Duxton opens its doors. A review

I am absolutely obsessed with good beer and so can’t help myself (easily trolled maybe? … but then, most people here on this forum aren’t trolling they’re just equally passionate!)

So here’s a few of my two cents:

lob said :

Canberra need more small bars. The ACT Government needs to make it easier for people to open small bars. I really should be no different to opening a cafe. All the problems with alcohol consumption are from the larger establishments that operate into the wee small hours encouraging young people to get pissed/off their face. Is it too much to ask that in a city the size of Canberra there isn’t

Having just opened a cafe and thinking about a liqour licence I can’t agree more – it was pretty straightforward to open a non-licenced venue but the paperwork and hoops you need to jump through to sell a few interesting craft beers and a bottle of wine here and there (and I do mean a few craft beers / wines – we aren’t open after 430pm) is nuts!

lob said :

– a nice relaxing place you can go and Coopers is $5 a schooner
– fake European beers are not sold. – The ACT Government really should do something about this FRAUD. Peroni Italy my ass. Peroni Northmead Sydney made by Coca-Cola.
– The owner actively tries to get locally made beer on tap. [Not easy when we have f all breweries]
– Good beers from the US [where microbrewing is now huge] are actively sought out. Why isn’t there a single bar in Canberra serving Sierra Nevada’s range of beer when Dan Murf is now stocking these. I’m sure they could buy slabs at a discount and make a healthy profit selling 330ml bottles for around $6.50.

And btw in Sydney’s inner west you can still get Coopers for $5 at many pubs, and a lot even sell Coopers by the Jug. Canberra establishments are all run by capitalist money hungry a holes.

Having recently left the retail liquor industry I can suggest that despite the relative affordability of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale for the punter at the big evils like DMs & 1st the cost vs gross profit for these beers in a pub would make them less desirable. SNPA per case wholesale costs around $60 or $2.5 per bottle (inc GST). That would make it around $10 in a bar – 75% GP is about what most pubs put on items – they might be able to drop it to $8 maaaaybe but that would be a big ask for the owner whose costs (staff, rent, etc) are quite high compared with liquor stores or cafes.

That’s not to say that some pubs wouldn’t or don’t charge this – look at Debacle here in Canberra or The Local Taphouse in St Kilda or Surrey Hills (the latter have very few glasses or bottles of beer for less than $10 – I know they charge $9.5 for a bottle of Sam Adams Boston Lager). http://www.thelocal.com.au/

lob said :

The claim that Coopers is much more expensive than New/Carlton/VB et al is a lie. It’s about the same price for pubs and bars to buy wholesale. In fact the pub at Jerrabomberra Hotel was selling Coopers for $4.50 a schooner back in 2009. The Soul Bar in Woden also had Coopers on tap for $5.00 back then. Unfortunately neither has Coopers on tap now. Soul Bar had Zeirholz briefly on tap also, and then, took it off. Soul Bar now flogs a lot of fake Euro beers at inflated prices, and Jerrabomberra has gone back to just “working class water” [Carlton etc.]

Coopers is more expensive by the keg than Carlton or VB.

It just is.

Carlton is around $200-220 (inc GST) per keg and Coopers $220-250 depending on the deal you get as a publican.

lob said :

This is what Canberra mostly has in the way of bars now:

– Lots of Fake Euros at inflated prices (+ a fake beer pretending it’s from the Snowy Mountains (actually made in Campbelltown.) This beer is rubbish, no better than watery New/Carlton but sold at a premium price.

– Coopers mostly not on tap, despite it being the last large Australian brewery. Where it is on tap it’s increasingly around $6 or, , $7-something a schooner at that new place where the Nun once was. In bottles, at places like Ainslie it’s $6.50.

– VB, New, Carlton for “real blokes” still not more than $5 anywhere.

Yeah, “real blokes” (plumbers, builders, etc) get their beer at a reasonable price. They never pay over $5.00. Those of us who don’t like this mass produced, high carbon footprint, watery, chemical after-taste, poor excuse for beer have to put up with being ripped off. God I miss Sydney’s inner west. Give me the Courthouse or St Peters pub, etc etc, over the pathetic WATERing HOLEs in this sad town any day.

Agreed. But we do have some gems in the rough too: The Wig & Pen, Zierholz, Debacle, Pork Barrel Cafe does some nice beers, even The Durham has a pretty cool selection of Aussie craft beers in the bottle (inc Stone & Wood) + White Rabbit, LCPA & Coopers on tap, Sage Restaurant has some very interesting beers (I think available on Friday arvos too)

Also, I drank a Mountain Goat Steam Ale pint at A Bite To Eat last week

johnboy said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

This thread highlights one of the reasons that I home brew.

Fun and cheap, and a good excuse to have friends over.

Not such a great way to meet new people though.

Not true, JohnBoy. The Canberra Brewers Club is a great way to meet other good brewers!

http://www.canberrabrewers.org/

dtc said :

Duffbowl said :

Comparing the price against Euro brands is fraught with danger, for the reason pointed out by lob. Draught beer does not need to be labelled with a point of origin. You might think you’re drinking Peroni/Nastro Azzuro/Millers/Bulmers/Pilsner Urquell/Grolsch, but you’re drinking something made on the Central Coast by Pacific Beverages, a Coca Cola Amatil/SABMiller company.

Although presumably the same recipie and presumably it tastes the same as if it were made overseas.

Which is, of course, a different issue to how companies can charge as if it were an imported beer when, in fact, it is a locally produced beer.

Although they can change the chemistry of the water brewers will never get it exactly right especially since beer is usually 95% water and different cities have different water.

lob said :

Canberra is a f joke is you actually like REAL beer and like GOING out:
– No range of good beers
– Fake beers everywhere. (And not just the fake Euros, but a certain mob in Campbelltown Sydney called Independent Brewers [what a deceptive name] makes beer “from” the Claire Valley in SA, Byron Bay, The Snowy Mountains.)

http://brewzone.com/2009/06/20/nelson_beermap/

Sad isn’t it?

I appreciate your enthusiasm for good beer Lob but we do have good beer available here – The Wig & Pen is a great place for going out to drink world-class craft beer. As for range; they have something like 15 taps 🙂

lob said :

LarryBlaze said :

lob said :

milkman said :

Why is beer so expensive in this town? Because people will pay the prices asked. Simple.

Welcome to being wealthy.

A lot of us though simply don’t go out as much. There’s a HUGE gap in the market for a bar selling good beer at $5 a schooner plus good food [ie not frozen supplies cooked in fat.]

Yes there is a big gap in the market for a pub selling good beer for $5 a schooner

There are a few reasons why:

If you sold say coopers for $5 a schooner you would be out of business pretty quickly, it costs just over $2 just to a schooner with coopers pale or zieholts, leaving $3 per beer for rent, electricity, gas, wages, security, cleaning, insurance, apra licensing fees, marketing, book keeping, maintenance, liquor licensing fees, etc.

Explain then why most pubs in Sydney’s inner west (with the exception of a few wanky renovated holes like the Bank in Newtown) sell Coopers for about 30c more per schooner than New/Carlton/etc. How is it that pubs like the Courthouse often sell jugs of Coopers (works out to be about $3.80 per schooner.) I mean, surely, if what you are saying is correct, the rest of us are subsidising plumbers, electricians, builders etc [not that I’m stereotyping], so they can keep getting their beloved Boags/XXXX/New/Carlton at or under $5 per schooner. Isn’t this just a tad sexist, since few women drink these beers.

And what’s the go with the fake Euro beers popping up everywhere on tap. I’m guessing the margins for this watery AUSTRALIAN beer is huge. Everyone’s a winner: The bar flogging it off at highly inflated priced, the multinational flogging this sh** a little more than New/Carrlon. Hell, maybe even the customer who feels more sophisticated or something paying $7.50 for a flavourless AUSTRALIAN lager poured from a tap that reads Becks/Peroni/Stella/Etc.

I still think there’s a HUGH market existing in Canberra for someone (or a group of people) to open a small bar and
– sell Coopers for $5 per schooner
– As much good beer from local breweries as is possible on tap. Probably look at Sydney also.
– US Craft beers in bottles at a reasonable price.
– Belgium and German beers
– No fake brewed under licence beer.
– No New/Carton/flavourless beer.
– No frozen food cooked in fat. (This no-prep sh** food seems to be everywhere in Canberra. Especially at the clubs.)

Canberra is becoming an irrelevant backwater. On one of the online beer forums I belong to, Oliver is currently touring the US and posting this back:

http://homebrewandbeer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10738

Seriously, the ACT Government needs to do something. MADE IN AUSTRALIA signage on all these fake draught beers would be a goood start. Go to the US, Nelson NZ on a fact finding trip, find out why by comparison our microbrewing scene is so dismal. And why is that pubs and clubs in and around Canberra can’t be bothered to stock good beer in bottles from a range of small craft breweries from around the world. NZ for example is only 3 hours away by air, has a very good microbrewery scene, and the dollar is 1.27. Jesus, we import enough wine from NZ, why not beer.

lob said :

devils_advocate said :

The demand side for actual, proper beer is increasing, and the market is changing to meet that demand. As long as that continues, I don’t think we have any major reasons for cultural cringe.

