Athllon Drive Point-to-Point 'Safety' Cameras?

Show us the date and time of the 5 drivers that got pinged. I’m assume it was late night or early morning where there was very little traffic – and definitely no buses around.
The figures keep stacking up against this installation, but the Government press ahead with their stupid plan anyway.

On a side note, how accurate are the cameras? I was sitting at the lights at Beasley Street the other day, it was quite windy and one of the poles was swaying noticeably. Surely that can’t be much good for the systems accuracy, let alone image quality.

Evil_Kitten said :

Erg0 said :

tgan said :

I’m very interested to know if even one person has been served an infringement notice from the Hindmarsh cameras?

I know someone who has, so the answer is yes.

Did the notice tell them what their speed was? I’d be very interested to know – I regularly do closer to 90 on that stretch of road and have never been pinged.

I’d say there’s a couple of reasons for that. Firstly, your speedo like most cars is programmed to overread slightly and secondly it’s quite likely that there’s about a 10% allowance over the actual speed limit before your pinged.

Erg0 said :

tgan said :

I’m very interested to know if even one person has been served an infringement notice from the Hindmarsh cameras?

I know someone who has, so the answer is yes.

Did the notice tell them what their speed was? I’d be very interested to know – I regularly do closer to 90 on that stretch of road and have never been pinged.

Place the cameras on the Monaro Highway if you are serious about raising some cash. I mean enforcing safety.

marcothepolopony said :

A much more lucrative investment would have been to install Point to Point cameras from Aranda to Barton Highway turn off on the GDE. Very few vehicles adhere to the speed limit northbound in my experience.

Yeah but that is a completely different issue where the road is clearly able to handle 100km/h yet some nimby’s complained about noise and it was set to 80 before they settled on 90. By all means keep speeds low in residential and high pedestrian areas, but the GDE and the Monaro bypass of Fyshwick could be 100. Smae with the northbound side of the Monaro past the jail, it was 100, but now because 1 or 2 cars a day may pull out they dropped the speed limit to 80 ?!?! Other side with light i can understand, but this is a sliplane FFS!!!

HiddenDragon said :

goggles13 said :

so during testing the cameras have only pinged five drivers:
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/claims-speed-cameras-miss-the-point-to-point-20130813-2rumf.html

what a surprise

and yet the Govt stil trots out the line that the P2P cameras will prevent accidents. I’d like to see the stats on the types of accidents on the stretch of Athllon Drive before I will believe such claims.

Yes, that was a massive surprise, wasn’t it – but with the usual combination of mulish determination and righteousness, they will doubtless plow on until they get the result they want.

I suppose it would be too much to expect that our elected (and unelected) betters might, occasionally, acknowledge that not everything can be regulated to the nth degree and that there are more fruitful things to do with public funds than regulation and enforcement.

On the other hand, the fact that five drivers were pinged also puts the lie to claims that exceeding the speed limit on average over the stretch is some kind of physical impossibility. Those five drivers must have been well hooning along on the straights, and it’s a good thing that the cameras are putting a stop to that.

If the effect is that these cameras are only catching the most egregious speeders, then isn’t that what a lot of speed camera opponents have been asking for? All those complaints about catching people who’ve only drifted a little over the limit?

marcothepolopony said :

A much more lucrative investment would have been to install Point to Point cameras from Aranda to Barton Highway turn off on the GDE. Very few vehicles adhere to the speed limit northbound in my experience.

Shhh! Stop giving them ideas!

watto23 said :

wow I could have guessed most of what was in that article. When driving home that way occasionally, traffic is surprisingly heavy and gets lighter the further you go, thus traffic is turning off before the second enforcement point. Oh the 15% who were speeding, still are because they know the roundabouts slow their average speed and/or they are turning off!!

If anything why not a simple speed camera on the road?
Not they they enforce anything much either, everyone including those not speeding slow down for speed cameras.

15% is the same number quoted for those speeding along Flinders Way, which was used as justification for installing the inverted pot-holes. Maybe it’s better to deal with that 15% of motorists who probably speed everywhere, rather than just addressing a couple of the places where they routinely speed?

wow I could have guessed most of what was in that article. When driving home that way occasionally, traffic is surprisingly heavy and gets lighter the further you go, thus traffic is turning off before the second enforcement point. Oh the 15% who were speeding, still are because they know the roundabouts slow their average speed and/or they are turning off!!

