Barr's public education propaganda campaign

That’s an interesting point GnT and I invite you to subsidise some poor kids with your money, I may join you in doing so in the future when I have some money but please don’t force me to at the point of the gun.

Vice Pope – reason the “school body” (parents, ex-students etc) provide more than the basics at non-govt schools is because THEY CAN AFFORD TO!

There is a big difference between incomes of public vs private families, not to mention other socio-economic differences (this is more pronounced in other cities, but still exists in Canberra).

So why should public school kids miss out on computers, gym facilities, or even shade because their parents don’t have as much to give?

If things were necessary for a govt school, they would be provided and if not, the school could make its own arrangements.

Where I work there is carpet riding up at the top of some stairs.

Staff have repeatedly put in OH&S claims and nothing has been done.

We also need larger classrooms as there are more students in them now than were designed for. In order to have a wall knocked out to make more room it takes over 6 months.

To date it still hasn’t been done and we’re “hopeful” that it will be done soon.

The physical state of some Govt schools is unacceptable and the list is long. Perhaps if Govt schools were given more funding then these things would be fixed.

The choice now is this: Pay peanuts and have run down schools with little money going towards curriculum and resources or pay more, get all the things a school needs and get things fixed.

Nyssa – some nongovs do better than some govs and vice versa. I have been suggesting that one important factor is commitment by the school body (including parents, ex-students etc) to provide more than the basic. If people need shade covers they should be provided by government, but if they would be nice but not necessary, it’s really a discretionary matter.

As well as being stung for school fees (and Commonwealth taxes and ACT charges that pay rather more to government schools than private ones), nongov parents and families get hit for an endless procession of raffles, fetes, quasi-voluntary building levies, special subject charges. Ex-students commonly get requests for donations. These are the things that provide some of the necessities and all of the goodies. There is nothing to stop govt schools from taking this approach (and I understand some do in Sydney).

As to the soft loans, I remember these and that the defence at the time was that it was silly for govt schools to be able to borrow from govt sources for things that were either necessary or not. I recall there was a campaign in the early 80s against a loan for ventilation in a building that had not been sited as intended – it went bad because those pushing it launched a petition against a grant for airconditioning. Wrong on two counts. If things were necessary for a govt school, they would be provided and if not, the school could make its own arrangements.

Couldn’t agree more about the silliness of keeping in the system the students who don’t want to be there, who gain nothing and who simply waste time. It’s probably got a lot to do with keeping them off the Newstart list for a while. (As a development on my previously suggested centralised zoo for recalcitrants, I could suggest a centralised place to teach some life skills to those not academically inclined but not dangerous to others – a last shot at some literacy and numeracy, a bit of civics and rights stuff and some money management).

By the way, I have seen the same toilet roll joke in nongov schools, at ANU and at UC.

The fact is we have a pretty expensive public schooling system in Canberra. It is well equipped (as good as or better than the average Catholic/generic private school)

VicePope, I know of several Govt schools (at least) that aren’t as good as Govt ones. They don’t have wall to wall computers, or have had to fight for air conditioning in portables or have had to wait for years for a gym.

Yes Govt schools get Govt funding but they were never entitled to the Interest Subsidy Scheme (ISS) – where a Non Govt school takes out a loan and then gets both DEST (Federal) and ACTDET to pay them back the interest on that loan.

Several Non Govt schools had more than two. They are still paying off the loans even though the scheme closed a few years ago.

Now that money is used to build structures i.e. computer labs, gyms, swimming pools and the like.

I don’t think there is one Govt school that has a swimming pool and until this year Melrose High didn’t have a gym and it is over 20yrs old.

Having worked in both systems, and in a Non Govt school that is seen as the “lesser” school around Canberra, the Non Govt schools aren’t doing too badly for themselves.

Govt schools have had to fundraise for soft fall or even shading, which is unacceptable as these are safety necessities (OH&S).

What annoys the shit out of me is the students who get E’s and D’s in Yr 10 (or Yr 12), and severely truanting, who are still given their certificates. It’s a slap in the face to the kids who actually did the work and did well.

Years ago in the Girls toilets at Dickson College there was a paper holder. Above it was a sign that read “Get your Yr 12 Certificates here” – for that very reason. Even the student body didn’t believe they were worth the paper they were printed on because of the need to give everyone a certificate even when they didn’t deserve it.

The anti-socials are a problem everywhere – and no, it’s not a routine private school thing to ditch them into the government system. Most of the idiots in the public system were always going to be idiots because some things are inherited and a lot of them have a solid continuous government school history. Most nongovernment schools also have a share of idiots but (as I was lambasted for saying in a different context) there is a bigger parental investment and demand for it to be controlled.

The fact is we have a pretty expensive public schooling system in Canberra. It is well equipped (as good as or better than the average Catholic/generic private school) and has some wonderful teachers – I’ve met enough to know this. It produces articulate students who can cope readily with the next layer of education they undertake.

Yet, although it’s good and free, people are leaving it for a product they have to pay for. Has ACT Education ever thought to ask those who leave (or who never went into the public system) why they left or didn’t use it? There are some problems in the public system – I am aware of loony cliqueishness and favouritism among the staff in some schools. I am aware that a pretty good proxy measure of involvement (parental attendance for feedback) is patchy overall and in some schools terrible. It tries to deal in the same way with those destined for academic success and those who will be lucky to get a run of Ds and this is bad for everyone – separating the two streams into tertiary and accredited/vocational at year 11 is not the answer. These problems shouldn’t be fatal, but they have to be acknowledged.

Is there – he whispered, having taken a good big breath – an argument for contracting the function out to one of the states or to one of the private systems and seeing if they can do better? Better still, should the Commonwealth (which seems inexplicably keen to do things with schools)
resume control and use the ACT as a best practice model administered from the Commonwealth Department?

emd, it’s called anti-social students.

The only good thing about Howard’s new speech was the power to expel students such as these.

They are the reason parents put their children into the private system. That way, if there are any little turds, they will be booted out asap.

I think morgan’s hit the nail on the head. There is something wrong with our public schools if 40% of primary school parents, and 50% of high school parents, are willing to pay thousands of dollars extra to send their kids to private schools.

DT kiss my a%$e. I asked JB if he had heard anything on as well.

You obviously have nothing to say on the topic and believe me it shows.

Private school attendance has been increasing in Canberra for a long time, long before the recent school closures.

Its higher in the ACT than in other states, but thats probably got more to do with average incomes being significantly better here, and more people can afford to send their kids to private school.