6 December 2006

Canberra suburbs to share aircraft noise ?

| footyboy
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As reported on the ABC.

Jon Stanhope has backed calls from Canberra International Airport to stop the new housing development at Tralee just across the border.

A complete fiasco in town planning will see this new development directly under the main flight paths.

There is concern that future residents of the new development will complain about the noise and call for flight paths to be altered and directed over areas such as Tuggeranong to share the noise.

[ED – It’s nice to see the airport and the brave leader agreeing to bury their hatchets and unite against evil Queanbeyan]

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Snow stated when he bought the airport that the lack of a curfew was most attractive to him. He wants to make the airport a freight hub. Freight planes are noisy. He’d also love to bring in jumbos from asia in the early hours of the morning, but so far the transport infrastructure isn’t in place to take them where they want to go. Unless he just makes Canberra INTERNATIONAL airport a mini-sydney, and people land here, are processed and then hop onto planes to wherever they’re headed in Oz.

Wait until someone does try and have a curfew enacted , you’ll see Terry Snow and his Federal goverment coherts, dig their heels in.

Unlike any other airport in Australia Canberra airport relies on aircraft descending and taking off over another State. I doubt the ACT Gov’t has the authority to impose caveats on landsales interstate as much as they may like to.

Why weren’t aircraft flight paths taken into consideration intra ACT when the airport was built rather than imposing the noise elsewhere ?

Something to do with annoying the NIMBYs that live in those areas, perhaps?

Can’t wait to see (and hear) the Mega Planes.

Taking off must be louder. We definitely get aircraft noise in Hackett. If we are apparently in their noise abatement zone, then I wouldn’t want to live any closer.

Also – the airport is preparing for the future – who knows how loud ‘international’ mega planes of the future will be.

Looking at their noise abatement zone map, why does the zone go so far to the west, and yet only just covers the suburbs to the east (hackett, ainslie, watson etc)?

I work in Hume, directly across the railway line from Tralee. The amount of fixed wing aircraft noise heard is NIL. I guess a combination of landing into the prevailing wind, carrying the sound further east, and the general quietness of the aircraft fleet.

The only time aircraft noise is heard is when the wind is from the east and the aircraft take off above Hume. This occurs about one day a fortnight, and the sound is only just noticeable.

Guess this means I think the Airport do protesteth too much. I suspect the current residents of Jerra are already the worst effected by aircraft noise. Could still be worth adding caveats to land sale documents that thou shall not whinge.

Canberra will never really have any issues except for around QYBN area and perhaps due north of the airport. As the flight paths are dictated by Mt Ainslie etc etc. So its only an issue if like the post says they start to build in silly areas.

I’m not expecting daily airport noise to reach the George Bush level. But there is a lot different noise ranges between the livable level we have now, and the George Bush night of noise. I think a curfew would ensure that the noise never gets too ridiculous over any particular area.

Seepi, I think the George Bush visit was a special case that we’re unlikely to see again.

The noise was from the CAP F/A-18s which were cruising around at 5000ft for nearly 20 hours while he was in town, and military jet engines are generally a lot noisier than commercial jet engines.

‘The other capital city airports have curfews – someone must be able to impose them.’

Perth international and domestic airports don’t have curfews.

snahon: I was trying to shorten up an already lengthy post, but there you go…My point was that on the whole, the load placed on ACT infrastructure by interstate commuters far outweighs loads in reverse. I and I suspect the majority of Canberrans don’t get to go down the coast every weekend – let alone 5 days a week every week. More like once a year…
This sort of imbalance, coupled with the additional costs of maintaining the nation’s capital, are what contributes to the current tax base being unsustainable, leading to requirements for larger shares of the GST carve-up.

I don’t think it has anything to do with that.
I think it has no curfew cos noone has ever asked for one. And so far aircraft noise has not been a major problem for anyone. It is a minor problem for Hackett, but if it stayed at this level forever I wouldn’t care. But if there were ten times as many planes it would become really intrusive. The George Bush visit whihc kept us up all night was what really made me start thinking about this. I think we should establish a curfew before there is a problem, instead of waiting til this freight airport is doing 24 hour flights, and then trying to do something about it.

Can anyone confirm whether the reason Canberra doesn’t have a curfew has anything to do with the fact that 34SQN (VIP) is based there, and that they can be called out at very short notice 24 hours/day?

“…without paying for roads and stuff for freeloaders commuting over the border every day. “

curse those freeloaders, its not like they shop in canberra ever is it ? and what of the free loaders who use NSW roads to go to their holidays homes down the bay every weekend during the warmer weather? – grow a brain.

