright hilarity. But kids will be kids. Having lost 2 close family members when I was 15 (I hit the 7 in me previous post by accident – one of my bro’s was 17 when he died) I unfortunately have a very unhealthy and ambivalent attitude towards death now. While I don’t want my kids to inherit this attitude (I admit – I can be really harsh about death now) I don’t want it to become a taboo subject with them either.

And LOL about RoadRage, etc…

@ Berra Boy. I wish I could say this more poignantly, but let me just say this very inarticulately: agh! Especially the bit about the kids and going to see Grandad. I’ve had similar tales of kids taking things very matter of factly and literally. And I’ve had interesting observations of my kids having to cope with the realities of death close to them at tender young ages: uncle, grandad, etc.

I’d say more but RoadRage will be in shortly to start spitting out his beer, teeth and dinner about boring kids’ stories being irrelevant to the thread, so that will suffice for now.

Yeah, I edited out that bit as it was wrong.

That news.com.au article also mentions that the murder took place in Kingston, Melbourne.

Stabbed to death in the grounds of the child care centre… That’s pretty horrible…

Overheard said :

While I would be sensitive to their missing out on show and tell or ‘What I did on the weekend’, and while I would be tempering some details and language about the incident that was the reason for missing it, I believe you have to start exposing kids gently to more wordly issues even at a young age, and also start to give them a sense of perspective and priority.

While I think Headbonius could have been more sensitive he has a point – kind of.

My 4 and 6 year old know and understand about death. I lost two older brothers 6 months apart when I was 17 and my kids know about their uncles, what happened and where they are now (theologically and physically). My dad also died three years ago. While I go to the cemetery at Mitchell fairly regularly i rarely take the kids. It used to freak my some (now 6) out. When I was planning to go there last week (on the anniversary of my dad’s death) I told kids we were going to see granddad. My son went to the shed and got a shovel to bring along… seriously! In short, although their only small, my kids both understand the finality of death and the practicalities of what happens to the bodies.

That said, seeing a real corpse is never pleasant and those who found this bloke have my sympathies – I’ve seen a few. The worst one was at a plane crash I witnessed several years back. I’m 40 now and still get nightmares about it.

Beserk Keyboard Warrior said :

What’s with the “nice” call in the opening speel?

It’s called sarcasm. It’s new a new thing some people are trying on the RA, you might not have seen it before.

What’s with the “nice” call in the opening speel?

news.com.au has the following:
A MAN in his 20s has been found stabbed to death in the grounds of a childcare centre after a night out.

Police turned parents away from the ABC Learning Centre in Kingston after the body was discovered this morning.

Police are interviewing a woman believed to have been with the man at Filthy McFaddens pub in Green Square either late last night or early today.

A knife was discovered near the body.

Police are yet to confirm the man’s identity.

Keep it relevant for Christ’s sake. Although I’m prone to overstating things, I think that a local unsolved murder is slightly more interesting than stories about your kids.

I heard everything and now I am in tears! I think you just may have ruined my life. Forever!

My daughter overheard a conversation between my ex and me about our Chritmas plans a few years back and that’s how she found out about…. Granny, look over there, it’s Elvis! … the facts about Santa, and I was called back to find a little girl in tears.

Granny, you can come back. It wasn’t Elvis after all, but he DOES exist.

My personal approach has always been that if your child is old enough to ask the question, they are old enough to hear the truth (with consideration to their level of comprehension).

Granny said :

I love the Blue Clinic shampoo song but what does Overheard mean about Santa?

overheard, if you don’t believe, santa won’t visit you. (I believe, oh, I believe)

and the shiny new CD makes me believe even more….

my kids, of course scooped the pool, but they have at least been good…

Granny said :

I love the Blue Clinic shampoo song but what does Overheard mean about Santa?

Ahhhhhhh, nothing. He’ll be here in December so I’d be getting your letter off to him now.