Can’t agree with you. I don’t see many if any locally brewed beer on tap. I don’t see good beer in bottles at many establishments. Instead its just these three

Expensive Fake Euro beers. Now, these taste different because the ingredients, including water, are Australian. And, hello, they’re made by large multinationals. Their concerns lie in profit margins, quick production, advertising. As for taste, that’s hardly a concern. They hold such a poor opinion of people who drink beer; Their attitude seems to be: “just make it crisp and lacking in any real taste and we can stamp any famous name onto it.” $7.50+

XXXX, Boags, New, Carlton. $5

And then Coopers which is a good beer. But, probably only on tap at 1/3rd of bars in Canberra. I don’t think its on tap anywhere in Queanbeyan for example. (Roughly) same wholesale price as Carlton, Boags etc. Yet, varies in price from cheapest at $5 up to same price as BUL fake Euros at this new swanky O’Connors joint. (Still like to know how much they charge for a 1/2 pint btw.) People here do realise that Coopers is the last large family owned brewery in Australian Hands eh? I mean, Coopers actually care about making a good product.

That about it; I don’t see anything else in well over 90% of the pubs and bars around here. In the US my wife always finds a wheat beer. Shock Top, Blue Moon, etc. I can always find an IPA or Pale. Here, it’s a f joke. And, another thing, in the US, good beer costs about the same as their Carlton equivalents (Bud, Coors, etc.) It’s not suddenly 50% (or higher) more if you prefer Flat Tyre to Bud. It might be the same, or maybe 30c more. Also, when I was in the States last (2010), BUL beer, even on tap, was clearly labelled. And there wasn’t much of it. It’s all being replaced by microbreweries.

Another pet hate of mine too, apart from “Euro” beer on tap not being labelled as MADE In AUSTRALIA, (gee I’m such a whinger) is the lack of advertised beer prices clearly visible. You find out a place like Duxton’s charges $9 a pint after your beer’s been served and you $1 change back. Yet wine almost always has a menu.

Beer is waaaay more expensive here in Oz in part because of our stoopid excise laws.

In the US brewers pay something like 30c per six-pack of beer in federal tax for the alcohol in that beer. And it makes no difference whether the beer is a Bud Light with around 4.5% alc/vol or a Stone Oaked Double Bastard Ale at 10% alc/vol. And if you are a small brewer then you get a discounted rate making it around 11.8c per six pack.

http://ttb.gov/tax_audit/atftaxes.shtml

Here in Oz the tax is more like $4.36 per sixer of 5% beer and on top of that it’s volumetric! So an equivalent sixer of Stone would be $8.7 per sixpack. And the excise gets obsene after you go over 10%

http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?Docid=PAC/BL030002/1&PiT=99991231235958

There should be some form of beer equalisation tax for the little craft brewers here like the small wineries get – http://fairgocraftbeer.com.au/

Anyhoo.

Drink less, drink better.

I heart beer.

devils_advocate said :

The demand side for actual, proper beer is increasing, and the market is changing to meet that demand. As long as that continues, I don’t think we have any major reasons for cultural cringe.

Can’t agree with you. I don’t see many if any locally brewed beer on tap. I don’t see good beer in bottles at many establishments. Instead its just these three

Expensive Fake Euro beers. Now, these taste different because the ingredients, including water, are Australian. And, hello, they’re made by large multinationals. Their concerns lie in profit margins, quick production, advertising. As for taste, that’s hardly a concern. They hold such a poor opinion of people who drink beer; Their attitude seems to be: “just make it crisp and lacking in any real taste and we can stamp any famous name onto it.” $7.50+

XXXX, Boags, New, Carlton. $5

And then Coopers which is a good beer. But, probably only on tap at 1/3rd of bars in Canberra. I don’t think its on tap anywhere in Queanbeyan for example. (Roughly) same wholesale price as Carlton, Boags etc. Yet, varies in price from cheapest at $5 up to same price as BUL fake Euros at this new swanky O’Connors joint. (Still like to know how much they charge for a 1/2 pint btw.) People here do realise that Coopers is the last large family owned brewery in Australian Hands eh? I mean, Coopers actually care about making a good product.

That about it; I don’t see anything else in well over 90% of the pubs and bars around here. In the US my wife always finds a wheat beer. Shock Top, Blue Moon, etc. I can always find an IPA or Pale. Here, it’s a f joke. And, another thing, in the US, good beer costs about the same as their Carlton equivalents (Bud, Coors, etc.) It’s not suddenly 50% (or higher) more if you prefer Flat Tyre to Bud. It might be the same, or maybe 30c more. Also, when I was in the States last (2010), BUL beer, even on tap, was clearly labelled. And there wasn’t much of it. It’s all being replaced by microbreweries.

Another pet hate of mine too, apart from “Euro” beer on tap not being labelled as MADE In AUSTRALIA, (gee I’m such a whinger) is the lack of advertised beer prices clearly visible. You find out a place like Duxton’s charges $9 a pint after your beer’s been served and you $1 change back. Yet wine almost always has a menu.

lob said :

We’re a joke. An international laughing stock. People come here from Europe and the States and they cringe at the pathetic offerings in our bars and pubs. ACT could attract a lot more tourism if we had a vibrant microbrewing scene selling beers at $5 a schooner on premises and to other bars, pubs, and (I suppose) the clubs. If the Greens really care about the Environment, they’d talk their Labor mates into mandating a 50% on tap local beer (say with 200km radius) at all pubs/bars/clubs. That would start the ball rolling….

I don’t really think you know what you’re asking for. If you want cheap beer, well VB and carlton has always been available – however in my view these barely qualify as beer, due to the high level of cane sugar used, as opposed to malt. In any case, I agree these beers are an embarrassment.

I don’t think the mere fact that a beer is brewed under license makes it any worse than the imported stuff – provided they are brewing to the same recipe (I have no idea if the licensees have to stick fasidiously to the recipes, but certainly they seem pretty good). If the ingredients are the same, then the only real difference would be the price – beer is very expensive to move around. I should disclose that an increase in the price by itself does not increase the perceived value to me, I just care if it tastes good.

Finally, you mention the local micro brews. There are some great microbrewers locally and in Australia generally, including zeirholz. But they don’t have huge economies of scale, and making good beer costs extra. Having said that I think zeirholz’s offering is great value for money.

The demand side for actual, proper beer is increasing, and the market is changing to meet that demand. As long as that continues, I don’t think we have any major reasons for cultural cringe.

For the record Grrr I have drunk it. Only because, you know, you’re tired after work and the bottle is where Dans stock imported beer, and the bottle looks IDENTICAL to the real import bar some small 8pt print on the back label, or at the BASE of a slab. It was good…nice clean tasting. Not a hint of anything resembling beer. Expensive water though.

BUL Heineken. Someone gave me an entire slab of it for helping him move house. I found if I chilled it right down, and treated it like a Corona by adding a lime wedge it was drinkable. Just.

And, yeah, I’ve “accidentally” bought Pikes Pilsener supposedly from the Clare Valley, but made in Campbelltown. (Actually I know someone who owns a small winery at Murrumbateman. I tried unsuccessfully a couple of years ago to convince him they don’t have a brewery at their Winery in SA. They get it brewed in Campbelltown Sydney under contract.

That Snowy Mountains sh** on tap at Ainslie (made in Campbelltown, Sydney. No water from the Snowys involved. No local ingredients whatsoever. Purely a marketing exercise with their very small, almost homebrew, operation at a Pub at Jyndabyne a FRONT. Very boring, flavourless beer.

Byron Bay years ago at an Inner West Pub in Sydney years ago, around 2006. They were using two scantly dressed blondes to market the beer. “Would you like to sample some beer from Byron Bay.” Fricken hilarious. “Oh, yeah, the owner is planning on moving the brewery to Byron Bay though. But, yeah, it’s brewed elsewhere at the mo…” LMAO

Oh, yeah, and I had this unfortunate experience with BUL Peroni in December 2010:

http://homebrewandbeer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10275

Johnny, you can drink whatever you like.

But you’re wrong about most people knowing this beer is brewed under licence. The sad fact is there is not enough exposure in the media. Of the last TEN people I asked “You know that’s made here in Australia..” Not ONE person knew that to be the case. (Admittedly they were all public servants in the sample.) If that’s the argument (that everyone knows “European lagers” are brewed in Australia) for not having MADE IN AUSTRALIA, the ACT Government could simply do a survey in a bar one Friday night. And if people are just drinking a brand name, then I’m sure it won’t affect sales. (I think they’d drop significantly myself.)

You’re also wrong that there multinationals care about making a good Euro lager here in Oz. To quote Michael Jackson (the Beer Hunter – not the pop singer):

“Freddy Heineken had his own article of faith: that a proper lager cannot be made in fewer than 60 days, while most of its rivals worldwide would settle for 21 or even 14. He insisted that, in the American market, the beer remain a true import, and not be brewed under license. He was passionately proud of the Heineken yeast.”

After he died in 2002, Lion Nathan got the rights to brew it here. Talk about expensive tasteless water.

If you like these BUL beers, I don’t want to sound offensive, but have you ever thought your appreciation of beer might be the equivalent to wine in pubs 20 years ago: Just sweet cask Riesling. I walk into many pubs in NSW and the ACT and that’s all I see: The beer equivalent of cheap cask wine, except it’s not cheap.

Beer Advocate is a very good site btw. You’ll see if you browse the reviews that Australian beer rates very highly for all the wrong reasons: Truly horrible mass produced beers (XXXX, Boags, etc), Horrible Fake Euro lagers, and Fake Microbrewery beer (Beers like Pikes Pilsner. Clare Valley SA bla bla bla….Made under contract in Campbelltown, Sydney.)

