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Another accident…………….

Mike Bessenger 19 April 2010 65

[ED – Crimestoppers’ report is now available.]

Yet again there has been another serious accident at the intersection of Florey Drive and Southern cross Drive.

Between this intersection and the next one up (Starke Street) over the last 15 years I have lost count of how many accidents I have seen there.

Enough is enough, when are these two deadly intersections going to be fixed. Traffic lights, round abouts, what ever it takes something needs to be done now.

I have a feeling that this one tonight is quite serious. A friend heard it over one kilometer away. From what he heard a motorbike was flying then bang.

I live near by but only heard the sirens.

Why is the government wasting money on needless traffic lights in Belconnen town centre when they could be put to much more use?


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65 Responses to Another accident…………….
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yellowredme yellowredme 11:02 am 26 Apr 10

My sincere sympathy to the family and friends of the young man killed in this accident.

My house backs onto an intersection on Southern Cross Drive, on the 80kph section, the speed of cars on SC Drive is often well above the limit, I drive the speed limit and at times the body of traffic overtakes me. The speed and noise of some vehicles on this road, particularly during the night when they think they have the road to themselves is worrying. Leaving or entering Southern Cross Drive is at times hazardous, crossing the path of oncoming traffic requires patience and your full attention as the speed of traffic varies making judgement when crossing difficult. Quite a few cars lose it leaving SC Drive at speed in the wet, we are compelled at times to look out the window to check if the latest noise is another prang or just some silly person who has spun their car into the kerb on the side road. We also see quite a few pedestrians taking chances when crossing SC Drive to get to the bus stop accross the road.

Late last year I had to assist a motorcyclist who had been hit by a car behind my home on Southern Cross Drive, his injuries did not appear at the time life threatening but he was certainly in for a long time of rehab after his bike was thrown 30 metres, unfortunately the driver of the car who crossed the motorcyclist’s path just did not see the motorcyclist on this busy road, it was upset seeing the results of the accident. I would love to see a few roundabouts along this road to slow down traffic and make entering the road easier, I feel traffic lights are definatley not the answer, drivers are frustrated enough by badly planned traffic lights in Belconnen.

Growling Ferret Growling Ferret 9:00 am 21 Apr 10

People don’t learn. I was doing 60 along there last night when three people flew past me up the hill, just a couple of hundred metres from the scene of the crash.

All the road safety education in the world can’t beat the overpowering dickhead gene.

lepotika lepotika 8:26 am 21 Apr 10

to put all of your speculations etc to rest – forensics called his parents yesterday to let them know their son WAS following the speed limit, but unfortunately when the DRIVER in the CAR pulled out in front of my beloved friend, he tried to boost past it and THAT was his ONLY mistake – was misjudging some moron who clearly was NOT paying attention to the road and the ppl on it!!!! The price we pay is never hearing his laugh, his voice or feeling him near us again.

May i just add to whoever the blogger is who said all of us there on the monday was causing distraction – get over it. we were in the middle of the road for maybe 10 mins on the island, laying flowers down and mourning the loss of a family member and friend – i hope you never ever feel the loss as we do. .. fancy complaining us being there is causing a distraction… how rude.

donkeytits1 donkeytits1 12:19 am 21 Apr 10

Also, if anyone of some importance is reading this, please do not put trafic lights in. We have enough trafic lights in this town. I would think a round about would be more appororiate

donkeytits1 donkeytits1 12:17 am 21 Apr 10

I have to say I am nearly taking offence to the notion that the motorcyclist is part of the cause of this accident, especially as the assumption that motorcyclists are all fast reckless and dangerous were thrown in there.

Gerry-Built Gerry-Built 9:34 pm 20 Apr 10

Sgt.Bungers said :

…and 90km/h+ from idiots who are yet to learn they do not in fact have mad driving skillz?

Hear hear.

Gerry-Built Gerry-Built 9:08 pm 20 Apr 10

buzz819 said :

Ohh I seem to have upset you. Do you need to be reminded that this *IS* RiotACT where people can share there opinions? At the end of the day I don’t really care about yours, but saying that sitting in your arm chair at home you can’t possibly say what happened at the time of the collision.

LOL – I teach teenagers in a Public High School, I’m made of much firmer stuff 😛

I “can’t possibly say what happened” – I agree totally with that; but I will certainly feel free to speculate. I have a strong basis for my speculation (young male rider, throw distance, witness marks at scene, observations on that stretch of road, etc), though in no way would I be naive enough to presume to know for certain – I’m no expert on motor vehicle accidents.

Sgt.Bungers Sgt.Bungers 5:37 pm 20 Apr 10

bd84 said :

There’s no way that your car would gain 20kph going down there without accelerating. Unless the hill has a steep incline, taking your foot off the accelerator will slow your car without even needing to use the brakes. The hill there is in no way steep, a gradual slope maybe.

