Decapitated joey

crappicker said :

Thanks Watson for your advice, but it is misplaced. It is the evidence for illegal, cruel, killing that is emerging, from my own serendipitous observation and from Animal Liberation’s. Such practices should not happen by any means. May be you can live with it, but I do not want it to happen to kangaroos… and certainly not to our kangaroos!

How ’bout you lay down the crack pipe for a minute and provide this so-called “evidence” for illegal, cruel killing? The not-quite-joey picture that you’ve tried to use to tug at heart strings is evidence for nothing more than an animal carcass that proves nothing about how it ended up in this condition. Your claims of blood puddles also sound far fetched – unless you happen to be a forensic scientist and have proved beyond any doubt that the puddles were blood. I’m surprised that in your “serendipitous observation” you were able to locate such substantial puddles of blood before they were absorbed into the ground yet, but didn’t see anything or anyone else worth providing as evidence.

On second thoughts, pick the crack pipe up again and bugger off.

Thanks Watson for your advice, but it is misplaced. It is the evidence for illegal, cruel, killing that is emerging, from my own serendipitous observation and from Animal Liberation’s. Such practices should not happen by any means. May be you can live with it, but I do not want it to happen to kangaroos… and certainly not to our kangaroos!

crappicker said :

Now that this post is running to an end it is time for some reflections.

The many car tracks and blood puddles evidence a kangaroo slaughter in the northeastern part of the Wanniassa Hills Reserve.

The decapitated young kangaroo is clearly linked to this slaughter.

The government may say that their mercenaries can shoot straight but TAMS does not. Their TAMSMediaRoom comment and Daniel Iglesias’ performance in yesterday’s Canberra Times are just spin doctoring.

I have failed in calling crap what is crap, in entering a discussion on plausible denial. As a crappicker I still have to learn the ropes, or should I say the cables?

If I want to change archaic and barbaric customs I have to go for direct action. This week I have become a member of Voiceless and of the Wildlife Protection Association of Australia, will do so for the Australian Society for Kangaroos, and have offered my assistance to Animal Liberation for surveillance action. My old bones still will do in jumping a fence.

I will look further into those drones.

Not anywhere near the end…

You do realise that the same TAMS department you are going to fight now you have joined the guerilla troops, is the department that is working on a solution involving contraception for roos? Did you not watch the Kangaroo Mob doco?

The more damage those environmental extremists cause, the less funding for programs to research and implement alternative solutions to culling.

You clearly want to feel like an action hero. But don’t kid yourself into thinking that you are actually helping these roos. If you achieve anything at all, it will be most likely something that hinders any viable longer term solution.

The roos are better off shot that run over. I have seen more roos wounded & left by the road to die a slow death than quickly by someone with a rifle.

I have had to dispatch roos on a few occasions, usually with the back of my axe that used to live in my 4WD, when someone has hit them & just driven off. THAT is more of a travesty than someone shooting them stone cold dead.

My proffesional oppinion is the ACT government should simply subsidise Canberra residents purchasing bullbars, ensuring the kangaroos culled are the ones infringing onto roadways and the ones that are unable to hop more than 10km from the nature parks can stay up there.
I for one think about my rates dropping courtesy of a reduced need for culling everytime I collect a kangaroo with my shiny steel ARB barwork on my ute.

CapitalK said :

HenryBG said :

CapitalK said :

HenryBG said :

JazzyJess said :

How awful. Imagine if a little child out walking with their parents came across that. There has got to be a better solution to culling.

I think a child’s response would be informed by whatever hysteria its parent chose to display.
*Your* response to the sight of a dead animal has the potential to be far more stressful to your child than the sight itself. You should tailor your behaviour accordingly.

Death is a very normal part of nature. It’s those who spend virtually no time in nature who get so upset about the sight of a dead animal.

We did pass a similar scene walking from Gungahlin to Evatt recently with 5yo and 2yo, it was quite disturbing but we just pushed the pram quickly and told the 5yo to keep looking ahead. All good, still not nice to see.

We did however go onto the TAMS webiste and report it and a ranger phoned my husband the next day to collect it

Personally, my approach to dead animals is to teach the children to dig a hole and bury it. You don’t need to encourage foxes or flies by leaving it there.

With what would we dig the hole and bury it? our hands? the pram? It was nearing dark and freezing cold..please keep your helpful comments to yourself.

So let me get this straight. You were walking from Gungahlin to Evatt, a walk of approx. 7km and at best probably 1 and a 1/2 hours walk, with a 5 and 2 year old, near dark in the freezing cold and your biggest concern was whether your children happened to glance upon an animal carcass?

WildTurkey,
Yes, that is where I was coming from and yes, it was a joke based on the irony of the other story. Sorry about your friend, that is most unfortunate.

Henry,
*sigh* You are of course right about everything you say.

MissChief said :

Henry, I could laugh at your comments if they weren’t so sad. Yes, there might be millions of kangaroos in Australia but our local kangaroos are much less in number. Until recently, not much was known about Kangaroo populations and habits but they now know that kangaroo mobs don’t venture more than about 10 klms from their local area. That makes each mob unique and special in their linage for particular regions. If they kill all the kangaroos in places like Wanniassa Hills, we cannot expect another mob just to turn up.

Where is the evidence that kangaroo mobs don’t venture more than 10km from the local area. If it is from the GPS tracking study done here in the A.C.T, then of course that makes sense. The roos cannot escape their little oasis because of the major arterial roads in the way…yes I looked it up and you can see them wandering around the Bruce Stadium area with nowhere to go. It’s like saying goldfish have a habitat of 20cm, after putting a tracker on one in a glass bowl. Most scientific.
As for killing all the kangaroos on Wanniassa hills, if you don’t at least reduce their numbers pretty soon you’ll have skinny dead joeys with skin hanging off their ribs because there isn’t enough food for them all. How humane is that? If they all die off, well, there’s plenty more where they came from – in N.S.W.

MissChief said :

Henry, I could laugh at your comments if they weren’t so sad.

Like I said: over-emotional.

MissChief said :

Yes, there might be millions of kangaroos in Australia but our local kangaroos are much less in number.

No ship, sherlock!

MissChief said :

Until recently, not much was known about Kangaroo populations and habits

That’s right – kangaroos were discovered by Professor Fanny Brathwaite in 1957, if I recall correctly.

MissChief said :

but they now know that kangaroo mobs don’t venture more than about 10 klms from their local area. That makes each mob unique and special in their linage for particular regions. If they kill all the kangaroos in places like Wanniassa Hills, we cannot expect another mob just to turn up.

What is this garbage?
They’re kangaroos, not Rembrandt or Einstein. They contribute nothing to society so who cares about any supposedly unique DNA (if that’s what you’re trying to get across?

wildturkeycanoe said :

MissChief said :

Henry, I could laugh at your comments if they weren’t so sad. Yes, there might be millions of kangaroos in Australia but our local kangaroos are much less in number. Until recently, not much was known about Kangaroo populations and habits but they now know that kangaroo mobs don’t venture more than about 10 klms from their local area. That makes each mob unique and special in their linage for particular regions. If they kill all the kangaroos in places like Wanniassa Hills, we cannot expect another mob just to turn up.

Wildturkey, Thanks for sending me out to Tidbinbilla on the weekend to see the kangaroos. Was that you who shot at me?

Wasn’t me, why would I go out there to see roos when they are abundant on the roads in the suburbs? Also, don’t have guns, wouldn’t shoot a roo in a wildlife reserve if I did and are you just joking or being serious?
I still stand by the value of my car being more than that of a critter who wants to jump out in front of it. Doesn’t matter about the speed you drive, I’ve had one jump into the front fender whilst driving at 30km/h – dumb animal? I also have had three mates hit by roos whilst riding their motorcycles. Two faired okay [one bike written off] but the third has serious health issues for the rest of his life. Nasty business.

EDIT – Sorry, just read the other thing about Tidbinbilla, now I see where your coming from.

