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Interest in forming an ACT Motorised Road Users Association?

By Impassive 24 August 2008 95

As a frustrated motorist who is tired of watching the Govt hand over money and resources to cyclists, I have come to accept that until motorists have a lobby group to compete with Pedal Power we will be treated as second class citizens by this government.

The sooner we have a body that represents the interests of the hundreds of thousands of motorists in the ACT and demonstrates to the Govt that there are more motorists than cyclists and that there are votes in making the lives of the motoring public easier, the better off we’ll be.

The Chief Minister says that traffic jams are to be expected – the insanity of what should be the second southbound lane of the GDE (Caswell Dr having been a 2 way road before the changes) being turned into a bike lane while traffic backs up to Ghungalin.. the inexplicable belief that it is better for the environment to have 20,000 cars idling in traffic while 10 cyclists whizz by..

All of this is the direct result of a very loud and effective lobby group organised by the ACT Cyclists. There are a whole lot of motoring organisations in the ACT and some folk driven to the point of forming a political party… I reckon a lobby group will have a better chance of getting things done..

What’s Your opinion?


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Interest in forming an ACT Motorised Road Users Association?
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BerraBoy68 7:28 am 01 Sep 08

But i ride my bike to work and drive my car (about 50/50).

Where do I fit into this party?

Pandy 11:41 pm 31 Aug 08

But if we bumped off all cyclists we could have 100% funding for motorists. Bring it on.

Horrid 11:17 pm 31 Aug 08

It’s outrageous that motorists only have 99% of road funding , with the remainder going to those spoilt selfish cyclists. The money spent on cycling so far this century could have paid for a hundred extra metres of the GDE, or about 100 extra car parking spaces. Those of the views expressed above should be banding together to make it clear that they want a reasonable share- that is 100% of the funding and 100% of the road space. Just because cyclists pay taxes does not mean that they should benefit from them.

lujabe 2:00 pm 30 Aug 08

What;s with the whole “us and them” attitude between many motorists and cyclists. Most cyclists (like myself) are also motorists.

The attitude being peddled by the original poster here seems to be that cyclists are campaigning to take facilities away from motorists, which is completely untrue. Cyclists are simply asking for facilities to be provided for them as well as for motorists: I don’t beleive that’s unreasonable – esecially as many motorists seem to consider cyclists shouldn’t be on ‘their’ part of the road.

Using the GDE as an example is ridiculous. The incrimental cost of the extra metre of bike lane would be barely measurable over the cost of the whole project. It is not a dual lane carriageway reduced to single lanes by the bike lanes. It is simply an example of poor design that was insufficent from day 1.

Rather than seeing each other as enemies competing for facilities, motorists and cyclists should be lobbying together to get the best result for everyone.

ant 11:55 am 28 Aug 08

Beat me to it, Loose Brown. Some of us realised you were VERY tongue in cheek, burlesquing the weird attitude of some drivers to cyclists.

Loose Brown 11:10 am 28 Aug 08

Yes Aeek – I was trolling.

I am actually an avid cyclist.

It was a stupid comment but I was trying to depict the mentality that is out there. What I find immensely frustrating is that when people have an us Vs them mentality it leads to dangerous outcomes for the most vulnerable of all road users – cyclists.

Motorbikes don’t seem to suffer from this ‘the cyclists’ tag. I’m not sure why cyclists cop it. I suspect it is because when a car drives up behind a bicycle it makes the driver nervous because they are mindful of not hitting them. To some people feeling a bit nervous makes them angry instead.

I don’t know the solution, but I have been to cities (in China) where all road users coexist quite happily. I suspect bicycle numbers will need to increase markedly in Canberra before car drivers will be able to relax. Whether this happens or we find another transport solution to our climate problems I am looking forward to seeing!

Aeek 7:10 pm 26 Aug 08

Loose Brown said :

Otherwise I will keep beeping at them, and swerving at them because they have no right to be there, slowing everything down.

