BP Phillip

Have a read of this about E5 & E10; http://www.fcai.com.au/environment/can-my-vehicle-operate-on-ethanol-blend-petrol-

leneuromancer said :

so why all the E10 hate? …y’all ask for [solid] evidence as to why those think it so great …how about some [equally solid] evidence that it is so bad?

…for instance, “E10 gummed up my injectors” – please do explain how this happened!

Way I see it is if you are reading the-riotact.com, you are probably not a mechanical, petroleum, or, for that, any other type of engineer/scientist/etc with any basis for comment …other than what your ‘mate or the intertubes had to say on the matter

..heaven forbid we get E85!

I take fairly comprehensive mileage data for my car. When E10 first came out I trialled it for about 3 months and found that I was getting about 6% less mileage than I was with regular unleaded. Considering E10 isn’t more than 6% cheaper than regular unleaded it was costing me more to run my car on E10 than regular unleaded.

Also, I agree with LSWCHP – I think the social costs of ethanol are worse than the environmental benefits. The massive spike in global food prices a few years back was linked to the shift towards ethanol fuel. Essentially we were letting people in the 3rd world starve so we could feel smug about being ‘environmentally friendly’ when driving.

Sandman said :

As for the material safety data sheets from the fuel companies, well I guess a fuel company has never had any complaints of them not telling the whole truth or anything like that. I mean, if it’s on their website then it has to be completely factual.

Is that how you are going to debunk my argument? LOL. At least the MSDS’s support my argument. Your ‘facts’ are supported by ???

leneuromancer said :

so why all the E10 hate?

In the days when I had an EA Falcon (~2006 to ~10) I had to replace the head gasket. I think the problem was a hairline crack in the head.

E10 burns hotter (ithink) and made a bad situation worse – it turned something which could otherwise be ignored into $3,000 of new motor.

I haven’t put E10 in my car since.

leneuromancer said :

Way I see it is if you are reading the-riotact.com, you are probably not a mechanical, petroleum, or, for that, any other type of engineer/scientist/etc with any basis for comment …other than what your ‘mate or the intertubes had to say on the matter

I’m an engineer. MIEAust, ITEE college. So I’m not specifically a chemical or mechanical guy, but I’m not a complete buffoon either. Or so I keep telling myself. 🙂

Anyway, I’m not a big fan of ethanol in fuel, but that’s for environmental, not vehicle performance reasons. Using land and scarce water to grow crops which can be turned into fuel just seems like an inefficient use of resources to me.

Sandman said :

As for the material safety data sheets from the fuel companies, well I guess a fuel company has never had any complaints of them not telling the whole truth or anything like that. I mean, if it’s on their website then it has to be completely factual.

If its in a MSDS, then yes it is factual (or at least should be – and you wouldn’t need to be a petrochemical engineer to disprove the ingredients). Big Petrol is greedy, not moronic.

when they redid the Kambah Woolworths one they took forever and then only put in 1 e10 pump. Rather irritating so now I use the service station on O’Halloran instead.

It’s not E10 hate, it’s just that older cars aren’t designed for it, specifically the injectors. Most motorcycles still aren’t designed for it and the manuals specifically say to avoid running fuel containing ethanol in them. My car is a Japanese Import (no, not a turbo rice rocket, just a well spec’ed Tarago) and the Japanese fuels run at a higher octane rating and quality than we do. Cars that are designated for the Australian Market are tuned accordingly to account for the crappy fuel, or given instructions to only use the Premium unleaded fuel.

As for the material safety data sheets from the fuel companies, well I guess a fuel company has never had any complaints of them not telling the whole truth or anything like that. I mean, if it’s on their website then it has to be completely factual.

The owners are Greek and are big wigs at the Hellenic.

“Nuff said.

so why all the E10 hate? …y’all ask for [solid] evidence as to why those think it so great …how about some [equally solid] evidence that it is so bad?

…for instance, “E10 gummed up my injectors” – please do explain how this happened!

Way I see it is if you are reading the-riotact.com, you are probably not a mechanical, petroleum, or, for that, any other type of engineer/scientist/etc with any basis for comment …other than what your ‘mate or the intertubes had to say on the matter

..heaven forbid we get E85!

