In photos: Anzac Day Dawn Service 2015

The analogy with Bruce Stadium doesn’t hold btw.

Most people were standing, and an amazing number can fit in a fairly small area.

I didn’t bother counting them, but that was huge crowd.

drfelonious said :

120000 is A LOT of people. It would be the equivalent of filling Canberra Stadium FOUR TIMES. One in three of the Canberra population!

I’m guessing Brendan Nelson is not a footy fan because it might have given him a sense of scale. A full Canberra Stadium feels like an enormous amount of people when you are in the middle of it and all the stands are full. It also causes a fair bit of traffic chaos and the Mal Meninga stand alone is ENORMOUS compared to the baby seating at the Anzac service. Yet a full Canberra stadium is only 25 000.

If you frequent Canberra Stadium and have a sense of what 25 000 looks like and you superimpose it on the photos of the Anzac Day service there is no way on God’s green earth there was anywhere near a fraction of 120 000. Pure unadulterated fantasy. I think the First Dog on the Moon has the best summary of why, exactly, Brendan might have been propagating such rubbish: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/27/un-australian-crimes-against-patriotism-feat-the-anzacs

Brendan was never good at getting the numbers right in the party room either.

120000 is A LOT of people. It would be the equivalent of filling Canberra Stadium FOUR TIMES. One in three of the Canberra population!

I’m guessing Brendan Nelson is not a footy fan because it might have given him a sense of scale. A full Canberra Stadium feels like an enormous amount of people when you are in the middle of it and all the stands are full. It also causes a fair bit of traffic chaos and the Mal Meninga stand alone is ENORMOUS compared to the baby seating at the Anzac service. Yet a full Canberra stadium is only 25 000.

If you frequent Canberra Stadium and have a sense of what 25 000 looks like and you superimpose it on the photos of the Anzac Day service there is no way on God’s green earth there was anywhere near a fraction of 120 000. Pure unadulterated fantasy. I think the First Dog on the Moon has the best summary of why, exactly, Brendan might have been propagating such rubbish: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/27/un-australian-crimes-against-patriotism-feat-the-anzacs

dungfungus said :

Ian Warden in Gang Gang, Canberra Times today, greatly disputes the 120,000 AWM attendance also.

He’s not the only one. It brought to mind the year 1996, specifically, the Daily Telegraph’s spectator estimates for the Super League matches.

wildturkeycanoe said :

Masquara said :

justsomeaussie said :

The solution doesn’t have to be rocket science. Just have a no personal vehicle driving zone on specific roads between 5am till 7am. That will let people drive and walk to the AWM and busses arrive easily then after the service finishes at 6:15 the buses can move freely for 45 minutes clearing the crowds and people in cars just have to wait till 7am.

Better still: an amnesty on parking fines down the Limestone Ave median strip and along Parkes Way, and an informal parking fee of $10 (collected in buckets by volunteers) with the proceeds to go to the RSL. The NCA’s claims that there are “safety issues” with illegal parking for such an occasion are nonsense. Any minor “safety issue” is more than countered by the convenience for 120,000 attendees.

Wouldn’t it be nice to see the proceeds of the parking fines go toward something else apart from the government’s pocket, such as helping war widows or funding to help returned service people cope with life after the military?

I take your point about the revenue, but think it would be better if people just didn’t park illegally on the median strip. There was a plenty of free, legal parking a few hundred meters away.

Alexandra Craig said :

Masquara said :

justsomeaussie said :

The solution doesn’t have to be rocket science. Just have a no personal vehicle driving zone on specific roads between 5am till 7am. That will let people drive and walk to the AWM and busses arrive easily then after the service finishes at 6:15 the buses can move freely for 45 minutes clearing the crowds and people in cars just have to wait till 7am.

Better still: an amnesty on parking fines down the Limestone Ave median strip and along Parkes Way, and an informal parking fee of $10 (collected in buckets by volunteers) with the proceeds to go to the RSL. The NCA’s claims that there are “safety issues” with illegal parking for such an occasion are nonsense. Any minor “safety issue” is more than countered by the convenience for 120,000 attendees.

