BP Phillip

Funky1 17 August 2012 41

Does anyone know what’s happening with the BP servo in Phillip?

At first I thought it was just going through a re-branding or something minor, but it now looks like it’s being completely demolished.

Surely not making room for another car yard?

What would you like to see there besides a car yard?


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Funky1 Funky1 12:03 pm 20 Aug 12

Stuff the Mully Cup! Is there an award for the best derailment of a thread here on the RiotAct?

What has the arguement for/against ethanol-based fuel got to do with the refurbishment of BP Phillip??

:p

Mr Evil Mr Evil 2:32 pm 19 Aug 12

“What would you like to see there besides a car yard?”

Cluster housing for the disadvantaged yoofs – so Govt. Housing tenants with an extreme sense of self-entitlment (and who have no problems riding on the backs of ACT taxpayers for over 10 years!) don’t have to be ‘disadvantaged’ at all.

LSWCHP LSWCHP 2:05 pm 19 Aug 12

Antagonist said :

Sandman said :

Antagonist said :

Sandman said :

As for the material safety data sheets from the fuel companies, well I guess a fuel company has never had any complaints of them not telling the whole truth or anything like that. I mean, if it’s on their website then it has to be completely factual.

Is that how you are going to debunk my argument? LOL. At least the MSDS’s support my argument. Your ‘facts’ are supported by ???

Section 3- Composition/information of ingredients.

Petroleum hydrocarbons. 90-100%
Benzene 0-1%

Did you fail high school Maths? There’s up to 9% unaccounted for and I’m pretty sure it’s not apple juice. You think they had a crack team of highly paid scientists writing their MSD Sheets? They probably got the work experience kid to do it.

It definitely is not 6% ethanol. You are going to have to do better than that.

I’m all in favour of a good conspiracy theory, but I’m not signing up for this one.

MSDS’s are used for ensuring human safety in the workplace. Any business that promulgated a bogus MSDS, particularly one for a product that is not exactly obscure, would be in the financial hurt locker faster than you could say “Bazillion dollar class action lawsuit”.

Antagonist Antagonist 10:26 am 19 Aug 12

Sandman said :

Antagonist said :

Sandman said :

As for the material safety data sheets from the fuel companies, well I guess a fuel company has never had any complaints of them not telling the whole truth or anything like that. I mean, if it’s on their website then it has to be completely factual.

Is that how you are going to debunk my argument? LOL. At least the MSDS’s support my argument. Your ‘facts’ are supported by ???

Section 3- Composition/information of ingredients.

Petroleum hydrocarbons. 90-100%
Benzene 0-1%

Did you fail high school Maths? There’s up to 9% unaccounted for and I’m pretty sure it’s not apple juice. You think they had a crack team of highly paid scientists writing their MSD Sheets? They probably got the work experience kid to do it.

It definitely is not 6% ethanol. You are going to have to do better than that.

Sandman Sandman 9:03 am 19 Aug 12

Antagonist said :

Sandman said :

As for the material safety data sheets from the fuel companies, well I guess a fuel company has never had any complaints of them not telling the whole truth or anything like that. I mean, if it’s on their website then it has to be completely factual.

Is that how you are going to debunk my argument? LOL. At least the MSDS’s support my argument. Your ‘facts’ are supported by ???

Section 3- Composition/information of ingredients.

Petroleum hydrocarbons. 90-100%
Benzene 0-1%

Did you fail high school Maths? There’s up to 9% unaccounted for and I’m pretty sure it’s not apple juice. You think they had a crack team of highly paid scientists writing their MSD Sheets? They probably got the work experience kid to do it.

KB1971 KB1971 7:47 am 19 Aug 12

m00nee said :

leneuromancer said :

so why all the E10 hate? …y’all ask for [solid] evidence as to why those think it so great …how about some [equally solid] evidence that it is so bad?

…for instance, “E10 gummed up my injectors” – please do explain how this happened!

Way I see it is if you are reading the-riotact.com, you are probably not a mechanical, petroleum, or, for that, any other type of engineer/scientist/etc with any basis for comment …other than what your ‘mate or the intertubes had to say on the matter

..heaven forbid we get E85!