If anything why not a simple speed camera on the road?
Not they they enforce anything much either, everyone including those not speeding slow down for speed cameras.

A much more lucrative investment would have been to install Point to Point cameras from Aranda to Barton Highway turn off on the GDE. Very few vehicles adhere to the speed limit northbound in my experience.

goggles13 said :

so during testing the cameras have only pinged five drivers:
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/claims-speed-cameras-miss-the-point-to-point-20130813-2rumf.html

what a surprise

and yet the Govt stil trots out the line that the P2P cameras will prevent accidents. I’d like to see the stats on the types of accidents on the stretch of Athllon Drive before I will believe such claims.

Yes, that was a massive surprise, wasn’t it – but with the usual combination of mulish determination and righteousness, they will doubtless plow on until they get the result they want.

I suppose it would be too much to expect that our elected (and unelected) betters might, occasionally, acknowledge that not everything can be regulated to the nth degree and that there are more fruitful things to do with public funds than regulation and enforcement.

so during testing the cameras have only pinged five drivers:
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/claims-speed-cameras-miss-the-point-to-point-20130813-2rumf.html

what a surprise

and yet the Govt stil trots out the line that the P2P cameras will prevent accidents. I’d like to see the stats on the types of accidents on the stretch of Athllon Drive before I will believe such claims.

I love the series of non sequiter statements from the Govt in the news article, So, there have been 2 (?) fatal accidents on that road – was one a stolen car at Beasley and Athllon and out of the P2P area? The other drink driving turning at the Sulwood roundabout and thus also outside the P2P zone. The accident numbers don’t add up, the statement that there are a bucket load of accidents and that 15% of traffic traverses the Sulwood to Beasley at over the speed limit asserts speed is related, but ignores the traffic volume and the nature of the accidents. A little stat on accidents due to speeding would have been a deal maker…. It might be a wild guess, but I’d hazard a stab at saying most accidents on the stretch are at the roundabouts or due to travelling too close and likely both happen at or below the speed limit.

I am not supporting speeding, just think smarter enforcement methods could be used – eg speed & redlight cameras both directions on Athllon at Mawson Drive and the Beasley St intersections.

Reprobate said :

From the article: “A spokeswoman for the Justice and Community Safety Directorate said a government study released in 2010 showed Athllon Drive carried more than 26,000 vehicles a day and had a total of 441 crashes reported over the period used in the study – 27.6 crashes each kilometre each year.”

Really? A media release from the same Directorate in May 2012 stated “During the five years 2006 to 2010 there were 246 crashes on this section of road, including 24 injury crashes and 1 fatal crash.”
(found at http://www.seniorau.com.au/index.php/more-seniorau-news/2397-second-point-to-point-camera-for-act)

Questions arising: do these “crashes” include collisions with kangaroos (very common around this area)? Is there a breakdown of crashes at intersections vs crashes along the rest of the road? And were these crashes deemed to be only due to speed or any other factor?

If you believe these figures and extrapolate 26,000 vehicles per day over a year, that means there are 9,490,000 vehicle movements a year, or 47,450,000 vehicle movements over the 5 year study period. From all those movements, there was only one death and 24 injuries – that doesn’t sound like the road is awash with blood to me.

From the perspective of a driver who uses this road every day, I am concerned there will now be more accidents caused by drivers keeping an eye on their speedo rather than the Fincham Cres intersection just as they approach the camera travelling towards Tuggeranong. This intersection is controlled by Give Way signs only and generally requires cars entering Athllon Dr towards Woden to wait in the median strip. It handles a lot of traffic at peak times as well as during school start and finish times due to the proximity of many nearby schools.

If the Gov’t was serious about increasing safety on this road, and not the possibility of raising revenue, then the funds for the P2P cameras would have gone to another roundabout here.

I’d guess the numbers are different because the whole of Athllon is bigger than the section with P2P.

These cameras won’t be making any money but they will still cause the idiots to sit on their brakes coming down the hill. Not to mention their future use as mass surveillance devices.

tgan said :

I’m very interested to know if even one person has been served an infringement notice from the Hindmarsh cameras?

I know someone who has, so the answer is yes.

tgan said :

I’m very interested to know if even one person has been served an infringement notice from the Hindmarsh cameras?

