29 February 2008

Greenhorn police to revenue raise

| beasley
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According to our Police Minister, Simon Corbell, we should be all thankful that the newest batch of green police officers are being released onto our streets to uphold the law and order of our fair city and bring down our crime rates….yeah right!

First couple of weeks will be revenue raising for their new masters:

Quote “The first weeks of the new officers’ service will be with ACT Policing Traffic Operations”

Full release: http://www.chiefminister.act.gov.au/media.asp?media=3474&section=52&title=Media%20Release&id=52

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No, no tickets in over 40 years.

I am using the posts above, and anecdotal comments from aquaintences, to pass comment. I had expected that a reasonable reading of my comments would lead to a realisation that my concern was in regard to the resourcing and numbers of the local force.

Where there is smoke etc. I personally have been impressed on the couple of occasions I had contact. However, when the public feel they are not taken seriously, and when obfustication takes place to head off further public complaint, the situation needs looking at.

I have hobbies. Police bashing is not one of them!

Cranky – plenty of posts make it here about the disatisfaction with the CAnberra plod. Its the same – good service tell one person, bad service tell 20 people. Someone give you a ticket?

The widespread disatisfaction with the cops is not as widespread as you think – My parents did a survey thingy encompasing several suburbs last year conducted by ANU – with, surprise surprise, most people satisfied.

Your username says it all really – find a hobby

Ah Junkett, don’t you realise you’ve been snowed. Les is Keelty’s brother in law.

More seriously. Would posts such as the above be written if there was not a fairly widespread disatisfaction with the service provided by our local plod.

A lack of interest in reported incidents (both civil and criminal), active discouragement of citizens reporting incidents, lack of presence on the streets, and the mares nest of policing Civic/Manuka in the inebriated hours.

I am not happy that when the police do get off their collective bums they attract criticism. This seems to have it’s roots in the court system, where they have to prove they had the wisdom of Job on every occasion.

I would love reassurance that our local force was well resourced, well managed and had sufficient officers to keep the low life at bay. Under the current system, this reassurance is a pipe dream.

Les et al. Your pro establishment comments won’t be tolerated here.
Stop interjecting with common sense and let the idiots on the sidelines continue with their ignorance. They’ve spent years doing nothing and have had plenty of time to perfect the defeatist’s attitude.

Many years ago, I heard a person who drove taxis tell the group that he’d been pulled up by the police for tailgating someone, the offence was ‘menacing driving’.

Who would be at fault if:

Someone overtakes me and merges just metres from my front bumper and then immediately jumps on their ABS brakes leaving me in my 1990s non-ABS car little chance to pull up in time and avoid a accident?

Is that an unsafe lane change or would I just have to wear it?

How could I prove I was not at fault?

s126 ARR – Keeping a safe distance behind vehicles

A driver must drive a sufficient distance behind a vehicle travelling in front of the driver so the driver can, if necessary, stop safely to avoid a collision with the vehicle.

minime2 – what is the offence for tailgating – go check the legislation and get back to us.


You will find the Police purchase agreement and other reports in the above link.

Special G is right, NSW and Vic dont want anything to do with the ACT. Instead what should happen is that There should be one Police force to cover all of Australia. Ppl do get more for their Police here than other states. eg, NSW Dont attend Burglaries unless there is some forensics. ACT attends every burglary!

Police have a helicopter base at Majura, and the flight path for small planes helicopters goes over Watson and Hackett.

“pinging tailgating” means Catching and Punishing. Not sending tickets in the mail. Cops, actually on the road, doing more than manning speed traps and RBTs. Actually enforcing road rules which are routinely flouted by Canberra/Qbn drivers every day.


Have you ever tried to voluntarily pull over for RBT? Kind of throws them off. I wonder if you drove round looking for them and kept pulling in [sober of course] they would get sickof you? And, have you ever tried NOT answering that question “Have you had anything to drink to(night) day driver?” Or making a polite suggestion that his little machiney-thing will tell him that in a few seconds time? See, if ya cars in good nick nd you are sober, there is sooo much fun to be had.

Comment by ant..
“And I’d just love to see any stats on them pinging anyone for things like tailgating and the like. I’d be surprised if there were any stats at all.”

This is how it would probably happen – Mr Victim calls to report he was tailgated. Gives a rego to police, police send ticket to alleged offender. Alleged offender contests ticket. Ends up in Court…
Magistrate: “Mr Victim, did the Defendant tailgate you?”
Mr Victim: “Yes”
Magistrate: “Mr Alleged Offender, did you tailgate Mr Victim?”
Mr Alleged Offender: “No.”
Magistrate: “Hmmmm. Quite a quandry. Not guilty – because you’re both credible witnesses.”

Yeah ant, this seems like a great idea and and even better use of public money.

Re: Choppers.
Yes, that was a Navy chopper at the Brumbies – it flew over Ainslie/Braddon around 8pm (might have been a Sea King – bit hard to tell without my spectacles). Rather than engaging Taliban fighters (yeah, right), it was recruiting, since Navy sponsors the Brumbies.