MissChief said :

Henry, I could laugh at your comments if they weren’t so sad. Yes, there might be millions of kangaroos in Australia but our local kangaroos are much less in number. Until recently, not much was known about Kangaroo populations and habits but they now know that kangaroo mobs don’t venture more than about 10 klms from their local area. That makes each mob unique and special in their linage for particular regions. If they kill all the kangaroos in places like Wanniassa Hills, we cannot expect another mob just to turn up.

Wildturkey, Thanks for sending me out to Tidbinbilla on the weekend to see the kangaroos. Was that you who shot at me?

Wasn’t me, why would I go out there to see roos when they are abundant on the roads in the suburbs? Also, don’t have guns, wouldn’t shoot a roo in a wildlife reserve if I did and are you just joking or being serious?
I still stand by the value of my car being more than that of a critter who wants to jump out in front of it. Doesn’t matter about the speed you drive, I’ve had one jump into the front fender whilst driving at 30km/h – dumb animal? I also have had three mates hit by roos whilst riding their motorcycles. Two faired okay [one bike written off] but the third has serious health issues for the rest of his life. Nasty business.

Watson said :

poetix said :

If I found this, whether alone or with my family, I’d probably throw up. As to modifying behaviour so that children aren’t upset, I think it’s fair enough to show emotion in front of children over something like this. I don’t agree with lying to children in general, and trying to pretend you’re not disgusted by a mutilated animal would be a kind of lying. Of course, you’d try not to let a child see this if it could be avoided.

Really? Why? I always went to inspect dead animals we saw on our walks with my daughter, even when she was a toddler. Kids tend to show a natural curiosity about those things. And unless maybe you’re a vegetarian (arguably), I don’t see how the state of the dead body matters at all. We’re all made of flesh and blood and I see no difference between seeing the flesh on that joey and the steak in my frying pan.

And I grew up in the city, but I can’t see why you would pussyfoot around death and the gruesome side of nature at all with kids.

bigfeet said :

Really? Do you throw up when you pass the meat section at Woolworths?

Because that is all this is. Some meat in it’s natural state.

I agree my reactions to this sort of sight are extreme, but my point was more that I don’t think it’s good to lie to children, and that parents shouldn’t try and pretend that they feel terrific when something does upset them. This joey’s body is something I would rather avoid; I know even the photo makes me uneasy. I don’t know if its death was ‘natural’ or not. But lots of natural things are extremely ugly. Yes, it’s interesting, and I start imagining the smell and how it died and get upset for no good reason.

I am not sick on the occasions I go near the meat section at the supermarket, although I prefer to avoid it. You have to admit this kangaroo without a head is pretty graphic, with the snakes of flesh prodruding from its neck and the sudden transition from fur to bone. People have a variety of responses to this sort of thing. I am definitely at the ‘over-sensitive’ end of the spectrum, although I see certain other comments (not the two quoted) as a bit hard-hearted.

Henry BG, your comment about not giving a rat’s arse for a kangaroo has made my day.

Henry, I could laugh at your comments if they weren’t so sad. Yes, there might be millions of kangaroos in Australia but our local kangaroos are much less in number. Until recently, not much was known about Kangaroo populations and habits but they now know that kangaroo mobs don’t venture more than about 10 klms from their local area. That makes each mob unique and special in their linage for particular regions. If they kill all the kangaroos in places like Wanniassa Hills, we cannot expect another mob just to turn up.

Wildturkey, Thanks for sending me out to Tidbinbilla on the weekend to see the kangaroos. Was that you who shot at me?

EvanJames said :

MissChief said :

I can’t help but find the attitude of some people here totally abhorrent. Do you ever stop to listen to yourselves? All I hear is, “A living thing dinted my metal… whaa whaa whaa”. Surely you can’t be that inhumane? You must be trolling!

some pretty unpleasant attitudes being displayed, for sure. It’s not edifying reading.

Not wanting to give Kangaroos the Vote is “unpleasant”? You’re being over-emotional. It’s just an animal.

MissChief said :

I can’t help but find the attitude of some people here totally abhorrent. Do you ever stop to listen to yourselves? All I hear is, “A living thing dinted my metal… whaa whaa whaa”. Surely you can’t be that inhumane? You must be trolling!

some pretty unpleasant attitudes being displayed, for sure. It’s not edifying reading.

CapitalK said :

With what would we dig the hole and bury it? our hands? the pram? It was nearing dark and freezing cold..please keep your helpful comments to yourself.

My cup overfloweth with helpful comments.

So you left it there for the flies and the foxes. Your children just missed out on an educational experience. And your labelling it a “disturbing sight” probably hasn’t contributed to their sanity much either.

MissChief said :

I can’t help but find the attitude of some people here totally abhorrent. Do you ever stop to listen to yourselves? All I hear is, “A living thing dinted my metal… whaa whaa whaa”. Surely you can’t be that inhumane? You must be trolling!

I’m sorry, but my car is far more impotrant to me than any dumb animal, EXCEPT if it was a Thylacine. I would be incredibly upset if I hit an animal on the highway and discovered it was a Thylacine. A kangaroo on the other hand I don’t give a rat’s arse about: there are millions of them and one less in the world isn’t any kind of loss to anybody.

People who get all choked up about the death of a dumb animal are not sane.

MissChief said :

I can’t help but find the attitude of some people here totally abhorrent. Do you ever stop to listen to yourselves? All I hear is, “A living thing dinted my metal… whaa whaa whaa”. Surely you can’t be that inhumane? You must be trolling!

Yeah as opposed to the people saying that a kangaroo’s life is as important as a human being’s.

They’re pictures of sanity.

I can’t help but find the attitude of some people here totally abhorrent. Do you ever stop to listen to yourselves? All I hear is, “A living thing dinted my metal… whaa whaa whaa”. Surely you can’t be that inhumane? You must be trolling!

HenryBG said :

CapitalK said :

HenryBG said :

JazzyJess said :

How awful. Imagine if a little child out walking with their parents came across that. There has got to be a better solution to culling.

I think a child’s response would be informed by whatever hysteria its parent chose to display.
*Your* response to the sight of a dead animal has the potential to be far more stressful to your child than the sight itself. You should tailor your behaviour accordingly.

Death is a very normal part of nature. It’s those who spend virtually no time in nature who get so upset about the sight of a dead animal.

We did pass a similar scene walking from Gungahlin to Evatt recently with 5yo and 2yo, it was quite disturbing but we just pushed the pram quickly and told the 5yo to keep looking ahead. All good, still not nice to see.

We did however go onto the TAMS webiste and report it and a ranger phoned my husband the next day to collect it

Personally, my approach to dead animals is to teach the children to dig a hole and bury it. You don’t need to encourage foxes or flies by leaving it there.

With what would we dig the hole and bury it? our hands? the pram? It was nearing dark and freezing cold..please keep your helpful comments to yourself.

poetix said :

If I found this, whether alone or with my family, I’d probably throw up. As to modifying behaviour so that children aren’t upset, I think it’s fair enough to show emotion in front of children over something like this. I don’t agree with lying to children in general, and trying to pretend you’re not disgusted by a mutilated animal would be a kind of lying. Of course, you’d try not to let a child see this if it could be avoided.

Really? Do you throw up when you pass the meat section at Woolworths?

Because that is all this is. Some meat in it’s natural state.

poetix said :

If I found this, whether alone or with my family, I’d probably throw up. As to modifying behaviour so that children aren’t upset, I think it’s fair enough to show emotion in front of children over something like this. I don’t agree with lying to children in general, and trying to pretend you’re not disgusted by a mutilated animal would be a kind of lying. Of course, you’d try not to let a child see this if it could be avoided.

Really? Why? I always went to inspect dead animals we saw on our walks with my daughter, even when she was a toddler. Kids tend to show a natural curiosity about those things. And unless maybe you’re a vegetarian (arguably), I don’t see how the state of the dead body matters at all. We’re all made of flesh and blood and I see no difference between seeing the flesh on that joey and the steak in my frying pan.

And I grew up in the city, but I can’t see why you would pussyfoot around death and the gruesome side of nature at all with kids.

crappicker said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

MissChief said :

Dear ACT Government,

Where have all the kangaroos gone? Please leave some for our enjoyment and to keep our grasslands looking like they once did, with roaming kangaroos NOT roaming gun lobby members.