I am happy to give my opinion on E10. I am a qualified mechanic so my issues are mainly (but not all) mechanically based.
1. Ethanol is a solvent. It will and does destroy any rubber like material it contacts, such as rubber or plastic fuel lines, Carburetors, Fuel Injectors.
2. Ethanol will absorb any moisture in the air it contacts. This causes water to form in the fuel. The longer it is left the more moisture that is absorbed. This in turn will accelerate any rusting that can and does occur in steel fuel tanks and fuel lines. it will also lower the efficiency of burn in your fuel system.
3, Ethanol is 50% less efficient than petrol. this means it takes 1.5 litres of Ethanol to produce the same power as 1 litre of Petrol. The government has mandated a fuel that by definition is at least 5% less efficient than what it is intended to replace.
4. 10% Ethanol added to unleaded will raise the octane rating by roughly 4 points. This means that if the fuel companies add 10% Ethanol to unleaded 91 the E10 is 95 octane. If E10 is sold as 91 octane then the fuel companies are adding 10% Ethanol to 87 octane fuel. A less refined and by definition ‘dirtier’ fuel.
5. The rate of Taxation on Ethanol used in fuel is currently 0% yet E10 is not and has never been 10% cheaper than standard unleaded fuel.

Oh, and all VE II Holden Commodores from 2010 on are E85 compatible. E85 is available at Caltex Kambah & Nicholls.

Could not have said it better myself moonee. +2 from motor mechanic #2

KB1971 KB1971 7:44 am 19 Aug 12

PoQ said :

leneuromancer said :

so why all the E10 hate?

In the days when I had an EA Falcon (~2006 to ~10) I had to replace the head gasket. I think the problem was a hairline crack in the head.

E10 burns hotter (ithink) and made a bad situation worse – it turned something which could otherwise be ignored into $3,000 of new motor.

I haven’t put E10 in my car since.

That had nothing to do with ethanol in your fuel but everything to do with the design on your vehicle. The EA Falcon was plagued with head problems from day one. I can remember visiting Martyn Ford in Cooma during my apprenticeship and seeing all the EA warranty claim heads on a shelf. There were about 40 of them, this was in 1990 & they had only been out for about 2 years then.

djk djk 12:01 am 19 Aug 12

I dont have any of them fancy evidences, but when I have used E10 in my car I have also found I get less KMs per tank.

m00nee m00nee 10:21 pm 18 Aug 12

leneuromancer said :

so why all the E10 hate? …y’all ask for [solid] evidence as to why those think it so great …how about some [equally solid] evidence that it is so bad?

…for instance, “E10 gummed up my injectors” – please do explain how this happened!

Way I see it is if you are reading the-riotact.com, you are probably not a mechanical, petroleum, or, for that, any other type of engineer/scientist/etc with any basis for comment …other than what your ‘mate or the intertubes had to say on the matter

..heaven forbid we get E85!

I am happy to give my opinion on E10. I am a qualified mechanic so my issues are mainly (but not all) mechanically based.
1. Ethanol is a solvent. It will and does destroy any rubber like material it contacts, such as rubber or plastic fuel lines, Carburetors, Fuel Injectors.
2. Ethanol will absorb any moisture in the air it contacts. This causes water to form in the fuel. The longer it is left the more moisture that is absorbed. This in turn will accelerate any rusting that can and does occur in steel fuel tanks and fuel lines. it will also lower the efficiency of burn in your fuel system.
3, Ethanol is 50% less efficient than petrol. this means it takes 1.5 litres of Ethanol to produce the same power as 1 litre of Petrol. The government has mandated a fuel that by definition is at least 5% less efficient than what it is intended to replace.
4. 10% Ethanol added to unleaded will raise the octane rating by roughly 4 points. This means that if the fuel companies add 10% Ethanol to unleaded 91 the E10 is 95 octane. If E10 is sold as 91 octane then the fuel companies are adding 10% Ethanol to 87 octane fuel. A less refined and by definition ‘dirtier’ fuel.
5. The rate of Taxation on Ethanol used in fuel is currently 0% yet E10 is not and has never been 10% cheaper than standard unleaded fuel.

Oh, and all VE II Holden Commodores from 2010 on are E85 compatible. E85 is available at Caltex Kambah & Nicholls.

thehutch thehutch 8:26 pm 18 Aug 12

pptvb said :

thehutch said :

pptvb said :

SnapperJack said :

Hopefully when it reopens they’ll sell regular unleaded and not just that ethanol crap like they have been doing up till now. I refuse to put that garbage in my car.

There isn’t a huge difference between the E10 and regular unleaded that has 6% ethanol anyway!

Want to provide some evidence to back your statement? I call wrong!

I don’t have HARD evidence, just what a mate told me.
He is an area manager for a petroleum company & apparently it is NSW standard to have a minimum 6% ethanol in unleaded.
Since all our fuel comes from NSW refineries, or through NSW…………………

The previous NSW labor Government was bringing in legislation that all unleaded petrol was to contain ethanol. The liberal government canned that when they came to power.