We’re a joke. An international laughing stock. People come here from Europe and the States and they cringe at the pathetic offerings in our bars and pubs. ACT could attract a lot more tourism if we had a vibrant microbrewing scene selling beers at $5 a schooner on premises and to other bars, pubs, and (I suppose) the clubs. If the Greens really care about the Environment, they’d talk their Labor mates into mandating a 50% on tap local beer (say with 200km radius) at all pubs/bars/clubs. That would start the ball rolling….

lob said :

Kronenberg 1664 is a FRENCH beer. Their beer on tap is AUSSIE. Made with Australian water. Australian Hops (well, if you can call what little flavour there is in the Aussie version. My guess is that they use cheaper, less flavour, hop oil), & Australian Malt. It tastes nothing like the REAL version.

Have you actually done an A-B comparison?

I don’t know about the Carlsberg Group, but I’d be suprised if they were much different from other major brewery conglomerates: I was informed that for the Heineken Group’s international beers the brewers work very hard to make sure they taste the same regardless of which country’s brewery they’ve come from. Specifically this involves sending slabs of the stuff from each factory to the others for taste comparison on a regular basis, and on a less frequent basis sending the all brewers to head office to compare for themselves.

For the record, I ordered the 1664 because I liked it at the Tradies a couple of weeks ago. I assumed everyone knew that most if not all euro beers are brewed in Oz under licence. Jeepers, back in 1998 when I worked in a north London pub the Heineken and Stella were both brewed in the UK under licence, and their countries of origin are less than an hour away by plane!!

My post was actually about poor service in a “new” venue – not a good start for a new business. I wasn’t there when Todd Carney mistook someones leg for the urinal, but in ten years of eating and drinking at All Bar I never once had a bad experience.

And yes, the Redback was yummy!

I’ve been to Zierholz at the University of Canberra two Saturdays in a row . $7 for a pint or $4 for a half a pint . Great choice of locally brewed German Beers.

Had wood fired pizza the first time which was great and nachos last week , not so good .

Pretty much the same menu as Zierholz Fyshwick but with the addition of Pizza’s and more finger foods .

Through the week it has been pretty crowded with students but the last 2 Saturdays it’s been pretty quiet in there .

dtc said :

“wtf are you ordering that for anyways. It’s NOT Kronenberg 1664.”

I realise beer and coffee snobs don’t realise that other people do not share their obsession, but if someone purchases a beer that they enjoy, does it matter where it comes from? Had he purchased a micro brewery made of organic rain water (is there any other kind…) and paid that price and enjoyed it just as much as he enjoyed the beer he purchased, would that be acceptable to you?

Not everyone purchases beer based on the label or the origin. Some people buy it based on taste.

A real beer snob will tell you that both the locally brewed product and the original are crap because they’re made by a macrobrewery.

“wtf are you ordering that for anyways. It’s NOT Kronenberg 1664.”

I realise beer and coffee snobs don’t realise that other people do not share their obsession, but if someone purchases a beer that they enjoy, does it matter where it comes from? Had he purchased a micro brewery made of organic rain water (is there any other kind…) and paid that price and enjoyed it just as much as he enjoyed the beer he purchased, would that be acceptable to you?

Not everyone purchases beer based on the label or the origin. Some people buy it based on taste.

Went to Marinetti for a drink on the weekend after the rains. Was told I could not consume alcohol at the outside tables – someone had complained. I wonder who?

Brandi said :

The $15 veg pie I ordered there took a long time to arrive on what was a very quiet weekend lunchtime. The pre-made pie pastry was reasonable, the filling tasted like it came from a can of stew. On the other hand the chips were made from freschly sliced spuds with skins on, fried to perfection. Overall rating on the meal was below-average for price.

The counter staff were competent and friendly. The table staff outdoors seemed only to be responsible for removing your glass the instant that it looked like you were amlost going to put it down with somewhat less than a mouthful left in it. I’d put his down to experienced vs inexperienced staff, but get the new guys to work behind the counter with a veteran for a bit longer before sending them out on the floor to irritate customers.

The beer was expensive and I have nothing of value to add to the debate about Canberra beer prices.

The post-mix Coke was flat and watery when sampled as I took it back to my table.

The decor is understated to the point of being bland. Bikies will enjoy hanging out there for a footy game, but I prefer a little more colour and variety. At least the All Bar had a comfortable seediness to it that I was able to relax in, and was appropriate for the neighbourhood.

It’ll be interesting to see what it’s like at night. I suspect it will have more clublike tension and pretensions.

Haha they tried to take my boyfriends meal when he still had a chip in his hand and chips on his plate!!!

knuckles said :

Could be worse.

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=3865

Yes thats correct, $249.00 per stubbie. It is 41% ABV though.

And yet it costs AU$60 in the UK. Nice work if you can get it, this “importing extreme beer into Australia” lark.

johnnynorthside said :

Offered me a taste of the Redback wheat beer (yummy, a bit sweeter than Hoegarden, but very tasty)

First time I’ve heard a bloke describe a beer as ‘yummy’, lulz.

johnnynorthside said :

I am using my first-ever Riotact post to comment on a disappointing first-up experience at the new version of my local pub…

Beer: went back in for a second, since I was enjoying the atmosphere, and wifey had arrived. Ordered a Kronenberg 1664, schooner…..”

wtf are you ordering that for anyways. It’s NOT Kronenberg 1664.

Kronenberg 1664 is a FRENCH beer. Their beer on tap is AUSSIE. Made with Australian water. Australian Hops (well, if you can call what little flavour there is in the Aussie version. My guess is that they use cheaper, less flavour, hop oil), & Australian Malt. It tastes nothing like the REAL version. When you buy this fake beer at Dans and No Choice at least there’s (very) small print on the stubbie’s back label saying “brewed under supervision bla bla bla.” For beer on tap there is no disclaimer. This cheap, high margin (compared to Carlton/New/VB), fake Euro beer is spreading like a cancer through what few pubs we have in Canberra. – The $10 a 6-pack Euro beer at Aldo is nothing special but is superior to ALL the fake Euro beers sold in Australia. And, is actually made in Europe (Germany.) What’s a joke about Duxton’s though is how they’ve placed Coopers on the same price bracket as the fake Euros. At least the a holes who run the Uni Pub (who’s owner loves the Ivy [Sydney] – …and is building The Canberra Ivy next door. ROFLMAO) have a THREE TIER price structure – Carlton for their plumber/builder patrons for $5, Coopers for beer snobs like me for around $6, and the Fake Euros $7.50. And ah anything females like to drink (Euros, but also Corona – say what you will about Corona – at least it’s actually made in Mexico), $7.50. But of course, in the comments section of a Canberra Times article on the Uni Pubs expansion about a year or so ago, the price structure isn’t sexist, because as “Henry”, who is not an owner or in anyway associated with the Uni Pub, pointed out, his girlfriend likes to drink Carlton. LMAO.

Here btw is a very long discussion on a local beer forum regarding fake imports/brewed under licence beer:

http://homebrewandbeer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7372

The ACT Government should mandate MADE IN AUSTRALIA in 20pt type for all this watery Aussie lager on tap. It’s FRAUD. People buy Peroni etc believing they’re buying a beer made in Europe. The a holes who run the pubs in Canberra will soon take this sh** off tap once their customers know the truth.

I am using my first-ever Riotact post to comment on a disappointing first-up experience at the new version of my local pub.

After enjoying the beers, food and staff at All Bar Nun for more than ten (10) years as a resident of O’Connor, I finally had the chance to pop in today for an after-work beer.

Initial thoughts were: great! Slightly new decor, very friendly staff, some new beers, new menu (some items seemed competitively priced, i.e eggs benedict for $12.90), happy days!!

The bartender who served me first was very, very friendly. I asked him how it was going, how business was going, etc. He was effusive in his praise for the first few weeks of trade. Offered me a taste of the Redback wheat beer (yummy, a bit sweeter than Hoegarden, but very tasty) and I bought a schooner for $7. Wandered outside with a menu, and thought “cool guys, shame the All Bar folk got the heave-ho, but hey, that’s progress”.

This soon soured.

Menu: a few items seemed good value, obviously proof would be in the tasting, but $9 for chips? I don’t care what you batter them in, come on guys, 9 bucks for a plate of chips? This might explain the BMW X6 parked out the front for the last few weeks…

Beer: went back in for a second, since I was enjoying the atmosphere, and wifey had arrived. Ordered a Kronenberg 1664, schooner. Gave the (different) bartender a tenner, got a dollar back, plus a beer around 1cm short of the top of the glass with not much of a head.
I questioned the $9 charge for a schooner, and was told in no uncertain terms that “I gave you $2 back” I commented that, no, you didnt, and still, $8 for a schooner? Bartender said “actually it’s $7”. I was a tad confused, but moved on the the issue of less than a schooner of beer. “Regardless of the cost, may I please get this topped up?” Again, in no uncertain (i.e rude) terms I was told “the head should be two fingers wide”…
Now I’m not here to quibble over how big a head on a beer should be, but two fingers of head on a schooner? Even if that was acceptable, you don’t say “at least there is less head” when I comment that actually there is no head!
Bad pouring, bad training, regardless, bad customer service. Top up the beer for goodness sake. And to argue after getting both my change and price of the beer incorrect?!