Concerned Citizen

If you want to see kangaroos in the wild, natural habitat and the like, go to a nature reserve such as Tidbinbilla. We have national parks to protect these animals because when man and his society meet with nature, it is inevitable that nature will lose. Gun lobbyists don’t go to the protected parks to shoot roos, they only shoot where they are legally allowed to.
If you persist with this kind of pathetic dribble, how about standing up for the native birds whose habitats are being taken over by the indian mynah, or the countless animals being mauled by pet and feral cats, dogs and foxes. Without regular hunting and trapping, you’d be seeing grasslands of predators, not giant, furry hood ornaments.
PS – Kangaroos have caused me personally well over $5000 in damage to at least 4 vehicles, I’ve witnessed huge damage to many of my friend’s cars as well. Cull them off I say.

Any sensible person would slow down near kangaroos. You must drive faster than your speed of learning. Kangaroos are protected! Time may come that collision with a kangaroo will carry a mandatory fine with damage not covered by insurance. Why should others have to cover for your kind of attitudes!

Are you barking mad?

wildturkeycanoe said :

PS – Kangaroos have caused me personally well over $5000 in damage to at least 4 vehicles, I’ve witnessed huge damage to many of my friend’s cars as well. Cull them off I say.

Hmm. I’ve been regular driving through Kangaroo mobs at night on dirt roads for years and have never hit one, touchwood. It’s comforting to know there are sh*t-magnets like you out there keeping the rest of us safe. Thank-you.

crappicker said :

Any sensible person would slow down near kangaroos. You must drive faster than your speed of learning. Kangaroos are protected! Time may come that collision with a kangaroo will carry a mandatory fine with damage not covered by insurance. Why should others have to cover for your kind of attitudes!

You do not do your cause any good when you use emotion to argue against logic. You come off as a raving loonatic.

Does anyone know if Town Centre Tuggies still have kangaroo steaks on their menu? I’ll have mine rare thanks.

wildturkeycanoe said :

MissChief said :

Dear ACT Government,

Where have all the kangaroos gone? Please leave some for our enjoyment and to keep our grasslands looking like they once did, with roaming kangaroos NOT roaming gun lobby members.

Concerned Citizen

If you want to see kangaroos in the wild, natural habitat and the like, go to a nature reserve such as Tidbinbilla. We have national parks to protect these animals because when man and his society meet with nature, it is inevitable that nature will lose. Gun lobbyists don’t go to the protected parks to shoot roos, they only shoot where they are legally allowed to.
If you persist with this kind of pathetic dribble, how about standing up for the native birds whose habitats are being taken over by the indian mynah, or the countless animals being mauled by pet and feral cats, dogs and foxes. Without regular hunting and trapping, you’d be seeing grasslands of predators, not giant, furry hood ornaments.
PS – Kangaroos have caused me personally well over $5000 in damage to at least 4 vehicles, I’ve witnessed huge damage to many of my friend’s cars as well. Cull them off I say.

Any sensible person would slow down near kangaroos. You must drive faster than your speed of learning. Kangaroos are protected! Time may come that collision with a kangaroo will carry a mandatory fine with damage not covered by insurance. Why should others have to cover for your kind of attitudes!

MissChief said :

Dear ACT Government,

Where have all the kangaroos gone? Please leave some for our enjoyment and to keep our grasslands looking like they once did, with roaming kangaroos NOT roaming gun lobby members.

Concerned Citizen

If you want to see kangaroos in the wild, natural habitat and the like, go to a nature reserve such as Tidbinbilla. We have national parks to protect these animals because when man and his society meet with nature, it is inevitable that nature will lose. Gun lobbyists don’t go to the protected parks to shoot roos, they only shoot where they are legally allowed to.
If you persist with this kind of pathetic dribble, how about standing up for the native birds whose habitats are being taken over by the indian mynah, or the countless animals being mauled by pet and feral cats, dogs and foxes. Without regular hunting and trapping, you’d be seeing grasslands of predators, not giant, furry hood ornaments.
PS – Kangaroos have caused me personally well over $5000 in damage to at least 4 vehicles, I’ve witnessed huge damage to many of my friend’s cars as well. Cull them off I say.

CapitalK said :

HenryBG said :

JazzyJess said :

How awful. Imagine if a little child out walking with their parents came across that. There has got to be a better solution to culling.

I think a child’s response would be informed by whatever hysteria its parent chose to display.
*Your* response to the sight of a dead animal has the potential to be far more stressful to your child than the sight itself. You should tailor your behaviour accordingly.

Death is a very normal part of nature. It’s those who spend virtually no time in nature who get so upset about the sight of a dead animal.

We did pass a similar scene walking from Gungahlin to Evatt recently with 5yo and 2yo, it was quite disturbing but we just pushed the pram quickly and told the 5yo to keep looking ahead. All good, still not nice to see.

We did however go onto the TAMS webiste and report it and a ranger phoned my husband the next day to collect it

Personally, my approach to dead animals is to teach the children to dig a hole and bury it. You don’t need to encourage foxes or flies by leaving it there.

Dear ACT Government,

Where have all the kangaroos gone? Please leave some for our enjoyment and to keep our grasslands looking like they once did, with roaming kangaroos NOT roaming gun lobby members.

Concerned Citizen

Mysteryman said :

I have read your post and it’s inspired me to go and buy Kangaroo for dinner.

I’ve got a spare Joey head in the freezer at home I’m not currently using if you want it!

(for all the idiots out there – I am joking – sad that I feel the need to include this disclaimer)

HenryBG said :

JazzyJess said :

How awful. Imagine if a little child out walking with their parents came across that. There has got to be a better solution to culling.

I think a child’s response would be informed by whatever hysteria its parent chose to display.
*Your* response to the sight of a dead animal has the potential to be far more stressful to your child than the sight itself. You should tailor your behaviour accordingly.

Death is a very normal part of nature. It’s those who spend virtually no time in nature who get so upset about the sight of a dead animal.

We did pass a similar scene walking from Gungahlin to Evatt recently with 5yo and 2yo, it was quite disturbing but we just pushed the pram quickly and told the 5yo to keep looking ahead. All good, still not nice to see.

We did however go onto the TAMS webiste and report it and a ranger phoned my husband the next day to collect it

Nifty said :

“Justice is nothing else than the interest of the stronger.” Thrasymachos, Plato’s Republic, Book 1, circa 380 BC (or, for the PC brigade, BCE).

“It’s not a matter of loving fuzzy animals or of loving any animals – it’s a matter of justice. Roos have as much right to their lives as we have.” mos, 2:38 pm, 31 May 12.

Scorecard? Velociraptor 1, Joey 0.

Oooh, you are *good*.

Stevian said :

katkat said :

Chupakanga strikes again!

You’re mother must be so proud

I genuinely wonder what your issue with my comment is.
But yes, my mother’s quite proud. Particularly of my spelling and grammar.

crappicker said :

Now that this post is running to an end it is time for some reflections.

The many car tracks and blood puddles evidence a kangaroo slaughter in the northeastern part of the Wanniassa Hills Reserve.

The decapitated young kangaroo is clearly linked to this slaughter.

The government may say that their mercenaries can shoot straight but TAMS does not. Their TAMSMediaRoom comment and Daniel Iglesias’ performance in yesterday’s Canberra Times are just spin doctoring.

I have failed in calling crap what is crap, in entering a discussion on plausible denial. As a crappicker I still have to learn the ropes, or should I say the cables?

If I want to change archaic and barbaric customs I have to go for direct action. This week I have become a member of Voiceless and of the Wildlife Protection Association of Australia, will do so for the Australian Society for Kangaroos, and have offered my assistance to Animal Liberation for surveillance action. My old bones still will do in jumping a fence.

I will look further into those drones.

I have read your post and it’s inspired me to go and buy Kangaroo for dinner.

Now that this post is running to an end it is time for some reflections.

The many car tracks and blood puddles evidence a kangaroo slaughter in the northeastern part of the Wanniassa Hills Reserve.

