21 October 2010

Google gone undercover?

| kehpaso
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car sensor

I spotted this interesting looking car in Barton just the other day. Any ideas what it could be used for?

sensor close up mystery sensor

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A few years ago the Motor Traffic people came around our work carpark and found an unroadworthy, unregistered car, put a sticker on the windscreen and took away the cars number plates. A few days later the car was back with number plates (taken from another car perhaps). Does this new system allow for these vehicles to be towed away, impounded, sold or scapped. Sending out a nasty letter to the last known registered owner would not worry those who are already breaking the law.

Me no fry said :

Here’s a question, can RAPID distinguish between identical numberplates issued in different states? I recall a few years back, some ACT drivers getting speeding fines from NSW as the RTA had issued some Y series plates that matched existing ACT plates.

Does it also recognise the difference between different sorts of vehicles? Because I have a friend with the same plates on his car and motorbike.

@ Me no fry: Yes.

Skidbladnir said :

Assistant Commissioner Quaedvlieg: It will notify to the police officers at that site whether that vehicle is unregistered, whether it is uninsured, whether the person driving is an unlicensed driver, and whether the person driving is a person who is of interest or is wanted on a warrant—and that person and that vehicle will then be intercepted.

Call me pedantic, but I think Quaddie meant to say “the registered owner” (or possibly even “the last known registered owner”) and not “the person driving”, given that the car needs to be stopped to establish the exact connection between driver and ownership of driven vehicle.

Not, I hasten to add, that I have any problems with the concept of identifying unregistered/uninsured vehicles and removing them from the roads.

Here’s a question, can RAPID distinguish between identical numberplates issued in different states? I recall a few years back, some ACT drivers getting speeding fines from NSW as the RTA had issued some Y series plates that matched existing ACT plates.

Chaz said :

more revenue raising.
things like this do not combat the problem of bad driving.

Rather than comment on the stupidity of your post, I’ll point you to Johnboy’s post at #31.

Deano said :

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

That gives us a basic model of revenue of around $2,000 per hour over a seven-hour day over 240 days per year

Ahhahahaaaha.

No, I think the correct response is:

Cah-ching!

However if you’re unlicensed, unregistered, uninsured, or have an outstanding warrant you’ll be safe driving after business hours, and all day on weekends and public holidays.

It’s great police don’t work after business hours, or weekends, or public holidays. You can get away with everything.

colourful sydney racing identity9:37 am 22 Oct 10

Chaz said :

more revenue raising.
things like this do not combat the problem of bad driving.

It may not combat bad driving but if it catches people driving unregistered cars surely that is a good thing?

*puts record on*

Unregistered vehicles are massively represented in crashed.

Because cockheads who can’t even manage to register their car are the sort of cockheads who run into other people.

Identifying them and swiftly removing them from the road in the short term makes us safer.

In the long term more of them will register their vehicles but still be cockheads. That’s a problem for tomorrow, although at least they’ll be insured.

facet said :

Does this system catch interstate registration for example, all those bad people from Queanbeyan?

I believe that “flagged” number plates are shared between states. Might have read that on here, actually.

I wonder what the laws are concerning setting something like this up on your own car?

Taking photos on the public street part is perfectly legal. But does that change if you start using a computer to read the plate numbers, then store them in a database against geo-location and time?

‘Cause I imagine that some of the larger retail chains could be interested in the habits of their customers. If every coles or woolworths had these at the entrances to their car parks they could start to track you in much more detail. Link that with their existing data mining loyalty card program…

Does this system catch interstate registration for example, all those bad people from Queanbeyan?

MJay said :

I didn’t know the police force knocked off at 5.

They have to take the hire car back.

Some cops get to cruise the highways & byways of Capital City on custom Harleys, while others get to drive Lancers.

Deano said :

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

That gives us a basic model of revenue of around $2,000 per hour over a seven-hour day over 240 days per year

Ahhahahaaaha.

No, I think the correct response is:

Cah-ching!

However if you’re unlicensed, unregistered, uninsured, or have an outstanding warrant you’ll be safe driving after business hours, and all day on weekends and public holidays.

I didn’t know the police force knocked off at 5.

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

That gives us a basic model of revenue of around $2,000 per hour over a seven-hour day over 240 days per year

Ahhahahaaaha.

No, I think the correct response is:

Cah-ching!