‘Wash your hair, shiny and healthy, shiny and healthy. With Blue Clinic Shampoo.’

Some things are just indelibly written on the cerebral DAT tape, aren’t they?

‘btw, my 3 year old was fine – I just told her that school was closed, no questions asked.’

Best result. Move along, nothing more to see here.

p1 said :

What do you sacrifice first? Their innocence or their trust in mum/dad/adults?

Not telling kids things at three or four isn’t loosing their trust, there are heaps of things you don’t get told at that age, so long as you are not lying to them. If they are hearing and understanding then they will ask about it, at which point you might have to have that cycle of life talk**.

(** – I am a terrible parent with no kids and little life experience so don’t bother telling me how my offspring will grow up to be politicians or drug dealers).

wait and see. they probably will turn out just fine.

If my kids ever ask me about life, the universe and everything, I will be honest with them. I will tell them “forty-two”.

If my 3 year old asks me about death, I will explain about it to her, not candy coating it, but not scaring the beejeezus out of her either.

I love the Blue Clinic shampoo song but what does Overheard mean about Santa?

btw, my 3 year old was fine – I just told her that school was closed, no questions asked.

I tried to drop off my little one this morning and was also sent away. Yellow tape all around the building except for the gate and car area at the front. Front door open. Policeman at front didn’t stop me so I walked inside and was greeted with a lot of “white as ghost” faces. They had been ringing mums and dads all morning (I must have been singing Blue Clinic Shampoo when that call was made to home house). I tried to get some goss but their lips were sealed. The back fencing had lots of plastic wrapped around it to stop gawkers from Giles street I suspect. Police everywhere.

Open as normal tomorrow from what I hear.

“Not telling kids things at three or four isn’t loosing their trust, there are heaps of things you don’t get told at that age, so long as you are not lying to them. If they are hearing and understanding then they will ask about it, at which point you might have to have that cycle of life talk**.”

Yeah, I was probably a little non-specific there originally. I don’t advocate full disclosure about every litte thing, otherwise kids never even get to enjoy the exitence of Santa Claus and the tooth fairy. (Sorry if that’s news to anyone.)

It’s at the point of ‘they will ask about it’ is where I’m prepared to be more frank. (Actually my father was frank, and his brother was earnest.) If my kids ask me a question, I’ll give them an answer*. It may not be as candid or fullsome as it could be, but then I learnt a wonderful phrase from an ex once: ‘economical with the truth’. It CAN serve you well if you use your powers for good.

* Most interesting one was when my daughter and I were watching a stand-up comedy DVD early last year and she stopped and asked me: ‘Dad, what does ‘fe!!ate’ mean?’

What do you sacrifice first? Their innocence or their trust in mum/dad/adults?

Not telling kids things at three or four isn’t loosing their trust, there are heaps of things you don’t get told at that age, so long as you are not lying to them. If they are hearing and understanding then they will ask about it, at which point you might have to have that cycle of life talk**.

(** – I am a terrible parent with no kids and little life experience so don’t bother telling me how my offspring will grow up to be politicians or drug dealers).

“What would you tell them though?”

I’ll answer the question with a question: in this scenario, should a parent apply a media ban for the next couple of day to stop inadvertent news reports that might contain the name of the school and the reason why show and tell was off that morning?

What would you tell the child in the first place and how do you reconcile that (if it’s some fabrication you trot out to them) with what they might hear or more to the point, overhear, later. ‘Oh, I heard about that poor man being killed outside Jaaayyssson’s school this morning; were you caught up in that?’ ‘Shhhhhhh!!! Don’t mention the D-E-A-T-H word in front of Jaaayyssson!’

That’s not a smart-ar$e question. I’m interested in the answer(s). Kids hear and understand heaps more than we give them credit for, as I’ve found out time and time again with my own. What do you sacrifice first? Their innocence or their trust in mum/dad/adults?