Eh? I read here in RiotACT a couple of months ago that they’d earned nearly $300k so far. So I’d say quite a few been pinged.

I’m very interested to know if even one person has been served an infringement notice from the Hindmarsh cameras?

From the article: “A spokeswoman for the Justice and Community Safety Directorate said a government study released in 2010 showed Athllon Drive carried more than 26,000 vehicles a day and had a total of 441 crashes reported over the period used in the study – 27.6 crashes each kilometre each year.”

Really? A media release from the same Directorate in May 2012 stated “During the five years 2006 to 2010 there were 246 crashes on this section of road, including 24 injury crashes and 1 fatal crash.”
(found at http://www.seniorau.com.au/index.php/more-seniorau-news/2397-second-point-to-point-camera-for-act)

Questions arising: do these “crashes” include collisions with kangaroos (very common around this area)? Is there a breakdown of crashes at intersections vs crashes along the rest of the road? And were these crashes deemed to be only due to speed or any other factor?

If you believe these figures and extrapolate 26,000 vehicles per day over a year, that means there are 9,490,000 vehicle movements a year, or 47,450,000 vehicle movements over the 5 year study period. From all those movements, there was only one death and 24 injuries – that doesn’t sound like the road is awash with blood to me.

From the perspective of a driver who uses this road every day, I am concerned there will now be more accidents caused by drivers keeping an eye on their speedo rather than the Fincham Cres intersection just as they approach the camera travelling towards Tuggeranong. This intersection is controlled by Give Way signs only and generally requires cars entering Athllon Dr towards Woden to wait in the median strip. It handles a lot of traffic at peak times as well as during school start and finish times due to the proximity of many nearby schools.

If the Gov’t was serious about increasing safety on this road, and not the possibility of raising revenue, then the funds for the P2P cameras would have gone to another roundabout here.

miz said :

“If ACT GovCo are reading this, please duplicate that stretch to make our commute easier and increase your chance of raising revenue!” – Reprobate, they only duplicate north side roads – not to mention the addition of expensive and unnecessary trimmings like light rail. In the south, you get nothing. Of course, many south side roads could do with duplication: Athllon, Ashley, Johnson, Isabella, (parts of) Erindale Drive, just to name a few, but they just keeping pushing it out into the never never. Some of these have had the places and spaces ready for the duplication since Tuggeranong was built in the late 1970s.

Serves you right for voting for Labor.

the NRMA has criticised the P2P cameras:
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/speed-cameras-under-fire-from-nrma-boss-20130710-2pqru.html

but the ACT Govt still tries to justify them using ridiculous arguments such as describing the roundabouts as free-flowing!! not in my experience at any time of the day or night on that road.

also Acting AG Burch, your figure of 15% of motorists were travelling at more than 84.1km/h makes no sense.

Antagonist said :

magiccar9 said :

Well if it’s going to help us so much, what was the business case for installing them? Not once have I seen a crash on this stretch of road that wasn’t attributed to the roundabouts….

I have personally witnessed two fatalities at Athllon Dr and Fincham Cres Wanniassa over the years. One was an elderly man that failed to give way to his right about 10 years back. No roundabout. By coincidence, this intersection is less than 200 metres from the cameras. $40k has been allocated to improve this black-listed intersection.

Personally, I would love to see Athllon duplicated. But first we need the existing roads maintained. They are falling apart a lot faster than TaMS can keep up with.

So in other words, a crash that wouldn’t have been avoided with safety cameras…
Duplicate the road and increase actual police presence is the only solution, period.

Antagonist said :

Personally, I would love to see Athllon duplicated. But first we need the existing roads maintained. They are falling apart a lot faster than TaMS can keep up with.

Agree, this would have been a better use of money, then installing the “safety” cameras later.

And yes the absence of rego stickers and the increase of these things being constructed strongly suggests that rego is being checked as you go through them.

magiccar9 said :

Well if it’s going to help us so much, what was the business case for installing them? Not once have I seen a crash on this stretch of road that wasn’t attributed to the roundabouts….

I have personally witnessed two fatalities at Athllon Dr and Fincham Cres Wanniassa over the years. One was an elderly man that failed to give way to his right about 10 years back. No roundabout. By coincidence, this intersection is less than 200 metres from the cameras. $40k has been allocated to improve this black-listed intersection.