This may seem petty, but bollocks: be friendly, top up a blokes beer, and admit if you make a mistake. (anyone see 4 Corners tonight?)

Debacle has remained consistent for the ten years I have been enjoying their 2 for 1 pizzas.Tilley’s is, well, devine. Even the Tradies schnitzels are better than ever.
Sadly, my wonderful corner pub at the local shops is gone. Vale All Bar Nun.

Even more sad is the loss of Marinietti’s, the tastiest and best priced Italian restaurant in Canberra, but that’s another subject. Most telling was, that, after leaving Duxton, I wandered past whatever Marinetti’s is called now, and there was one person in there, having a coffee.

At least the veg spring rolls at Tudo are still to die for!

So, is there a link to any websites yet? I cant fond any on Google but they can get hidden when they are new.

Anybody know if there are any weeknight specials, particularly Wednesday?

Discalimer: I have not read the whole thread, 75 posts of people winging about the price of beer was getting boring.

Coopers Pale is still $5 a schooner at the Astor Hotel in Goulburn. I was there on Friday.

Coopers Pale: $4.50 (stubbie – not on tap) at the pub on the corner of Byron and Sheridon Street at Gundagai.

Yeah the BS that Coopers is some sort of expensive boutique beer for pubs to provide is just a con/excuse for Canberra bars to make lots of extra $$$$ per schooner sold. This probably explains (i) the move to pints also (similar to how Coles and Woolies – concerned as they are about obesity – upsize all the chocolate bars etc (or 2 for $5, 3 for $7 etc) to return better profits per sale.) And (ii) their new love of cheap flavourless Aussie lager relabeled as famous European brands. Like Coopers, they get to charge $7.50+ per schooner rather than the $4.70 – $5.00 per schooner for Carlton/VB/New/etc. What I find hysterical about this Big Con though, is not so much being ripped off itself, it’s the Con that we now have a large range of good beer on tap in Canberra bars compared with, say, 10 years ago.

Also, I went to the pub at Jugiong yesterday (despite the rain), 1/2 pints of Zierholz are $3.70 (under the name Jugong Black.) FIRST time I have ever seen a beer on tap in country NSW that wasn’t from the large breweries (XXXX, Carlton et al.)

Can someone post the cost of a 1/2 pint of Coopers at this new Duxtons hole. I’m guessing $6??? I’m not a pint drinker, because (cough) if there is some variety, sample a couple of beers. And, er, it’s not like Canberra has public transport. Two pints is easily over the limit. I really do object to pubs/bars making pints the more economical choice by hiking up the cost of schooners or 1/2 pints by comparison.

Meanwhile, in the USA, microbrewing continues to grow at a phenomenal rate, bars go out of their way to put as much variety from a variety of breweries on tap, and we’re stuck back here in the 1970s.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/03/us/craft-brewing-finds-a-welcoming-atmosphere.html?_r=1

Duxton: good name for a pub if you’re trying to attract pretentious wankers, which I suspect they are.

Coopers now $8, cheapest in town, had one tonight!!!! Also had pull-apart pork sambo and was great. Worth a look if haven’t been yet. Great atmosphere.

CHOICE
There are several places I never visit becuase of what their ‘new’ owners have done which I dissaprove which you can make your own guess as to why if you know your history:
Duxton
Tongue and Groove
Gus’ Cafe
Sultans
Whatever rises out of the ashes at Holy Grail
ICBM
The Australian (went bust months ago)

I had a cider for $5.50 at the Pot Belly in Belconnen today. Excellent local Pub. They have Coopers on tap, as well as usual suspects.

LarryBlaze said :

lob said :

milkman said :

Why is beer so expensive in this town? Because people will pay the prices asked. Simple.

Welcome to being wealthy.

A lot of us though simply don’t go out as much. There’s a HUGE gap in the market for a bar selling good beer at $5 a schooner plus good food [ie not frozen supplies cooked in fat.]

Yes there is a big gap in the market for a pub selling good beer for $5 a schooner

There are a few reasons why:

If you sold say coopers for $5 a schooner you would be out of business pretty quickly, it costs just over $2 just to a schooner with coopers pale or zieholts, leaving $3 per beer for rent, electricity, gas, wages, security, cleaning, insurance, apra licensing fees, marketing, book keeping, maintenance, liquor licensing fees, etc.

Explain then why most pubs in Sydney’s inner west (with the exception of a few wanky renovated holes like the Bank in Newtown) sell Coopers for about 30c more per schooner than New/Carlton/etc. How is it that pubs like the Courthouse often sell jugs of Coopers (works out to be about $3.80 per schooner.) I mean, surely, if what you are saying is correct, the rest of us are subsidising plumbers, electricians, builders etc [not that I’m stereotyping], so they can keep getting their beloved Boags/XXXX/New/Carlton at or under $5 per schooner. Isn’t this just a tad sexist, since few women drink these beers.

And what’s the go with the fake Euro beers popping up everywhere on tap. I’m guessing the margins for this watery AUSTRALIAN beer is huge. Everyone’s a winner: The bar flogging it off at highly inflated priced, the multinational flogging this sh** a little more than New/Carrlon. Hell, maybe even the customer who feels more sophisticated or something paying $7.50 for a flavourless AUSTRALIAN lager poured from a tap that reads Becks/Peroni/Stella/Etc.

I still think there’s a HUGH market existing in Canberra for someone (or a group of people) to open a small bar and
– sell Coopers for $5 per schooner
– As much good beer from local breweries as is possible on tap. Probably look at Sydney also.
– US Craft beers in bottles at a reasonable price.
– Belgium and German beers
– No fake brewed under licence beer.
– No New/Carton/flavourless beer.
– No frozen food cooked in fat. (This no-prep sh** food seems to be everywhere in Canberra. Especially at the clubs.)

Canberra is becoming an irrelevant backwater. On one of the online beer forums I belong to, Oliver is currently touring the US and posting this back:

http://homebrewandbeer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10738

Seriously, the ACT Government needs to do something. MADE IN AUSTRALIA signage on all these fake draught beers would be a goood start. Go to the US, Nelson NZ on a fact finding trip, find out why by comparison our microbrewing scene is so dismal. And why is that pubs and clubs in and around Canberra can’t be bothered to stock good beer in bottles from a range of small craft breweries from around the world. NZ for example is only 3 hours away by air, has a very good microbrewery scene, and the dollar is 1.27. Jesus, we import enough wine from NZ, why not beer.

Could be worse.

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=3865

Yes thats correct, $249.00 per stubbie. It is 41% ABV though.

Brandi – just wondering about your reference to bikies and footy games? What’s the go there?

lob said :

milkman said :

Why is beer so expensive in this town? Because people will pay the prices asked. Simple.

Welcome to being wealthy.

A lot of us though simply don’t go out as much. There’s a HUGE gap in the market for a bar selling good beer at $5 a schooner plus good food [ie not frozen supplies cooked in fat.]

Yes there is a big gap in the market for a pub selling good beer for $5 a schooner

There are a few reasons why:

If you sold say coopers for $5 a schooner you would be out of business pretty quickly, it costs just over $2 just to a schooner with coopers pale or zieholts, leaving $3 per beer for rent, electricity, gas, wages, security, cleaning, insurance, apra licensing fees, marketing, book keeping, maintenance, liquor licensing fees, etc.

The $15 veg pie I ordered there took a long time to arrive on what was a very quiet weekend lunchtime. The pre-made pie pastry was reasonable, the filling tasted like it came from a can of stew. On the other hand the chips were made from freschly sliced spuds with skins on, fried to perfection. Overall rating on the meal was below-average for price.

The counter staff were competent and friendly. The table staff outdoors seemed only to be responsible for removing your glass the instant that it looked like you were amlost going to put it down with somewhat less than a mouthful left in it. I’d put his down to experienced vs inexperienced staff, but get the new guys to work behind the counter with a veteran for a bit longer before sending them out on the floor to irritate customers.

The beer was expensive and I have nothing of value to add to the debate about Canberra beer prices.

The post-mix Coke was flat and watery when sampled as I took it back to my table.

The decor is understated to the point of being bland. Bikies will enjoy hanging out there for a footy game, but I prefer a little more colour and variety. At least the All Bar had a comfortable seediness to it that I was able to relax in, and was appropriate for the neighbourhood.

It’ll be interesting to see what it’s like at night. I suspect it will have more clublike tension and pretensions.

TheDancingDjinn said :

lob said :

Yeah, I’m amazed at many of the comments here.

COOPERS PALE: The issue with Coopers is that it is a good beer. One of the few good beers that we make on a large scale in Australia. It shouldn’t cost more than VB, New, Carlton because it’s sold on the basis that’s it’s competing with New etc. It’s just that pubs here in Canberra choose to sell it as if it’s from some exotic brewery in Iceland and transported 10,000 miles. BS. In Sydney’s inner west you can still get it at many good pubs for $5. There’s one pub in Goulburn still selling it for this price also.

EUROPEAN BEERS ON TAP: There are not any. Basically a large company like Coca-Cola pays $$$$ to a large business in Europe for the rights to re-label their version they make here in Australia. It’s hard to make a good lager. Easy to make a cheap ‘n nasty flavourless one. Reps like it because they charge the pub more. Pubs like it because they charge customers substantially more. And as for customers, well they’re just dunm and easily parted with their money. The media is silent because they’re morons. Politicians are silent because they all go to wine bars – they don’t drink beer. If they started playing this trick with Margaret River Red made under licence in the Hunter Valley then all hell would break loose.

