Gutless Coppers and neighbourhood hoons

Right…

So:

OP and neighbours have approached the police and been advised exactly what they need to do to make a proper complaint.

OP and neighbours are too lazy to bother following this advice, yet the ‘coppers’ are being called ‘gutless’?!

SgtSlaughter – as the relative of the so called ‘gutless police officer’ in your street, I find your comments offensive and counter productive to helping the current situation. If you are concerned with the actions (or lack of action) of the off duty police officers at a birthday party (which took place over a month ago) you have had ample opportunity to make the short trip up the street and raise those concerns. Your visit is still pending.
As I’m sure you are aware, there will be a public forum for the residents of the street to attend where you will be provided with information and the opportunity to voice your concerns with police and other residents.. In light of your mindless rant, I’m sure your attendance can be expected.

I’m not going to argue that the off-duty police officer should have intervened. The timing and situation were inappropriate. However, if he is a police officer and he is aware that these people are doing this on a regular basis, surely he can (and should) do something about it. If he is aware of serial offenders continuously breaking the law and putting lives at risk, surely he is duty bound to do take action. To continuously turn a blind eye to ongoing criminal behaviour seems like the wrong thing to do.

Spideydog said :

EvanJames said :

However, some people here have said that the OP should go speak to the bad neighbours. Would it be better for the other residents to gather evidence and present it to the police, or should they go confront them directly?

Mostly from what I have seen, the general tone appears to be saying NOT to confront them. But while we are on the subject and to answer the point you have raised, the OP does state that he went to speak with the individuals previously about their behaviour and was promptly told to “Sod Off” (putting it politely) So this tells me that directly engaging these individuals is a lost cause and has been demonstrated to only inflame the situation. The OP now wants apparent off duty police to do what he has done ….. a saying comes to mind “stupid is doing something over and over, expecting different results”

So to answer your question, when someone has already engaged (hopefully in a diplomatic manner) with the persons involved and has resulted in a very negative result, yes, gather the evidence, garner some neighbourly support and report it to ON DUTY police to be investigated impartially and independently (something that the good SgtSlaughter can’t understand apparently)

If this is happening soooooo frequently as been presented by the OP, well getting the required evidence can’t be hard at all.

SgtSlaughter said :

A quick note for those saying the poor Policeman should remain locked up in safe house and not go talk to the scary boys up the street here’s a slice of reality for you.
Police officers are SWORN to uphold the law not to uphold the law when it suits them sorry.

So Mr Confrontation, show me where it says that Police members are on duty 24/7, then we will talk about WHO needs a reality check or not !!!!!

No point arguing with the OP.

They are emotional and the only outlet they have is blaming others, they’d rather blame an off duty Police officer, who if they were to do anything court wise, would be blasted out of court for being involved in the situation, then focusing on finding ways to stop the young fella and friends doing burnouts.

Good luck OP, remember if you start hassling those you want help from, you may not receive the level of help you want. Good work on showing so much emotion in a post as well.

EvanJames said :

However, some people here have said that the OP should go speak to the bad neighbours. Would it be better for the other residents to gather evidence and present it to the police, or should they go confront them directly?

Mostly from what I have seen, the general tone appears to be saying NOT to confront them. But while we are on the subject and to answer the point you have raised, the OP does state that he went to speak with the individuals previously about their behaviour and was promptly told to “Sod Off” (putting it politely) So this tells me that directly engaging these individuals is a lost cause and has been demonstrated to only inflame the situation. The OP now wants apparent off duty police to do what he has done ….. a saying comes to mind “stupid is doing something over and over, expecting different results”

So to answer your question, when someone has already engaged (hopefully in a diplomatic manner) with the persons involved and has resulted in a very negative result, yes, gather the evidence, garner some neighbourly support and report it to ON DUTY police to be investigated impartially and independently (something that the good SgtSlaughter can’t understand apparently)

If this is happening soooooo frequently as been presented by the OP, well getting the required evidence can’t be hard at all.

SgtSlaughter said :

A quick note for those saying the poor Policeman should remain locked up in safe house and not go talk to the scary boys up the street here’s a slice of reality for you.
Police officers are SWORN to uphold the law not to uphold the law when it suits them sorry.