The decapitated young kangaroo is clearly linked to this slaughter.

The government may say that their mercenaries can shoot straight but TAMS does not. Their TAMSMediaRoom comment and Daniel Iglesias’ performance in yesterday’s Canberra Times are just spin doctoring.

I have failed in calling crap what is crap, in entering a discussion on plausible denial. As a crappicker I still have to learn the ropes, or should I say the cables?

If I want to change archaic and barbaric customs I have to go for direct action. This week I have become a member of Voiceless and of the Wildlife Protection Association of Australia, will do so for the Australian Society for Kangaroos, and have offered my assistance to Animal Liberation for surveillance action. My old bones still will do in jumping a fence.

I will look further into those drones.

Postalgeek said :

Mysteryman said :

Postalgeek said :

Mysteryman said :

Moral relativism is great for debates and thinking outside the box, but in the end it doesn’t hold up well in the real world.

Moral relativism is exactly what happens in the real world. The slaughter of children around the world, honor killings, homicide, war, holocausts and genecide all point to moral relativism, killing acceptable to one group but not another. What do you think happened in recently in Homs?

Laws are abstract and artificial, and are frequently broken. That’s not to say that they aren’t valid or important, or can be physically enforced, but they don’t reflect the values of the entire citizenry, nor do they reflect the sentiment or values of other cultures and nations.

Moral relativism doesn’t [b]hold up well[/b] in the real world. It exists, yes, but I said it doesn’t hold up well. You’ve proved my point with your examples. Look at what results from it – the kind of behaviour that the vast majority of people are appauled by and would disagree with.

Laws are only as abstract as the society that implements them. They are created to serve the society that creates them, with relevance to the standards and morals upheld by the majority. There is little room for the moral relitivism of the individual in these instances, and rightly so, as it would come at the expense of the greater good of the collective group. This is clear from the examples you’ve given.

Well, the bigger picture is that there are different laws in different countries that reflect different morality codes. Capital punishment for a start. Between cultures there’s plenty of moral relativism.

As far as holding up well, I’d say moral relativism is the default position of humanity. Without law, which I’m happy to concede is important, would you have uniform morality in a society? With laws do you have uniform morality? Even within the bounds of law there is moral relativism eg religion vs liberalism. This whole thread is driven by moral relativism.

Anyway, there are whole books debating this topic, and work is calling. I’m content to agree to disagree at this point.

I think there are some common moral themes amongst most of humanity that are in fact the basis for the laws, not the result of them.

I’m happy to agree to disagree. I have other things I should be doing too!

Mysteryman said :

Postalgeek said :

Mysteryman said :

Moral relativism is great for debates and thinking outside the box, but in the end it doesn’t hold up well in the real world.

Moral relativism is exactly what happens in the real world. The slaughter of children around the world, honor killings, homicide, war, holocausts and genecide all point to moral relativism, killing acceptable to one group but not another. What do you think happened in recently in Homs?

Laws are abstract and artificial, and are frequently broken. That’s not to say that they aren’t valid or important, or can be physically enforced, but they don’t reflect the values of the entire citizenry, nor do they reflect the sentiment or values of other cultures and nations.

Moral relativism doesn’t [b]hold up well[/b] in the real world. It exists, yes, but I said it doesn’t hold up well. You’ve proved my point with your examples. Look at what results from it – the kind of behaviour that the vast majority of people are appauled by and would disagree with.

Laws are only as abstract as the society that implements them. They are created to serve the society that creates them, with relevance to the standards and morals upheld by the majority. There is little room for the moral relitivism of the individual in these instances, and rightly so, as it would come at the expense of the greater good of the collective group. This is clear from the examples you’ve given.

Well, the bigger picture is that there are different laws in different countries that reflect different morality codes. Capital punishment for a start. Between cultures there’s plenty of moral relativism.

As far as holding up well, I’d say moral relativism is the default position of humanity. Without law, which I’m happy to concede is important, would you have uniform morality in a society? With laws do you have uniform morality? Even within the bounds of law there is moral relativism eg religion vs liberalism. This whole thread is driven by moral relativism.

Anyway, there are whole books debating this topic, and work is calling. I’m content to agree to disagree at this point.

Postalgeek said :

Mysteryman said :

Moral relativism is great for debates and thinking outside the box, but in the end it doesn’t hold up well in the real world.

Moral relativism is exactly what happens in the real world. The slaughter of children around the world, honor killings, homicide, war, holocausts and genecide all point to moral relativism, killing acceptable to one group but not another. What do you think happened in recently in Homs?

Laws are abstract and artificial, and are frequently broken. That’s not to say that they aren’t valid or important, or can be physically enforced, but they don’t reflect the values of the entire citizenry, nor do they reflect the sentiment or values of other cultures and nations.

Moral relativism doesn’t [b]hold up well[/b] in the real world. It exists, yes, but I said it doesn’t hold up well. You’ve proved my point with your examples. Look at what results from it – the kind of behaviour that the vast majority of people are appauled by and would disagree with.

Laws are only as abstract as the society that implements them. They are created to serve the society that creates them, with relevance to the standards and morals upheld by the majority. There is little room for the moral relitivism of the individual in these instances, and rightly so, as it would come at the expense of the greater good of the collective group. This is clear from the examples you’ve given.

mos said :

It’s not a matter of loving fuzzy animals or of loving any animals – it’s a matter of justice. Roos have as much right to their lives as we have.

No, they really don’t.

Anyway, the long and the short of it is that some people don’t care as much as other people about animals, and there’s nothing you can do about that except to pass laws.

Likewise, some don’t care as much as other people about people, and there’s nothing you can do about that except to pass laws.

IMHO killing is a fact of life, but unnecessary death and suffering should always be avoided. I think for many the necessity is the debating point.

One doesn’t have to accept senseless suffering in order to accept the killing of an animal as necessary, or to carry out the action itself.

“Justice is nothing else than the interest of the stronger.” Thrasymachos, Plato’s Republic, Book 1, circa 380 BC (or, for the PC brigade, BCE).

“It’s not a matter of loving fuzzy animals or of loving any animals – it’s a matter of justice. Roos have as much right to their lives as we have.” mos, 2:38 pm, 31 May 12.

Scorecard? Velociraptor 1, Joey 0.

Mysteryman said :

Moral relativism is great for debates and thinking outside the box, but in the end it doesn’t hold up well in the real world.

Moral relativism is exactly what happens in the real world. The slaughter of children around the world, honor killings, homicide, war, holocausts and genecide all point to moral relativism, killing acceptable to one group but not another. What do you think happened in recently in Homs?

Laws are abstract and artificial, and are frequently broken. That’s not to say that they aren’t valid or important, or can be physically enforced, but they don’t reflect the values of the entire citizenry, nor do they reflect the sentiment or values of other cultures and nations.

mos said :

DrKoresh said :

Read it, don’t care, doesn’t sound unreasonable to me. Your fixation on the method of destruction on further serves to feed my belief that the majority of you nuts just wuv the fuzzy aminals to an unhealthy degree. Your AL buddy was full of shit anyway, the animal in the photo is clearly much bigger and more mature than the kind outlined in that document for decapitation.

As for your comments re: my intelligence, all I’ll say is that at least I’m savvy enough not to turn my life into some farcical, ideologically-driven pantomime.

It’s not a matter of loving fuzzy animals or of loving any animals – it’s a matter of justice. Roos have as much right to their lives as we have.

Where does it say that?

EvanJames said :

crappicker said :

No doubt there was a recent cull in this part of the WHR and little doubt that the car tracks are related to the location where I found the decapitated kangaroo. If TAMS denies responsibility, one has to query who is responsible for the decapitated young kangaroo and who for its removal between monday morning and tuesday morning?

Good detective work, plenty of people are reading this with concern, it’s just the nastier types are more prone to letting fly if they don’t like what someone else is saying.

Putting up that photo was a good reminder of what this cull is all about. Blood and violent death. At least the proponents are forgetting to bang on about how it is saving all the roos from starving, and instead revealing that it’s purely to protect their precious cars from roo-strikes.