Funky1 said :

Antagonist said :

“What would you like to see there besides a car yard?”

Marty’s Food Van.

Someone’s showing their age!
But wasn’t Ralph’s there before, not Marty’s?

I’m pretty sure the van had Ralphs plastered all over it, but the proprieter in my days stumbling around drunk at the Gratto was a one-eyed Holden fan named Marty. His chips and gravy were amazing!

dks00k said :

According to their respective websites, Caltex 95 and 98 contain zero ethanol. Same for BP 98.

The statement was that Regular Unleaded contained 6% ethanol. 95 & 98 RON fuel is not Regular Unleaded……

OK. You heard these facts “from a guy” … how about we check the Caltex website? From the Material Safety Data Sheets published by Caltex:

Unleaded fuel: Petroleum hydrocarbons: 90-100%, Benzene: 0-1%
E10 Unleaded: Petroleum hydrocarbons: 90-100%, Benzene: 0-1%, Ethanol: 0-10%.

I call BS on the hearsay evidence that there is 6% ethanol in regular unleaded fuel.

According to their respective websites, Caltex 95 and 98 contain zero ethanol. Same for BP 98.

The statement was that Regular Unleaded contained 6% ethanol. 95 & 98 RON fuel is not Regular Unleaded……

pptvb said :

thehutch said :

pptvb said :

SnapperJack said :

Hopefully when it reopens they’ll sell regular unleaded and not just that ethanol crap like they have been doing up till now. I refuse to put that garbage in my car.

There isn’t a huge difference between the E10 and regular unleaded that has 6% ethanol anyway!

Want to provide some evidence to back your statement? I call wrong!

I don’t have HARD evidence, just what a mate told me.
He is an area manager for a petroleum company & apparently it is NSW standard to have a minimum 6% ethanol in unleaded.
Since all our fuel comes from NSW refineries, or through NSW…………………

I’ll back that up. I’ve heard the same from a friend (a highly respected and well known big cheese in the MTA , servo owner, mechanic, does a lot with car companies and organisations, rallying etc). I’ve seen the proof in my gummed up injectors as well. Switched to premium fuel and no issues since.

housebound said :

Antagonist said :

pptvb said :

thehutch said :

pptvb said :

SnapperJack said :

Hopefully when it reopens they’ll sell regular unleaded and not just that ethanol crap like they have been doing up till now. I refuse to put that garbage in my car.

There isn’t a huge difference between the E10 and regular unleaded that has 6% ethanol anyway!

Want to provide some evidence to back your statement? I call wrong!

I don’t have HARD evidence, just what a mate told me.
He is an area manager for a petroleum company & apparently it is NSW standard to have a minimum 6% ethanol in unleaded.
Since all our fuel comes from NSW refineries, or through NSW…………………

In the nicest possible way, your mate is full of it.

Ummm, it’s fairly common knowledge that Shell started it. Not sure what the other companies do though.

According to their respective websites, Caltex 95 and 98 contain zero ethanol. Same for BP 98.

Antagonist said :

“What would you like to see there besides a car yard?”

Marty’s Food Van.

+1million!

I still pine for those chips and gravy late at night.

pptvb said :

I don’t have HARD evidence, just what a mate told me.
He is an area manager for a petroleum company & apparently it is NSW standard to have a minimum 6% ethanol in unleaded.
Since all our fuel comes from NSW refineries, or through NSW…………………

Without wanting to interpret what your mate is saying, is it possible he’s referring to the NSW State Government policy requiring 6% of all unleaded petrol sales to be ethanol?

Note that this is ALL unleaded sales, so it really just means that for every 1 litre of regular non ethanol (or premium) unleaded to one customer, you probably need to sell around 2 litres of 10% unleaded (E10) petrol to another customer to achieve this.

Presumably this could be done fairly easy by modifying prices of E10 and regular or premium unleaded.

Source: http://www.biofuels.nsw.gov.au/

Antagonist said :

pptvb said :

thehutch said :

pptvb said :

SnapperJack said :

Hopefully when it reopens they’ll sell regular unleaded and not just that ethanol crap like they have been doing up till now. I refuse to put that garbage in my car.