So Mr Confrontation, show me where it says that Police members are on duty 24/7, then we will talk about WHO needs a reality check or not !!!!!

I recommend the first step to be to go and confront them about it. They shouldn’t be unreasonable about it and hopefully you’ll be able to resolve the conflict you have with them in a rational manner.

Or send it to us, we love video!

Agree with most on gathering video evidence, but seeing there is no police action send a copy to channels 7 and 9 to their current affairs shows and let them know of this. Police, councils and pollies seem to wake up and do something when there is pressure from a national TV station.

The OP seems to have made little to no effort to solve his own problems but rather expects his neighbour who apparently is a copper to sort it for him. The comment “(I can only assume)” hints the OP hasn’t even made the effort to discuss the issue with the neighbour. It is still not clear what steps the OP has taken to engage the Police who are on duty. I would think this matter should be logged and recorded through the same avenues as all matters requiring Police intervention so the Police may remain transparent and accountable.

Other neighbours apparently have contacted Police and it has been outlined what is required (eg. witness statements, testimony in Court etc.) but this has been dismissed saying “the evidence is all over the road”. The OP has some, what seems to me to be unrealistic expectations for ‘off duty’ Police but rather than try to understand what goods reasons may exist, continues to attack what he doesn’t or hasn’t tried to understand. While the OP did not ask for advice, there have been several common sense suggestions. But rather than accept this advice, the OP continues to attack Police and the neighbour.

I suggest the OP should be in touch with Police and his neighbour to discuss what he can do to help solve the problem and gain some understanding instead of sitting on his arse ranting to RA. Perhaps there is unknown motivation for these attacks. Perhaps he has fallen out with the neighbour or was on the pointy end of a traffic ticket at some time. Whatever the case, he can expect nothing to happen if he doesn’t get involved to some level. A lot of posts have pointed out what was wrong with the OP but it’s clear he was right about one thing, he is a useless whinger.

Ah, remember the days when a citizen could report a crime to the police, and they would investigate it.

Now it seems we are expected to perform the surveillance ourselves and serve up their case on a silver platter.

Nevermind the risks we face when taking those HD videos and photos of cars and rego numbers and the likely violent characters driving them.

So… you know where they live? You’ve seen them doing it? You can identify the car?

Either film them and submit the evidence to the police or take care of the situation yourself.

One guess.. Zox in Calwell?
Sgt, I feel your pain! Lets not blame the friendly copper though who has to live in said street close to these feral and out of control kids – is it any wonder he would want to steer clear? He too must listen to these engines and his family must also use this hazardous road.
As for this sounding “fishy” the proof is up and down the road and is constantly being updated.
On a number of occasions when visiting friends near this location I have nearly been hit by these hoons and witnessed several young children on foot and bikes riding/playing on the footpath.
I don’t have an answer to this dilema but certainly feel for people (and not just here) having to live with these sort of irresponsible idiots!

Tooks said :

A quick note for those saying the poor Policeman should remain locked up in safe house and not go talk to the scary boys up the street here’s a slice of reality for you.
Police officers are SWORN to uphold the law not to uphold the law when it suits them sorry.

Okay, next time you’re slightly exceeding the speed limit, fail to indicate properly, park illegally etc, then an off duty cop should pull you over and enforce the law. That is absolutely brilliant. Can’t see that being a problem at all.

I know he is a Police officer because unless he regularly steals a Police Car and parks it in his driveway whilst wearing an AFP uniform he’s a copper.

So if he sees a burnout in his street while on duty, I’m sure he’ll do something about it. On the plus side, I bet there are no burnouts while the police car is parked there…

Some of you make sense but those that seem to think that Police have the right to chose where and when they uphold the law make so little sense it’s scary and I’m surprised you know how to actually turn on a computer.

Actually they do have a right to chose where and when they uphold the law. It’s called discretion. I’d suggest when they’re probably pissed at a mate’s party, then that is one such time. I’m sure if you got stabbed in the face in front of them, they’d help, but a relatively minor traffic complaint? Get real.