Your mate is not a great area manager

farnarkler farnarkler 11:07 am 18 Aug 12
Jethro Jethro 7:51 am 18 Aug 12

leneuromancer said :

so why all the E10 hate? …y’all ask for [solid] evidence as to why those think it so great …how about some [equally solid] evidence that it is so bad?

…for instance, “E10 gummed up my injectors” – please do explain how this happened!

Way I see it is if you are reading the-riotact.com, you are probably not a mechanical, petroleum, or, for that, any other type of engineer/scientist/etc with any basis for comment …other than what your ‘mate or the intertubes had to say on the matter

..heaven forbid we get E85!

I take fairly comprehensive mileage data for my car. When E10 first came out I trialled it for about 3 months and found that I was getting about 6% less mileage than I was with regular unleaded. Considering E10 isn’t more than 6% cheaper than regular unleaded it was costing me more to run my car on E10 than regular unleaded.

Also, I agree with LSWCHP – I think the social costs of ethanol are worse than the environmental benefits. The massive spike in global food prices a few years back was linked to the shift towards ethanol fuel. Essentially we were letting people in the 3rd world starve so we could feel smug about being ‘environmentally friendly’ when driving.

Antagonist Antagonist 11:36 pm 17 Aug 12

Sandman said :

As for the material safety data sheets from the fuel companies, well I guess a fuel company has never had any complaints of them not telling the whole truth or anything like that. I mean, if it’s on their website then it has to be completely factual.

Is that how you are going to debunk my argument? LOL. At least the MSDS’s support my argument. Your ‘facts’ are supported by ???

PoQ PoQ 11:10 pm 17 Aug 12

leneuromancer said :

so why all the E10 hate?

In the days when I had an EA Falcon (~2006 to ~10) I had to replace the head gasket. I think the problem was a hairline crack in the head.

E10 burns hotter (ithink) and made a bad situation worse – it turned something which could otherwise be ignored into $3,000 of new motor.

I haven’t put E10 in my car since.

LSWCHP LSWCHP 10:43 pm 17 Aug 12

leneuromancer said :

Way I see it is if you are reading the-riotact.com, you are probably not a mechanical, petroleum, or, for that, any other type of engineer/scientist/etc with any basis for comment …other than what your ‘mate or the intertubes had to say on the matter

I’m an engineer. MIEAust, ITEE college. So I’m not specifically a chemical or mechanical guy, but I’m not a complete buffoon either. Or so I keep telling myself. 🙂

Anyway, I’m not a big fan of ethanol in fuel, but that’s for environmental, not vehicle performance reasons. Using land and scarce water to grow crops which can be turned into fuel just seems like an inefficient use of resources to me.

ma7trlb ma7trlb 10:36 pm 17 Aug 12

Sandman said :

As for the material safety data sheets from the fuel companies, well I guess a fuel company has never had any complaints of them not telling the whole truth or anything like that. I mean, if it’s on their website then it has to be completely factual.

If its in a MSDS, then yes it is factual (or at least should be – and you wouldn’t need to be a petrochemical engineer to disprove the ingredients). Big Petrol is greedy, not moronic.

pink little birdie pink little birdie 10:16 pm 17 Aug 12

when they redid the Kambah Woolworths one they took forever and then only put in 1 e10 pump. Rather irritating so now I use the service station on O’Halloran instead.

Sandman Sandman 9:53 pm 17 Aug 12

It’s not E10 hate, it’s just that older cars aren’t designed for it, specifically the injectors. Most motorcycles still aren’t designed for it and the manuals specifically say to avoid running fuel containing ethanol in them. My car is a Japanese Import (no, not a turbo rice rocket, just a well spec’ed Tarago) and the Japanese fuels run at a higher octane rating and quality than we do. Cars that are designated for the Australian Market are tuned accordingly to account for the crappy fuel, or given instructions to only use the Premium unleaded fuel.

As for the material safety data sheets from the fuel companies, well I guess a fuel company has never had any complaints of them not telling the whole truth or anything like that. I mean, if it’s on their website then it has to be completely factual.

Pandy Pandy 9:51 pm 17 Aug 12

The owners are Greek and are big wigs at the Hellenic.

“Nuff said.

leneuromancer leneuromancer 8:58 pm 17 Aug 12

so why all the E10 hate? …y’all ask for [solid] evidence as to why those think it so great …how about some [equally solid] evidence that it is so bad?

…for instance, “E10 gummed up my injectors” – please do explain how this happened!

Way I see it is if you are reading the-riotact.com, you are probably not a mechanical, petroleum, or, for that, any other type of engineer/scientist/etc with any basis for comment …other than what your ‘mate or the intertubes had to say on the matter

..heaven forbid we get E85!

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