And we're back to speeding in April

Alderney said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

nathan said :

Tenpoints said :

Speeding also increases the kinetic energy (exponentially) that you bring to the accident

[p]Indeed! The GVM of a LandCruiser is 3300kg [a href=”http://www.mynrma.com.au/motoring/reviews/car-reviews/toyota/landcruiser-200-series-1000km-road-test.htm”]per NRMA[/a].
The GVM of my motorbike is around 300kg. Since e = 1/2mv^2, the kinetic energy of my bike surpasses that of the 4WD at 100km/h only when I reach 332km/h.[/p]

[p]For the record, I wholly support Tenpoints’ proposal for the speed limit for motorcycles to be raised to 331km/h.[/p]

100% agree. Also, motorcycles accelerate much faster than cars, thereby getting to said speed limits faster, reducing travel time and exposure on the road. Unfortunately there are dimwits who do not realize this and selfishly use the right hand on dual lane roads and still drive 10km/h below the speed limit. This does not allow anybody to overtake who is driving at the speed limit, therefore creating slow moving traffic and congestion on our roads. Fair enough if they turn right at the next intersection but after 3 or 4 sets of roundabouts or lights the person stuck behind can get quite infuriated. THIS can lead to wild behavior and cause accidents. One person’s selfishness or lack of knowledge of the road rules clogging up our thoroughfares.

I’m not sure where a lack of knowledge of the road rules is in effect here, other than yours.

Firstly, you won’t find a road with roundabouts where the speed limit is greater than 80 km/h. This is the speed where one is compelled by law to not be in the right hand lane unless overtaking. The caveat of course is unless sign posted.

nathan said :

Tenpoints said :

Speeding also increases the kinetic energy (exponentially) that you bring to the accident

[p]Indeed! The GVM of a LandCruiser is 3300kg [a href=”http://www.mynrma.com.au/motoring/reviews/car-reviews/toyota/landcruiser-200-series-1000km-road-test.htm”]per NRMA[/a].
The GVM of my motorbike is around 300kg. Since e = 1/2mv^2, the kinetic energy of my bike surpasses that of the 4WD at 100km/h only when I reach 332km/h.[/p]

[p]For the record, I wholly support Tenpoints’ proposal for the speed limit for motorcycles to be raised to 331km/h.[/p]

Your calculations are incorrect because they do not take into account the kenetic energy experienced by the flesh and bone of the motorcylce rider as opposed to the metal of the Land Cruiser. After all, it’s the flesh and bone of the person riding the bike that wears the impact rather than the shell of a motor vehicle.

And bikes take longer to stop because they have less tyre on the road and therefore less grip with the road surface. Unless your bike has air brakes 🙂

I am a motor cycle rider.

One school of thought is that if a motorcyclist is speeding they are essentially making a choice taking their life into their own hands. One could then regard the motorcyclist as having accepted that risk. If you then view the speeding motorcyclist as a person who has made a choice to gamble with their lives then the whole human issue of tragic life lost on the rider’s behalf can be set aside.

We can then compare the kinetic energy of the motorcyclist with the landrover unequivocally. If a landcruiser and motorcycle impacted other vehicles in the same manner (two separate but similar accidents), it is not hard to envisiage which accident would be more damaging to the law-abiding occupants of the vehicle.

Put simply, a large vehicle driven at speed is a greater risk to everyone than a motorcycle driven at speed.

But then I wouldn’t say we live in a society where people are responsible for their actions…

nathan said :

Thanks Skidbladnir. I note that the paragraph prior to that which you quoted reports motorcycle/scooter vehicle kilometers travelled as growing 82% in the same time frame that rider fatalities increased 17%.

I’d say statistically that’s relatively good news compared to a 1 to 1 increase in fatalities that you might expect if nobody learned how to deal with motorcycles. It would be unrealistic to expect that you would get a negligible change decrease in fatalities for a road group that almost doubled in size. Shows that there is more awareness out there than there was last century.

Making some estimations:
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/9309.0/
Let’s say 350K motorcycles on the road in 2000, based on a ballpark 651K registered in 2010
ATC NRSS says motorcycles account for 16% of fatalities, also ~1600 fatalities across all classes roughly averaged over the last 10 years looking at the graph p7 (though the trend has slightly decreased overall).
16% of 1600 is 256 in 2010, which means 219 fatalities in 2000.
Taking those numbers you then have 62 motorcycle fatalities per 100K in 2000 and 39 motorcycle fatalities per 100K in 2010.

