Are Canberrans a bunch of NIMBYs?

Karralika- O.M.G Don’t get me started about Karralika.

Here’s a hint people – for free.

Once upon a time, there was a Drug and Alcohol rehab facility built way out the back of beyond. I know it was out the back of beyond, because as a kid, I used to go-cart around the streets of the suburb, and they were there *first*. (Actually – I still do – when I think about it..) They perform a really useful function for the community. If *you* built your home nearby – remember that *you* chose to be there. So *why* do you complain when they ask to increase the capacity of their facility by 10 or so beds.

O.M.G You selfish, uncaring so called ‘citizens’!

I just wish I had the capacity to buy the 10-20 homes next door, so I could turn up to the planning meetings, and provide 20 votes for whatever plans they had…

It is almost as bad as people who chose to build their house in Belconnen on top of an old tip – There is a *reason* why your walls are cracking. Next time, do some research on the community you are moving into.

There should be more personal responsibility for decisions, and less blaming the government!

That’s why the call in powers get used. These opposition groups have got their press releases out almost before an announcement is made – just fill in the blanks. And because there is so little news to report, these groups get a disproportionate amount of space in the CT, 666 and Win news. Two years lateer we would still be demanding new EIS (with particular reference to the earless lizard and red box), traffic flow studies, local area masterplans and variations to “won’t somebody please thing of the children”

Whingeing about NIMBY’s?

To quote an angsty Canadian bint………isn’t it ironic

Yes Canberra is the capital city of NIMBY. People start their NIMBY groups before anything has even commenced, as happend with the sale of a few properties in my area last year with the potential to be future townhouses.

Personally, I like new things, City West will look good when buildings are complete though there will be nowhere to park.

I didn’t really care much whether they replaced Macarthur with a gas fire power plant, the planning process is something this Government will never understand though. I haven’t seen major action groups against the proposed immigration bridge, but I think most people see it as a pointless waste of money to build a bridge to segregate the lake when there is no demand or need for a bridge in that area.

GnT is just trolling. There is a lot of development going on in Canberra, most of which is quite OK and does not draw any attention from the public. I haven’t got the figures, but each year there is 100s of millions of dollar development going on.

However, there are a number of high-impact, high-visibility projects that quite rightly draw some public comment. These include (in recent times), the power station, currently on another thread the railway station, karralika, ASIO building, and so. When these projects are subjected to some professional, independent scrutiny (such as the Auditor-General) it is ALWAYS clearly shown that the proper planning process was not followed, and concerns raised by residents have been genuine and relevant.

GnT, go troll somewhere else. Just because you don’t agree with other poeple doesn’t mean they are wrong.

There is a difference between people voicing their opinion against something and “whinging”. Those who write off others views so flippantly are usually those who can’t handle dissent.

My “whinge”, for what its worth, is that this government would even contemplate spending money on a promtional exercise such as an immigration bridge when there isn’t enough medical equipment in the hospital to treat sick children and those suffering from cancer and other life-threatening illnesses.

I’d say not. I don’t allow Nimby’s in my back yard, the yapping and whining makes it hard to sleep.

We have development all the time out our way. The problem with development these days is that so much of it has all the aesthetic appeal of Anthony Rolfe Ave or the beautiful Sky Plaza.

pptvb said :

CAVE people….. Citizens Against Virtually Everything.

thats this “town” for sure

Canberrans are no more a bunch of NIMBYs than anywhere else. Well, not much more, certainly.

The difference is here the city is controlled by the NCA, who are the definition of NIMBY. They give the NIMBYs far more power than they would otherwise have. If it doesn’t ‘look right’ of have the requisite ‘character’, or interferes with the ‘special values’ of Canberra, it’s out. The episode of the Hollowmen last year was almost entirely accurate.

I’ve fought in other cities to preserve heritage, to block developments, things that would harm communities and destroy the environment. But there has to be a balance – we can’t live in the 1950s (or the 1920s vision of Sir Walter Burley Griffin, in Canberra’s case).

You’ve got me fired up mentioning Griffin’s plan! Griffin designed a city in 1911 (ish). There were hardly any cars then; our culture and lifestyle was completely different. Constantly having to refer to what Walter Burleigh Griffin intended is waht keeps us stuck in the past, tied to a plan that has little significance a hundred years on.

RatsNest said :

GnT, you’re complaining that Canberrans are against public art… have you been out to have a look at the crap they built along the GDE?

If a game of pick up sticks and the left overs from a steel mills slag heap are what we are going to get, then of course people are going to complain!

Art is subjective. I happen to love the grass sculpture, but hate those pear shaped rocks. I’d rather have both than neither.

The state of our city is a fault of the Federal government who strayed from Griffin’s plans and did only what a bunch of Bureaucrats could best think of i.e. poor planning and design.