Hopefully that joey enjoyed the short life he was allowed to have. There’s a lot of roos near where I live, they’re not starving despite there being heaps of them. The joeys in particular seem to have a good time. No one’s going to cull these roos.

An·thro·po·mor·phize – Attribution of human motivation, characteristics, or behavior to inanimate objects, animals, or natural phenomena.

DrKoresh said :

Read it, don’t care, doesn’t sound unreasonable to me. Your fixation on the method of destruction on further serves to feed my belief that the majority of you nuts just wuv the fuzzy aminals to an unhealthy degree. Your AL buddy was full of shit anyway, the animal in the photo is clearly much bigger and more mature than the kind outlined in that document for decapitation.

As for your comments re: my intelligence, all I’ll say is that at least I’m savvy enough not to turn my life into some farcical, ideologically-driven pantomime.

It’s not a matter of loving fuzzy animals or of loving any animals – it’s a matter of justice. Roos have as much right to their lives as we have.

crappicker said :

I had a further look in the area on my walk this morning. There are many recent car tracks in the Wanniassa Hills Reserve between the pond south of Long Gully Road and the pond west of Rose Cottage paddock, the two ponds in the northeastern part of the WHR. The car tracks pass about ten meter from where I found the decapitated young kangaroo. I noticed on my short survey a number of blood puddles, one on the main track below the power lines, another about ten meter long blooded drag trail well above the main track, and many substantial blood puddles near the pond west of the Rose Cottage paddock. No doubt there was a recent cull in this part of the WHR and little doubt that the car tracks are related to the location where I found the decapitated kangaroo. If TAMS denies responsibility, one has to query who is responsible for the decapitated young kangaroo and who for its removal between monday morning and tuesday morning?

Well may I explain. I was proceeding on a morning walk myself, in the area in question, when I happened to look about myself and took in the rather stunning visa, extending from the West of the Rose Cottage Paddock, and on to the Southern end of the Pond at Long Gully Road. The air was crisp with a faint, smoky scent that reminded me of my carefree youth growing up on the mission in South Africa. There was a slight fog rolling across my field of view and the dappled sunlight pushed through somewhat similar to the penultimate scene of the Spielberg flick Close Encounters of the Third Kind. I pulled out my mobile telephone and contacted many of my closest friends who are all members of my extreme dining group. They had the table, chairs, cutlery and tablecloth packed in a jiffy and were on their way. I am afraid it was their Range Rovers that generated the tyre impressions in the grass that you would have observed. Thankfully one of my closest friends brought a spare dinner suit for me to wear so I was able to change out of my tweed jacket and swap my gaiters for more suitable attire. That day we had a fantastic lunch – particularly of note was the fattened foi gras served on fresh garlic bruschetta I picked up from Silo Bakery on Tuesday. I am afraid it was not blood that you noticed, but the remains of an exquisite 1961 Chateau Le Tour Bonnet that we had with a luxurious leg of lamb, which was shot last week in the Mornington Peninsular and transported to Canberra in the boot of my companion’s Lamborghini Gallardo. Following lunch, we retired to the exclusive secret area at the rear of the Hyatt were we reflected on our good fortune in avoiding both the dot com collapse and the recent Lehman Brothers shenanigans. I am afraid I cannot shed any light on what happened to the poor kangaroo however I doubt there is a particularly sinister explanation.

mos said :

DrKoresh said :

What the feckity fudge? Seriously? The government goes around decapitating joeys? You Animal Liberation psycho’s will say any ridiculous shite just to try and sucker people in to your nutty organisation. Are you guys gonna be affected by the bikie laws in NSW? I was under the impression you were a criminal organisation. Or are you one of the nebulous auxillary ALF support groups?

Yes, DrKoresh, seriously. This is how the joeys are slaughtered. Refer .. http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/di/1994-149/19941116-11149/pdf/1994-149.pdf I’ll put your stupid comments re the Animal Liberation movement down to your lack of brain cells and education.

Read it, don’t care, doesn’t sound unreasonable to me. Your fixation on the method of destruction on further serves to feed my belief that the majority of you nuts just wuv the fuzzy aminals to an unhealthy degree. Your AL buddy was full of shit anyway, the animal in the photo is clearly much bigger and more mature than the kind outlined in that document for decapitation.

As for your comments re: my intelligence, all I’ll say is that at least I’m savvy enough not to turn my life into some farcical, ideologically-driven pantomime.

DrKoresh said :

What the feckity fudge? Seriously? The government goes around decapitating joeys? You Animal Liberation psycho’s will say any ridiculous shite just to try and sucker people in to your nutty organisation. Are you guys gonna be affected by the bikie laws in NSW? I was under the impression you were a criminal organisation. Or are you one of the nebulous auxillary ALF support groups?

Yes, DrKoresh, seriously. This is how the joeys are slaughtered. Refer .. http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/di/1994-149/19941116-11149/pdf/1994-149.pdf I’ll put your stupid comments re the Animal Liberation movement down to your lack of brain cells and education.

It’s not important what value I put on the life of the kangaroo compared to the value I might place on a human life – I was referring to the value an animal puts on his or her own life being akin to the value we put on our own lives. Nonhuman animals can live rich and complex and enjoyable lives. The fact that they can’t sit down over a coffee or at a keyboard and tell us about it is irrelevant. It’s our ethical duty to take their interests into account. ‘Culling’ them as if they were merely weeds is wrong.

Also, at least 1 in 20 of those who are shot will not be killed immediately. They will suffer pain and trauma until the shooter gets around to finishing them off – assuming he can find them. And, getting back to where all this started, the ‘at foot’ dependant joeys will be decapitated or bashed against the truck – again, assuming they are found – otherwise they will die of exposure, starvation or predation.

Liberation said :

Hi – thanks for posting this. Very sad. An important point I want to highlight is that joeys are killed this way through the Government sanctioned kills (ie. via the method of decapitation)! However this happened is exactly how joeys end up so it is a good picture as it highlights this factor as a result of government sanctioned kills. So ACT TAMS you have NO right to critique this picture (ie. the joey being so called hit by a car) because you agree to these kills every single year which is exactly how joeys end up anyway! Could the person who posted this news/photo please contact me on info@al-act.org as I’d love to hear more of your story and speak with you about this. Thanks and I look forward to hearing from you soon.

What the feckity fudge? Seriously? The government goes around decapitating joeys? You Animal Liberation psycho’s will say any ridiculous shite just to try and sucker people in to your nutty organisation. Are you guys gonna be affected by the bikie laws in NSW? I was under the impression you were a criminal organisation. Or are you one of the nebulous auxillary ALF support groups?

EvanJames said :

crappicker said :

No doubt there was a recent cull in this part of the WHR and little doubt that the car tracks are related to the location where I found the decapitated kangaroo. If TAMS denies responsibility, one has to query who is responsible for the decapitated young kangaroo and who for its removal between monday morning and tuesday morning?

Good detective work, plenty of people are reading this with concern, it’s just the nastier types are more prone to letting fly if they don’t like what someone else is saying.

Putting up that photo was a good reminder of what this cull is all about. Blood and violent death. At least the proponents are forgetting to bang on about how it is saving all the roos from starving, and instead revealing that it’s purely to protect their precious cars from roo-strikes.

Hopefully that joey enjoyed the short life he was allowed to have. There’s a lot of roos near where I live, they’re not starving despite there being heaps of them. The joeys in particular seem to have a good time. No one’s going to cull these roos.

Geez you’re a piece of work. The cull is about blood and violent death, is it? Do you actually think that the government is doing this for fun? Because they want to violently kill kangaroos for no good reason?

Postalgeek said :

Mysteryman said :

mos said :

Mysteryman said :

mos said :

“Is being killed in a cull any worse for a %u2018roo than being killed by any other method?”

Having your mother killed right next to you first you mean, Mysteryman? Or having your head cut off? The point is that the animals do not need to die at all. They get enjoyment from life – to take their life from them for no good reason is immoral.

“..could%u2019ve just been clobbered by a car and then dragged off to the side by a driver.”