EUROPEAN BEER IN BOTTLES: Almost exclusively Australian beer now, just relabeled. Try doing this with some famous brand handbag in Westfields and you’ll be arrested. Yet Dan and No Choice flog this FAKE tasteless beer at a premium price and it’s all perfectly ok. (To be fair, on the slab of beer like Peroni, if you turn it upside down, and look at the base, you’ll read “Brewed under Supervision…bla bla blab..Northmead, Sydney..”

Canberra is a f joke is you actually like REAL beer and like GOING out:
– No range of good beers
– Fake beers everywhere. (And not just the fake Euros, but a certain mob in Campbelltown Sydney called Independent Brewers [what a deceptive name] makes beer “from” the Claire Valley in SA, Byron Bay, The Snowy Mountains.)

We have a population of 358,000 people and we have TWO breweries. One of which only sells on it’s own premises [Wig & Pen.] The other, Zeirholz, does and is willing to provide their beer on tap to bars and pubs, but, you know, they all seem to be run by clueless f-wits, or capitalist creeps only concerned about margins per schooner. Na, f schooners, better margins in pints. And easier to justify $9.

Here’s breweries in and around Nelson NZ. Population 60,000. Let’s say, 100,000 if you include the surrounding area. Less than 1/3rd of Canberra, and 14 Breweries/Brew pubs.

http://brewzone.com/2009/06/20/nelson_beermap/

Sad isn’t it?

My favourite part , is where you call into quetion the itelligence of the customer – but you can’t spell Dumb.

One word in how many? Oh is that what the little redd undeline thind is. Always wondid. Good to see the new owners posting hare is support of their new high-clas upmarket estabishment though. Not to mention support for they’re dum customers.

A few tips though, rather than just attack the messenger first, start by making up some more stories about how (i) Coopers is really really expensive to buy, and (ii) how you don’t need a dislaimer like “MADE IN AUSTRALIA” for beer on tap because, apparently, everyone knows its Australian. And the guys from Peroni etc come over to supervise and lots of taste testing is done. It tastes 100% the same! Or (iii) I personally know the new owners, and they’re actually running at a loss. I think they should charhe $10 per pint. And schooners lob are so 2010. No one drinks from schooners anymore. Real blokes drink pints. 3 or 4 of them, and go for long drives out to Cotter and back. Only now, after some smokescreen BS, go in for the personal attack stuff (but lay off the spelling because it shows “lameness” on your part.): “And if you like Nelson so much, just move there you winging Kiwi.” Etc, etc, etc. Just trying to help you and your mates out with your new establishment. And best of luck with thoes $9 Punts.

shauno said :

taninaus said :

The other oddity is in the ladies loos whoever installed the hand dryer (one of those fabulous dyson ones) must have been very tall as it was almost impossible for me to comfortably slide my hands into the top to use it (yeah, I am not tall)

haha are we talking midget height of just short

🙂 LOL – about as tall as the ladies in the top picture – really it depends who I stand next to!

TheDancingDjinn said :

lob said :

Yeah, I’m amazed at many of the comments here.

COOPERS PALE: The issue with Coopers is that it is a good beer. One of the few good beers that we make on a large scale in Australia. It shouldn’t cost more than VB, New, Carlton because it’s sold on the basis that’s it’s competing with New etc. It’s just that pubs here in Canberra choose to sell it as if it’s from some exotic brewery in Iceland and transported 10,000 miles. BS. In Sydney’s inner west you can still get it at many good pubs for $5. There’s one pub in Goulburn still selling it for this price also.

EUROPEAN BEERS ON TAP: There are not any. Basically a large company like Coca-Cola pays $$$$ to a large business in Europe for the rights to re-label their version they make here in Australia. It’s hard to make a good lager. Easy to make a cheap ‘n nasty flavourless one. Reps like it because they charge the pub more. Pubs like it because they charge customers substantially more. And as for customers, well they’re just dunm and easily parted with their money. The media is silent because they’re morons. Politicians are silent because they all go to wine bars – they don’t drink beer. If they started playing this trick with Margaret River Red made under licence in the Hunter Valley then all hell would break loose.

EUROPEAN BEER IN BOTTLES: Almost exclusively Australian beer now, just relabeled. Try doing this with some famous brand handbag in Westfields and you’ll be arrested. Yet Dan and No Choice flog this FAKE tasteless beer at a premium price and it’s all perfectly ok. (To be fair, on the slab of beer like Peroni, if you turn it upside down, and look at the base, you’ll read “Brewed under Supervision…bla bla blab..Northmead, Sydney..”

Canberra is a f joke is you actually like REAL beer and like GOING out:
– No range of good beers
– Fake beers everywhere. (And not just the fake Euros, but a certain mob in Campbelltown Sydney called Independent Brewers [what a deceptive name] makes beer “from” the Claire Valley in SA, Byron Bay, The Snowy Mountains.)

We have a population of 358,000 people and we have TWO breweries. One of which only sells on it’s own premises [Wig & Pen.] The other, Zeirholz, does and is willing to provide their beer on tap to bars and pubs, but, you know, they all seem to be run by clueless f-wits, or capitalist creeps only concerned about margins per schooner. Na, f schooners, better margins in pints. And easier to justify $9.

Here’s breweries in and around Nelson NZ. Population 60,000. Let’s say, 100,000 if you include the surrounding area. Less than 1/3rd of Canberra, and 14 Breweries/Brew pubs.

http://brewzone.com/2009/06/20/nelson_beermap/

Sad isn’t it?

My favourite part , is where you call into quetion the itelligence of the customer – but you can’t spell Dumb.

intelligence even – damn you new keyboard with your new buttons im not used to using!!

lob said :

Yeah, I’m amazed at many of the comments here.

COOPERS PALE: The issue with Coopers is that it is a good beer. One of the few good beers that we make on a large scale in Australia. It shouldn’t cost more than VB, New, Carlton because it’s sold on the basis that’s it’s competing with New etc. It’s just that pubs here in Canberra choose to sell it as if it’s from some exotic brewery in Iceland and transported 10,000 miles. BS. In Sydney’s inner west you can still get it at many good pubs for $5. There’s one pub in Goulburn still selling it for this price also.

EUROPEAN BEERS ON TAP: There are not any. Basically a large company like Coca-Cola pays $$$$ to a large business in Europe for the rights to re-label their version they make here in Australia. It’s hard to make a good lager. Easy to make a cheap ‘n nasty flavourless one. Reps like it because they charge the pub more. Pubs like it because they charge customers substantially more. And as for customers, well they’re just dunm and easily parted with their money. The media is silent because they’re morons. Politicians are silent because they all go to wine bars – they don’t drink beer. If they started playing this trick with Margaret River Red made under licence in the Hunter Valley then all hell would break loose.

EUROPEAN BEER IN BOTTLES: Almost exclusively Australian beer now, just relabeled. Try doing this with some famous brand handbag in Westfields and you’ll be arrested. Yet Dan and No Choice flog this FAKE tasteless beer at a premium price and it’s all perfectly ok. (To be fair, on the slab of beer like Peroni, if you turn it upside down, and look at the base, you’ll read “Brewed under Supervision…bla bla blab..Northmead, Sydney..”

Canberra is a f joke is you actually like REAL beer and like GOING out:
– No range of good beers
– Fake beers everywhere. (And not just the fake Euros, but a certain mob in Campbelltown Sydney called Independent Brewers [what a deceptive name] makes beer “from” the Claire Valley in SA, Byron Bay, The Snowy Mountains.)

We have a population of 358,000 people and we have TWO breweries. One of which only sells on it’s own premises [Wig & Pen.] The other, Zeirholz, does and is willing to provide their beer on tap to bars and pubs, but, you know, they all seem to be run by clueless f-wits, or capitalist creeps only concerned about margins per schooner. Na, f schooners, better margins in pints. And easier to justify $9.

Here’s breweries in and around Nelson NZ. Population 60,000. Let’s say, 100,000 if you include the surrounding area. Less than 1/3rd of Canberra, and 14 Breweries/Brew pubs.

http://brewzone.com/2009/06/20/nelson_beermap/

Sad isn’t it?

My favourite part , is where you call into quetion the itelligence of the customer – but you can’t spell Dumb.

Thoroughly Smashed said :

lob said :

Yeah, I’m amazed at many of the comments here.

None so amazing as yours.

Thanks! I put a lot of thought into all my posts.

lob said :

Yeah, I’m amazed at many of the comments here.

None so amazing as yours.

dtc said :

Although presumably the same recipie and presumably it tastes the same as if it were made overseas.

I think you’ll find that the water used to create the beer, even with the exact same ingredients, will cause a change in the overall flavour of the beer. They may use the same ingredients and brewing process, but they certainly wouldn’t import water from Italy to make Peroni or Mexico to make Corona.

Yeah, I’m amazed at many of the comments here.

COOPERS PALE: The issue with Coopers is that it is a good beer. One of the few good beers that we make on a large scale in Australia. It shouldn’t cost more than VB, New, Carlton because it’s sold on the basis that’s it’s competing with New etc. It’s just that pubs here in Canberra choose to sell it as if it’s from some exotic brewery in Iceland and transported 10,000 miles. BS. In Sydney’s inner west you can still get it at many good pubs for $5. There’s one pub in Goulburn still selling it for this price also.