Loose Brown, how does using the horn to intimidate and driving dangerously, thus proving that YOU should have no right to be driving on the road, help your argument. You are just making the cyclists feel superior.
Or were you trolling?

peterh 4:44 pm 26 Aug 08

Tixylix said :

Oh, so you don’t appreciate a non-sequiter? Strange, you’ve got a pretty good sidestep yourself.

So, if I can get back on track, neither your nor the poster have any idea what the figures are regarding the proportion of funding allocated towards roads vs cycling infrastructure, you’re asking me to do the math for a few kilometres of some road or other, Impassive is pulling figures out of his arse, a Mr Loose Brown (stool, I imagine) comes in yelling “they are taking all our taxes” and advocating psychopathy, and you are putting the onus on me to have some credibility.

Oh, and we all want the same thing! OFF-road cycle paths!

OMFG I love this place. Pity the spectators would have moved on by now.

So, budget for cycling infrasture for a financial year, is it more or less than the cost of a car park in Woden?

I sent you the link for the annual report. good luck finding the info, capital works seems to cover everything these days.

considering that back in 2000, the ACT government reported that $830k was being spent on all cycling programs, per annum, the cost of a car park that never, ever should have been built in woden recently (bring back a patch of grass and football) – as to how much, cannot see the figures for it at all. big waste of time and money, though.

rather it was kept as a green space in a rapidly growing concrete jungle.

Tixylix 4:21 pm 26 Aug 08

Oh, so you don’t appreciate a non-sequiter? Strange, you’ve got a pretty good sidestep yourself.

So, if I can get back on track, neither your nor the poster have any idea what the figures are regarding the proportion of funding allocated towards roads vs cycling infrastructure, you’re asking me to do the math for a few kilometres of some road or other, Impassive is pulling figures out of his arse, a Mr Loose Brown (stool, I imagine) comes in yelling “they are taking all our taxes” and advocating psychopathy, and you are putting the onus on me to have some credibility.

Oh, and we all want the same thing! OFF-road cycle paths!

OMFG I love this place. Pity the spectators would have moved on by now.

So, budget for cycling infrasture for a financial year, is it more or less than the cost of a car park in Woden?

peterh 3:55 pm 26 Aug 08

Snarky said :

peterh,

Again, thanks for the links and data previously – spent a very interesting lunchtime looking over it all.

A couple of points are curious. The TAC data you posted says:

On road New 2.5m wide on existing road (Assumming twin lanes, kerbed road), Including widening
TOTAL $165,000/km Based on Northbourne Avenue On Road Cycling

Correct me if I’m wrong, but Northbourne wasn’t widened at all, was it? I thought that’s why some motorists were getting their knickers knotted up – lanes were narrowed and speed limits lowered to accommodate the cycle lanes. Surely the Northbourne costs should have been based on the data immediately above (on road, no widening @$20K / km).

And for the GDE, given that there’s no kerb to move (like there would have been on Northbourne had they widened the road) then the cost should be similar to widening an existing path (the closest I found to adding a lane with no kerb involved) @$69K /km as you’ve already suggested. Looking at other data on the TAMS site suggests this is per side, so to do 1km of both sides of the road is $139K. The GDE is 16.6km long, so that gives (dives for calculator…) $2.3M, out of a total budget for the road of $116M (wikipedia)

Incidentally, the costs for a new cycle lane @$138K / km seem quite high, given that I found several reports from NSW councils apparently able to build full 2 lane roads for $160K / km. We must have very well engineered paths indeed!

agreed. I wanted to ensure that instead of throwing aspersions about the funding, we had actual figures. Considering that they were estimates, and that the value of the materials has either gone up or down based on the exchange rate, the estimates seemed to be a bit high.

The consideration for all these numbers that I find important, is that we don’t see the same figures reporting in the annual reports for TAMS, the figures appear to be lower.

So, which figures actually are correct? does the act government have accurate figures for the costs of both lane size changes down and up, and where are they? the budget doco tells us what they will spend, not what has been spent. the annual reports are not a nice read, and seem to be all over the place.