I have spoken to the Police myself, I have also spoken to residents of the house.

Gave them a good statement, did you? When’s the Court date? You obviously haven’t talked to the cop on your street. Easier to slag him off on the internet?

The mother of these boys has attempted to have them move out but she is scared of them so whilst they leave for a few days they come back quick enough and tell her to ‘get over it’. Please before any of you start going on about how SHE should go to the Police she has to live in that house and if the cops are not prepared to do anything that they have first hand knowlegde of then imagine what she must think of her chances if she formally logged a complaint against those same people that the police are so hesitant do to anything about.

If she’s unwilling to make a statement with her first-hand knowledge, then her information might be good for intel purposes, but not much else?

I notice how you completely gloss over

Kind of how you gloss over the fact you – and apparently the neighbours – have so far failed to provide an adequate statement to allow police to actually do anything about it.

Over to you keyboard heroes.

Says the guy who calls his neighbour – who presumably lives a few doors away – gutless. On his keyboard…

If you or any other of your neighbours are able to provide solid evidence of an offence/s and believe police are not acting, then do something about it. Go into your local station or write to the OIC of that station. However, if you are one of these anonymous complainants who is unwilling to provide a statement, then realistically, what do you expect can be done?

Just decided to comment on this one because I agree with Tooks – at each point of the comments in fact. Without anyone complaining to the Police and providing a statement, why whinge about it? They have a hard enough job as it is.

And they do have a descretionary ‘power’ if you will but you will find, as Tooks said, that if your getting stabbed in the face you’ll get assistance from any off-duty officer.

A quick note for those saying the poor Policeman should remain locked up in safe house and not go talk to the scary boys up the street here’s a slice of reality for you.
Police officers are SWORN to uphold the law not to uphold the law when it suits them sorry.

Okay, next time you’re slightly exceeding the speed limit, fail to indicate properly, park illegally etc, then an off duty cop should pull you over and enforce the law. That is absolutely brilliant. Can’t see that being a problem at all.

I know he is a Police officer because unless he regularly steals a Police Car and parks it in his driveway whilst wearing an AFP uniform he’s a copper.

So if he sees a burnout in his street while on duty, I’m sure he’ll do something about it. On the plus side, I bet there are no burnouts while the police car is parked there…

Some of you make sense but those that seem to think that Police have the right to chose where and when they uphold the law make so little sense it’s scary and I’m surprised you know how to actually turn on a computer.

Actually they do have a right to chose where and when they uphold the law. It’s called discretion. I’d suggest when they’re probably pissed at a mate’s party, then that is one such time. I’m sure if you got stabbed in the face in front of them, they’d help, but a relatively minor traffic complaint? Get real.

I have spoken to the Police myself, I have also spoken to residents of the house.

Gave them a good statement, did you? When’s the Court date? You obviously haven’t talked to the cop on your street. Easier to slag him off on the internet?

The mother of these boys has attempted to have them move out but she is scared of them so whilst they leave for a few days they come back quick enough and tell her to ‘get over it’. Please before any of you start going on about how SHE should go to the Police she has to live in that house and if the cops are not prepared to do anything that they have first hand knowlegde of then imagine what she must think of her chances if she formally logged a complaint against those same people that the police are so hesitant do to anything about.

If she’s unwilling to make a statement with her first-hand knowledge, then her information might be good for intel purposes, but not much else?

I notice how you completely gloss over

Kind of how you gloss over the fact you – and apparently the neighbours – have so far failed to provide an adequate statement to allow police to actually do anything about it.

Over to you keyboard heroes.

Says the guy who calls his neighbour – who presumably lives a few doors away – gutless. On his keyboard…

If you or any other of your neighbours are able to provide solid evidence of an offence/s and believe police are not acting, then do something about it. Go into your local station or write to the OIC of that station. However, if you are one of these anonymous complainants who is unwilling to provide a statement, then realistically, what do you expect can be done?

