Flu cases increase 'sharply' in the ACT but government not yet considering free flu vax for general population

It’s just the flu bro… no seriously it is just the flu… Shouldn’t you be fretting over monkey pox instead? Heard it can cause “long monkey”!

That’s kinda my point. The reason the flu is “just the flu” is because we didn’t try to control it. Government restrictions have made it (and everything else) worse.

TheSilver, and why should we try to control it? That’s my point, we’ve never done so preCOVID and no reason that should change now. We need to get one with life.

Completely agree. That’s what I’m saying. We never should have closed the borders or had lockdowns. At best they delayed the inevitable, but it has caused this disaster, and the coming recession. The next five years are going to be awful and entirely caused by government short term thinking.

The Silver, and the reason we didn’t have tens of thousands of deaths over the last couple of years is because the government controls put in place to reduce the spread of COVID. We are now nearing those high levels of herd immunity from it which will continue to grow. Minis of course the huge death count that would otherwise have occurred.

A worse than usual flu season was always expected, which is why they are putting in steps to lessen its impacts.

Isn’t this exactly what you want? To assess the risk of different diseases and put in place proportionate controls?

Chewy, Melbourne was in lockdown for over 270 days and what did that achieve. Right now there are still deaths, COVID cases, people getting reinfected again and again and again. The only difference is we have lost a whole year of productivity, children lost out on their education and millions suffered the mental health consequences of protracted lockdowns. Government intervention is never helpful!

What the government did was delayed the inevitable at the massive cost of the coming recession, which will make the 1970s look like a party.

Sam Oak,
I actually agree that on the fringes, some of the government controls were too heavy handed.

But on the whole, all of them got it generally right. Despite the claims, we haven’t simply delayed the inevitable, we have avoided the worst impacts which have been seen elsewhere in the world.

You don’t have to take my word for it, the ABS has just published year-to-date all cause mortality figures, not including 2020.

https://www.abs.gov.au/articles/measuring-australias-excess-mortality-during-covid-19-pandemic-doctor-certified-deaths

A better link:
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/causes-death/provisional-mortality-statistics/jan-feb-2022

All cause mortality is up 20% above the baseline, not including 2020. New Zealand has the same thing.

@chewy but were the waves in other countries even all that bad? In India it was basically one month where mortality increased and it was back to normal. People seem to argue that the ultimate goal is to save the most number of lives and that trumps the suffering of others. Never mind that the extra amount that would have died with no lockdown are likely just the old and with severe medical conditions. Possibly we’ve extended their lives by another 3 years at the expense of others? If that’s the case we should outright ban euthanasia if it’s so vital we keep people living for as long as possible.

The Silver,
Of cause mortality rates are up, it’s completely expected as I said previously. Covid is still circulating as well with far lower mortality rates. But the counterfactual is that more people would have died without the actions taken.

I agree with you that there will be longer term effects but the levels of death overall are far lower than they would have been otherwise. This article is about the flu, for which we have a readily available vaccine, it’s not comparable.

Sam Oak, there’s some countries where good data is available, India isn’t one I’d try to use for anything.

Even then, their actual reported deaths are over 500k, and the short period you mention only accounts for a fraction of that total death count. It’s not “normal” in any sense of the word.

And once again, I agree with you that in places there could have been a better balance struck, but on the whole we’ve done well.

TheSilver, you have provided a proper reference showing excess deaths from COVID-19. Firstly, congratulations on demonstrating to doubters that COVID-19 is not “just the flu”, that excess deaths continue at a rate about three times greater than the road toll, the latter being something over which people normally show concern, and 5x-10x that of the flu over the prior decade.
Secondly, thank you for supporting the efficacy of vaccination and other health measures. Prior to end May 2021, when we had negligible vaccination and awaited more serious lockdowns, the fatality rate stood at 3%. A year later, after near complete vaccination and more caution by many people, the fatality rate stands at 0.12%. Good, eh?
You can find source data here: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-19-cumulative-confirmed-cases-vs-confirmed-deaths?time=2021-05-30&country=~AUS

So, a delay of the inevitable, as I said, and once you include the deaths and harm from the coming recession, it’ll be government has done more harm than good.

Sam Oak – you have completely missed the point of the lock-down – yes to curb the spread (and inevitable), but more importantly, to SMOOTH the curve targeted at our health systems which would have been overwhelmed. Your view is a myopic.

It failed even on those grounds. The ACT government couldn’t keep the virus out of aged care facilities, despite the average age of death from this virus being higher than the average life expectancy.

TheSilver, your position appears to be that there was some delay in deaths which would have occurred anyway, no total change, no benefit.
This in reply to my referenced post showing a reduction from expected to actual deaths by a factor of 25 times, the efficacy of vaccination and social measures. Your comment is quite daft.