Me too.

peterh said :

Holden Caulfield said :

peterh said :

Leave the real world to the adults. kids don’t need to know about this kind of thing yet.

They have Harry Potter for that. 😉

at least, my kids won’t have harry potter for several years yet. They are still in the finding nemo stages.

I’m still in the finding nemo stages as well.

“A man has been found dead in a popular park just two kilometres from Parliament House in Canberra, police say.”

Maybe someone at Parliament House will know something??

Granny said :

What would you tell them though? We don’t even know what happened yet. In any case I would suspect that a child under four could be really afraid that if it could happen to somebody else it could happen to them.

exactly.

nightmares don’t make a child a happy well adjusted adult, they tend to get into the IT security industry.

What would you tell them though? We don’t even know what happened yet. In any case I would suspect that a child under four could be really afraid that if it could happen to somebody else it could happen to them.

I have never used this phrase before, and may never again, however, I sort of agree with Headbonius.

While I would be sensitive to their missing out on show and tell or ‘What I did on the weekend’, and while I would be tempering some details and language about the incident that was the reason for missing it, I believe you have to start exposing kids gently to more wordly issues even at a young age, and also start to give them a sense of perspective and priority.

How many kids do you see who even at the age of 12 or 13 believe the world revolves totally around them, and that anyone else in their world is either their personal staff or someone totally fixated on everything to do about “me”.

Obviously puberty hits and then the world DOES mostly revolve around them, but I believe kids are better placed to develop if they do start to learn more about the world they have to live in earlier on, and develop a sense of proportion.

Disclaimer: All of the above does NOT equal: I’ve raised my kids superbly and they are superbly well-balanced individuals. Hell, I’ve got a 13 year old daughter who can rival a Category Three storm when the circumstances prevail.

Haha, just keep them safe from that hot potato. 😛

Holden Caulfield said :

peterh said :

Leave the real world to the adults. kids don’t need to know about this kind of thing yet.

They have Harry Potter for that. 😉

at least, my kids won’t have harry potter for several years yet. They are still in the finding nemo stages.

peterh said :

Leave the real world to the adults. kids don’t need to know about this kind of thing yet.

They have Harry Potter for that. 😉

Yes I have children, multiple in fact. I am surpised everyday by their ability to comprehend things that are real and scary if they are explained in the right way. If you choose to lie to your children and shield them from the real world, that is your choice. They are after all your child. Peterh, the same question applies – do you have any children? If not then your advice is worthless.

As an example, last week, my son lost a friend, the same age as him (not very old) to aggressive bone cancer. Did we shield him from it? Not on your life. He sat down by himself and wrote a sympathy card to his friend’s parents. No help from us. When I read the card (which amounted to a hell of a lot more that “I am sorry”) and saw the picture of himself and his decesed friend that he had included I was astounded at the ability of someone so young to comprehend the fact that our lives on this earth have no guarantees -no matter what your age.

So, I realise that we all have different standards and belief systems by which we raise our children (if we have any at all Peterh) but they are resilient little beings that deserve to be told the truth – at least a version they will understand. I think you would all be surprised by what your kids actually know and can accept.

PickedANickname said :

Are you serious Headbonius?

I would be surprised to find any parent that would be telling their small child about a death at thier childcare centre. Children have very vivid imaginations and a death would be very frigtening. The circle of life conversation, I think would be more approriate when the death directly affects them.

The body would have been found before any children would have arrived. Earliest drop off is 7:45 am. So one can hope that no little ones were exposed to the scene.

I am sure the a majoity of the parents will be sensible and not have frighten the children about a dead body at the daycare.

headbonius would be upfront, and tell his / her kids all about it. and then deal with the nightmares, screaming, wetting the bed etc that the poor child would go through.

Leave the real world to the adults. kids don’t need to know about this kind of thing yet.

they will have to grow up soon enough, just not yet.

Are you serious Headbonius?