Yeah, but if you did this then people will just assume “oh we parked there for the Anzac Day dawn service so we can park there for Skyfire/Floriade etc etc”

I don’t know if it’s a minor safety issue though, people getting out of cars parked in the middle of the road would be in danger of being hit by a car coming up onto the median strip, kids would be more at risk to walk out onto the road etc

Not to mention the damage done by heavy vehicles parked on wet grass. There’s a reason it’s illegal to park there, no matter what festival or event is on. I parked for free less than 800m away and walked past so many cars parked on the median strip. Clearly, they just wanted to be closer because at 3am, there were plenty of spaces (on the dirt) where I parked in Ainslie.

justsomeaussie said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

Wouldn’t it be nice to see the proceeds of the parking fines go toward something else apart from the government’s pocket, such as helping war widows or funding to help returned service people cope with life after the military?

Nice sentiment but governments are more interested in spending millions on commerating ANZACs from 100 years ago than funding today’s veterans and veteran community.

This book highlights it perfectly.

http://www.blackincbooks.com/books/anzacs-long-shadow

That it’s easier to build monuments to the long dead than to acknowledge failures of the current system.

But back to parking, surely we want to encourage less people to drive to the dawn service in general? That if we can get people in and out easily on buses it will help with congestion and jams and will help reduce the risk of an accident of people parking on verges in the dark.

Thanks for sharing the link to the book! Hopefully next year the transport situation will be a bit less contentious and we can focus on what an amazing job the AWM did organising such a beautiful service to commemorate ANZAC100.

dungfungus said :

Ian Warden in Gang Gang, Canberra Times today, greatly disputes the 120,000 AWM attendance also.

Oh well, I am sure there was no-one there with a people counting device. In any case, what a beautiful service and a respectful, amazing crowd! And thank goodness it did not rain until later.

Milly Withers said :

Great photos Michelle!

Thank you so much Milly. It was a beautiful morning, doing what I love. So glad you enjoyed the images.

Ian Warden in Gang Gang, Canberra Times today, greatly disputes the 120,000 AWM attendance also.

Great photos Michelle!

wildturkeycanoe said :

You missed the point. 120,000 were able to get there no problem…

Only because most of them used buses and didn’t bring their cars.

The problem is we now have a considerable population, but only an ageing fleet of 420 buses and no real transport system to get people around the major attractions in the heart of Canberra.

wildturkeycanoe said :

Wouldn’t it be nice to see the proceeds of the parking fines go toward something else apart from the government’s pocket, such as helping war widows or funding to help returned service people cope with life after the military?

Nice sentiment but governments are more interested in spending millions on commerating ANZACs from 100 years ago than funding today’s veterans and veteran community.

This book highlights it perfectly.

http://www.blackincbooks.com/books/anzacs-long-shadow

That it’s easier to build monuments to the long dead than to acknowledge failures of the current system.

But back to parking, surely we want to encourage less people to drive to the dawn service in general? That if we can get people in and out easily on buses it will help with congestion and jams and will help reduce the risk of an accident of people parking on verges in the dark.

Even better, an amnesty on chainsaws to clear the area around the AWM so we can get all the cars in.

After the obligatory period where it is all turned into a dustbowl, we can seal the open space and add metered parking.

Then after another decent period of morning for our dearly departed vegetation, we can build underground parking with offices over.

The Circle of Life, Canberra Style.

Masquara said :

justsomeaussie said :

The solution doesn’t have to be rocket science. Just have a no personal vehicle driving zone on specific roads between 5am till 7am. That will let people drive and walk to the AWM and busses arrive easily then after the service finishes at 6:15 the buses can move freely for 45 minutes clearing the crowds and people in cars just have to wait till 7am.

Better still: an amnesty on parking fines down the Limestone Ave median strip and along Parkes Way, and an informal parking fee of $10 (collected in buckets by volunteers) with the proceeds to go to the RSL. The NCA’s claims that there are “safety issues” with illegal parking for such an occasion are nonsense. Any minor “safety issue” is more than countered by the convenience for 120,000 attendees.