Effectively this means as a motorcycle rider, you are 37% less likely to die on Australian roads in 2010 vs 2000. Good news!

It’s just common courtesy to travel in the left lane if you’re not turning or overtaking, regardless if the law directly calls for it or not.

wildturkeycanoe said :

nathan said :

Tenpoints said :

Speeding also increases the kinetic energy (exponentially) that you bring to the accident

[p]Indeed! The GVM of a LandCruiser is 3300kg [a href=”http://www.mynrma.com.au/motoring/reviews/car-reviews/toyota/landcruiser-200-series-1000km-road-test.htm”]per NRMA[/a].
The GVM of my motorbike is around 300kg. Since e = 1/2mv^2, the kinetic energy of my bike surpasses that of the 4WD at 100km/h only when I reach 332km/h.[/p]

[p]For the record, I wholly support Tenpoints’ proposal for the speed limit for motorcycles to be raised to 331km/h.[/p]

100% agree. Also, motorcycles accelerate much faster than cars, thereby getting to said speed limits faster, reducing travel time and exposure on the road. Unfortunately there are dimwits who do not realize this and selfishly use the right hand on dual lane roads and still drive 10km/h below the speed limit. This does not allow anybody to overtake who is driving at the speed limit, therefore creating slow moving traffic and congestion on our roads. Fair enough if they turn right at the next intersection but after 3 or 4 sets of roundabouts or lights the person stuck behind can get quite infuriated. THIS can lead to wild behavior and cause accidents. One person’s selfishness or lack of knowledge of the road rules clogging up our thoroughfares.

I’m not sure where a lack of knowledge of the road rules is in effect here, other than yours.

Firstly, you won’t find a road with roundabouts where the speed limit is greater than 80 km/h. This is the speed where one is compelled by law to not be in the right hand lane unless overtaking. The caveat of course is unless sign posted.

nathan said :

Tenpoints said :

Speeding also increases the kinetic energy (exponentially) that you bring to the accident

[p]Indeed! The GVM of a LandCruiser is 3300kg [a href=”http://www.mynrma.com.au/motoring/reviews/car-reviews/toyota/landcruiser-200-series-1000km-road-test.htm”]per NRMA[/a].
The GVM of my motorbike is around 300kg. Since e = 1/2mv^2, the kinetic energy of my bike surpasses that of the 4WD at 100km/h only when I reach 332km/h.[/p]

[p]For the record, I wholly support Tenpoints’ proposal for the speed limit for motorcycles to be raised to 331km/h.[/p]

Your calculations are incorrect because they do not take into account the kenetic energy experienced by the flesh and bone of the motorcylce rider as opposed to the metal of the Land Cruiser. After all, it’s the flesh and bone of the person riding the bike that wears the impact rather than the shell of a motor vehicle.

And bikes take longer to stop because they have less tyre on the road and therefore less grip with the road surface. Unless your bike has air brakes 🙂

I am a motor cycle rider.

wildturkeycanoe said :

Unfortunately there are dimwits who do not realize this and selfishly use the right hand on dual lane roads and still drive 10km/h below the speed limit. This does not allow anybody to overtake who is driving at the speed limit

The rule against overtaking on the left (except for bicycles) is when in the SAME lane. It is legal to overtake in the left hand lane. Extra care is recommended.

nathan said :

The GVM of my motorbike is around 300kg. Since e = 1/2mv^2, the kinetic energy of my bike surpasses that of the 4WD at 100km/h only when I reach 332km/h.[/p]

[p]For the record, I wholly support Tenpoints’ proposal for the speed limit for motorcycles to be raised to 331km/h.[/p]

My bicycle is about 7.5kg. 100kg is a common rider weight restriction for high end bicycle companents, so call it 110kgm. 546 km/h does seem unrealistic.

Skidbladnir said :

One of the source of increased fatalities on Australian roads over the last decade was a combination of the increasing number of motorcycles on roads and failure to correctly manage the impact of increased numbers of motorcycles on overall safety.

Thanks Skidbladnir. I note that the paragraph prior to that which you quoted reports motorcycle/scooter vehicle kilometers travelled as growing 82% in the same time frame that rider fatalities increased 17%.

bundah said :

milkman said :

bundah said :

milkman said :

johnboy said :

Speeders are clearly poor drivers because they can’t control the speed of their car.

A task that can be completed with one foot! And beyond them!

You shouldn’t confuse ‘can’t’ with ‘aren’t’.

Perhaps you would be good enough to explain how he has confused can’t with aren’t which is nowhere to be seen?