A quick note for those saying the poor Policeman should remain locked up in safe house and not go talk to the scary boys up the street here’s a slice of reality for you.
Police officers are SWORN to uphold the law not to uphold the law when it suits them sorry.
I know he is a Police officer because unless he regularly steals a Police Car and parks it in his driveway whilst wearing an AFP uniform he’s a copper.
Some of you make sense but those that seem to think that Police have the right to chose where and when they uphold the law make so little sense it’s scary and I’m surprised you know how to actually turn on a computer.
Covering the road in nails would be great if I could guarantee that only those fools doing the wrong thing would drive over them but I don’t think you can but ‘smart’ nails
I have spoken to the Police myself, I have also spoken to residents of the house. The mother of these boys has attempted to have them move out but she is scared of them so whilst they leave for a few days they come back quick enough and tell her to ‘get over it’. Please before any of you start going on about how SHE should go to the Police she has to live in that house and if the cops are not prepared to do anything that they have first hand knowlegde of then imagine what she must think of her chances if she formally logged a complaint against those same people that the police are so hesitant do to anything about.
Over to you keyboard heroes.

Spideydog said :

I am pretty sure that everyone here agrees that this anti-social behaviour is not acceptable and action should be taken, but demanding supposed off duty police confront the group is just plain stupid and would more than likely inflame the situation or even end up in a more violent situation which doesn’t solve anything. This type of behaviour (confrontation) is what escalates neighbourhood disputes, see it alllllll the time. Deal with the issue in the proper manner and hopefully it can be resolved.

A united front by the neighbours providing statements (if they witnessed it of course) would be ideal.

So, you are saying that a person going to the bad neighbours and talking to them (direct confrontation) would in fact be risky? I, like many others here, agree with you. Going to confront people engaging in anti-social behaviour is a no-win strategy and most people are reluctant to speak to people like this, because they expect to be met with abuse, threats, profanity and the usual bogan behaviour.

However, some people here have said that the OP should go speak to the bad neighbours. Would it be better for the other residents to gather evidence and present it to the police, or should they go confront them directly?

Woah, seems like everyone had a rough night last night…. helpful bunch today aren’t we.

I can sympathise with your dilemma SgtSlaughter. We had similarly shoddy neighbours (although instead of burnouts we just had axe fights and the timeless game of find-the-syringe-with-the-mower-before-the-dog-does) in Ainslie. Trying to talk to this lowlife resulted in threats on our personal safety, so I wasn’t too happy about taking it to the courts. However, I provided ACT policing and ACT housing with written and photographic evidence of all the goings-on but as far as I’m aware (and I’m happy to be proven wrong) these amounted to nothing.

My solution: move. Disappointingly it’s hard to beat these dickheads at their own game, but getting away from it improved our quality of life a bajillion percent.

Tell your police neighbour that you are going to post the street details on RA if nothing gets done. (I would like to see the Google Sat image).

More useful than google sat images, would be nearmap images, which are timestamped, show previous timed views of the same spot and have a resolution whereby on google images you can see that theres a car in-view, but on nearmap you can almost see the number on the rego label in the window.

/seriously wonders why people use google maps anymore

EvanJames said :

I see the usual police apologists are out in full force, as usual. The police can’t possibly be doing anything wrong! The OP is wrong, he’s probably a criminal, up to something or making it up.

Point out where they are wrong and we can discuss it?

EvanJames said :

Like the more sensible posters have said, Sgt, gather some support from others in the street, gather the evidence.

Thats pretty much much what everyone has been saying, even the apparent “police apologists”

I am pretty sure that everyone here agrees that this anti-social behaviour is not acceptable and action should be taken, but demanding supposed off duty police confront the group is just plain stupid and would more than likely inflame the situation or even end up in a more violent situation which doesn’t solve anything. This type of behaviour (confrontation) is what escalates neighbourhood disputes, see it alllllll the time. Deal with the issue in the proper manner and hopefully it can be resolved.

A united front by the neighbours providing statements (if they witnessed it of course) would be ideal.

PaulM said :

Ignore everything here. Go see a solicitor. Maybe they will give you the same advice as some of the posters here, but you won’t know till you ask someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

Hands down worst advice on this thread.

EvanJames said :

I see the usual police apologists are out in full force, as usual. The police can’t possibly be doing anything wrong! The OP is wrong, he’s probably a criminal, up to something or making it up.