I think many people are aware of that and all you have to do is look around at the chippy choppy placement of things for a reason to be concerned with development. Remembering that development for apartments for the most part isn’t about creating a piece of stunning architecture but instead turning a profit and milking the state of our housing market for all its worth.

I do recall plans to place a new rail link at the Airport…

Building a pedestrian bridge could negatively aesthetically affect the lake. Dividing one of the two Basins doesn’t make sense to me- having a nice expanse of water to look at is quite nice. Just so tourists can walk over the lake makes no sense (they’re all here in buses/cars anyway). It also strays from Griffin’s plan throwing this idea of the parliamentary triangle completely out the window.

Some complaints aren’t entirely well grounded, however some are. Both ‘yes’ and ‘ney’ sides always need to sit back and have a deeper look.

The answer to the OP is simple. What we hear is only the negative, generally people who support something keep their mouths shut. So we hear the minority and the political parties pushing their barrows.

The Bridge would be fine if I could sail under it. As designed, there is a significant impact on other lake users. 12m height above water is fine for a dingy, not so much for the bigger catamarans and trailer sailors.

The main problems I have with it, is that nobody, apart from the bridge designers/financers have expressed any need or desire for a footbridge over that part of the lake, and as far as I’ve been able to find out, have not been given planning permission to actually build it, or had any consultation with other users of the lake.

I do support the political message of the bridge, telling the stories of and supporting immigrants to our fair isle.

“Hey – Why not change the name of “Woden Shopping Square” back to “The Plaza”. Oh – it already is….”

You mean they changed the name from the Woden Plaza to something else. Next you’ll be telling me it isn’t called Belco Mall anymore.

To answer the question – YES – resoundingly YES.

I had the ‘privilege’ of being at the ‘public consultation’ for the proposed data centre. WOW – What an eye-opener that was. From where I was, up the back, there were loud people who were prepared to clearly voice their opinion, often without basis. Who simply didn’t bother to listen to what others were saying.

Being a natural born trouble maker, when one person was using the tried and true Being Loud ™ communication method at the back, complaining about the toxic gasses that would be released, (just like with our gas stove top), I suggested that possibly there would be even more dangerous gasses produced when the exhaust combined with all of the wood fire smoke….. WOW – Didnt that set them off. I left just after that, as it was apparent that the consultations wouldn’t amount to anything – you simply cant communicate with people who have their fingers in their ears singing “la la la la”.

That was the day that I truly learnt how easy it was to control the masses by injecting a couple of ‘influencers’.

Personally – I love development. I embrace change, and I am not scared of it. Sadly, I suspect that many in the community are very very scared when it comes to changing anything.

Hey – Why not change the name of “Woden Shopping Square” back to “The Plaza”. Oh – it already is….

Yup that’s us Nimbys. I have lived in Canberra for 30 years and my experience is that if a fund was raised to make the life of widows and orphans a little better then it would be opposed. It is alright as long it is not here. The first thing I saw opposed was Black Mountain tower as it was called then. Total eyesore they said it will totally destroy the atmosphere of Canberra.

“despite no firm design having been put forward”

There are pictures going around that are incredibly ugly. If the design hasn’t been finalised then they should be looking for approval yet. I hate it when the community only get the details after the approval and feedback.

The proposed area of the lake is also going to ruin many current uses. For example sailing.

They’ll get a tunnel built before they get this through.

The other way of looking at it is that the problem might lie more with HOW these devlopments proceed rather than whether. It takes only one very dodgy decision by government for people who know about it to assume that all similar decisions are dodgy, just because it is the same public servants/ministers making them. Get multiple dodgy decisions, and more people start to lose any trust in government.

I actually think it is really great that Canberrans care about something, particularly given the types of comments you see in this thread that amount to vilifying those who do care enough to speak out.

To be sure, it will be inconvenient for the goverment and its developer mates, but that doesn’t bother me too much. It might actually mean that some developments are improved in the long run, or that some really valuable piece of land gets to retain its heritage rather than being converted into ‘bird cages’.

GnT, you’re complaining that Canberrans are against public art… have you been out to have a look at the crap they built along the GDE?

If a game of pick up sticks and the left overs from a steel mills slag heap are what we are going to get, then of course people are going to complain!

A swathe of public opinion isn’t necessarily the same as the regular dumping of comments from the perpetual whinging machine that is The RiotACT

It’s weird, given that most Canberra buildings are as ugly as sin – and drab and tatty, too.

The Immigration bridge is unneccessary – it cuts the lake, goes from a place nobody is (Lennox Gardens) to a place nobody goes (National Museum).