Personally, I would love to see Athllon duplicated. But first we need the existing roads maintained. They are falling apart a lot faster than TaMS can keep up with.

miz said :

“If ACT GovCo are reading this, please duplicate that stretch to make our commute easier and increase your chance of raising revenue!” – Reprobate, they only duplicate north side roads – not to mention the addition of expensive and unnecessary trimmings like light rail. In the south, you get nothing. Of course, many south side roads could do with duplication: Athllon, Ashley, Johnson, Isabella, (parts of) Erindale Drive, just to name a few, but they just keeping pushing it out into the never never. Some of these have had the places and spaces ready for the duplication since Tuggeranong was built in the late 1970s.

Oh no, they won’t be duplicating roads in Tuggers, we voted against Labor/Greens in the election. If we lived in Gungahlin they would be out within minutes to accede to our every wishes. Also the duplication of Athllon is definitely on their black list as that was one of Zed’s election promises.

“If ACT GovCo are reading this, please duplicate that stretch to make our commute easier and increase your chance of raising revenue!” – Reprobate, they only duplicate north side roads – not to mention the addition of expensive and unnecessary trimmings like light rail. In the south, you get nothing. Of course, many south side roads could do with duplication: Athllon, Ashley, Johnson, Isabella, (parts of) Erindale Drive, just to name a few, but they just keeping pushing it out into the never never. Some of these have had the places and spaces ready for the duplication since Tuggeranong was built in the late 1970s.

In a quick rant at drivers using the road between these cameras. They aren’t functional yet! Just because they have a sign up saying “Coming Soon” doesn’t mean that you can’t do any more than 75km/h. If I get stuck behind another paranoid numpty doing no more than 75 in the RHL I’m going to go stark raving mad.

Skidbladnir said :

At least 50% of the question y’all raise are in the FAQ, and some of them are in the original Forward Design Study.

Interesting that the Forward Design Study doesn’t even mention Athllon Drive as a potential site. It would also seem to fail pretty seriously on the first traffic factor at 9.1 (“Non-free flow intersections per kilometre”). I wonder how it made its way into the selection process?

goggles13 said :

you insult me and yet you don’t know what the speed limit is on the road in question!!

it just seems to be a bizarre decision to put a P2P camera on this stretch of road with multiple roundabouts which means that most times of the day, no one is going to get caught, simply because they will not be able to achieve stupid speeds between the roundabouts due to traffic volume and right lane hogs

Reason I don’t know the speed limit is I don’t drive on that road. Only reason I was “insulting” you was your (and others in this thread) failing to grasp the extremely basic concept of how P2P cameras work!

If the road has multiple roundabouts and hills and it is unlikely people will speed because of these then that’s a good thing and prople can concentrate on watching the road and not their speedo.

You could write to the govt and ask why they chose this road. Maybe it has a high accident rate (I don’t know, I’m guessing)?

goggles13 said :

it just seems to be a bizarre decision to put a P2P camera on this stretch of road with multiple roundabouts which means that most times of the day, no one is going to get caught, simply because they will not be able to achieve stupid speeds between the roundabouts due to traffic volume and right lane hogs

You see. P2P cameras are not just about raising revenue…

I love idiot taxes… Moar!!!

At least 50% of the question y’all raise are in the FAQ, and some of them are in the original Forward Design Study.

Also, Corbell was happilly telling the Commitee that they won’t be operational until August

Felix the Cat said :

goggles13 said :

saw last night that an electronic sign has been put up saying the cameras are coming soon.

could the Act Gov be any more vague. how can they not know an exact start date?

or is it a mystery, just like it is a mystery how this camera is supposed to work with three roundabouts between the two points

FFS what is there not to get? The road between camera A and camera B is X km long. At 80km/h or whatever the speed limit is there it takes Y minutes to drive along there. If anybody drives faster than Y then they get a ticket. It doesn’t matter if there are 20 roundabouts and a 75 degree gradient, they are not factored in, they will actually help motorists NOT to exceed the speed limit by slowing them down. It’s really not rocket surgery. It’s very, very basic mathematics.

you insult me and yet you don’t know what the speed limit is on the road in question!!

it just seems to be a bizarre decision to put a P2P camera on this stretch of road with multiple roundabouts which means that most times of the day, no one is going to get caught, simply because they will not be able to achieve stupid speeds between the roundabouts due to traffic volume and right lane hogs