But, AFP does have access to some “air support” or whatever they might call it. While flying around in ACT airspace I have personally heard the callsign “FedPol One” used. May not be 100% used in ACT, and maybe it’s a leased helo.

“The people who whinge about ACT police are generally those who have tried to ring them about a burglary or crime, and been fobbed off. Which is gradually becoming the entire population of Canberra.

Comment by sepi”

Exactly! Or greeted with total indifference and later incompetance.

And I’d just love to see any stats on them pinging anyone for things like tailgating and the like. I’d be surprised if there were any stats at all.


Yes, we read it was a Navy chopper already. That doesn’t explain WHY it has been hanging around, as there are few to no Taliban resistance fighters engaged in guerrilla warfare on the mean streets of Watson.

Thankyou Cranky, that explains it. Don’t see why they couldn’t idle over the vast stretches of land further north, I guess they didn’t want to disturb all those endangered lizards who held up the Gungahlin Drive extension for so long.

thankyou, my curiosity is satisfied 😉

A Navy helicopter has just dropped troops at the Brumbies game.

el ......TECortina 250 Deathtrap8:58 pm 01 Mar 08



The chopper was a Navy Sea King… It was also around about 4.30 in the arvo…

Comment by abc — 1 March, 2008 @ 8:51 am

then who is buzzing the northside via chopper at the moment?

Sepi’s third paragraph totally encapsulates the argument.

el ......TECortina 250 Deathtrap8:41 pm 01 Mar 08

Again, not a police helicopter.

Helicopter is back to its circling fun. How bizarre.

Cost aside which would be very similar NSW and VIC have both stated in the past they have zero desire to provide a policing contract to the ACT. ACT pays for a certain number of Police and services, eg forensics from the AFP. In return they ask for certain things to be accomplished. This is were it gets kind of tricky – how to ask for something that is not particularly quantifiable eg perception of crime.

Eg Peoples perception of violent crime is that they are increasing. Are they actually increasing or is it simply more media involved (youtube etc.)

I am pretty sure the agreement between the ACT and AFP can be looked at by the general public. more info available with quick search of the website http://www.afp.gov.au/act.html. The agreement has been discussed at length here on RA.

For John Tuttle – the level of service people get in the ACT is quite high in comparison to other states.

in defence of ACT police, when our car was stolen they were very prompt in recovering it, finger printing it and keeping us informed once they caught the little twerp who took it on a joyride before dumping it…
I’ve also called them out for help in neighbour disputes and they’ve been helpful and professional…

I’d like to know the agreement the ACT has with the AFP too. Years ago it was about ‘outcomes’ which meant X many breathalysed, X many speeding tickets etc, and said nothing about how many police were required for the ACT. Id be interested to know if that has changed.

There are not enough police, and this causes them to send mixed messages. So one day they will be running a campaign to prevent numberplate theft, and offering a half day workshop on attaching them more strongly, and the next week if you ring up to report a number plate theft in progress they are not remotely interested.

The people who whinge about ACT police are generally those who have tried to ring them about a burglary or crime, and been fobbed off. Which is gradually becoming the entire population of Canberra.

Hey vandam, while you were having a whinge, you forgot to notice I wasn’t complaining about the helicopter, and only speculated it was the police, not blaming them. No other organisation has a reason to have a helicopter circling around the suburbs at night so I think it’s a fair assumption!

Hey vandam – I just read your comment and I agree with the sentiment. (Although your comment is not exactly constructive, you are adding just another ‘whinge’ comment like you are criticising).

My questions about costs/value were real questions – I wasn’t saying the AFP costs too much. Personally I doubt if NSW police took on the job it would be better value. I’m not sure about relative costs though.


Just spotted your post taking me to task.

Recounting the experience of a friend, told to me yesterday. His daughter was accosted whilst parked in her car, with 2 female friends, at a Tuggers shopping centre, late evening, whilst shopping. A low life approached them, demanding money and sexual favours.

When told to go away, he used a tyre lever to smash the window and front mudguard. Warned them that he had their rego number so would do untold damage in retribution if the police were informed.

They told her father, who contacted the police. This is when the saga described above was played out.

I am not making this up. This is an attempt to minimise any police action, I believe as a result of low police numbers.

HA, dont use derision to dismiss another’s view. It probably says more about you than me.

Wow what a great community we have in Canberra, No wonder no one wants to be here.
1: People start whinging at more cops as if its revenue raising.
2: People complain about too many rbt’s.
3: People whinge about the noise of a chopper and automatically blame the Police.
4: The AFP costs to much.
And it goes on. Is there ever a thread on this website that doesn’t involve some form of Police bashing? No wonder Cops crack the shits. All they deal with is Canberrans who whinge and complain all the time.
Get a life and appreciate what we’ve got. There are a lot of cops who have travelled quite far and left their families behind to serve the ACT. A bit of appreciation might go a long way!

I got stopped at an RBT on Karinga Dr in Spence yesterday (Friday) afternoon at about 5:30pm.