Like the more sensible posters have said, Sgt, gather some support from others in the street, gather the evidence, and demand action.

I’d respond to you, Evan James, but whenever I shoot down your stupid comments, you skulk off from the thread, never to be seen again.

My problem with the OP is that he’s bagging off duty cops for not enforcing the law. If he wanted to have a rant at police, fair enough. Leave off duty cops out of it.

The evidence is all over the road

That is evidence of burnouts, it is not evidence of who performed the burnouts and in what vehicle.

I suspect if there is an ongoing issue of people doing burnouts in the street, then people are either unwilling to provide statements to police, or unable to give enough detail (rego, make, model etc) for the matter to go to Court.

Others have left sensible advice on this thread. I’d advise the OP to follow it.

Firstly,

Get the neighbours together and start identifying registration plates and video it if possible. Police have the power to seize vehicles in the ACT providing there is enough evidence.

secondly,

Its rediculous to expect an off duty copper who is having their birthday, and probably a few drinks to go out and not only identify where they live, but to engage in suspects under the influence of alcohol which would no doubt cause a violent dispute. And probably result in the end of their career when Internal Investigations find out about it.

Thirdly,

How do you know the coppers aren’t doing something about it? How do you know the coppers haven’t already pulled the people responsible over and taken away their licences? How bout you contact your local Police station and find out what is being done about it, rather than slagging off on a off duty copper, which theses burnouts are obviously also affecting.

If anything you should be supporting your off duty Police officer that lives in your street and be working together to stop the problem. Your posting is counter productive and will not achieve anything positive.

And a little eye opener, just because someone gets dealt with by the coppers or has their licence taken off them, doesn’t mean they automatically become good law abiding citizens.

So you expect off duty police officers to act every time they see a crime being committed? Or is it just because it’s in your street? If every off duty police officer acted upon every crime they saw being committed they’d always be on duty. They have a right to their time off work just like anyone else.

Where do you draw the line? Think about this:

– Off duty police officer is driving down the road at the speed limit and gets overtaken by another vehicle. Better try to pull them over in my civilian vehicle whilst off duty and tell them off for speeding.
– Oh look, that guy dropped a piece of rubbish, I’d better whilst I’m off duty go over and ask for his name so I can send him a ticket for littering.

Get the idea? I would suggest that an off duty police officer will act in a situation where it is serious enough to be warranted.

> police are too intimidated by a pack of feral kids

What an idiotic thing to say. You might want to look at the news story from the previous day where police chased and caught 2 armed robbers in Florey. Yeah, real scared of some bogan kids.

So you want a group of off duty police (if in fact they are), who have likely been drinking, with no support via radio (if it turns to poo) and without their tools of the trade to confront the bogans in the street? I’m sure the off duty police officer really wants to have his wife, kids, house and vehicles targeted by these bogans now they know he’s a cop and because he’s confronted them. Great idea.

Police and their families can and do become targets whilst off duty. It’s not pleasant to have criminals threaten to find where you live and rape your wife and children and then kill them just because you’re doing your job. You have no idea what and why police do the things they do. There is a reason for everything and keeping your family safe is paramount.

> The evidence is all over the road

Evidence of what? A vehicle has done a skid but does it show who, how, when and why? No.

Instead of whinging – if these kids are regularly doing it as you say, how about you video it, make diary entries and then provide the evidence to police so they can act, instead of whinging that they do nothing when you’ve done nothing yourself to give them enough evidence to act on it.

Ignore everything here. Go see a solicitor. Maybe they will give you the same advice as some of the posters here, but you won’t know till you ask someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

Neighbourhood Watch might also be able to help out. Join and make contact with the local rep. They have regular meeting with the police and it could be useful.

Good luck!

I see the usual police apologists are out in full force, as usual. The police can’t possibly be doing anything wrong! The OP is wrong, he’s probably a criminal, up to something or making it up.

Like the more sensible posters have said, Sgt, gather some support from others in the street, gather the evidence, and demand action.

Film the burnouts, including number plates, and provide the footage to the police. Put it up on youtube also and link it here.