It’s probably worth pointing out that there are plenty of parts of Jerrabomberra that don’t suffer from aircraft noise. I often have windows open at night and don’t even hear them (my house is well east of the flight path). I find it interesting that we get no noise, and yet houses only about 1km to the west get plenty.

Putting new houses at Tralee is fairly stipud, because that it RIGHT UNDER where the planes typically fly.

Just number lock the complaints hotline to 62 series numbers.

Dumb people don’t deserve their money in the first place, therefore I encourage this development.

If people are that worried about noise sharing, worry about a 24/7 airport into heavy freight instead.

Trucks everywhere, diesel fumes, AV gas pollution over the entire region, equivalents of C17s flying around…

An airport with curfews is a quiet airport. Canberra airport has no curfews. You’ll need to make your Federal MP aware.

The key is that the flightpath has to be protected from development, whether it is in ACT or not.
What will happen if Tralee is approved is clear:
1/ new people will move into expensive houses, as they have in Jerrabombera
2/ Noise attenuation requirements will not work because people want to actually open their windows at times…
2/ being of higher socio-economic means, they will be astute lobbyists/complainers (I work with people from there who complain about the noise and Tralee will be even noisier)
3/ eventually the complainers will win some concessions, and the flightpath will be shared out over Tuggers, North Canberra, Gungahlin, and with some luck the middle of bloody Queanbeyan. But by then the developers’ mate who is mayor over there will be long gone, living it large off the fruits of his efforts…
IMHO the ACT should be expanded out to include all the way to Bungendore and Murrumbateman (if not Yass) so we can exert some control over this sort of absurb planning, and we can have a sustainable population/tax base without paying for roads and stuff for freeloaders commuting over the border every day.

It would be nice if people did not complain on things they should have been aware of however current versus future noise is an issue. More night time flights will create a bigger problem.
Currently aircraft noise is under Commonwealth control and not the territory one so it does not matter which side of the border has a problem. The ACT government has no control over the airport or flight paths. It can only suggest.

Let them approve it. Let them build it. Let others buy it and then complain.

This is none of our business in the ACT.

The other capital city airports have curfews – someone must be able to impose them.

The airport is in the ACT, not NSW

shouldn’t we take a share of the noise ??

seepi: does the ACT Government actually have any power to impose a curfew on the Canberra airport?

ps – the nsw govt had to buy back houses in marrickville which were unlivable due to aircraft noise.
we don’t want to let canberra airport get that bad.

There is some aircraft noise in north canberra, especially small planes and helicopters.

Let them build it, but:

A. Make the NSW Govt and Queanbeyan Council sign a document stating they will not make any complaints, or take any form of action against the airport owners and/or the ACT Govt about aircraft noise affecting Tralee at any time during the future.

B. Make all prospective buyers of property within the development (now and at any time in the future) sign a document stating that they understand the consequences of living under a flightpath and that they will never take action against the airport and/or ACT Govt for any noise complaints.

That should f*ck them!

Growling Ferret2:54 pm 06 Dec 06

The morons in Jerrabombera moved in under a flightpath and next to a Speedway, and got the speedway shut down because it was too noisy…

I have no sympathy for anyone stupid enough to buy land anywhere under a flightpath.

The few flights a day we get in Canberra are a tiny % of those the residents near Mascot get daily…

If you think about it, there really is very little impact (on the ACT side) from the flightpath. Planes come in to the east of Chisholm, and follow the NSW/ACT border north all the way to the airport. Keep development away from the border, and nothing is under the flightpath.

only an idiot would:
a – propose building under a flightpath
b – support building under a flightpath
c – provide building approval
d – buy a house under a flightpath

typical qbn moronic actions

Good URL here from the Airservices Australia showing the distance between the airport and the developments (about 10km):


Also Airservices Australia appear to support the development as it meets the Australian Standard AS2021-2000:


Maybe Stanhope is trying to suck up to the airport after the recent falling out over Epicentre.

‘Mr Stanhope said good planning had resulted in a situation where the Canberra Airport could expand its business and prosper, without subjecting the vast majority of Canberra householders to significant aircraft noise.

…Canberrans will not be forced to compensate for poor planning decisions by NSW.’

I love internally inconsistent documents. Good planing should be a stand alone plan and not rely on NSW (as a jusrisdiction over which the ACT has no control) to support the ACT’s planning decisions.

As with the rhetoric over the Hume jail site, I’d suggest we Canberrans listen to our own advice to NSW and butt out of things which we can’t control – but that we simply don’t like.

I hope Jon S is also considering a curfew for the airport. As they get busier additional suburbs will probably have to share the noise load anyway I would think.

It would be poor planning to build directly under a flightpath.

QBN council is just doing it to spite the ACT for building the jail

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