The animal was in the reserve – not by the roadside, carnardly. But that’s not the point. This is how the joeys are slaughtered. Read up .. http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/di/1994-149/19941116-11149/pdf/1994-149.pdf

Are you actually suggesting that the death of a kangaroo is comparable to that of a human? Ridiculous and foolish.

Absolutely.

Then I’m wasting my time addressing you. Anyone who thinks the life of an animal is as important as that of a human isn’t going to see reason.

Value of life is entirely subjective and a human construct that bends in the wind. There’s no law of nature that demo states that one life is more important than another.

One human’s belief that all life is equal is as valid, or invalid, as another persons belief that human life is more important. In the end it’s inconsequential. There’s nothing stopping someone from valuing the life on an ant but being totally indifferent to your life.

Besides, all life is relatively important. A farmer in the third world will be more concerned about losing his cow than your death or mine, and that seems to me to be an entirely reasonable set of values.

Without other life, we are nothing, so in my books all life is important. That doesn’t mean I can’t kill it if required. But it should afford all life a respect derived from dependency.

Life is important, yes. Is all life equally important? Our legal system says no, as evident by the heavier penalties related to crimes against other humans, in contrast to those against animals. That is a pretty reasonable indicator of what our society as a whole thinks.

Moral relativism is great for debates and thinking outside the box, but in the end it doesn’t hold up well in the real world.

CT stole your news again.

Check out page 7 in today’s excuse for a paper

EvanJames said :

crappicker said :

No doubt there was a recent cull in this part of the WHR and little doubt that the car tracks are related to the location where I found the decapitated kangaroo. If TAMS denies responsibility, one has to query who is responsible for the decapitated young kangaroo and who for its removal between monday morning and tuesday morning?

Good detective work, plenty of people are reading this with concern, it’s just the nastier types are more prone to letting fly if they don’t like what someone else is saying.

Putting up that photo was a good reminder of what this cull is all about. Blood and violent death. At least the proponents are forgetting to bang on about how it is saving all the roos from starving, and instead revealing that it’s purely to protect their precious cars from roo-strikes.

Hopefully that joey enjoyed the short life he was allowed to have. There’s a lot of roos near where I live, they’re not starving despite there being heaps of them. The joeys in particular seem to have a good time. No one’s going to cull these roos.

Are they on private land? If so let me know. I need some more roo meat and if you have a steady supply of it I am happy to keep the numbers down.

crappicker said :

No doubt there was a recent cull in this part of the WHR and little doubt that the car tracks are related to the location where I found the decapitated kangaroo. If TAMS denies responsibility, one has to query who is responsible for the decapitated young kangaroo and who for its removal between monday morning and tuesday morning?

Good detective work, plenty of people are reading this with concern, it’s just the nastier types are more prone to letting fly if they don’t like what someone else is saying.

Putting up that photo was a good reminder of what this cull is all about. Blood and violent death. At least the proponents are forgetting to bang on about how it is saving all the roos from starving, and instead revealing that it’s purely to protect their precious cars from roo-strikes.

Hopefully that joey enjoyed the short life he was allowed to have. There’s a lot of roos near where I live, they’re not starving despite there being heaps of them. The joeys in particular seem to have a good time. No one’s going to cull these roos.

crappicker said :

I had a further look in the area on my walk this morning. There are many recent car tracks in the Wanniassa Hills Reserve between the pond south of Long Gully Road and the pond west of Rose Cottage paddock, the two ponds in the northeastern part of the WHR. The car tracks pass about ten meter from where I found the decapitated young kangaroo. I noticed on my short survey a number of blood puddles, one on the main track below the power lines, another about ten meter long blooded drag trail well above the main track, and many substantial blood puddles near the pond west of the Rose Cottage paddock. No doubt there was a recent cull in this part of the WHR and little doubt that the car tracks are related to the location where I found the decapitated kangaroo. If TAMS denies responsibility, one has to query who is responsible for the decapitated young kangaroo and who for its removal between monday morning and tuesday morning?

We need to get AFP forensics on the case ASAP, It’s by far the most important issue they could possibly be dealing with.

We deserve the truth.

And while they’re at it, I saw a dead kangaroo on the side of Sulwood Dr this morning, it’s entire spine was visible. Horrible. Can they check that one out for possible foul play also?

I had a further look in the area on my walk this morning. There are many recent car tracks in the Wanniassa Hills Reserve between the pond south of Long Gully Road and the pond west of Rose Cottage paddock, the two ponds in the northeastern part of the WHR. The car tracks pass about ten meter from where I found the decapitated young kangaroo. I noticed on my short survey a number of blood puddles, one on the main track below the power lines, another about ten meter long blooded drag trail well above the main track, and many substantial blood puddles near the pond west of the Rose Cottage paddock. No doubt there was a recent cull in this part of the WHR and little doubt that the car tracks are related to the location where I found the decapitated kangaroo. If TAMS denies responsibility, one has to query who is responsible for the decapitated young kangaroo and who for its removal between monday morning and tuesday morning?

Mysteryman said :

mos said :

Mysteryman said :

mos said :

“Is being killed in a cull any worse for a %u2018roo than being killed by any other method?”

Having your mother killed right next to you first you mean, Mysteryman? Or having your head cut off? The point is that the animals do not need to die at all. They get enjoyment from life – to take their life from them for no good reason is immoral.

“..could%u2019ve just been clobbered by a car and then dragged off to the side by a driver.”

The animal was in the reserve – not by the roadside, carnardly. But that’s not the point. This is how the joeys are slaughtered. Read up .. http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/di/1994-149/19941116-11149/pdf/1994-149.pdf

Are you actually suggesting that the death of a kangaroo is comparable to that of a human? Ridiculous and foolish.

Absolutely.

Then I’m wasting my time addressing you. Anyone who thinks the life of an animal is as important as that of a human isn’t going to see reason.

Value of life is entirely subjective and a human construct that bends in the wind. There’s no law of nature that demo states that one life is more important than another.

One human’s belief that all life is equal is as valid, or invalid, as another persons belief that human life is more important. In the end it’s inconsequential. There’s nothing stopping someone from valuing the life on an ant but being totally indifferent to your life.

Besides, all life is relatively important. A farmer in the third world will be more concerned about losing his cow than your death or mine, and that seems to me to be an entirely reasonable set of values.

Without other life, we are nothing, so in my books all life is important. That doesn’t mean I can’t kill it if required. But it should afford all life a respect derived from dependency.

mos said :

Mysteryman said :

mos said :

“Is being killed in a cull any worse for a ‘roo than being killed by any other method?”

Having your mother killed right next to you first you mean, Mysteryman? Or having your head cut off? The point is that the animals do not need to die at all. They get enjoyment from life – to take their life from them for no good reason is immoral.

“..could’ve just been clobbered by a car and then dragged off to the side by a driver.”

The animal was in the reserve – not by the roadside, carnardly. But that’s not the point. This is how the joeys are slaughtered. Read up .. http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/di/1994-149/19941116-11149/pdf/1994-149.pdf

Are you actually suggesting that the death of a kangaroo is comparable to that of a human? Ridiculous and foolish.

Absolutely.

Then I’m wasting my time addressing you. Anyone who thinks the life of an animal is as important as that of a human isn’t going to see reason.

Come on TAMSMediaRoom – you are obviously trying to cover something up. The people of Canberra deserve to know if there is a serial killing, 4WD driving Yowie or Bunyip out there killing kangaroos.

I often drive past some of the victims and see the that the murderers have spray painted their “tags” in flourescent pink paint on them in one, final act of humiliation on the deceased. It makes me want to vomit.

Of all the curiosities here I’ve seen, none have surprised me more than this.

Liberation said :

Hi – thanks for posting this. Very sad. An important point I want to highlight is that joeys are killed this way through the Government sanctioned kills (ie. via the method of decapitation)! .

Good.

I am glad that they are following the Commonwealth Department of Sustainability, Environment, Water, Population and Communities approved methods for euthanising joeys, rather than just letting them starve to death or be taken by feral predators.

It might not be pretty, but if done properly it is quick and painless. Something I would assume your organisation would want.