However if you’re unlicensed, unregistered, uninsured, or have an outstanding warrant you’ll be safe driving after business hours, and all day on weekends and public holidays.

moneypenny2612 said :

How can scanning the number plate reveal whether the person driving is an unlicensed driver, and whether the person driving is a person who is of interest or is wanted on a warrant?

Colour me skeptical…

Create a temporary table of cars spotted by RAPID with timestamp and geolocation attributes (‘Input’), then run a series of processes against your input table.
Five or six TNF RDBMS tables and a set of inner or left outer joins depending on the data requirements of the operational needs, maybe?

Anything that returns a positive for those processes gets some form of action, ranging from ‘pass on to Traffic Operations for later administrative followup’ up to ‘Alert nearby patrol cars immediately’.

It won’t be a case of total information awareness of actual drivers, but you certainly have enough data to at least pursue further enquiries.

For more serious contact events the alert wouldn’t be evidence on their own (stolen cars will be ‘clean’ cars), but it makes an immediate step up for patrolling officers from not knowing anything about a nearby vehicle.
This is why police want it.

For the simpler traffic infringements, they send out paperwork to registered owners informing them that they are responsible for cars not reported stolen, and they have been assumed to be driving at the time and location specified (‘Input’).
Provide them with options of either accepting liability, paying the fine themselves, or attributing the act of illegal driving onto someone else via a Stat Dec.
This is why politicians give approval to ‘accessing the $2000/hr revenue stream’, bureaucracy is what they are good at.

The most difficult element of the whole system was likely turning an in-the-field contact event into an accurate data input in time to be useful to policing operations.

moneypenny2612 said :

Skidbladnir said :


Assistant Commissioner Quaedvlieg: Sure. They are a dedicated, full-time team. They will be operating vehicles which are equipped with the RAPID technology. The RAPID technology is an electronic detection system. It works on digital video. It scans the number plates of vehicles as they drive past the point of the vehicle. It will notify to the police officers at that site whether that vehicle is unregistered, whether it is uninsured, whether the person driving is an unlicensed driver, and whether the person driving is a person who is of interest or is wanted on a warrant—and that person and that vehicle will then be intercepted.

How can scanning the number plate reveal whether the person driving is an unlicensed driver, and whether the person driving is a person who is of interest or is wanted on a warrant?

Colour me skeptical…

It would tell them who the vehicle is registered too, then on their computers or via radio they could pull up all the information and work out whether there is means to investigate further(pull them over). For the majority of people there would only be a few people or less who drive their car so the chances of catching unlicensed drivers, people with warrants on them etc would be pretty good.

Technology is a wonderful thing.

Of course, even once they have your information they’ll follow you for 10 minutes before deciding to pull you over.

screaming banshee9:14 pm 21 Oct 10

moneypenny2612 said :

Colour me skeptical…

So the system reads the numberplate and if the registered owner of the vehicle is a person of interest or unlicensed they get pulled up and asked the question.

Statistically the registered owner of the vehicle is the person that will be driving the vehicle. You dont have to work for NASA to figure that out.

TVStar said :

Human rights anyone?

I’d be very surprised if they keep the images of the numberplates on file, its not as though it could be used as evidence. If a flagged plate drives past the operator is notified and the suspect vehicle is pulled over for more questioning.

Chaz said :

more revenue raising.
things like this do not combat the problem of bad driving.

I disagree, there is a very good chance that someone who continues to drive without a licence will be picked up by this system and chances are they have lost their license due to ……wait for it……bad driving. The unfortunate thing is that our judicial system thinks that by further suspending said bad driver’s license they will not do it again.

What were the recent statistic on drunk driving, 70% of people caught were repeat offenders.

moneypenny2612 said :

Skidbladnir said :


Assistant Commissioner Quaedvlieg: Sure. They are a dedicated, full-time team. They will be operating vehicles which are equipped with the RAPID technology. The RAPID technology is an electronic detection system. It works on digital video. It scans the number plates of vehicles as they drive past the point of the vehicle. It will notify to the police officers at that site whether that vehicle is unregistered, whether it is uninsured, whether the person driving is an unlicensed driver, and whether the person driving is a person who is of interest or is wanted on a warrant—and that person and that vehicle will then be intercepted.

How can scanning the number plate reveal whether the person driving is an unlicensed driver, and whether the person driving is a person who is of interest or is wanted on a warrant?