I see immigration bridge as being good only if it is high enough (with deep enough water) to jump off it in summer.

phototext said :

It is all very well developing but there needs to be a balance between keeping the old and building the new, otherwise we end up living in a very boring place.

What do you mean otherwise we und up living in a very boring place?
I think that Canberra is currently so far out of balance that boring is exactly what we are.
Everytime some new development or event is planned in Canberra there is guaranteed to be a chorus of whinging from some minority group. Then all they need is some small amount of publicity and the new development/event gets canned because the government can’t be bothered dealing with the trouble.
If whinging was an Olympic sport, some Canberrans would be multiple gold medallists.

I don’t know that it’s unique to Canberra. I don’t know of any development, anywhere, that had support from absolutely everyone who lived in its vicinity. Some people will like them, some won’t; and those who dislike a particular design will always be more vocal. The balance comes when a proposal’s supporters decide whether to respond to its detrators or not. In the case of the ASIO building design, I happen to like it, but not enough to say so in any particularly vehement way. It’s nice. A bit funky, but I wouldn’t feel any sense of loss if it wasn’t built.

I’m not so fond of the notion of an immigration bridge over which it is possible to migrate from the northside to the southside or vice-versa, but not with any of your furniture. I still think that an immigration bridge would be more useful between Indonesia and northern Australia. That would be much more practical than the current arrangements.

I think its because Canberra is so new compared to other Australian cities people want to hang on to any little piece of “heritage” to have a sense of history. No matter how crappy that piece of “heritage” may seem.

Bus Depot markets has charm that Bland Depot or DFO could never have. There are too few ‘old buildings’ in Canberra and this is a good community use of ‘historic’ space.

The Immigration bridge is unneccessary – it cuts the lake, goes from a place nobody is (Lennox Gardens) to a place nobody goes (National Museum).

The ASIO building may end up to be ‘beautiful’, but for security reasons surely it could have been out near the other Defence Buildings at Bungendore rather than destroying parkland.

I have no problems with the Civic Redevelopment (except for the loss of parking), with Kingston Foreshore housing, Burnie Court getting razed and rebuilt to something decent etc.

But some things in Canberra are poorly concieved or pig ugly – Sky Plaza is pig ugly, and Gungahlin marketplace was poorly designed for a windy location.

“And it would be lovely to have a new building for the award winning markets, which could give more space for stall holders, better access and parking for shoppers, and a nicer climate and atmosphere, while allowing some new architecture and useful development to be built on the lake foreshore.”

HA !

Like that would happen.

Apart from what I consider the charm that the current building adds to the markets, a new building will be built on the cheap, with little regard for the stall holders or customers needs. No doubt it will be ugly and useless and kill off the markets thus ensuring they can sell of the land to be developed.

I’m all for new and funky architecture, they make great subjects to photograph. ASIO will be off limits though.

It is all very well developing but there needs to be a balance between keeping the old and building the new, otherwise we end up living in a very boring place.

There was a funny little article in the CT yesterday about a site in O’connor on the ridge that is going to be demolished and returned to bushland. (41 Fairfax st)

http://www.companionhouse.org.au/contact.html (this org will move to Cook)

I found that bizarre that this govt would give up a prime real estate possie in O’connor, when they are desperate to develop any other land they can think of in the inner suburbs. I still can’t think of a reason for them to return this little bit of land to bushland.

To answer your title, yes.

it has been long lamented that canberrans can best be described as obstructionist when it comes to infrastructure, events and major spends sorted in their neck of the woods.

Perhaps being opposed to something is better news than suppporting something. It could be only the whingers opinions have the voice.

Yes

Gnt, have you not lived in Canberra for long? Canberrans complain about EVERYTHING!!!

CAVE people….. Citizens Against Virtually Everything.

I worry if people will allow Canberra to evolve into a ‘futuristic’ city, but I also agree that a lot of the planning isn’t exactly visionary.

There needs to be a proper modern master plan, which we can all (mostly) agree on, and then work towards with some pride? Where’s the passion to be an awesome modern city?

Removing some archaic restrictions might be a good start too

The first 2 of the Bridge & ASIO building I don’t get why people are complaining as the bridge sounds like a good idea & ASIO already have a building at the other end of the Russel Precinct. However the Kingston Depot was a part of Canberra’s history & all they want to do is replace it with birdcages.

However when I think about it everyone in Canberra isn’t opposed to development. I am quite sure everyone would be glad to see those Housing Commission flats of Northbourne Ave replaced or those fully cement office blocks to be knocked down. But Governments will only do what will win them votes at the next election & that their friends can make millions on.

A lot of people are opposed to development in this town because it is often not well thought out.

I wrote a bunch of examples then deleted what I wrote, because I figure it will just start arguments that inevitably turn personal.