Wouldn’t it be nice to see the proceeds of the parking fines go toward something else apart from the government’s pocket, such as helping war widows or funding to help returned service people cope with life after the military?

Masquara said :

justsomeaussie said :

The solution doesn’t have to be rocket science. Just have a no personal vehicle driving zone on specific roads between 5am till 7am. That will let people drive and walk to the AWM and busses arrive easily then after the service finishes at 6:15 the buses can move freely for 45 minutes clearing the crowds and people in cars just have to wait till 7am.

Better still: an amnesty on parking fines down the Limestone Ave median strip and along Parkes Way, and an informal parking fee of $10 (collected in buckets by volunteers) with the proceeds to go to the RSL. The NCA’s claims that there are “safety issues” with illegal parking for such an occasion are nonsense. Any minor “safety issue” is more than countered by the convenience for 120,000 attendees.

Yeah, but if you did this then people will just assume “oh we parked there for the Anzac Day dawn service so we can park there for Skyfire/Floriade etc etc”

I don’t know if it’s a minor safety issue though, people getting out of cars parked in the middle of the road would be in danger of being hit by a car coming up onto the median strip, kids would be more at risk to walk out onto the road etc

justsomeaussie said :

The solution doesn’t have to be rocket science. Just have a no personal vehicle driving zone on specific roads between 5am till 7am. That will let people drive and walk to the AWM and busses arrive easily then after the service finishes at 6:15 the buses can move freely for 45 minutes clearing the crowds and people in cars just have to wait till 7am.

Better still: an amnesty on parking fines down the Limestone Ave median strip and along Parkes Way, and an informal parking fee of $10 (collected in buckets by volunteers) with the proceeds to go to the RSL. The NCA’s claims that there are “safety issues” with illegal parking for such an occasion are nonsense. Any minor “safety issue” is more than countered by the convenience for 120,000 attendees.

Getting to the AWM via bus was easy, getting out was a disaster with the first two busses leaving easily but as soon as the public got on the roads they caused traffic jams that blocked the busses. After 45 minutes of waiting and not seeing a single bus we just walked to Russell outselves.

The solution doesn’t have to be rocket science. Just have a no personal vehicle driving zone on specific roads between 5am till 7am. That will let people drive and walk to the AWM and busses arrive easily then after the service finishes at 6:15 the buses can move freely for 45 minutes clearing the crowds and people in cars just have to wait till 7am.

rubaiyat said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

If they had enough buses to get people there, why weren’t the same number of buses used to get them back again?

Maybe because they could only persuade so may bus drivers to get up before 4am and work a double shift on the Public Holiday that everyone else was enjoying?

Better if they had all driven 120,000 cars to the service and parked around the War Memorial. Eh, wildturkeycanoe? 😉

You missed the point. 120,000 were able to get there no problem but had troubles getting home again, unless of course many camped overnight to get the best spots. Was it the number of buses though, the destinations or simply how long it took to get on one? This I don’t know.
Perhaps the people in cars were the winners, as the public transport system [designed to transport the masses] has let so many down.

dungfungus said :

Michelle Doherty said :

Masquara said :

Shane Rattenbury claims that the attendance estimate was 50,000 and that’s why he didn’t put enough buses on, stranding thousands of people.

I heard the same. I don’t think anyone expected 120,000. What tremendous support for Anzac100 and yes,it was a shame that people seemed to get mucked around by the lack of buses. A few people I chatted to didn’t seem to mind the wait. When you think of what our soldiers went through I guess a wait for a bus, pales in comparison. The people I chatted to were in good cheer. I think the sausage sizzles helped. But I agree it would have been frustrating for some. I parked a kilometer away and lugged my camera gear up there.

I know that I will get howled down for saying this but I think the 120,000 crowd is a lot more than were there.
That many people represents one third of the population of Canberra and take into account that it was a long weekend with school holidays still going (a lot of Canberrans were out of town is what I am saying).
It would take over 1,000 ACTION buses to move that many people.
ANZAC day is a personal commemoration for many people so we shouldn’t measure its “success” by the number of people that attend.