Felix the Cat said :

goggles13 said :

saw last night that an electronic sign has been put up saying the cameras are coming soon.

could the Act Gov be any more vague. how can they not know an exact start date?

or is it a mystery, just like it is a mystery how this camera is supposed to work with three roundabouts between the two points

FFS what is there not to get? The road between camera A and camera B is X km long. At 80km/h or whatever the speed limit is there it takes Y minutes to drive along there. If anybody drives faster than Y then they get a ticket. It doesn’t matter if there are 20 roundabouts and a 75 degree gradient, they are not factored in, they will actually help motorists NOT to exceed the speed limit by slowing them down. It’s really not rocket surgery. It’s very, very basic mathematics.

Well if it’s going to help us so much, what was the business case for installing them? Not once have I seen a crash on this stretch of road that wasn’t attributed to the roundabouts….

goggles13 said :

saw last night that an electronic sign has been put up saying the cameras are coming soon.

could the Act Gov be any more vague. how can they not know an exact start date?

or is it a mystery, just like it is a mystery how this camera is supposed to work with three roundabouts between the two points

FFS what is there not to get? The road between camera A and camera B is X km long. At 80km/h or whatever the speed limit is there it takes Y minutes to drive along there. If anybody drives faster than Y then they get a ticket. It doesn’t matter if there are 20 roundabouts and a 75 degree gradient, they are not factored in, they will actually help motorists NOT to exceed the speed limit by slowing them down. It’s really not rocket surgery. It’s very, very basic mathematics.

saw last night that an electronic sign has been put up saying the cameras are coming soon. could the Act Gov be any more vague. how can they not know an exact start date?

or is it a mystery, just like it is a mystery how this camera is supposed to work with three roundabouts between the two points

Perhaps it is less about catching people speeding, and more about reducing motorists speed in an area frequented by kangaroos?

The other issue with the downhill stretches on Hindmarsh Drive is that most drivers are sitting on their brakes the whole time, so no-one knows when they are actually braking hard because of some obstruction, such as a ‘roo jumping across the road.

Whoever decided on that road for P-to-P is a moron (hence employed by ACT Roads).

My only issues with point to point cameras are 1. they lead to more tailgating and 2. they don’t detect illegal use of foglights.

To answer people’s questions about average speed:
Average speed – about 10km/h over the speed limit
“Safe” speed – about 15km/h below the speed limit
Efficient speed – Yup, you’re gonna get a ticket.

La_Tour_Maubourg said :

CraigT said :

Pork Hunt said :

magiccar9 said :

La_Tour_Maubourg said :

On the Hindmarsh stretch, LOVE turning off at Tamar Street! No going 57km/h up Red Hill eastbound!
New cars generally have an average speed indicator on their dash displays. Wonder if perfectly going 80 between the cameras on Athllon would induce an infringement (surely someone can navigate a roundabout at 80…) or they may assume excess speeds between the roundabouts.

Can quite easily do 80 through the roundabouts with no one around. If I ever got a ticket on this stretch – which is entirely likely – I’d be more than I inclined to challenge it. I want some solid proof as to how its calculated before I accept the ticket.

What part of “average speed” between point A and point B are you confused about?

The part where there’s maths involved, apparently.

Is there an equivalent of the AFP PR unit, to provide jobs for people who can’t count?

What part of ” (The Govt.) may assume excess speeds between the roundabouts” is incomprehensible?

Obviously the ” (The Govt.) may assume excess speeds between the roundabouts” part.

Let’s start with “average”. Do you understand what this means?

If it is based on the assumption that X kilometres @ 80kmh and ignoring intersection slow down speeds, you’d have to be stupid to get caught. If they somehow get another figure less than that to account for intersections, it would quite possibly be very contestable in court.

I don’t have an issue with speed cameras, i just wish someone would use logic where they put the cameras, and if a road can be 100 it should be. Yeah speed can contribute to accidents, but its ususally the stupidity of the driver driving well in excess of the speed limit and not doing a few km/h over.

bd84 said :

They’re even more useless than the ones on Hindmarsh Dr. I would be challenging the accuracy of any ticket issued at either site. The ones on hindmarsh must have an extraordinary amount of leeway with the gradient of the road, and the numerous slow points on athllon would mean you would need to get a clean run, normally only possible late at night or going over 100-110 for the longer stretches.

