Double demerits this weekend

Silentforce said :

I drive a modern car. In addition to brakes, it has a factory fitted speedometer too.

I get it. You have never exceeded the speed limit even by mistake.

Did you know that speedometers only have to be accurate within 10% from factory? They’ve tightened that up in recent years, but mine was a 1992 car. Fitting different wheels and tyres, and even tyre wear, can also affect your speedometer accuracy.

But I get it. You have never exceeded the speed limit. No doubt you are one of the people who thinks it is safer to overtake a car doing 90, by passing it doing 91 and spending half an hour on the wrong side of the road.

IP

I drive a modern car. In addition to brakes, it has a factory fitted speedometer too.

Tooks said :

But if I read it right, you got done for 15 over but you admit to being only 5 over. As you said, same fine and 1 point. Most wouldn’t bother fighting it based purely on principle.

Look, I’m not perfect by any means, but picking up excess speed because you’re going down hill is a pretty weak excuse. That’s why cars are fitted with brakes.

At the time it was 3 points. Doubled to 6. Ouch for such a small indiscretion. Agreed re: brakes, but engine braking often does the job. Truck drivers are encouraged to use engine braking, even exhaust brakes which are kind-of enhanced engine braking.

IP

OK, so will this result in our roads being cleaned up of the likes of the young guy in the white 4WD ute who thinks it’s a good idea to undertake at 120km/h on the hard shoulder along the Tuggeranong Parkway all the way from Lady Denman Dr to Cotter Road?

IrishPete said :

It also sends a message to the public that … they shoudl take more care.

They should be taking that much (more) care every friggin’ day of the year…

IrishPete said :

The announcement of double demerits gives the politicians and police the opportunity to front the media and get some publicity, which they might otherwise struggle to get if “double demerits” applied continuously. It also sends a message to the public that the roads are expected to be busier with holiday traffic, cars full of children and so on, and they shoudl take more care.

A politician struggle to get camera time for publicity? Are you for real? LOLZ!

The same messages about safe driving can be delivered without temporary double-demerits. Also, the initial shock/fear that double demerits delivered many years ago has very much worn off. If they are really serious about changing driver habits and behaviours, then they need a new approach. If that means permanently doubling demerit points (or changing/adding extra penalty increments) then so be it.

IrishPete said :

Personally I think it’s clumsy and bad government, …

+1. At least we can agree on this bit.

IrishPete said :

Tooks said :

People get so worked up about double demerits. At the risk of sounding like a smug bell end, demerit points don’t affect me whether it’s a double demerit period or not. Really, it’s not that hard to put your seatbelt on and not speed, is it?

[Should have mentioned this was in NSW, but I’m not sure that makes any difference.]

Well, yes, it can be hard if the excess speed gathered momentarily downhill, foot off the accelerator, fell within the normal margin of error and leeway that police give you. My expensive legal advice was that challenging it would be expensive (would require paying an independent expert), and even if I was 5km/h over for a second rather than 15km/h over for at least three seconds (those speeds are made up, I can’t recall what it was), admitting in court to being 5km/h over even momentarily was going to result in the same outcome in terms of demerit points.

There can be odd interstate effects. I think ACT Magistrates may be able to waive the points, I don’t think they can in NSW. Around the same time a guy I know lost his NSW licence in ACT for low range PCA, but not being a Canberra resident was unable to obtain a special licence to drive to work as these don’t exist in NSW. But a Canberra resident in the same position would have had no problem continuing to work (especially given this guy’s wife doesn’t have a licence due to a medical condition, so he’s the only driver).

I regret now not sub poena-ing as much as I could, because of course I never saw any evidence of what the officer claimed, just his scribble on a traffic ticket. I don’t recall him offering to show me the readout in the car, nor video or anything.

You should always ask to see the laser read out and they’ll usually show you without being asked.

But if I read it right, you got done for 15 over but you admit to being only 5 over. As you said, same fine and 1 point. Most wouldn’t bother fighting it based purely on principle.

Look, I’m not perfect by any means, but picking up excess speed because you’re going down hill is a pretty weak excuse. That’s why cars are fitted with brakes.

I personally think demerits and fines should be graduated more rather than <15,15-30,30-45 and 45+

I think <10 should be 1 point, 10-20 2 points, 21-30 4 points, 31-40 6 points, 40+ 12 points (ie automatic loss of license)
The fact someone going 16 over the limit and 30 over get the same punishment seem a tad harsh.

I don't think double demerits really do that much. People would change their habits normally if they were concerned about points and fines. Basically not enough police means people think they can get away with it.

Tooks said :

People get so worked up about double demerits. At the risk of sounding like a smug bell end, demerit points don’t affect me whether it’s a double demerit period or not. Really, it’s not that hard to put your seatbelt on and not speed, is it?

[Should have mentioned this was in NSW, but I’m not sure that makes any difference.]

Well, yes, it can be hard if the excess speed gathered momentarily downhill, foot off the accelerator, fell within the normal margin of error and leeway that police give you. My expensive legal advice was that challenging it would be expensive (would require paying an independent expert), and even if I was 5km/h over for a second rather than 15km/h over for at least three seconds (those speeds are made up, I can’t recall what it was), admitting in court to being 5km/h over even momentarily was going to result in the same outcome in terms of demerit points.

There can be odd interstate effects. I think ACT Magistrates may be able to waive the points, I don’t think they can in NSW. Around the same time a guy I know lost his NSW licence in ACT for low range PCA, but not being a Canberra resident was unable to obtain a special licence to drive to work as these don’t exist in NSW. But a Canberra resident in the same position would have had no problem continuing to work (especially given this guy’s wife doesn’t have a licence due to a medical condition, so he’s the only driver).

I regret now not sub poena-ing as much as I could, because of course I never saw any evidence of what the officer claimed, just his scribble on a traffic ticket. I don’t recall him offering to show me the readout in the car, nor video or anything.

I imagine that on long weekends there are more people on the roads driving further, which would translate to a greater potential for accidents. “Encouraging” motorists with the threat of greater penalties during these periods (I would guess) is an attempt to reduce the increased potential for accident during this time.

Or it’s a giant conspiracy against the demographic sub-classification you belong to and you specifically.