EUROPEAN BEERS ON TAP: There are not any. Basically a large company like Coca-Cola pays $$$$ to a large business in Europe for the rights to re-label their version they make here in Australia. It’s hard to make a good lager. Easy to make a cheap ‘n nasty flavourless one. Reps like it because they charge the pub more. Pubs like it because they charge customers substantially more. And as for customers, well they’re just dunm and easily parted with their money. The media is silent because they’re morons. Politicians are silent because they all go to wine bars – they don’t drink beer. If they started playing this trick with Margaret River Red made under licence in the Hunter Valley then all hell would break loose.

EUROPEAN BEER IN BOTTLES: Almost exclusively Australian beer now, just relabeled. Try doing this with some famous brand handbag in Westfields and you’ll be arrested. Yet Dan and No Choice flog this FAKE tasteless beer at a premium price and it’s all perfectly ok. (To be fair, on the slab of beer like Peroni, if you turn it upside down, and look at the base, you’ll read “Brewed under Supervision…bla bla blab..Northmead, Sydney..”

Canberra is a f joke is you actually like REAL beer and like GOING out:
– No range of good beers
– Fake beers everywhere. (And not just the fake Euros, but a certain mob in Campbelltown Sydney called Independent Brewers [what a deceptive name] makes beer “from” the Claire Valley in SA, Byron Bay, The Snowy Mountains.)

We have a population of 358,000 people and we have TWO breweries. One of which only sells on it’s own premises [Wig & Pen.] The other, Zeirholz, does and is willing to provide their beer on tap to bars and pubs, but, you know, they all seem to be run by clueless f-wits, or capitalist creeps only concerned about margins per schooner. Na, f schooners, better margins in pints. And easier to justify $9.

Here’s breweries in and around Nelson NZ. Population 60,000. Let’s say, 100,000 if you include the surrounding area. Less than 1/3rd of Canberra, and 14 Breweries/Brew pubs.

http://brewzone.com/2009/06/20/nelson_beermap/

Sad isn’t it?

dtc said :

Although presumably the same recipie and presumably it tastes the same as if it were made overseas.

I’ve been involved in a couple of blind tastings. There was a noticable difference between the two.

dtc said :

Which is, of course, a different issue to how companies can charge as if it were an imported beer when, in fact, it is a locally produced beer.

This is less of an issue when buying bottles or cans, as they are required to be labelled. It seems the same labelling laws don’t apply to draught.

Lets stop taking the piss here or whatever $9 for a pint is ridiculous. I use to winge about paying that in Singapore or $35 sing for a Jug. So when do you find enough is enough is it $15 a pint?

john87_no1 said :

P1, I do agree with you and understand why its so. Though that doesnt mean we should be pleased when prices go up. Just because we can pay more shouldn’t mean we have to.

I 100% agree with you. I think $9 a pint is totally ridiculous.

Duffbowl said :

Comparing the price against Euro brands is fraught with danger, for the reason pointed out by lob. Draught beer does not need to be labelled with a point of origin. You might think you’re drinking Peroni/Nastro Azzuro/Millers/Bulmers/Pilsner Urquell/Grolsch, but you’re drinking something made on the Central Coast by Pacific Beverages, a Coca Cola Amatil/SABMiller company.

Although presumably the same recipie and presumably it tastes the same as if it were made overseas.

Which is, of course, a different issue to how companies can charge as if it were an imported beer when, in fact, it is a locally produced beer.

P1, I do agree with you and understand why its so. Though that doesnt mean we should be pleased when prices go up. Just because we can pay more shouldn’t mean we have to.

johnboy said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

This thread highlights one of the reasons that I home brew.

Fun and cheap, and a good excuse to have friends over.

Not such a great way to meet new people though.

True, but depends on how you meet people.

It’s also hard to take Coopers seriously when their reps are happy to point out to retailers that they aren’t positioning to compete in the boutique market, but are looking to strip drinkers from the big two.

Comparing the price against Euro brands is fraught with danger, for the reason pointed out by lob. Draught beer does not need to be labelled with a point of origin. You might think you’re drinking Peroni/Nastro Azzuro/Millers/Bulmers/Pilsner Urquell/Grolsch, but you’re drinking something made on the Central Coast by Pacific Beverages, a Coca Cola Amatil/SABMiller company.

john87_no1 said :

So what?! Just because we are a wealthy nation doesn’t mean we should pay unreasonable prices for consumables.

We actually pay really cheap rates for most consumables, because they are made by people being paid minimal wage in countries where that is *really* minimal, then purchased with the strong AUD. Beer is different for a couple of reasons. As has been stated, there is a lot of duty payable. It is heavy, therefore shipping costs are a big part of the cost of any beer coming great distance (like from overseas). And people want the best beer they can get, so if the majority of the cost is in duty and shipping, people aren’t going to drink Somali beer that tastes like formaldehyde, simple to save a couple of bucks a case.

All that said, pubs in Canberra charge $9 a pint because that is what the market will support. Pretty sure that of any list of pubs closing down in Canberra this year, not making a profit on each beer sold is unlikely to be the cause of any of the closures.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

This thread highlights one of the reasons that I home brew.

Fun and cheap, and a good excuse to have friends over.

Not such a great way to meet new people though.

This thread highlights one of the reasons that I home brew.

Fun and cheap, and a good excuse to have friends over.

It’s tax people, that’s why you are paying $9 for a pint. Here are some sample distributor prices for cartons of popular brands out of Hong Kong:

Asahi – $23, + duty $12.90 + GST on retail price
Corona – $23 + duty $11.74 + GST on retail price
Becks – $11.50 + duty $12.90 + GST on retail price
Stella – $13 + duty $12.90 + GST on retail price

Let’s say your wholsaler makes 10c a bottle = $2.40/carton
Let’s say your retailer makes 50c a bottle = $12/carton

So the distributor makes about $12 or $23 minus costs of production, the wholesaler makes $2.40 minus costs of transport and storage, the retailer (your bar) makes $12/carton and the government who does absolutely nothing in the transaction makes a whopping $17.20 or $18.20 per carton on a $45-$50 carton of beer.

The government takes the lion’s share of every pint poured. Now add in 30% tax on profit and 24-30% salary and wages taxed and you are looking at about $25-$30 per carton going directly to the government.

Jethro said :

shauno said :

There has been a lot of stuff on the news about Australia being really expensive and I can confirm that having lived and do work worldwide its bloody expensive here for just about anything you can name from real estate to cars to food to beer whatever. Its cheaper to Live anywhere in the UK most of France and the rest of Europe besides a few places and cheaper in the US.

It is more expensive.

But we are also wealthier.

So what?! Just because we are a wealthy nation doesn’t mean we should pay unreasonable prices for consumables. It’s like people saying “well petrol is $1.55L, but we shouldn’t complain because we still have some of the lowest fuel prices in the world”. What type of thinking is that?! We should be aiming to have the lowest prices on everything.

I say – Mo money mo problems.

dtc said :

[
True. However, 2 years ago your £3.15 beer was equivalent to AUD10. Things are expensive in Australia relative to other countries because of the exchange rate. .

Two years ago the $1 Au was at 40p, and the pint was at £2.40.

Ben_Dover said :

shauno said :

Having Lived in London recently yes $9 in for a pint in Canberra is over the top.

Me too. The average price of a pint in the Uk is between £2.87 and £3.15, or $4.23 to $4.67.

Oh and that’s for proper beer, not frozen urine.

True. However, 2 years ago your £3.15 beer was equivalent to AUD10. Things are expensive in Australia relative to other countries because of the exchange rate. Conversely, of course, it makes things overseas much cheaper for us – imagine how far the AUD takes you in most of Asia (just try spending more than AUD10 on a meal in India). Give us another 3 years (or whatever) and Europe will again be expensive and the prices we pay for electronics will shoot up. However, relatively speaking, our beer will be cheaper.

Its actually very easy to get a liquor licence in Canberra – there are no limits unlike NSW (or the way NSW used to be). Its harder to get the premises to comply with the regulations, but thats OH&S stuff, not any restriction imposed to protect current licence holders.

Endless loop of repetitive non-music. Too cheap to pay copyright fees. Boring.

I visited Duxton over the weekend and I was disappointed. The atmosphere was rather forced, the beers on tap were uninteresting, the wine selection seems to be what All Bar had (and the RTDs/bottled beers, maybe they bought the leftover stock?) but lacked options – I’d expect the wines to change though. I didn’t try the food, but from what I saw I wasn’t missing out on much. The back room was a bit of a joke. I can’t blame them for trying to add some unique character to the place, but it was way over the top. Suited more to a ‘trendy’ area – Dickson, Civic, Kingston or Manuka, but definitely not a suburban pub feel which is what O’Connor shops is crying out for.

Living in the area, I can’t see myself heading to Duxton for a casual drink like I used to at All Bar Nun, I guess I’ll have to make the trek to Edgars for a decent beer in a good atmosphere.

$9 for a beer?

Er no. Fail.

One strategy could be to not develop such a delicate palate that the only beer one could possibly touch to the lips is the most expensive beer on tap.

milkman said :

Why is beer so expensive in this town? Because people will pay the prices asked. Simple.

Welcome to being wealthy.

A lot of us though simply don’t go out as much. There’s a HUGE gap in the market for a bar selling good beer at $5 a schooner plus good food [ie not frozen supplies cooked in fat.]