There’s a reason why states like Victoria only have them on long, flat, smooth and high speed stretches of road, and this government seems to want to do the opposite, which means not at all accurate.

The gradient does not affect the accuracy of the measurement. Believe it or not, we have the technology to determine the length of a road that goes over a hill (any claims that your car tunnelled through Red Hill will I’m sure be given the credence they deserve).

Pork Hunt said :

La_Tour_Maubourg said :

CraigT said :

Pork Hunt said :

magiccar9 said :

La_Tour_Maubourg said :

On the Hindmarsh stretch, LOVE turning off at Tamar Street! No going 57km/h up Red Hill eastbound!
New cars generally have an average speed indicator on their dash displays. Wonder if perfectly going 80 between the cameras on Athllon would induce an infringement (surely someone can navigate a roundabout at 80…) or they may assume excess speeds between the roundabouts.

Can quite easily do 80 through the roundabouts with no one around. If I ever got a ticket on this stretch – which is entirely likely – I’d be more than I inclined to challenge it. I want some solid proof as to how its calculated before I accept the ticket.

What part of “average speed” between point A and point B are you confused about?

The part where there’s maths involved, apparently.

Is there an equivalent of the AFP PR unit, to provide jobs for people who can’t count?

What part of ” (The Govt.) may assume excess speeds between the roundabouts” is incomprehensible?

Obviously the ” (The Govt.) may assume excess speeds between the roundabouts” part.

Surely it has been calculated that if the time taken to cover the distance at the speed limit is met then who cares what arrangements one makes in between/at roundabouts.

It seems unlikely that a vehicle will exceed the average speed during daylight traffic. I guess Skywhale must be paid for somehow; even though it’s in Tasmania (hopefully where it will stay.)

La_Tour_Maubourg said :

CraigT said :

Pork Hunt said :

magiccar9 said :

La_Tour_Maubourg said :

On the Hindmarsh stretch, LOVE turning off at Tamar Street! No going 57km/h up Red Hill eastbound!
New cars generally have an average speed indicator on their dash displays. Wonder if perfectly going 80 between the cameras on Athllon would induce an infringement (surely someone can navigate a roundabout at 80…) or they may assume excess speeds between the roundabouts.

Can quite easily do 80 through the roundabouts with no one around. If I ever got a ticket on this stretch – which is entirely likely – I’d be more than I inclined to challenge it. I want some solid proof as to how its calculated before I accept the ticket.

What part of “average speed” between point A and point B are you confused about?

The part where there’s maths involved, apparently.

Is there an equivalent of the AFP PR unit, to provide jobs for people who can’t count?

What part of ” (The Govt.) may assume excess speeds between the roundabouts” is incomprehensible?

Obviously the ” (The Govt.) may assume excess speeds between the roundabouts” part.

Surely it has been calculated that if the time taken to cover the distance at the speed limit is met then who cares what arrangements one makes in between/at roundabouts.

bd84 said :

There’s a reason why states like Victoria only have them on long, flat, smooth and high speed stretches of road, and this government seems to want to do the opposite, which means not at all accurate.

Whether its our Gov or their advisors is half the question. Although, given how easy it it to drive the road and think one has to wonder.

gooterz said :

Also lovely how the money grubbing north are once again using the south to fund things northside.

Rail to gunners. More fines for Tuggeranong/Woden.

Yes that is correct. Cameras are installed there in the southern suburbs by unscrupulous and selfish Gungahlin residents, to enrich themselves and purchase trams.

CraigT said :

Pork Hunt said :

magiccar9 said :

La_Tour_Maubourg said :

On the Hindmarsh stretch, LOVE turning off at Tamar Street! No going 57km/h up Red Hill eastbound!
New cars generally have an average speed indicator on their dash displays. Wonder if perfectly going 80 between the cameras on Athllon would induce an infringement (surely someone can navigate a roundabout at 80…) or they may assume excess speeds between the roundabouts.

Can quite easily do 80 through the roundabouts with no one around. If I ever got a ticket on this stretch – which is entirely likely – I’d be more than I inclined to challenge it. I want some solid proof as to how its calculated before I accept the ticket.

What part of “average speed” between point A and point B are you confused about?

The part where there’s maths involved, apparently.

Is there an equivalent of the AFP PR unit, to provide jobs for people who can’t count?