Liberation said :

Hi – thanks for posting this. Very sad. An important point I want to highlight is that joeys are killed this way through the Government sanctioned kills (ie. via the method of decapitation)! However this happened is exactly how joeys end up so it is a good picture as it highlights this factor as a result of government sanctioned kills. So ACT TAMS you have NO right to critique this picture (ie. the joey being so called hit by a car) because you agree to these kills every single year which is exactly how joeys end up anyway! Could the person who posted this news/photo please contact me on info@al-act.org as I’d love to hear more of your story and speak with you about this. Thanks and I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Is there actually a conventional train of thought being presented here? I’ve read this repeatedly and I can’t make sense of it.

Two things,

1) It’s not a joey, sure its looks like a young roo but it aint no joey.

2) Sure it ‘s heads missing but so are lots of other body parts. to say definitively that decapitation is ths cause of death is a drawing a very longbow – look at carcasses on the roadedge every major road around canaberra and see how quickly they get chewed up by foxes and crows.

grow up, and stop trying to make something out of nothing.

crappicker said :

TAMSMediaRoom said :

This kangaroo is not from any ACT Government cull. Long Gully Road is one of the main hot spots in the ACT for collisions involving kangaroos. Judging by its injuries it would appear to have been hit by a car. All kangaroos killed in the ACT Government’s current cull are quickly buried.

(snip) In my opinion it was clearly decapitated.

Well that’s the kicker isn’t it… you think it was decapitated. TAMS think it was a car collision. However will we solve this mystery?

There’s no shortage of idiots happy to engage in a spot of animal cruelty to get their jollies, though, so I’d suggest if there’s direct involvement in this it’s probably a rogue idiot rather than a government-sanctioned cull.

And maybe the reason the body is gone is because someone else ran across it and did something productive like burying it, rather than posting on the Riot-Act trying to stir up emotional involvement in a broader issue.

Hi – thanks for posting this. Very sad. An important point I want to highlight is that joeys are killed this way through the Government sanctioned kills (ie. via the method of decapitation)! However this happened is exactly how joeys end up so it is a good picture as it highlights this factor as a result of government sanctioned kills. So ACT TAMS you have NO right to critique this picture (ie. the joey being so called hit by a car) because you agree to these kills every single year which is exactly how joeys end up anyway! Could the person who posted this news/photo please contact me on info@al-act.org as I’d love to hear more of your story and speak with you about this. Thanks and I look forward to hearing from you soon.

mos said :

“Is being killed in a cull any worse for a ‘roo than being killed by any other method?”

Having your mother killed right next to you first you mean, Mysteryman? Or having your head cut off? The point is that the animals do not need to die at all. They get enjoyment from life – to take their life from them for no good reason is immoral.

“..could’ve just been clobbered by a car and then dragged off to the side by a driver.”

The animal was in the reserve – not by the roadside, carnardly. But that’s not the point. This is how the joeys are slaughtered. Read up .. http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/di/1994-149/19941116-11149/pdf/1994-149.pdf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwSKkKrUzUk&feature=related

How does the German Shepherd express his/her respect to the kangaroos? By staring intently, panting and salivating?

Do the roos respond in kind? Does some kind of ritual a la martial arts bowing take place…?

Will they still respect each other in the morning and send flowers?

JazzyJess said :

it is still an incredibly gruesome and bizarre sight for a child. .

No it isn’t, it’s just a dead animal with some bits chewed off by scavengers. Big deal.

In fact, these sorts of things are a learning opportunity – I remember as a 6-year-old kid my dad showing me a cow that had got trapped in a mire and then pulled apart by scavengers – we gathered up the bits to try to figure out how it all fitted together. I remember being fascinated.
I guess if dad had wanted to make me neurotic, he may have said, “UGH! How incredibly Gruesome! How Bizarre! AARGH! It’s AWFUL! NOBODY should have to see this horrible sight! Are you traumatised yet?”. And then he would have driven me home in his Subaru with the headlights on in plain daylight.

Mysteryman said :

mos said :

“Is being killed in a cull any worse for a ‘roo than being killed by any other method?”

Having your mother killed right next to you first you mean, Mysteryman? Or having your head cut off? The point is that the animals do not need to die at all. They get enjoyment from life – to take their life from them for no good reason is immoral.

“..could’ve just been clobbered by a car and then dragged off to the side by a driver.”

The animal was in the reserve – not by the roadside, carnardly. But that’s not the point. This is how the joeys are slaughtered. Read up .. http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/di/1994-149/19941116-11149/pdf/1994-149.pdf

Are you actually suggesting that the death of a kangaroo is comparable to that of a human? Ridiculous and foolish.

Absolutely. Any sentient animal who can enjoy his life, knows and seeks out the company of family members (especially his mother) and can feel pain and stress, would choose a pain- and stress-free life over being hunted and slaughtered – if he could.

Doesn’t your dog enjoy his life? Wouldn’t it be wrong for me to take that life unnecessarily?

TAMSMediaRoom said :

This kangaroo is not from any ACT Government cull. Long Gully Road is one of the main hot spots in the ACT for collisions involving kangaroos. Judging by its injuries it would appear to have been hit by a car. All kangaroos killed in the ACT Government’s current cull are quickly buried.

Thank you TAMSMediaRoom for your information that this decapitated kangaroo is not from any ACT Government cull. However I regard it disinformative to suggest that the injuries resulted from collision with a car. In my opinion it was clearly decapitated. The disembowelment may have been from prey feeding between Saturday night (my previous pass of the area was that morning) and Monday morning (my find). The kangaroo body had been removed when I checked on Tuesday morning! Could you please give me your opinion whether it is likely or unlikely that a car not related to a government cull could have entered the reserve between Saturday morning and Monday morning and would be responsible for the many tracks near to where I found the kangaroo’s body, and also whether it is likely or unlikely that anyone not related to the government cull would have removed the decapitated body between Monday morning, when I first attempted public notification, and Tuesday morning?

If I found this, whether alone or with my family, I’d probably throw up. As to modifying behaviour so that children aren’t upset, I think it’s fair enough to show emotion in front of children over something like this. I don’t agree with lying to children in general, and trying to pretend you’re not disgusted by a mutilated animal would be a kind of lying. Of course, you’d try not to let a child see this if it could be avoided.

Youz are all idiots.
I waz just pokin it wiv me stick and its head fell off

TAMSMediaRoom said :

This kangaroo is not from any ACT Government cull. Long Gully Road is one of the main hot spots in the ACT for collisions involving kangaroos. Judging by its injuries it would appear to have been hit by a car. All kangaroos killed in the ACT Government’s current cull are quickly buried.

I was hoping you guys would chime in and spread some light on the story, an abandoned carcus doesn’t fit with the MO of the culling program.

The only suspects left are:

– The OP’s hexacopter
– The OP’s dog
– The OP
– Professor Green with the candle-stick
– Nature

Or the picture could be fake. Who knows? A enigma wrapped in a mystery….

This kangaroo is not from any ACT Government cull. Long Gully Road is one of the main hot spots in the ACT for collisions involving kangaroos. Judging by its injuries it would appear to have been hit by a car. All kangaroos killed in the ACT Government’s current cull are quickly buried.

If I were to post a picture of a child in Syria’s turmoil with their guts spilled out, I’m sure there would be a completely different type of response to this. However, I agree with the point of some here that for most of history this scene is apart of the normal life cycle and we must teach our young to learn from it. For the “Boo, hoo, poor joey!” comments I only have to say this, next time you run into a 7 foot tall kangaroo at 11pm on the Parkway and your car is totaled, think of the poor joey while you fork out $1000 in excess and wait for weeks to get a resolution so you can get your lifer back in order. That little joey grows into a steel and plastic compactor, destined to seek nutrients on Canberra’s lawns and in the process cause much mayhem in our transport routes. This is the dilemma we face, much like the foxes I’ve seen recently in my travels in the inner city suburbs. Worry about your pet cat, chickens or small dog much? The foxes are hungry and will come into your backyard to find food, no matter what shape or size it is. Feral imported animal yes, not like kangaroos, but you get the idea.
Culling these native species doesn’t cause harm to the overall numbers or they wouldn’t be doing it. It’s about population control, not only continue what the aboriginals did for centuries, but to help them survive due to lack of food. If that same joey were run over by a car because it was trying to get to a golf course to find some nice grass to eat, or found barely surviving because it was starving to death on a school playground, would you feel the same way?
There was a dead turtle on the parkway with skid marks only metres away. Lets blame humans because it’s convenient.