And don’t you feel like you’re being scammed every time you hand over $9 for a schooner of something that costs the bar no or little more to buy than Carlton? Likewise with fake Euro beers made here in Australia. No “brewed under licence” notice for these fake beers on tap. Walk into the Uni Pub and you’ll see what is basically Carlton under the name Peroni [made now in Australia] or Kronenberg 1666 [yip, also now made in Australia] being sold for well over $7 whilst elsewhere in the bar plumbers are drinking Carlton for under $5. Walk into the bar at Ainslie and you’d be fooled into believing they have a (reasonably) local microbrew on tap from the Snowy Mountains. They don’t. It’s made cheaply in Campbelltown Sydney.

If you enjoy being lied to, enjoy having f all choice – where are the nice IPAs, American Pales, a nice wheat beer??? Enjoy having the bar con you into buying by the pint – by making it 20% or more cheaper than the equivalent schooner volume. Gee, I would have thought given most of us drive everywhere, a schooner was a much wiser/responsible size for the ownere to “push”

Still, I hope paying $9 a pint makes you feel superior or something.

Why is beer so expensive in this town? Because people will pay the prices asked. Simple.

Welcome to being wealthy.

Endrey said :

Thirdly as a broad generalisation I find the most price sensitive demographic who are most likely to complain about price are those who work in the government, which possibly those of you complaining about $9 pints do.

Maybe the pen pushers creating new policy need to think a little more about about how it affects the end cost of goods to the consumer.

It might surprise you to find that the vast majority of people who work in for the government, don’t in fact have anything to do with policies that affect the end cost of anything to the consumer. Which ultimately makes them exactly the same as any other customer who thinks they’re paying too much, with exactly the same ability to do anything about it aside from complaining.

taninaus said :

Had a short drink there yesterday – $7 for a midori and lemonade which is OK but not great but it was a very weak pour. The other oddity is in the ladies loos whoever installed the hand dryer (one of those fabulous dyson ones) must have been very tall as it was almost impossible for me to comfortably slide my hands into the top to use it (yeah, I am not tall)

Midori and lemonade, hey? That’s a pretty hardcore tipple. 🙂

The claim that Coopers is much more expensive than New/Carlton/VB et al is a lie. It’s about the same price for pubs and bars to buy wholesale. In fact the pub at Jerrabomberra Hotel was selling Coopers for $4.50 a schooner back in 2009. The Soul Bar in Woden also had Coopers on tap for $5.00 back then. Unfortunately neither has Coopers on tap now. Soul Bar had Zeirholz briefly on tap also, and then, took it off. Soul Bar now flogs a lot of fake Euro beers at inflated prices, and Jerrabomberra has gone back to just “working class water” [Carlton etc.]

This is what Canberra mostly has in the way of bars now:

– Lots of Fake Euros at inflated prices (+ a fake beer pretending it’s from the Snowy Mountains (actually made in Campbelltown.) This beer is rubbish, no better than watery New/Carlton but sold at a premium price.

– Coopers mostly not on tap, despite it being the last large Australian brewery. Where it is on tap it’s increasingly around $6 or, , $7-something a schooner at that new place where the Nun once was. In bottles, at places like Ainslie it’s $6.50.

– VB, New, Carlton for “real blokes” still not more than $5 anywhere.

Yeah, “real blokes” (plumbers, builders, etc) get their beer at a reasonable price. They never pay over $5.00. Those of us who don’t like this mass produced, high carbon footprint, watery, chemical after-taste, poor excuse for beer have to put up with being ripped off. God I miss Sydney’s inner west. Give me the Courthouse or St Peters pub, etc etc, over the pathetic WATERing HOLEs in this sad town any day.

The pricing is the same as everything else here, they’ll charge what the market will bear. A bit like house prices. We all know the prices are too high but they’re average for the inner suburbs. Try charging $9 a pint in Tuggeranong or Holt and you’d have an empty bar.

Hell, I think $9 is a good price, means you aren’t going there to get drunk, your going there to talk, have a bite to eat then move on somewhere else.

Debacle has been doing it for years and is in my mind one of the most successful bars in town.

Thirdly as a broad generalisation I find the most price sensitive demographic who are most likely to complain about price are those who work in the government, which possibly those of you complaining about $9 pints do.

Oh do you mean your customers that make your business viable in canberra?

I had a coffee there this morning which was not bad at all and a normal price. The buzzer system seems bizarre on Sunday morning though, at least when it’s not crowded. Breakfasts looked quite good too but I couldn’t face one myself, so can’t add anything on the ‘gastronomy’.

P.S. dpm, could you please let me have some of what keeps you so cheerful?

LarryBlaze said :

My hat goes off to the guys who have re developed this place, taking a very tired old space and turning something that looks this good out in 3 weeks is amazing!

Want to know why your Coopers costs $9 a pint?

Firstly the IR situation with pay rates is so out of control, the 18yo Kid who was collecting glasses from your table on a Saturday was getting paid $23.94 PH, the person who poured your drink over $25

did I mention after 12am on a Saturday is Sunday, oh and guess what? you have to pay sunday rates….. that is going to get tacked on to the end of your pint cost as well.

Coopers is one of the more expensive beers to purchase wholesale, if you want to to pay your extremely high wages and fixed expenses at the end of the week you need to be operating at a minimum of 25% – 30% product cost depending on your business structure, coopers costs in the vacinity of $2.80 to pour a pint so this is about right in terms of margin.

Secondly there is so much f$%#king around and red tape involved in opening a pub, just to get a change of liquor license approved they would have had to totally redevelop their back of house, install more sinks to satisfy the health department, submit a Risk Assessment Management Plan to Office of Regulatory Services to satisfy the new requirements under the Liquor ACT 2010 etc. All of which costs money and none of which means s$%#it when you are a competent operator.

Thirdly as a broad generalisation I find the most price sensitive demographic who are most likely to complain about price are those who work in the government, which possibly those of you complaining about $9 pints do.

Maybe the pen pushers creating new policy need to think a little more about about how it affects the end cost of goods to the consumer.

So, you’re complaing about pesky staff, health regulations, beer wholesale costs and stingy patrons (who think $9 is too much) for all getting in the way of owner profits? I think you’ve blamed everyone with that spray! Hahahaha! Anyway, I imagine people highlighting the $9 price were simply comparing it to lower prices at other places in town (for the same beer), that’s all. Basically, how come it’s cheaper at other places, if they all pay the same wholesale, work under same regulations and wage rules etc? Sounds like it comes down to the mgt of this place recouping costs of their fitout, or wanting a ‘hip’ factor?!
P.S I imagine in this town that ‘stingy’ pubes are still the demographic who buys most of the beer at these places, so while they might be complaining about handing over their cash, if they didn’t turn up at all you’d lose a large chunk of revenue! Best not bar them fully from the pub at this stage! Hahahaha! Disclaimer: I’m not a pube. 🙂

But what we all want to know is: is it influential?

LarryBlaze said :

Want to know why your Coopers costs $9 a pint?

Firstly the IR situation with pay rates is so out of control, the 18yo Kid who was collecting glasses from your table on a Saturday was getting paid $23.94 PH, the person who poured your drink over $25

🙂 Fantastic! I assume you’ve contacted them and offered your services for half the normal rate with no weekend or holiday penalties! Or are you following the US model and offering to work free for the tips?

farnarkler said :

Shauno as for cheap beer in the UK…..Wetherspoons!!! Jeez if they came here they’d clean up in a month. Tim Marti,n being a Kiwi, would love that.

Weatherspoons are awesome!!!

http://www.jdwetherspoon.co.uk/

Wetherspoon cuts price of a pint to under £1

Pub owner JD Wetherspoon has cut the price of a pint of beer to less than £1 and lowered the cost of other drinks and meals to attract customers as the pub industry faces one of its toughest years.

Wetherspoon has cut the price of five varieties of beer, wine and spirits, and will sell pints of Greene King IPA and bottles of San Miguel for 99p. The pub chain, which is famous for its cheap drinks and `no music’ policy, and has also cut the price of five meals to £2.99. The reductions will run indefinitely, Wetherspoon said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/4074537/Wetherspoon-cuts-price-of-a-pint-to-under-1.html

taninaus said :

Had a short drink there yesterday – $7 for a midori and lemonade which is OK but not great but it was a very weak pour. The other oddity is in the ladies loos whoever installed the hand dryer (one of those fabulous dyson ones) must have been very tall as it was almost impossible for me to comfortably slide my hands into the top to use it (yeah, I am not tall)

haha are we talking midget height of just short

LarryBlaze said :

Ben_Dover said :

shauno said :

Having Lived in London recently yes $9 in for a pint in Canberra is over the top.

Me too. The average price of a pint in the Uk is between £2.87 and £3.15, or $4.23 to $4.67.

Oh and that’s for proper beer, not frozen urine.

And beer costs $1 a pint in Thailand so by comparison the cost of a pint in the UK is ridiculous.

Different country, different tax structure, different regulations and labour laws.

Thats the reason high taxes and massive wages and bureaucracy. I mean $24 an hour for serving drinks is a bit much surely?

Ben_Dover said :

shauno said :

Having Lived in London recently yes $9 in for a pint in Canberra is over the top.

Me too. The average price of a pint in the Uk is between £2.87 and £3.15, or $4.23 to $4.67.

Oh and that’s for proper beer, not frozen urine.

And beer costs $1 a pint in Thailand so by comparison the cost of a pint in the UK is ridiculous.