What part of ” (The Govt.) may assume excess speeds between the roundabouts” is incomprehensible?

Obviously the ” (The Govt.) may assume excess speeds between the roundabouts” part.

I’m actually really curious to know if anyone has been done by the ones on Hindmarsh, or knows someone who has? I have not heard of a single person getting booked.

taninaus said :

I had thought it acted like a speed camera as well as the average speed, but just checked on the Gov websites (not that much of the info is up to date) and it doesn’t talk about point in time speed. it does say it is calculated on the shortest possible route at the posted speed being used – so on Athllon you would have to be a rally driver on a clear road to achieve that!!

That sounds like a challenge to me…. but the wifes auto Lancer is flat out getting to 80 at the best of times. This might be a job for the Falcon ute. Does it matter if the Falcon is not white ???

They’re even more useless than the ones on Hindmarsh Dr. I would be challenging the accuracy of any ticket issued at either site. The ones on hindmarsh must have an extraordinary amount of leeway with the gradient of the road, and the numerous slow points on athllon would mean you would need to get a clean run, normally only possible late at night or going over 100-110 for the longer stretches.

There’s a reason why states like Victoria only have them on long, flat, smooth and high speed stretches of road, and this government seems to want to do the opposite, which means not at all accurate.

The thing that kind of bugs me about this set up is if they were genuinely concerned about safety – and, cynically, about raising some revenue – they’d achieve much more by putting in red light cameras and a fixed speed camera at the intersection of Athllon Dr and Beasley St/Mawson Dr at Mawson.

I had thought it acted like a speed camera as well as the average speed, but just checked on the Gov websites (not that much of the info is up to date) and it doesn’t talk about point in time speed. it does say it is calculated on the shortest possible route at the posted speed being used – so on Athllon you would have to be a rally driver on a clear road to achieve that!!

Pork Hunt said :

magiccar9 said :

La_Tour_Maubourg said :

On the Hindmarsh stretch, LOVE turning off at Tamar Street! No going 57km/h up Red Hill eastbound!
New cars generally have an average speed indicator on their dash displays. Wonder if perfectly going 80 between the cameras on Athllon would induce an infringement (surely someone can navigate a roundabout at 80…) or they may assume excess speeds between the roundabouts.

Can quite easily do 80 through the roundabouts with no one around. If I ever got a ticket on this stretch – which is entirely likely – I’d be more than I inclined to challenge it. I want some solid proof as to how its calculated before I accept the ticket.

What part of “average speed” between point A and point B are you confused about?

The part where there’s maths involved, apparently.

Is there an equivalent of the AFP PR unit, to provide jobs for people who can’t count?

Reprobate said :

although you can get pinged for excess speed past either camera (like a standard fixed camera),

Ah, so *you*’re the retard that feels the need to slow down to 65km/h at the average speed camera on Hindmarsh Drive.

Very Busy said :

Orr bugga. Now i’m gonna haf to do 120 between Beazley and Hindmarsh to make up time!!!!!

Just like everyone floors it after passing the last cameras on Hindmarsh.

Very Busy said :

Reprobate said :

And although you can get pinged for excess speed past either camera (like a standard fixed camera)

That’s news to me!!!!!

Yeah I don’t think that’s right. I’ve regularly gone through the ones on Hindmarsh at 90-100 and never been done. I don’t believe they are set up as fixed cameras in any capacity.

Not sure how many people are actually going to get pinged. Drive that road very often and a crazy number of drivers go 60 in the 80 zone. Any chance these cameras could ping them for traffic obstruction and blindness?

Orr bugga. Now i’m gonna haf to do 120 between Beazley and Hindmarsh to make up time!!!!!

Reprobate said :

And although you can get pinged for excess speed past either camera (like a standard fixed camera)

That’s news to me!!!!!

magiccar9 said :

La_Tour_Maubourg said :

On the Hindmarsh stretch, LOVE turning off at Tamar Street! No going 57km/h up Red Hill eastbound!
New cars generally have an average speed indicator on their dash displays. Wonder if perfectly going 80 between the cameras on Athllon would induce an infringement (surely someone can navigate a roundabout at 80…) or they may assume excess speeds between the roundabouts.

Can quite easily do 80 through the roundabouts with no one around. If I ever got a ticket on this stretch – which is entirely likely – I’d be more than I inclined to challenge it. I want some solid proof as to how its calculated before I accept the ticket.