Ever driven a car with an automatic gearbox? 🙂

In a car with a manual box, yes, you’d be right in most instances… especially a 4 cyl.

Motor vehicles with automatic gearboxes though have essentially zero engine braking at lower speeds. A gradual slope is all that is needed for the vehicle speed to begin creeping. Particularly at 60km/h in top gear.

At 60km/h, a larger 4 cyl or a typical 6 cyl motor would easily be sitting at under 1500rpm, tourque converter most likely unlocked. Without the driver input of the brakes being applied, you’ve essentially got a 1.5 tonne billy cart.

buzz819 buzz819 5:15 pm 20 Apr 10

I know how to solve it, overpasses and push ups. Push ups help EVERYTHING…

Sgt.Bungers Sgt.Bungers 4:58 pm 20 Apr 10

Very few car crashes are accidents.

Southern Cross and Florey Drives are atrociously designed and poorly speed limited.

They have all the hallmarks of the typically complacent design standards that can be found in Australian Residential areas.

Southern Cross Drive feels *painfully* slow at 60km/h in many parts. Florey Drive is another road that requires constant attention on the speedo. It is a residential area… International standards dictate the speed limit should be 30km/h – 50km/h. A pedestrian struck at 30km/h has a 90% chance of survival… At 45km/h+ the chance drops to below 50%.

Why were these roads built in residential areas to a standard that encourages speeds of 70km/h+ from the average motorist, and 90km/h+ from idiots who are yet to learn they do not in fact have mad driving skillz?

Why has that standard continued to be maintained on these roads? Why have speed cameras been used to punish those who are committing a crime that is being encouraged by the road layout, when the road layout could have been changed and re-engineered to make motorists feel uncomfortable as they approach 50km/h instead? Thus significantly reducing the chance of people breaking the law or unwittingly travelling dangerously fast in the first place.

Roundabouts would be an excellent first step at these problem intersections. Roundabouts force motorists to slow down as they approach the intersection from any direction. If there is a crash, it is likely to be less severe. Whereas at the moment, motorists on Southern Cross Drive have the comfort of knowing that 99.999% of the time, they can glide through that intersection at high speed and everyone else will stop for them.

Once the roundabouts are in, the Tuggeranong Parkway with driveways that is Southern Cross Drive, and the appallingly designed Florey Drive, both need to be ripped up and replaced with roads built with a 50km/h maximum speed in mind.

The fact that the ACT GovCo, and indeed all Australian Governments are still building roads that encourage high speeds, still building intersections that encourage high speeds for certain directions (traffic lights, give way/stop signs) leaving little room for error, then blaming the “speeding” population for the road toll, is despicable.

Thoroughly Smashed Thoroughly Smashed 10:35 am 20 Apr 10

buzz819 said :

dvaey said :

If your car isnt able to go from 60 to 80 down that hill, I suggest you have your brakes or wheel-bearings checked, as something must be binding or sticking. I only drive a little hatchback, but Id often have to drop down a gear or two, to stop my car from speeding. (Sure, I could use my brakes, but despite current driver education Ive been taught to use gears in preference to my brakes).

Which is a good thing, it means that no one behind you can tell that you are slowing down, until of course they are on top of you and you save the unnecessary inconvenience of changing brake pads and brake lights as often.

I mean who needs brake lights anyway?

He’s using the technique to maintain a constant speed on a down grade, not to slow down.

Jim Jones Jim Jones 10:35 am 20 Apr 10

buzz819 said :

Which is a good thing, it means that no one behind you can tell that you are slowing down

You really can’t tell if someone’s slowing down without brake lights?

Regardless, in this case, it isn’t even someone slowing down, it’s someone stopping themselves from speeding up (and actually remaining at a constant speed).

buzz819 buzz819 10:12 am 20 Apr 10

dvaey said :

bd84 said :

There’s no way that your car would gain 20kph going down there without accelerating. Unless the hill has a steep incline, taking your foot off the accelerator will slow your car without even needing to use the brakes.

If your car isnt able to go from 60 to 80 down that hill, I suggest you have your brakes or wheel-bearings checked, as something must be binding or sticking. I only drive a little hatchback, but Id often have to drop down a gear or two, to stop my car from speeding. (Sure, I could use my brakes, but despite current driver education Ive been taught to use gears in preference to my brakes).

Which is a good thing, it means that no one behind you can tell that you are slowing down, until of course they are on top of you and you save the unnecessary inconvenience of changing brake pads and brake lights as often.

I mean who needs brake lights anyway?

dvaey dvaey 9:26 am 20 Apr 10

bd84 said :

There’s no way that your car would gain 20kph going down there without accelerating. Unless the hill has a steep incline, taking your foot off the accelerator will slow your car without even needing to use the brakes.