Clearly, the assumption that people speed because that CAN’T control the speed of their car. Plenty of people drive at a different speed (e.g. a few kms above), because they AREN’T trying to drive right on the limit, for whatever reason.

Ok while i don’t necessarily agree with JB’s view that speeders are poor drivers what is clearly obvious is that many drivers CAN’T maintain a relatively constant speed on the open road or anywhere else for that matter.So it’s not that they AREN’T trying it’s more that they CAN’T because they ARE poor drivers.

Evidence?

Maybe ACT policing should target their unmarked silver SS commodore that I saw speeding its arse off down belco way thismorning. I was doing 60 and he went past me like I was standing still, then proceeded to tailgate a motorcycle. Setting a great example there boys.

Hate to be the guy that points out that most of your opinions are anecdotal… but –

On highway or >80kph situations:
Crash involvement decreases as speed increases until 105kph, then increases again.
Overall crash involvement risk decreases as vehicle speed relative to median traffic speed increases (but the impact of this weakens, and risk increases again at speeds in excess of 15-20kph from traffic median)
Source: United States Government, Federal Highway Administration, “Synthesis of Safety Research Related to Speed and Speed Management”, July 1998, Publication Number: FHWA-RD-98-154

More science, fewer anecdotes.
(Australia doesn’t model road safety quite along these lines, but this paper is the US reference standard, and Germany takes the idea to a whole new level)

As far as overall road fatality prevention goes, most of the low-hanging fruit was picked back in the 70s and 80s with introuction of breathalysing and RBTs.
However, despite the National Road Safety Strategy for 2011-2020 identifying that the major safety factors that need to addressed in order were:
Roads, Vehicles, Speeds, and Road User Behaviour…, State Governments continue to focus on the two lower priority ones, because they generate revenue.

For Nathan and Wildturkeycanoe:
One of the source of increased fatalities on Australian roads over the last decade was a combination of the increasing number of motorcycles on roads and failure to correctly manage the impact of increased numbers of motorcycles on overall safety.
“The rapid expansion of motorcycling activity — reflected in both VKT (vehicle kilometers travelled) estimates and new motorcycle sales data — was unforeseen at the start of the decade and contributed to a 17 per cent increase in annual rider fatalities between 2000 and 2010.”
(National Road Safety Strategy 2011–2020, Pg12)

milkman said :

bundah said :

milkman said :

johnboy said :

Speeders are clearly poor drivers because they can’t control the speed of their car.

A task that can be completed with one foot! And beyond them!

You shouldn’t confuse ‘can’t’ with ‘aren’t’.

Perhaps you would be good enough to explain how he has confused can’t with aren’t which is nowhere to be seen?

Clearly, the assumption that people speed because that CAN’T control the speed of their car. Plenty of people drive at a different speed (e.g. a few kms above), because they AREN’T trying to drive right on the limit, for whatever reason.

Ok while i don’t necessarily agree with JB’s view that speeders are poor drivers what is clearly obvious is that many drivers CAN’T maintain a relatively constant speed on the open road or anywhere else for that matter.So it’s not that they AREN’T trying it’s more that they CAN’T because they ARE poor drivers.

chewy14 said :

gungsuperstar said :

Felix the Cat said :

Speeders are just easy targets, not neccessarily poor or dangerous drivers. Not saying that because I got a speeding fine either, haven’t had one in years. Police ought to target bad driving in general, like using mobile phone while driving, failing to give way, running orange and red traffic lights, unsecured loads and the list goes on. And on.

Bare with me here….

Sometimes speeders are very good drivers – the ones that are never caught are generally the best drivers. Why? Because speed cameras in the ACT are never in covert locations. So the best drivers – the careful, attentive drivers – will see any speed camera long before they’re in range.

Any speeder who gets caught deserves the fine, and can never claim to be a great driver who got unlucky – because by definition, you aren’t a good driver. You weren’t paying close enough attention to what was in front of you, which is why you didn’t see the speed camera.

I sort of agree with this. It’s pretty hard to get done by the mobile speed cameras if you’re paying attention to the road ahead of you. It’s not like they’re hiding.

Indeed. They stand out and are easily visible to even the moderately observant. Getting pinged for speeding in this town just means you aren’t watching what you’re doing.

bundah said :

milkman said :

johnboy said :

Speeders are clearly poor drivers because they can’t control the speed of their car.

A task that can be completed with one foot! And beyond them!