What part of “average speed” between point A and point B are you confused about?

I’m thinking an FOI request to find out the spread of speeds at different times of day ight show some interesting stats.

Does anyone know if these feed in real time to the police so they can chase stolen/unreg/etc cars?

La_Tour_Maubourg said :

On the Hindmarsh stretch, LOVE turning off at Tamar Street! No going 57km/h up Red Hill eastbound!
New cars generally have an average speed indicator on their dash displays. Wonder if perfectly going 80 between the cameras on Athllon would induce an infringement (surely someone can navigate a roundabout at 80…) or they may assume excess speeds between the roundabouts.

Can quite easily do 80 through the roundabouts with no one around. If I ever got a ticket on this stretch – which is entirely likely – I’d be more than I inclined to challenge it. I want some solid proof as to how its calculated before I accept the ticket.

Also lovely how the money grubbing north are once again using the south to fund things northside.

Rail to gunners. More fines for Tuggeranong/Woden.

La_Tour_Maubourg said :

On the Hindmarsh stretch, LOVE turning off at Tamar Street! No going 57km/h up Red Hill eastbound!
New cars generally have an average speed indicator on their dash displays. Wonder if perfectly going 80 between the cameras on Athllon would induce an infringement (surely someone can navigate a roundabout at 80…) or they may assume excess speeds between the roundabouts.

That would be illegal and I would love to see heads roll if that is the case.

When someone gets a point to point fine does it show the times? All someone has to do is to get a fine and post the times from the images. From this we can work out the distance between the points.

Would love to hear clarification from actgov / tams if the whole road is classes at 80km/h or they’ll illegally book you for getting close to 80km/h.

Either way its an actgov screwup. Checkmate

Reprobate said :

you can get pinged for excess speed past either camera (like a standard fixed camera)

I don’t think that’s right. I think these are only average speed cameras – they are not used to enforce “point in time” speed limits. I mean I think that legally they are not permitted to be used for that purpose, I’m not saying they technically can’t do it. But I can’t find a basis for this so I could well be wrong. Does anyone know for sure?

(I’m not encouraging people to speed up as they go past the cameras then slow down to achieve a compliant average speed!)

On the Hindmarsh stretch, LOVE turning off at Tamar Street! No going 57km/h up Red Hill eastbound!
New cars generally have an average speed indicator on their dash displays. Wonder if perfectly going 80 between the cameras on Athllon would induce an infringement (surely someone can navigate a roundabout at 80…) or they may assume excess speeds between the roundabouts.

Yep, with this set up you would have to be borderline retarded rather than just plain dumb to get booked. Two roundabouts and three major street exits between the points, as well as two bus stops on the Tuggers bound run.

Doesn’t worry me because the turnoff to/from my home is on one of those 3 exit points, so either on my way to Woden or back I will only go past one of the cams = no point-to-point measure so I can go as hard as I like. And although you can get pinged for excess speed past either camera (like a standard fixed camera), a modicum of observation and intelligence should see most people right.

The other issue is that during morning peak hour Athllon Drive is always at a standstill or a crawl in the single lane between Wanniassa shops and Sulwood Drive – if anyone gets caught via P2P on the Woden bound run between 8 and 9am they need a medal, not a ticket. If ACT GovCo are reading this, please duplicate that stretch to make our commute easier and increase your chance of raising revenue!

That’s in Tuggeranong right? Since when did Tuggeranong drivers slow down for roundabouts?!

Or (cynically) maybe they just work on a percentage basis noting that 15% of drivers are speeding, they’ll just issue tickets to 15% of the cars that pass the camera. They know it’s virtually impossible to contest such a fine because as well all know the “camera never errs and never lies”… 😉

I’ve been wondering the same, but then realised they are probably there more for ANPR for rego violations, to build up the vehicle tracking database and get Canberrans used to them to make it easier for further installations.

I don;t know about any of that but I do know they’ve already been turned on. This morning at 5AM on my drive to Tuggers Pool I looked up at the cameras at the end and the infra-red light was on. The signs were put up overnight and are covered meaning the loot will start rolling in any day now.

I drive that road quite often, no less than that 120-130km/h, slow down to approx 95km/h when navigating through the roundabouts.

Reckon id get done for sure.