Fast train's Canberra snub a win for Yass, Goulburn

My now deceased father-in-law worked on one of the earlier VFT proposals and I have a clear memory that it went through/was very, very close to Canberra, so it is practical. There are all sorts of reasons why Canberra is a must, some of them attractive to politicians, some even attractive to the developers, some attractive because of the frequent trips by Canberra public servants to Sydney and Melbourne, some relate to the international flights into Canberra allowing tourists to move quickly and conveniently on to Melbourne and Sydney. You should even consider whether the prime purpose is passenger related as my memory is that freight transport was more likely to be the main purpose with passenger movement an ancillary issue.

You should ignore the possible benefits of spur lines to Goulburn and Yass because it would be more convenient to catch a plane if time is of the essence when you want to go to Melbourne or Sydney. And as for upgrading the Barton Highway, not really an issue as the volume of increased traffic is likely to be light. For satellite cities associated with Yass you need fast and frequent transport options to Canberra (and just upgrading the Barton Highway won’t meet this need). As for when an upgrade to the Barton Highway is likely to occur, you should be aware that easements along the existing route in the Murrumbateman area were created/existed in the 1970s and it is now 35-40 years later with a different route being chosen.

In terms of this particular proposal the Federal Government should refuse, even hinder, any facilitation/legislation unless it goes through Canberra.

Just as you’re about to go ‘octo’,they’ll re-design the thing and bring it through ‘the city of wait-a-while’ in time for your resurrection.

The catch is that a Sydney To Canberra line could also extend up the north coast.
It would be much quicker to build Sydney to Canberra and then extend that line to Melbourne.
At least with a Canberra route you pretty much knock out air travel and if built in the next 5 years would solve many issues around Sydney airport.

Sydney’s 2nd airport doesn’t instantly solve problems they need a fast way to get people between the city and the new airport, with already shoddy traffic, may as well put in fast rail and move the airport out to Canberra to manage. That way Sydney spreads out across the south boarder.

I don’t see a Melbourne line as profitable as a Canberra Sydney line.
A bullet train between Sydney airports would never happen.

Maya123 said :

The only way a Canberra leg would work is if the route went closer to the coast, which changes things dramatically.

OP ever looked at the geography to Canberra’s south and west? Those hills don’t make for a good (cost effective) railway alignment.

It may be more cost-effective to connect to light rail at the airport rather than travelling under Mount Ainslie.

Japan’s topography is much more of a challenge than ours, yet their Mag-Lev will be traveling underground for most of its route. If they can do it, why can’t we? With the “Too hard” attitude of today, we’d never had got the Snowy Mountains scheme finished.

Didn’t say it wasn’t possible, though years ago would have been difficult. Fast trains and tunnels need very very large bore tunnels and vent stacks to move all the air in front of a train and to fill behind as it passed.

The bigger issue of going through or under a mountain is the cost. I have no doubt in Japan there will be significantly more trains and users of the line you mention to pay for it all.

Building an expensive tunnel under the Brindies just so Canberra can be on the main line is crazy especially when the better route is to avoid and go to the north.

The important issue is will Canberra get a service, the answer to which is yes as a spur.

Charlotte, I share your frustration, but even if this project does happen in the manner outlined, I think that there could be silver linings to it.

It has been suggested in Japan that suggests many of the regional cities connected to Tokyo by the shinkansen have actually lost their dynamism (and much of their population) to the capital. Essentially, it changed relatively healthy regional cities that used to be 4-6 hours worth train travel away and into the sub-2 hour commuting zone. Why? Because suddenly living closer to Tokyo became viable for many people (especially the young), there was no contest in terms of job and lifestyle opportunities, and it was possible to visit one’s home town on the weekend in the other direction.

I could see a similar trend happening here. Who would bother living in Yass or further out if it was now possible to live in the Southern Highlands, commute for 20 minutes, and enjoy Sydney daily? We only have to look at the garbage developers build across Australia to know how ugly and poorly planned any new cities would be.

If Canberra manages to stay out of the spiderweb, we may find (paradoxically) that our economy strengthens because those who come here want to be here. We could have a city based on smart growth principles, rather than the “build it up, flog it off to suckers” mentality that exists here now.

We already have a great city, and we’re getting direct overseas flights soon. I enjoy visiting Sydney, but would not wish to live there. So I don’t see any reason for us to either panic about the economics of such a change, or to follow other areas blindly. We are smart enough to make our own luck, and to decide our own future.

The only way a Canberra leg would work is if the route went closer to the coast, which changes things dramatically.

OP ever looked at the geography to Canberra’s south and west? Those hills don’t make for a good (cost effective) railway alignment.

It may be more cost-effective to connect to light rail at the airport rather than travelling under Mount Ainslie.

Japan’s topography is much more of a challenge than ours, yet their Mag-Lev will be traveling underground for most of its route. If they can do it, why can’t we? With the “Too hard” attitude of today, we’d never had got the Snowy Mountains scheme finished.

“It may be more cost-effective to connect to light rail at the airport rather than travelling under Mount Ainslie. “

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Well who woulda thunk! Cheaper to lay tracks to the airport than tunnel under Mt Ainslie! When did this “tunnel under Mt Ainslie” supposedly enter the equation?

I seem to remember a few years back there was a proposal the V F train would steam along through Gippsland, throw a lefty up to Delegate, then onto Canberra and parts beyond. I remember a Delegate real estate ad spruiking ‘buy now as the train is a comin”.

I think this latest proposal could be called another pie in the sky.

Out of interest I looked up ‘pie in the sky’ just to see where it came from. and found this one interesting
answer;

Pie In The Sky

Meaning
“A promise of heaven, while continuing to suffer in this life.”

Sort of sums up a lot about this place I’d be thinkin.

OP ever looked at the geography to Canberra’s south and west? Those hills don’t make for a good (cost effective) railway alignment. The alternative is to come in from Sydney then back out to Melbourne, a bit like driving to Melbourne from Sydney via the federal and Barton highways. Again not sensible as a through route.

From what I recall all proposals thus far for a Sydney to Melbourne line have had Canberra as a spur rather than being on the through line for these very practical reasons.

madelini said :

Garfield said :

You would think that one of the main reasons they aren’t coming direct to Canberra is that there is no land for them to ‘capture’ as all Territory land is leasehold.

Good point – that, plus the fact that land here is already very expensive, so there’s more prospect of profits in less desirable and/or yet to be developed locations. Anyway, decentralisation does not have a happy history in Australia, and this plan is highly unlikely to change that.

Little to do with it. It would cost more and you’d have to go though state forests to get past Canberra.
if a train stops in Canberra then where does it leave?

If it were possible why would anyone pay for it? ACT would have to pony up the cost and convince everyone in NSW to trek though their forests. With a green running the show it isn’t going to happen.

The only way a Canberra leg would work is if the route went closer to the coast, which changes things dramatically. Even then it’ll likely end up connecting past Queanbeyan and station in Tuggeranong or there abouts.