If your car isnt able to go from 60 to 80 down that hill, I suggest you have your brakes or wheel-bearings checked, as something must be binding or sticking. I only drive a little hatchback, but Id often have to drop down a gear or two, to stop my car from speeding. (Sure, I could use my brakes, but despite current driver education Ive been taught to use gears in preference to my brakes).

thatsnotme thatsnotme 8:59 am 20 Apr 10

bd84 said :

There’s no way that your car would gain 20kph going down there without accelerating. Unless the hill has a steep incline, taking your foot off the accelerator will slow your car without even needing to use the brakes. The hill there is in no way steep, a gradual slope maybe.

Nope. Cars pick up speed down that hill with no use of the accelerator at all, and definitely don’t slow themselves down. Possibly a manual might handle it better, but an automatic can easily pick up 20km/h by the bottom of that hill – I can personally attest to that. Driving my Commodore down that hill, it’s necessary to ride the brakes down the entire slope – even knocking it back to 3rd gear isn’t enough to keep to the speed limit.

Thumper Thumper 8:24 am 20 Apr 10

That would be “you’re”

Early morning…

Thumper Thumper 8:24 am 20 Apr 10

Motorcyclists need to be careful of intersections. I slow down at every intersection without hesitation. Ride defensively

Indeed. The only way to ride is defensively. On a bike you hit anything and your in a serious world of hurt…

MangaGal MangaGal 7:16 am 20 Apr 10

When I heard of this accident, I was upset because I’m a motorcyclist too. It’s not a good feeling to lose one of your own, so to speak.

I think this is not the right time to lay blames at all. Whoever’s fault it is, it won’t change the reality.

I think having either a set of lights or roundabout are both good idea. People can complain all they want. And for those who complain, probably because they want to fly down that long straight road doing more than 60km/h. I used to ride to work going that way but now I choose the other way with round about outside of Charnie.

Motorcyclists need to be careful of intersections. I slow down at every intersection without hesitation. Ride defensively.

Motorists, please look for us out there. The number of motorcyclists out there has grown in the past years. There are more of us out there now so please look out for us. I’ve had a few close calls and the feeling of about to be hit by a car is terrifying! No one will ever get used to it so please watch out for us on your blind spots and at intersections.

My heart goes out to the family of the deceased.

buzz819 buzz819 6:51 am 20 Apr 10

Gerry-Built said :

Holden Caulfield said :

Respects to the families involved.

Absolutely. 100%.

Additionally though, I did make it clear it was my assumption (as few details had been released) in my previous posts – I also assumed no other obstructions but bike hitting car, as the distance he traveled seems to indicate. I Googled around a bit to find some sort of basis for that (thanks for the YT link – I will look it up later when Dunlop isn’t running at stoooopid slow). I get PO’d by all the speeding motorists along that stretch (and speeding motorists in general anyhow), and seeing the distance between the accident and tarps in the CT image and resultant damage to the car – I think I’ve rightly assumed speed was a BIG factor. I did drive through there today, and I would stand by my assumptions based on the indicators clearly marked on the road – but will happily be put in my place if evidence is to the contrary. I wanted to make the point about the rider contributing to fault, as a previous post laid the blame directly on the driver of the car (nor was I simply turning the blame to the rider – just making it clear I thought there was some contribution from the rider).

buzz819 said :

I don’t think anyone can really speculate as to what happened.

Just occasionally, people need to be reminded that this *IS* RiotACT… This is an “online soapbox”. I was definitely speculating, and airing my opinion – and I did so based on what I have seen in the area, and what I saw in the photos. I also tried to give my assumptions some factual basis, but found no information on this particular kind of accident.

Ohh I seem to have upset you. Do you need to be reminded that this *IS* RiotACT where people can share there opinions? At the end of the day I don’t really care about yours, but saying that sitting in your arm chair at home you can’t possibly say what happened at the time of the collision.

JC JC 2:20 am 20 Apr 10

TP 3000 said :

What would work best for the intersection of Florey Drive/Southern Cross Drive & Starke Street/Southern Cross Drive (West) would be an attempt at a realignment so those 2 intersections became one. Then have traffic lights with a red light/speed camera.

This is mainly due to the fact that I (at times) see long lines of traffic coming out of Kippax shops waiting to turn onto Southern Cross Drive & once Macgregor West is complete that surely brings a lot more cars onto Southern Cross Drive.

But also the amount of people that speed along Southern Cross Drive is ridiculous, I’m surprised there aren’t more accidents leading to death along that stretch of road.

So how you going to do that? Remove the club and vet’s office or knock down some houses?

The better idea would be to do what was meant to happen originally and that is extend Flory drive into Kippax, but alas now the road in front of Kippax Fair is not a through road so maybe not a good idea.

Roundabouts on these two intersections would be ideal as it would slow vehicles down and give a better chance for cars coming out of Florey Drive.

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