Colour me skeptical…

It can tell if the car is owned by such a person, but not who is driving. Must be annoying when you borrow a car from a person who has lost there licence.

moneypenny26127:52 pm 21 Oct 10

Skidbladnir said :


Assistant Commissioner Quaedvlieg: Sure. They are a dedicated, full-time team. They will be operating vehicles which are equipped with the RAPID technology. The RAPID technology is an electronic detection system. It works on digital video. It scans the number plates of vehicles as they drive past the point of the vehicle. It will notify to the police officers at that site whether that vehicle is unregistered, whether it is uninsured, whether the person driving is an unlicensed driver, and whether the person driving is a person who is of interest or is wanted on a warrant—and that person and that vehicle will then be intercepted.

How can scanning the number plate reveal whether the person driving is an unlicensed driver, and whether the person driving is a person who is of interest or is wanted on a warrant?

Colour me skeptical…

Woody Mann-Caruso7:45 pm 21 Oct 10

That gives us a basic model of revenue of around $2,000 per hour over a seven-hour day over 240 days per year

Ahhahahaaaha.

Human rights anyone? You’re basically monitored regardless of if you have done anything wrong or have brought yourself to the attention of police. Great.

How long do they keep the images, and do they capture people who smash them off police cars parked at servos on the Barton Highway?

more revenue raising.
things like this do not combat the problem of bad driving.

Rawhide Kid Part34:28 pm 21 Oct 10

They’ll probably end up mounting these on their light bar’s

Pitchka said :

OP may have already lost his license for a short period, then was caught with this device whilst driving unlicensed, and then lost it for an additional 2 years.

Sorry, not the OP, i meant Diggety.

OP may have already lost his license for a short period, then was caught with this device whilst driving unlicensed, and then lost it for an additional 2 years.

James-T-Kirk3:14 pm 21 Oct 10

And, nobody stole it??? Amazing!

I suspect its one of the RAPID (Recognition and Analysis of Plates IDentified) cars.
And this is the Australian provider of the MPH-900 system.

From May 2010, Assembly Select Committee on Estimates (page 108 of linked document):
MR SESELJA: … six additional police officers to work in an automated number plate recognition team. Could you describe in a little more detail what exactly these six additional officers will be doing while on patrol?
Assistant Commissioner Quaedvlieg: Sure. They are a dedicated, full-time team. They will be operating vehicles which are equipped with the RAPID technology. The RAPID technology is an electronic detection system. It works on digital video. It scans the number plates of vehicles as they drive past the point of the vehicle. It will notify to the police officers at that site whether that vehicle is unregistered, whether it is uninsured, whether the person driving is an unlicensed driver, and whether the person driving is a person who is of interest or is wanted on a warrant—and that person and that vehicle will then be intercepted.
MR SESELJA: It refers to a revenue line associated with this. How has that been calculated? That will be $1.85 million in 2010-11 and then a little bit less in the outyears. What extra revenue are we expecting as a result of having this technology deployed?
Assistant Commissioner Quaedvlieg: The revenue forecast was an extrapolation of a trial we ran with this technology over five months of the last calendar year. That gives us a basic model of revenue of around $2,000 per hour over a seven-hour day over 240 days per year—so about 65 per cent capacity operational, allowing for a back-end administration.

…In addition to existing disqualification period.

Woody Mann-Caruso2:55 pm 21 Oct 10

Unlicensed driver punished by being prohibited from holding a license for 2 years?

ConanOfCooma2:37 pm 21 Oct 10

Diggety said :

MPH 900 primarily use for:

– stolen vehicle recovery.
– unregistered vehicle.
– unlicensed vehicle owner (this is how I lost my license for 2 years).

How could they take something from you that you didn’t have?

Diggety said :

– unlicensed vehicle owner (this is how I lost my license for 2 years).

If you were unlicensed, how could you possible loose your licence?

MPH 900 primarily use for:

– stolen vehicle recovery.
– unregistered vehicle.
– unlicensed vehicle owner (this is how I lost my license for 2 years).

Interesting that it’s on a rental car.

colourful sydney racing identity1:44 pm 21 Oct 10

saw that day before yesterday as well.

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII1:38 pm 21 Oct 10

Oh, that old thing. It’s a mobile plate hunter.

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