You shouldn’t confuse ‘can’t’ with ‘aren’t’.

Perhaps you would be good enough to explain how he has confused can’t with aren’t which is nowhere to be seen?

Clearly, the assumption that people speed because that CAN’T control the speed of their car. Plenty of people drive at a different speed (e.g. a few kms above), because they AREN’T trying to drive right on the limit, for whatever reason.

nathan said :

Tenpoints said :

Speeding also increases the kinetic energy (exponentially) that you bring to the accident

[p]Indeed! The GVM of a LandCruiser is 3300kg [a href=”http://www.mynrma.com.au/motoring/reviews/car-reviews/toyota/landcruiser-200-series-1000km-road-test.htm”]per NRMA[/a].
The GVM of my motorbike is around 300kg. Since e = 1/2mv^2, the kinetic energy of my bike surpasses that of the 4WD at 100km/h only when I reach 332km/h.[/p]

[p]For the record, I wholly support Tenpoints’ proposal for the speed limit for motorcycles to be raised to 331km/h.[/p]

100% agree. Also, motorcycles accelerate much faster than cars, thereby getting to said speed limits faster, reducing travel time and exposure on the road. Unfortunately there are dimwits who do not realize this and selfishly use the right hand on dual lane roads and still drive 10km/h below the speed limit. This does not allow anybody to overtake who is driving at the speed limit, therefore creating slow moving traffic and congestion on our roads. Fair enough if they turn right at the next intersection but after 3 or 4 sets of roundabouts or lights the person stuck behind can get quite infuriated. THIS can lead to wild behavior and cause accidents. One person’s selfishness or lack of knowledge of the road rules clogging up our thoroughfares.

Tenpoints said :

Speeding also increases the kinetic energy (exponentially) that you bring to the accident

[p]Indeed! The GVM of a LandCruiser is 3300kg [a href=”http://www.mynrma.com.au/motoring/reviews/car-reviews/toyota/landcruiser-200-series-1000km-road-test.htm”]per NRMA[/a].
The GVM of my motorbike is around 300kg. Since e = 1/2mv^2, the kinetic energy of my bike surpasses that of the 4WD at 100km/h only when I reach 332km/h.[/p]

[p]For the record, I wholly support Tenpoints’ proposal for the speed limit for motorcycles to be raised to 331km/h.[/p]

gungsuperstar said :

Felix the Cat said :

Speeders are just easy targets, not neccessarily poor or dangerous drivers. Not saying that because I got a speeding fine either, haven’t had one in years. Police ought to target bad driving in general, like using mobile phone while driving, failing to give way, running orange and red traffic lights, unsecured loads and the list goes on. And on.

Bare with me here….

Sometimes speeders are very good drivers – the ones that are never caught are generally the best drivers. Why? Because speed cameras in the ACT are never in covert locations. So the best drivers – the careful, attentive drivers – will see any speed camera long before they’re in range.

Any speeder who gets caught deserves the fine, and can never claim to be a great driver who got unlucky – because by definition, you aren’t a good driver. You weren’t paying close enough attention to what was in front of you, which is why you didn’t see the speed camera.

I sort of agree with this. It’s pretty hard to get done by the mobile speed cameras if you’re paying attention to the road ahead of you. It’s not like they’re hiding.

johnboy said :

Speeders are clearly poor drivers because they can’t control the speed of their car.

Unless the speed of the car is wandering all over the place, the driver is controlling it perfectly well – they are just choosing to set it above the posted speed limit.

milkman said :

johnboy said :

Speeders are clearly poor drivers because they can’t control the speed of their car.

A task that can be completed with one foot! And beyond them!

You shouldn’t confuse ‘can’t’ with ‘aren’t’.

Perhaps you would be good enough to explain how he has confused can’t with aren’t which is nowhere to be seen?

johnboy said :

Speeders are clearly poor drivers because they can’t control the speed of their car.

A task that can be completed with one foot! And beyond them!

You shouldn’t confuse ‘can’t’ with ‘aren’t’.

Spitfire3 said :

Speeding reduces the time you’ve got to recognise and deal with the idiocy of other drivers.

Speeding also reduces the time you’ve got to recognise and deal with the idiocy of speed cameras.

Spitfire3 said :

Speeding reduces the time you’ve got to recognise and deal with the idiocy of other drivers.

Speeding also increases the kinetic energy (exponentially) that you bring to the accident which you failed to avoid, because you were speeding. Blood and gore all round!

Until someone figures out a way to police inattentiveness without privacy/big brother/nanny state protests, then speeding will continue to be the number one traffic infringement by statistics.