I would be surprised to find any parent that would be telling their small child about a death at thier childcare centre. Children have very vivid imaginations and a death would be very frigtening. The circle of life conversation, I think would be more approriate when the death directly affects them.

The body would have been found before any children would have arrived. Earliest drop off is 7:45 am. So one can hope that no little ones were exposed to the scene.

I am sure the a majoity of the parents will be sensible and not have frighten the children about a dead body at the daycare.

It was a big thing in the still very small world of this little boy, and the strangeness of the day must also have been disconcerting.

While this is not in the same league as a lost life, I am sure his parent took the opportunity to discuss the situation with him at a level appropriate to his cognitive and emotional development.

Headbonius said :

PickedaNickname wrote “My child was pretty upset. Today was special news day for him.”

Hmmmmm, a little one misses out on show and tell versus a person losing their life. Be honest with your little one PickedaNickname. In language that they understand explain to them about life and dying and how sad it was that someone has died. If they grow up thinking that their activities are the most important thing in the world they will surely be an egotistical, selfish little turd. I missed out on show and tell because some selfish bastard chose to die at my childcare centre – Boo Hoo, Wahh Wahh! Jesus.

Anyway, on a another note, just goes to prove that people, again surprisingly, die at places other than hospitals – eh JB?

headbonius,

got any kiddies?

they are surprisingly selfish about show and tell.

they want to share their news with their little friends, or hear about what their friends did.

I bet that you have a chat with your mates at work first thing.

Now, the fact that there was blood involved at the centre, means that there will need to be some serious decontamination prior to letting any kids back on the equipment.

especially if it was a junkie.

I do hope that their family knows what has happened to them.

seems that the real world is darker each day.

PickedaNickname wrote “My child was pretty upset. Today was special news day for him.”

Hmmmmm, a little one misses out on show and tell versus a person losing their life. Be honest with your little one PickedaNickname. In language that they understand explain to them about life and dying and how sad it was that someone has died. If they grow up thinking that their activities are the most important thing in the world they will surely be an egotistical, selfish little turd. I missed out on show and tell because some selfish bastard chose to die at my childcare centre – Boo Hoo, Wahh Wahh! Jesus.

Anyway, on a another note, just goes to prove that people, again surprisingly, die at places other than hospitals – eh JB?

When I went to drop my littlie off I was sent on my way.

The whole playgroud was marked off with lots of police tape. The worker who talked to me looked pretty shaken but didn’t give much details.

I thought it might of been a junkie overdoes till seeing the top bit on this post about the blood.

My child was pretty upset. Today was special news day for him.

Perhaps it was a former ABC Learning exec who had lost a bundle with their share crash who had topped themselves on the premises.

Don’t get me wrong, I fully expect a locality rather then a latitude and longitude, I just though it funny that that locatlity “near the corner of Leichhardt Street and Currie Crescent near Telopea Park” does not actually exist…

@p1:
Police tend to go with localities so the public don’t have to check development applications for “Block 1, Section 29, Giles St, Kingston”.

Which is fair.

Interestingly, Google Earth doesn’t show Leichhardt Street and Currie Crescent as intersecting at all. Perhaps the body was found in two parts?

from what I hear Telopea Park isn’t a gay beat anymore and hasn’t been for at least five years. I wonder what the motive in this case was . . .

So only homosexual people get murdered ?
News to me.

The ABC report actually says near Telopea Park, not in. To be specific, “near the corner of Leichhardt Street and Currie Crescent near Telopea Park” – take a look on Google Maps…

Strange – from what I hear Telopea Park isn’t a gay beat anymore and hasn’t been for at least five years. I wonder what the motive in this case was . . .

no word of a lie, I use ABC Kingston and am about to head off that way – I hope it was Telopea as stated above

oh dear how horrible.. my friend lives not far from telopea park.. she had to take a different route to work because of the road blockages

oh no – what an awful thing to find. hope none of the kids saw it