There isn’t a huge difference between the E10 and regular unleaded that has 6% ethanol anyway!

Want to provide some evidence to back your statement? I call wrong!

I don’t have HARD evidence, just what a mate told me.
He is an area manager for a petroleum company & apparently it is NSW standard to have a minimum 6% ethanol in unleaded.
Since all our fuel comes from NSW refineries, or through NSW…………………

In the nicest possible way, your mate is full of it.

Ummm, it’s fairly common knowledge that Shell started it. Not sure what the other companies do though.

Funky1 said :

Thanks. That’s great to hear.

Must still be good money in petrol (dispite what the servo owners say whenever they put the price up)

Servo owners are barely a rung down the ladder from used car salesmen. My old man was one, and I’ve worked for four in total; not a single word from the mouth of any of them could be believed.
Did you ever see a poor servo owner (say, one who lives in a crappy little house or has less than four cars registered)? Plenty of $$ there, yet constantly crying poor-mouth. They’re a weird sub-species. Not unlike taxi owners.

Antagonist said :

“What would you like to see there besides a car yard?”

Marty’s Food Van.

Someone’s showing their age!
But wasn’t Ralph’s there before, not Marty’s?

pptvb said :

thehutch said :

pptvb said :

SnapperJack said :

Hopefully when it reopens they’ll sell regular unleaded and not just that ethanol crap like they have been doing up till now. I refuse to put that garbage in my car.

There isn’t a huge difference between the E10 and regular unleaded that has 6% ethanol anyway!

Want to provide some evidence to back your statement? I call wrong!

I don’t have HARD evidence, just what a mate told me.
He is an area manager for a petroleum company & apparently it is NSW standard to have a minimum 6% ethanol in unleaded.
Since all our fuel comes from NSW refineries, or through NSW…………………

In the nicest possible way, your mate is full of it.

“What would you like to see there besides a car yard?”

Marty’s Food Van.

thehutch said :

pptvb said :

SnapperJack said :

Hopefully when it reopens they’ll sell regular unleaded and not just that ethanol crap like they have been doing up till now. I refuse to put that garbage in my car.

There isn’t a huge difference between the E10 and regular unleaded that has 6% ethanol anyway!

Want to provide some evidence to back your statement? I call wrong!

I don’t have HARD evidence, just what a mate told me.
He is an area manager for a petroleum company & apparently it is NSW standard to have a minimum 6% ethanol in unleaded.
Since all our fuel comes from NSW refineries, or through NSW…………………

SnapperJack said :

Hopefully when it reopens they’ll sell regular unleaded and not just that ethanol crap like they have been doing up till now. I refuse to put that garbage in my car.

Hear hear – did no-one else foresee the removal of the 91 pumps for E10?

pptvb said :

There isn’t a huge difference between the E10 and regular unleaded that has 6% ethanol anyway!

Really? Please explain…

pptvb said :

SnapperJack said :

Hopefully when it reopens they’ll sell regular unleaded and not just that ethanol crap like they have been doing up till now. I refuse to put that garbage in my car.

There isn’t a huge difference between the E10 and regular unleaded that has 6% ethanol anyway!

Want to provide some evidence to back your statement? I call wrong!

SnapperJack said :

Hopefully when it reopens they’ll sell regular unleaded and not just that ethanol crap like they have been doing up till now. I refuse to put that garbage in my car.

There isn’t a huge difference between the E10 and regular unleaded that has 6% ethanol anyway!

Hopefully when it reopens they’ll sell regular unleaded and not just that ethanol crap like they have been doing up till now. I refuse to put that garbage in my car.

Thanks. That’s great to hear.

Must still be good money in petrol (dispite what the servo owners say whenever they put the price up)

It’s going to reopen in the new year some time. They’re digging up the tanks and putting in new ones, getting a larger LPG tank and putting it under ground, and perhaps building a new building. Basically a new shiny BP.

There is (or was) a notice on one of the fences stating they were replacing the tanks and enlarging the awnings. I guess they figured since they’d have to tear down the awnings to get to the tanks anyway, they might as well remodel a bit.

Its being refurbished – there were signs up for months about it.