*are

Speeding reduces the time you’ve got to recognise and deal with the idiocy of other drivers.

Of course the coppers should also target other forms of driver idiocy. But the fact that it’s easier to target speeding simply means taxpayers is getting better bang for their buck.

p1 said :

bundah said :

I have been subjected to abysmal driving for 40 years now and most of those were not speeding.

Maybe if you practice, and concentrate a little, you will get better at it?

Boom-tish! If only i could be so disciplined.Are you available for lessons?

Felix the Cat said :

Speeders are just easy targets, not neccessarily poor or dangerous drivers. Not saying that because I got a speeding fine either, haven’t had one in years. Police ought to target bad driving in general, like using mobile phone while driving, failing to give way, running orange and red traffic lights, unsecured loads and the list goes on. And on.

Bare with me here….

Sometimes speeders are very good drivers – the ones that are never caught are generally the best drivers. Why? Because speed cameras in the ACT are never in covert locations. So the best drivers – the careful, attentive drivers – will see any speed camera long before they’re in range.

Any speeder who gets caught deserves the fine, and can never claim to be a great driver who got unlucky – because by definition, you aren’t a good driver. You weren’t paying close enough attention to what was in front of you, which is why you didn’t see the speed camera.

bundah said :

I have been subjected to abysmal driving for 40 years now and most of those were not speeding.

Maybe if you practice, and concentrate a little, you will get better at it?

Rollersk8r said :

“Police issued a total of 593 Traffic Infringement Notices (TINs) for speeding and 198 cautions during the month of February.”

So if the Police issued 593 fines how many did the fixed cameras and vans issue? Eleventy billion? And how many cautions did the cameras and vans issue? None?

A more useful stat would be one which shows how many accidents are caused by speed alone, in other words because the car was doing 110km/h rather than 100km/h with no other factor involved (outside some trigger event such as a car pulling out) vs accidents which are caused by one of the numerous other factors which are not targeted / placed into the too hard basket.

“Police issued a total of 593 Traffic Infringement Notices (TINs) for speeding and 198 cautions during the month of February.”

So if the Police issued 593 fines how many did the fixed cameras and vans issue? Eleventy billion? And how many cautions did the cameras and vans issue? None?

harvyk1 said :

and hope these other problems go away.

If we replaced all the roads with canals, then all the driving problems would go away. Except for parking.

Supt. Flower says that those who willfully speed were gambling with their own lives, the lives of other drivers and passengers, and the lives of children, pedestrians and cyclists.Clearly a sweeping generalisation given that there are so many aspects to speeding eg. location,time of day,actual speed above limit,volume of traffic,visibility etc.

Excessive speed when obviously inappropriate due to circumstances that make it unsafe is the real problem not someone travelling a little above the limit when there is little to no traffic about.I have been subjected to abysmal driving for 40 years now and most of those were not speeding.

An example of idiocy today was i observed two females approx 30mins apart driving towards me,one of whom crossed to my side of the road,they were both looking down at their laps,clearly texting.This is see all too often and they are far more dangerous than anyone exceeding the speed limit by a small margin.

Remove the SPEED KILLS signs and replace them with STUPIDITY KILLS!

johnboy said :

Speeders are clearly poor drivers because they can’t control the speed of their car.

A task that can be completed with one foot! And beyond them!

Yes but what Felix is saying is that speeders are easy to target, but form only one facet of dangerous driving.

Speed in itself is not necessarily more dangerous than inattention, illegal overtaking, fatigue, and tailgating/

Yes speed is a factor in a good number of accidents, but so the other factors which for the most part are relatively ignored. Then again you can’t just mount a camera at the side of the road and hope these other problems go away.

Felix the Cat said :

Speeders are just easy targets, not neccessarily poor or dangerous drivers. Not saying that because I got a speeding fine either, haven’t had one in years. Police ought to target bad driving in general, like using mobile phone while driving, failing to give way, running orange and red traffic lights, unsecured loads and the list goes on. And on.

I dont think the concept behind targeting is that all other crimes are ignored. I expect being seen doing any of these things will still involve whatever response is considered appropriate, not just a slight wave of the hand and a wry smile.

Speeders are just easy targets, not neccessarily poor or dangerous drivers. Not saying that because I got a speeding fine either, haven’t had one in years. Police ought to target bad driving in general, like using mobile phone while driving, failing to give way, running orange and red traffic lights, unsecured loads and the list goes on. And on.