Different country, different tax structure, different regulations and labour laws.

LarryBlaze said :

My hat goes off to the guys who have re developed this place, taking a very tired old space and turning something that looks this good out in 3 weeks is amazing!

Want to know why your Coopers costs $9 a pint?

Firstly the IR situation with pay rates is so out of control, the 18yo Kid who was collecting glasses from your table on a Saturday was getting paid $23.94 PH, the person who poured your drink over $25

did I mention after 12am on a Saturday is Sunday, oh and guess what? you have to pay sunday rates….. that is going to get tacked on to the end of your pint cost as well.

Coopers is one of the more expensive beers to purchase wholesale, if you want to to pay your extremely high wages and fixed expenses at the end of the week you need to be operating at a minimum of 25% – 30% product cost depending on your business structure, coopers costs in the vacinity of $2.80 to pour a pint so this is about right in terms of margin.

Secondly there is so much f$%#king around and red tape involved in opening a pub, just to get a change of liquor license approved they would have had to totally redevelop their back of house, install more sinks to satisfy the health department, submit a Risk Assessment Management Plan to Office of Regulatory Services to satisfy the new requirements under the Liquor ACT 2010 etc. All of which costs money and none of which means s$%#it when you are a competent operator.

Thirdly as a broad generalisation I find the most price sensitive demographic who are most likely to complain about price are those who work in the government, which possibly those of you complaining about $9 pints do.

Maybe the pen pushers creating new policy need to think a little more about about how it affects the end cost of goods to the consumer.

Everything you say would be right if the intention of opening a pub was to service the community, but this is no sports club or hospital,. This is a license to print money into the pocket of whoever can set it up and I have no sympathy if the health department demands the kind of things that reduce the scope for squeezing an extra dollar while increasing the risk of harming patrons.

I’m happy to vote with my feet and watch sport and meet friends at home with better beer at a third of the price.

More rich c**ts gouging everyone by offering nothing better than fox sports and overpriced mince meat, while nobody seems to be able to open a proper dedicated music venue.

The less your business model offers Canberrans, the more likely it is to get up.

LarryBlaze said :

My hat goes off to the guys who have re developed this place, taking a very tired old space and turning something that looks this good out in 3 weeks is amazing!

Want to know why your Coopers costs $9 a pint?

Firstly the IR situation with pay rates is so out of control, the 18yo Kid who was collecting glasses from your table on a Saturday was getting paid $23.94 PH, the person who poured your drink over $25

did I mention after 12am on a Saturday is Sunday, oh and guess what? you have to pay sunday rates….. that is going to get tacked on to the end of your pint cost as well.

Coopers is one of the more expensive beers to purchase wholesale, if you want to to pay your extremely high wages and fixed expenses at the end of the week you need to be operating at a minimum of 25% – 30% product cost depending on your business structure, coopers costs in the vacinity of $2.80 to pour a pint so this is about right in terms of margin.

Secondly there is so much f$%#king around and red tape involved in opening a pub, just to get a change of liquor license approved they would have had to totally redevelop their back of house, install more sinks to satisfy the health department, submit a Risk Assessment Management Plan to Office of Regulatory Services to satisfy the new requirements under the Liquor ACT 2010 etc. All of which costs money and none of which means s$%#it when you are a competent operator.

Thirdly as a broad generalisation I find the most price sensitive demographic who are most likely to complain about price are those who work in the government, which possibly those of you complaining about $9 pints do.

Maybe the pen pushers creating new policy need to think a little more about about how it affects the end cost of goods to the consumer.

I don’t work in the public service and I agree with you the main issues with costs in Australia are with government over regulation and taxes.

I wonder if the place has any room for a microbrewery?

Shauno as for cheap beer in the UK…..Wetherspoons!!! Jeez if they came here they’d clean up in a month. Tim Marti,n being a Kiwi, would love that.

shauno said :

Having Lived in London recently yes $9 in for a pint in Canberra is over the top.

Me too. The average price of a pint in the Uk is between £2.87 and £3.15, or $4.23 to $4.67.

Oh and that’s for proper beer, not frozen urine.

My hat goes off to the guys who have re developed this place, taking a very tired old space and turning something that looks this good out in 3 weeks is amazing!

Want to know why your Coopers costs $9 a pint?

Firstly the IR situation with pay rates is so out of control, the 18yo Kid who was collecting glasses from your table on a Saturday was getting paid $23.94 PH, the person who poured your drink over $25 did I mention after 12am on a Saturday is Sunday, oh and guess what? you have to pay sunday rates….. that is going to get tacked on to the end of your pint cost as well.

Coopers is one of the more expensive beers to purchase wholesale, if you want to to pay your extremely high wages and fixed expenses at the end of the week you need to be operating at a minimum of 25% – 30% product cost depending on your business structure, coopers costs in the vacinity of $2.80 to pour a pint so this is about right in terms of margin.

Secondly there is so much f$%#king around and red tape involved in opening a pub, just to get a change of liquor license approved they would have had to totally redevelop their back of house, install more sinks to satisfy the health department, submit a Risk Assessment Management Plan to Office of Regulatory Services to satisfy the new requirements under the Liquor ACT 2010 etc. All of which costs money and none of which means s$%#it when you are a competent operator.

Thirdly as a broad generalisation I find the most price sensitive demographic who are most likely to complain about price are those who work in the government, which possibly those of you complaining about $9 pints do.

Maybe the pen pushers creating new policy need to think a little more about about how it affects the end cost of goods to the consumer.

sirocco said :

$9 a pint here
$8.80 a pint at the Wig

But you’re getting good beer at the latter.

Had a short drink there yesterday – $7 for a midori and lemonade which is OK but not great but it was a very weak pour. The other oddity is in the ladies loos whoever installed the hand dryer (one of those fabulous dyson ones) must have been very tall as it was almost impossible for me to comfortably slide my hands into the top to use it (yeah, I am not tall)

Canberra need more small bars. The ACT Government needs to make it easier for people to open small bars. I really should be no different to opening a cafe. All the problems with alcohol consumption are from the larger establishments that operate into the wee small hours encouraging young people to get pissed/off their face. Is it too much to ask that in a city the size of Canberra there isn’t
– a nice relaxing place you can go and Coopers is $5 a schooner
– fake European beers are not sold. – The ACT Government really should do something about this FRAUD. Peroni Italy my ass. Peroni Northmead Sydney made by Coca-Cola.
– The owner actively tries to get locally made beer on tap. [Not easy when we have f all breweries]
– Good beers from the US [where microbrewing is now huge] are actively sought out. Why isn’t there a single bar in Canberra serving Sierra Nevada’s range of beer when Dan Murf is now stocking these. I’m sure they could buy slabs at a discount and make a healthy profit selling 330ml bottles for around $6.50.

And btw in Sydney’s inner west you can still get Coopers for $5 at many pubs, and a lot even sell Coopers by the Jug. Canberra establishments are all run by capitalist money hungry a holes.

$9 a pint here
$8.80 a pint at the Wig
$6.50 a schooner (of Little Creatures/White Rabbit/Coopers = $8.7 pint) at The Durham Castle in Kingston

These are kinda normal prices – maybe not cool relative to the UK where you can get a pint in a London pub for around £3.50 but normal for Canberra (or even equivalent regions of Sydney).

I’ve just come form the Belgian Beer Cafe and they are charging $80 for one of their beers. That said, you don’t go to that establishment for cheap drinks.

farnarkler said :

Shauno see if you can find a cheap place to live between Oxford St and Piccadilly in London. As for cars, they’re cheaper in Europe because just about everything not vital to the operaition of the vehicle is an option. You can double the price of some German cars in the UK with all the available options. As for $9 a pint, the Wig and Pen will charge you that, however, their beer is much better!!

No mate take Porsche for example the options list in Australia is similar you can option up a 911 way past $50K if you want. The prices in Australia are stupidly expensive. I had a flat in South Kensington so you cant say that isnt a cheap place in London but It its not far off my place in Turner and shopping at Tescos was cheaper and my local pubs where cheaper.

Shauno see if you can find a cheap place to live between Oxford St and Piccadilly in London. As for cars, they’re cheaper in Europe because just about everything not vital to the operaition of the vehicle is an option. You can double the price of some German cars in the UK with all the available options. As for $9 a pint, the Wig and Pen will charge you that, however, their beer is much better!!

I never went back to the haha bar after being charged 13 bucks for a cider.

shauno said :

There has been a lot of stuff on the news about Australia being really expensive and I can confirm that having lived and do work worldwide its bloody expensive here for just about anything you can name from real estate to cars to food to beer whatever. Its cheaper to Live anywhere in the UK most of France and the rest of Europe besides a few places and cheaper in the US.

It is more expensive.

But we are also wealthier.

There has been a lot of stuff on the news about Australia being really expensive and I can confirm that having lived and do work worldwide its bloody expensive here for just about anything you can name from real estate to cars to food to beer whatever. Its cheaper to Live anywhere in the UK most of France and the rest of Europe besides a few places and cheaper in the US.

Having Lived in London recently yes $9 in for a pint in Canberra is over the top.

i was at the civic pub this week and they charged me $8.40 for a pint of coopers. WTF?!

$9?! I was charged $10 a pint of Cooper Pale! Saturday 25 February 2012, 2pm ish.

Ridiculous! They’ve lost my patronage.

$9 for a pint of Coopers Pale? Bugger. That.