HenryBG said :

JazzyJess said :

How awful. Imagine if a little child out walking with their parents came across that. There has got to be a better solution to culling.

I think a child’s response would be informed by whatever hysteria its parent chose to display.
*Your* response to the sight of a dead animal has the potential to be far more stressful to your child than the sight itself. You should tailor your behaviour accordingly.

Death is a very normal part of nature. It’s those who spend virtually no time in nature who get so upset about the sight of a dead animal.

+1. Some people are very far removed from the real world.

mos said :

“Is being killed in a cull any worse for a ‘roo than being killed by any other method?”

Having your mother killed right next to you first you mean, Mysteryman? Or having your head cut off? The point is that the animals do not need to die at all. They get enjoyment from life – to take their life from them for no good reason is immoral.

“..could’ve just been clobbered by a car and then dragged off to the side by a driver.”

The animal was in the reserve – not by the roadside, carnardly. But that’s not the point. This is how the joeys are slaughtered. Read up .. http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/di/1994-149/19941116-11149/pdf/1994-149.pdf

Are you actually suggesting that the death of a kangaroo is comparable to that of a human? Ridiculous and foolish.

HenryBG said :

JazzyJess said :

How awful. Imagine if a little child out walking with their parents came across that. There has got to be a better solution to culling.

I think a child’s response would be informed by whatever hysteria its parent chose to display.
*Your* response to the sight of a dead animal has the potential to be far more stressful to your child than the sight itself. You should tailor your behaviour accordingly.

Death is a very normal part of nature. It’s those who spend virtually no time in nature who get so upset about the sight of a dead animal.

I take your point; however, it is still an incredibly gruesome and bizarre sight for a child. BTW I grew up on a farm so it’s not like I haven’t seen dead animals before.

HenryBG said :

chewy14 said :

I saw a dog attack a small kangaroo a few weeks ago in a reserve when I was walking my small dog on lead. I’m not sure whether the kangaroo escaped but the dog was having a good go at him.
The dog was a German Shepherd.

I blame the OP for training Kangaroos near this area to not be afraid of his German Shepherd?

Truly disgusting OP.

Come on. At least *try* to be subtle. You’re not going to get any David Thorne ninja awards for that one.

Sorry,
didn’t have it in me.

HenryBG said :

JazzyJess said :

How awful. Imagine if a little child out walking with their parents came across that. There has got to be a better solution to culling.

I think a child’s response would be informed by whatever hysteria its parent chose to display.
*Your* response to the sight of a dead animal has the potential to be far more stressful to your child than the sight itself. You should tailor your behaviour accordingly.

Death is a very normal part of nature. It’s those who spend virtually no time in nature who get so upset about the sight of a dead animal.

+1 I can’t believe someone would actually pull the old “Somebody, think of the children!” line out. I don’t see how little kiddies relate to this thread, but Henry’s right, your own hysteria would be the most traumatic thing for child to see. Take the opportunity to let them know that everything will eventually die.

Stevian said :

katkat said :

Chupakanga strikes again!

You’re mother must be so proud

Your mother must have messed you up big time.

katkat said :

Chupakanga strikes again!

You’re mother must be so proud

chewy14 said :

I saw a dog attack a small kangaroo a few weeks ago in a reserve when I was walking my small dog on lead. I’m not sure whether the kangaroo escaped but the dog was having a good go at him.
The dog was a German Shepherd.

I blame the OP for training Kangaroos near this area to not be afraid of his German Shepherd?

Truly disgusting OP.

Come on. At least *try* to be subtle. You’re not going to get any David Thorne ninja awards for that one.

HenryBG said :

JazzyJess said :

How awful. Imagine if a little child out walking with their parents came across that. There has got to be a better solution to culling.

I think a child’s response would be informed by whatever hysteria its parent chose to display.
*Your* response to the sight of a dead animal has the potential to be far more stressful to your child than the sight itself. You should tailor your behaviour accordingly.

Death is a very normal part of nature. It’s those who spend virtually no time in nature who get so upset about the sight of a dead animal.

I reckon Henry is correct. Every living thing dies eventually, and the way our culture sweeps this fact under the carpet only makes it more traumatic when people inevitably encounter the death of someone or something they love.

If I was out walking with my kids and came across that I’d acknowledge that it’s not pretty, but maybe use it as an avenue to point out that this is what the world is like and discuss the cycle of life and death that affects us all.

I saw a dog attack a small kangaroo a few weeks ago in a reserve when I was walking my small dog on lead. I’m not sure whether the kangaroo escaped but the dog was having a good go at him.
The dog was a German Shepherd.

I blame the OP for training Kangaroos near this area to not be afraid of his German Shepherd?

Truly disgusting OP.

JazzyJess said :

How awful. Imagine if a little child out walking with their parents came across that. There has got to be a better solution to culling.

I think a child’s response would be informed by whatever hysteria its parent chose to display.
*Your* response to the sight of a dead animal has the potential to be far more stressful to your child than the sight itself. You should tailor your behaviour accordingly.

Death is a very normal part of nature. It’s those who spend virtually no time in nature who get so upset about the sight of a dead animal.

I don’t think the wedgies or foxes could normally take the head off a fresh corpse, and the cullers should have taken away any corpses they were responsible for.

Could have been a dog. Dog owners are pretty irresponsible when it comes to their pets and wildlife.

A swift bullet or blow to the head would be a much kinder death than the terror of a long-drawn-out mauling and suffocation inflicted by a dog, that’s for sure.

CSI Canberra………experts everywhere

“Is being killed in a cull any worse for a ‘roo than being killed by any other method?”

Having your mother killed right next to you first you mean, Mysteryman? Or having your head cut off? The point is that the animals do not need to die at all. They get enjoyment from life – to take their life from them for no good reason is immoral.

“..could’ve just been clobbered by a car and then dragged off to the side by a driver.”

The animal was in the reserve – not by the roadside, carnardly. But that’s not the point. This is how the joeys are slaughtered. Read up .. http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/di/1994-149/19941116-11149/pdf/1994-149.pdf

A much more likely culprit would be the OP’s roflcopter.

he’s also had a leg or 2 broken. he could’ve just been clobbered by a car and then dragged off to the side by a driver.

Clearly abducted and mutilated by chinooks

How awful. Imagine if a little child out walking with their parents came across that. There has got to be a better solution to culling.

EvanJames said :

Crows and foxes don’t eat the head, they go for the guts first (and the eyes). So I suspect the OP is right, the joey was killed as part of the cull or by scum not associated with the official cull.

It’s horrible to reflect on how those of us who don’t threaten animals cause them to become trusting, and then vicious scum move in and take advantage of this trust.

One of the many disgusting facets of the cull is what happens to joeys, and by the looks of it, happened to this joey.

Wow. Very worked up there considering you don’t even know what happened, or what caused it.

Is being killed in a cull any worse for a ‘roo than being killed by any other method? It ends up dead either way. Moral and ethical considerations are important for us but I’m sure they don’t really play much of a part in the animal’s mind.

Chupakanga strikes again!

Crows and foxes don’t eat the head, they go for the guts first (and the eyes). So I suspect the OP is right, the joey was killed as part of the cull or by scum not associated with the official cull.

It’s horrible to reflect on how those of us who don’t threaten animals cause them to become trusting, and then vicious scum move in and take advantage of this trust.

One of the many disgusting facets of the cull is what happens to joeys, and by the looks of it, happened to this joey.

Strange, it looks like its been eaten by foxes and crows….. no big mystery or conspiracy – the whole ‘save the kangaroo from the bogan yobo’ inference in the post is a bit much don’t you think?