Realistically, the cops aren’t going to do anything about this situation unless you collect evidence for them.

A few years back I had a dirtbike rider up and down the park area that my battle axe backs onto crazy me crazy all hours of the day and night waking up my at the time young kids up. I spoke to him got a rude response so I went to the shed found a whole container of nail, went out to park found a couple of broke tree branches and placed them nicely on path this slowed him down but didn’t stop him so one night about 11:30pm I heard the bike in distance I headed out front and turned on the hose with a high pressure piece in and sprayed him with it, I never seen him since.

Go for a walk with a pocket full of nails everyday and drop them on said persons driveway after a few sets of tyres they might give up.

1. Call up police assistance line, and ask for advice on ‘required evidence’
2. Write down regos, car models and colours, time, date, and description of driver (and occupants).
3. record footage of fully sick burnouts, try and get reasonable footage, not on a dodgy phone camera.
4. Go and see police (in a police station) with burnt CD of footage, and a little spreadsheet of recent events.

In court, videos and logged details will be much easier to get a charge rather than an angry neighbor with a photograph of some skid marks

What a pathetic little rant. Why didn’t you go out, witness the burnout, then make a statement to police? Afraid of reprisals? How many numberplates, vehicle types, descriptions of occupants etc have you passed onto police for intel/investigative purposes?

Yet you expect an off duty cop on his birthday and his mates (must must all be cops, of course), to go out and deal with a traffic complaint, despite them probably being under the influence of alcohol (presumably).

You’re too spineless to make a statement to police, yet you criticise others for doing nothing? Nice work, “Sergeant”.

100 metres, that’s an impressive burn out.

Your petticoat is showing BKW…..

Serves you right for buying in Gungahlin.

“Several residents have spoken to the Police who have told them that without evidence they can do nothing” …. “I DO have a problem with the fact that a Senior AFP Officer lives 2 doors away from this house and has decided for the reasons mentioned above (I can only assume) to do nothing”

So you haven’t reported this problem to the police yourself then? Doing so might be a good start.

That said, this whole story seems a bit fishy…

Tell your police neighbour that you are going to post the street details on RA if nothing gets done.

Hmmm, if all else fails, go with blackmail.

How do you know how many coppers there were at the party…..because they had short hair cuts?

Yes, I’m sure the Police are gutless. Not a spine among them. In fact all Police are, aren’t they

Then again I assume Sgt Slaughter is your real name? ‘Several residents’ have spoken to Police but again I’m assuming you’re not amongst the several but you’re the hardest man in the street apparently Sgt

“3/ Tell your police neighbour that you are going to post the street details on RA if nothing gets done. (I would like to see the Google Sat image). If you follow through though you might need to back this up with your own details to avoid another silver commodore thread.”

Most stupid idea ever.

SgtSlaughter said: “I DO have a problem with the fact that a Senior AFP Officer lives 2 doors away from this house and has decided for the reasons mentioned above (I can only assume) to do nothing, last week was the officers birthday and he had a party attended by over a dozen serving Police officers and whilst the party was in progress the kids (18-22) lit up the car in the street directly out the front of the Police officers house and not one single copper came out.”

Who are you to tell people what they should or shouldn’t be doing from their own home. Why does an “apparent” off duty police officer, be required to attend to your whim and enforce law in their own street as well…….. maybe they may want to remain impartial for obvious reasons and do the same as any other citizen and report it, so they matter can be appropriately handled by INDEPENDENT officers???? So you wanted the “apparent” group of off duty officers to confront a group of hoodlums in the street? Sounds like a great idea that could have easily turn into a brawl, yup that would solve all the issues and escalated the matter even further.

Anyways, how do you know all these persons were “serving police officers” who mind you if they were, would have been off duty and trying to enjoy a party themselves.

Think outside the box. Things aren’t always black and white. From what you are suggesting, I can see it as being counter productive and actually could have thrust them unnecessarily into a potential violent situation.

That last paragraph is a classic but if the Police can’t help then the answer lies in the Hardware section at Bunnings – cars can’t do burnouts with sharp nails in their tyres.