I read reports for work, particularly P&L’s, and the ones i have seen thus far make no sense at all. perhaps the rest of the allocated funds have gone under a sundry??

regardless of what the ACT government is reporting, the simple fact is that pedal power have had a remarkable success in lobbying the ACT government.
I don’t doubt that it was with a lot of hours and hard work, and i think that the OP wants to do the same for motorists. Personally, I feel that we already have representation from the NRMA, and a new group may not have the desired result.

Having shots at me “that’s a nice tie you’ve got” only reduce the impact of the poster. yes, I wear a tie, sometimes. I also ride a bike, a motorbike (when the wife is out), and i drive one of 2 cars. I enjoy posting, and I enjoy debate about things, but excuse me for throwing in outlandish ideas, I knew that the rego plate would get bites, and it did.

Tixylix 3:27 pm 26 Aug 08

Try this instead.

I don’t know what point you people are trying to make, you’ve lost me. What Duke said.

Snarky 3:24 pm 26 Aug 08

peterh,

Again, thanks for the links and data previously – spent a very interesting lunchtime looking over it all.

A couple of points are curious. The TAC data you posted says:

On road New 2.5m wide on existing road (Assumming twin lanes, kerbed road), Including widening
TOTAL $165,000/km Based on Northbourne Avenue On Road Cycling

Correct me if I’m wrong, but Northbourne wasn’t widened at all, was it? I thought that’s why some motorists were getting their knickers knotted up – lanes were narrowed and speed limits lowered to accommodate the cycle lanes. Surely the Northbourne costs should have been based on the data immediately above (on road, no widening @$20K / km).

And for the GDE, given that there’s no kerb to move (like there would have been on Northbourne had they widened the road) then the cost should be similar to widening an existing path (the closest I found to adding a lane with no kerb involved) @$69K /km as you’ve already suggested. Looking at other data on the TAMS site suggests this is per side, so to do 1km of both sides of the road is $139K. The GDE is 16.6km long, so that gives (dives for calculator…) $2.3M, out of a total budget for the road of $116M (wikipedia)

Incidentally, the costs for a new cycle lane @$138K / km seem quite high, given that I found several reports from NSW councils apparently able to build full 2 lane roads for $160K / km. We must have very well engineered paths indeed!

Loose Brown 3:15 pm 26 Aug 08

I aggree with Impassive – riders on roads are dangerous fullstop.

Why should I pay for their recuparation – medical expences – etc – etc when they are hit by a car that has the rite to be on the rode.

If this group can remove them then I am all for it.

Otherwise I will keep beeping at them, and swerving at them because they have no right to be there, slowing everything down.

And I agree with Peter – they are taking all our taxes it is unbeleveable.

Snarky 3:04 pm 26 Aug 08

Impassive,

3 paras of your OP of 4 involve bagging cyclists or their accommodation by the ACT government – but it’s a red herring? OK…

Just to clarify for me then:

– would you personally support your Motorists Group actively lobbying for MORE funding for off-road cycle lanes, as two of the only three supporters of your idea have mentioned so far?

– where is your evidence to support the assertion at #67 “I am not surprised to see that there are so many motorists who feel that they are not well represented or considered by our government.

peterh 2:52 pm 26 Aug 08

Tixylix said :

It just keeps on giving.

So, the GDE extension + legal battles, how much? And not the estimates this time please. Is it an official document or did you do the calculations in your head again?

Total roads expenditure, how much for the last financial year? It may help give some perspective to the topic of discussion.

And peterh, you keep quoting full posts and failing to address any part of them. That’s a nice tie you’ve got.

what the??

not wearing a tie today…

I was using the estimates as an example of the potential costings. the actual costings are buried in the budget doco. If you want to wade through them, go ahead.

I will pass on that.

here is the P&L for you to peruse at your leisure.

http://www.tams.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/69251/TAMS_Annual_Report_V1_Screen.pdf

if you have 5mb to spare…

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