I don’t think you’ll get howled down for disagreeing with a number. Though I think a lot of people actually came into Canberra for the Anzac100 service. Whether there were 50,000 or 120,000 I think the “success” of the event lies in the quiet nods of respect, the sea of torch light and red poppies, the amazing silence before the service, and the efforts of countless volunteers and staff.

As for the buses. I think the same number arrived and departed and no one could have predicted that kind of turnout. I know of at least 400 drivers who parked on the median strip (as many have taken to Facebook to vent their frustrations about getting fined) Lots of cars where I was parked (legally) too and heaps of bike traffic and walkers which was great to see!

All in all, it was a lovely service and respectful gathering.

wildturkeycanoe said :

If they had enough buses to get people there, why weren’t the same number of buses used to get them back again?
It was my first ever dawn service and I was absolutely amazed at the ability of over 100k people to actually remain quiet so one could hear the reading of the letters. I for one am very proud of the attendees ability to remain so respectful for the duration of events. Well done Canberra, you showed the ANZACs that what they fought for was worth fighting for.

I agree, it was a beautiful service and the observation of silence of that many people was amazing.

Michelle Doherty said :

Masquara said :

Shane Rattenbury claims that the attendance estimate was 50,000 and that’s why he didn’t put enough buses on, stranding thousands of people.

I heard the same. I don’t think anyone expected 120,000. What tremendous support for Anzac100 and yes,it was a shame that people seemed to get mucked around by the lack of buses. A few people I chatted to didn’t seem to mind the wait. When you think of what our soldiers went through I guess a wait for a bus, pales in comparison. The people I chatted to were in good cheer. I think the sausage sizzles helped. But I agree it would have been frustrating for some. I parked a kilometer away and lugged my camera gear up there.

I know that I will get howled down for saying this but I think the 120,000 crowd is a lot more than were there.
That many people represents one third of the population of Canberra and take into account that it was a long weekend with school holidays still going (a lot of Canberrans were out of town is what I am saying).
It would take over 1,000 ACTION buses to move that many people.
ANZAC day is a personal commemoration for many people so we shouldn’t measure its “success” by the number of people that attend.

wildturkeycanoe said :

If they had enough buses to get people there, why weren’t the same number of buses used to get them back again?

Maybe because they could only persuade so may bus drivers to get up before 4am and work a double shift on the Public Holiday that everyone else was enjoying?

Better if they had all driven 120,000 cars to the service and parked around the War Memorial. Eh, wildturkeycanoe? 😉

wildturkeycanoe said :

If they had enough buses to get people there, why weren’t the same number of buses used to get them back again?

100 Action buses didn’t turn up and drop everyone off at the same time. There would of been massive line up for the bus to leave. With the huge attendance It would of took the 1st buses 1/2 an hour to get down Limestone Ave.

Masquara said :

Shane Rattenbury claims that the attendance estimate was 50,000 and that’s why he didn’t put enough buses on, stranding thousands of people.

I heard the same. I don’t think anyone expected 120,000. What tremendous support for Anzac100 and yes,it was a shame that people seemed to get mucked around by the lack of buses. A few people I chatted to didn’t seem to mind the wait. When you think of what our soldiers went through I guess a wait for a bus, pales in comparison. The people I chatted to were in good cheer. I think the sausage sizzles helped. But I agree it would have been frustrating for some. I parked a kilometer away and lugged my camera gear up there.

If they had enough buses to get people there, why weren’t the same number of buses used to get them back again?
It was my first ever dawn service and I was absolutely amazed at the ability of over 100k people to actually remain quiet so one could hear the reading of the letters. I for one am very proud of the attendees ability to remain so respectful for the duration of events. Well done Canberra, you showed the ANZACs that what they fought for was worth fighting for.

Shane Rattenbury claims that the attendance estimate was 50,000 and that’s why he didn’t put enough buses on, stranding thousands of people.