In regards to the RBT, I had two dogs in the back, who wern’t strapped in. Is it only the law that dogs in utes have to be tied in, because the officer didn’t say anything.

Anyone else notice the increase in RBT’s lately. One on Monday night on Belconnen way. And there was one last night as well. Of course I had to line up as I fit the bill perfectly (Young Male). And no, I was not over the limit, I refuse to drink drive or be in the car with someone that does.

I would have thought at 10:30pm the people to be pulling over would be the old people. Most of my friends only start just heading out then (thankfully most don’t drink drive… Yes, I have a stupid friend)

I’d sure like to see cops out and about, keeping an eye on what people are doing, especially on the roads. I saw some in recent weeks, and every time, they were doing “national security” crap for visiting dignitaries.

I think that is what the AFP think their job is now, they’ve been dazzled by things NSC and mundane local police work is not attractive to them.

We could outsource our ACT police work to Queanbeyan and get a better result, not that the Qbn police are anything to write home about, but at least they know what they’re there to do, and aren’t dreaming of catching terrorists all day.

The chopper was a Navy Sea King… It was also around about 4.30 in the arvo…

Do you also call it ‘revenue raising’ if they are prosecuting people abusing animals, shoplifting, stealing cars, etc. Sometimes people get a large fine you know…you should start a new thread about our silly revenue-raising judicial system.

To be honest, I’d rather have the lesser experienced cops doing traffic and rbt’s, freeing up the more experienced ones to handle more complex situations.

The alternative? Chuck a ‘greenhorn’ into a complex investigation into a serious crime and have them make the odd mistake and the case falls apart.

The real questions to ask about costs/revenues is whether we get value for money out of the AFP, whether the ACT Gov’t is buying ‘enough’ service and whether the Fed Gov’t is paying its way for the special requirements that it puts onto Canberra’s cops.

Eg For a major dignitary visit, do ACT ratepayers cop the bill or not? Does the AFP take everyone off the beat to handle the visit, running the rest of Canberra on skeleton-staff?

What’s the relative cost of AFP versus the States? Would we get a ‘cheaper’ service from NSW?

Beasley you’re going to have to come up with something better than this story for some decent cop bashing. Come on at least put some creativity into it. lke: Corrupt Police fund Corbells holiday in the Maldives, or something.

Canberra doesn’t have a police chopper. I don’t believe choppers of the police variety come equipt with blue and red flashing lights anyway, they would serve no point? More likely to be SouthCare chopper I would think?

Any more police on the beat is a good thing, no matter what they’re doing. Beats putting up the revenue raising speed cameras.. if you’re not paying enough attention to slow down for them. I doubt the 17 or so new police members will fix anything though.. add another 200 and we might get to see some proactive policing one day.

I lie, it was about 6:30pm. Loud as all hell, too. Tried to get some happy snaps but the sun had gone by then.

Speaking of cops, anyone see the helicopter circling above the Mitchell/Watson area around 8pm? I assume it was a police chopper, it had blue and red lights with a big ol’ spotlight on the front. Circled for a good 20 minutes.

Cranky…don’t know what you’re taking (maybe you’ve missed a dose?), don’t know what planetg you’re from, and have no idea why you’ve come outta the blue with such crap. It’s a shame there isn’t either an idiot-detector automatically gatekeeping this site (a bit like some sort of spam filter), or at least some sort of minimum intelligence level requirement before they let idiots like you online. The only deplorable low, as you put it (boy…that’s an original expression) is that I’m even bothering to push-back your nonsense.

Woody Mann-Caruso10:05 pm 29 Feb 08

Silly American slang

Yes – silly American slang used by English-speaking peoples of the British Isles since 1460 to refer to a young ox, and since at least 1650 to refer to a raw recruit. If ‘greenhorn’ isn’t Australian, neither were any of the other words you typed.

It’s the endemic lack of interest in any complaint/observation from members of the public, which can only, apparently, be looked at if the member of the public attends the local police station. This will enable the police to write a report, complete with rego numbers/discriptions etc, (which the member of the public will be required to supply), so that further enquiries can take place.

Of course, the member of the public who has witnessed a bashing/criminal damage/attempted rape, will have to realise that under freedom of information, the suspect will be supplied with the name and address of the member of the public!

When is our police force going to become proactive, rather than a conduit to feed information gained regarding criminals back to the criminal, rather than bringing the criminal to book?

The local system has sunk to deplorable lows. I’m sure the whole situation is a result of low police numbers. Fix it, Sonic!

We get more much needed police on the streets and people still find a reason to complain. Get a grip.

Your “revenue raising” comment is pretty ill-informed and stupid.

We need more cops on the road. Simple as that.

Mike Crowther8:32 pm 29 Feb 08

Yes…terrible waste. They’ve been through the academy now, lets put em in charge of a couple of cold case murders.

Why do they have to be called “Greenhorn’s”???
Silly American slang. At least it’s not Australian, as far as I know.

Every recruit class spends their first couple of weeks in traffic doing RBT. Its a way of easing them into dealing with the public. Last time I checked there was no money raised by that (apart from licence and rego checks)

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