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ISIS – Why, oh Why?

By John Hargreaves - 24 September 2014 66

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I was going to post a comment on the lack of advocacy for aged people in nursing homes but I will do that later this week. I have a bit of checking to do.

In the meantime, I was enraged to see and read the fatwa from ISIS. It is the scariest threat we have had to Australian security in my 62 years in this country.

But it didn’t need to be that way. Who were mentioned in the fatwa? Christians, that’s who! And Muslims who supported the Coalition of the Coercive!

There was no threat to Hindus, no threat to Shinto practitioners, no threat to Buddhists, no threat to communists. Yeah? Well murderers don’t ask if you are a Buddhist before thrusting a knife into you if you are a random victim as described in the fatwa. We are now all Australians and targets. Thanks Mr Abbott.

The countries who have been mentioned; Australia, Canada, France, Britain are countries who blindly follow the US into wars that have nothing to do with them.

Have they been invited to the Middle East? Are they part of a UN originated peace keeping force? NO! Will someone tell me what threat we were facing BEFORE committing to the conflict?

I predicted that the SAS would follow the air strikes which preceded the humanitarian drops. I also predicted the sending of a battalion of soldiers to the Middle East. This was confirmed by a US general only last week. They “may” need “on-ground assistance”. I now predict an upsurge in security measures, further breaches of our civil rights and a body bag count we don’t want.

If we had only kept out of this in the beginning, if only we had decided to be a model for cultural integration, if only we had been regional in our geo-political approach, we would not be in the mess we are right now.

We followed Britain into World War I, and II; we followed the US into Vietnam; we followed the US into Iraq in two Gulf wars. Why, oh why do we follow anyone into a war which is nothing to do with us?

We really don’t need this. We really don’t! And our multicultural society doesn’t need the hatred and suspicion that it breeds.

The soldiers we send are heroes. The politicians who send them are responsible for their deaths.

What’s Your opinion?


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66 Responses to
ISIS – Why, oh Why?
DamoH 4:28 pm 24 Sep 14

“Have they been invited to the Middle East?”

Only by the Iraqi government.

John Hargreaves Ex M 3:45 pm 24 Sep 14

chewy14 said :

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

And finally, before people accuse me of being too political, I am a life member of the ALP, a 15 year Member of the Legislative Assembly for the Labor Party and a 5 year Minister in said Government. I don’t want to be non partisan. But my right to express my views is sacrosanct. Those who don’t like it can suck it up or stay away from reading my posts.

Yes, you are totally free to openly admit your hypocrisy on any issue, but it completely wipes any credibility from your argument or points when you do so.

If you’re OK with that, then I guess I am too.

I don’t see any hypocrisy. show me. I have never waivered form this position since I saw the propaganda which convinced me that the Vietnam War was the right thing to do in the name of forward defence.

If I disagree with you, the conversation should be healthy not hypocrisy. At least I am honest about from where I come. Shame others are not.

dungfungus 12:43 pm 24 Sep 14

Rollersk8r said :

Small issue of Australians leaving the country to take up arms with ISIS. This is ok? Still none of our business? Come and go as you like?

Leaving Australia is fine by me – when they try to get back is when the problems start.
I guess the largely now unemployed asylum seeker lawyers will see the opportunity to rush to the High Court to enshrine the human rights of the returning jihadists by getting orders against the Commonwealth so they can re-enter Australia to spread their special sort of goodwill.

Ben_Dover 12:32 pm 24 Sep 14

Rollersk8r said :

Small issue of Australians leaving the country to take up arms with ISIS. This is ok? Still none of our business? Come and go as you like?

We should encourage more of them who support ISIS to go.

The we should strafe the place.

chewy14 12:16 pm 24 Sep 14

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

And finally, before people accuse me of being too political, I am a life member of the ALP, a 15 year Member of the Legislative Assembly for the Labor Party and a 5 year Minister in said Government. I don’t want to be non partisan. But my right to express my views is sacrosanct. Those who don’t like it can suck it up or stay away from reading my posts.

Yes, you are totally free to openly admit your hypocrisy on any issue, but it completely wipes any credibility from your argument or points when you do so.

If you’re OK with that, then I guess I am too.

Rollersk8r 12:07 pm 24 Sep 14

Small issue of Australians leaving the country to take up arms with ISIS. This is ok? Still none of our business? Come and go as you like?

Southmouth 11:53 am 24 Sep 14

I sympathize with the sentiment and would agree if it was 1975 or even 1985, however, at the very minimum we owe it to the world to at least try and round up the terrorists who were bred here.

John Hargreaves Ex M 11:24 am 24 Sep 14

pierce said :

neanderthalsis said :

So we should step back and watch the genocide from a safe distance? The hand wringing bleeding hearts are critical of us going to war, but would be equally critical if we did nothing.

I suspect that you’ll find that the “hand wringing bleeding hearts” (because clearly they all think and speak as one) are probably wondering why governments haven’t rushed in to deal with dozens of other incidents of genocide in recent decades. Rwanda, Cambodia and Sudan spring to mind. Boko Haram if you want a more recent one. If everything else can be treated as a regional issue, why not this?

It’s funny how everyone becomes a humanitarian when oil is involved.

Pierce How right you are? My issue is not that ISIL are not a bunch of psychopaths who are bent on a jihad. I agree that their behaviour is unacceptable.

Your point about not being involved in other genocidal issues is a good one. Boko Haram are just as fanatical. kidnapping 200 schoolgirls and threatening to rape them is heinous in anyone’s language. But did we send in warplanes and SAS to “teach” those opposing them?

I did see the reports of the “terrorist attack” on two police officers in Melbourne yesterday. But where is the proof that it was a terrorist attack? Do you believe that the shooting of that guy at Bondi cos he had a knife and looked middle Eastern was thwarting a terrorist attack? And an 800 strong force to capture one 18 year old? A bit OTT, methinks.

If the current Government had not taken a leaf out of the “embarrassed” (not contrite) John Howard, we would not have this stuff in our beloved country. Where is the threat to NZ? they have the good sense to stay away.

We are not the world’s policemen on human rights abuses, we are not even the deputy sheriff with a mandate to protect Christianity.

It may be too late now to prevent a 911 here but I know who I will be blaming for it!

And reiterating a previous stand. No… I don’t support sending our troops, airmen and sailors half way across the world to fight someone else’s war. What part of the Vietnam War don’t you get?

Incidentally, the Vietnamese don’t talk about the Vietnam War, they talk, about the American War.

And a Viet Cong ex soldier I spoke to told me, when I apologised for our presence, that the Vietnamese didn’t know we were there. We were too small a force for them to notice. So the 521 died for what? Not again in my name, it won’t.

And finally, before people accuse me of being too political, I am a life member of the ALP, a 15 year Member of the Legislative Assembly for the Labor Party and a 5 year Minister in said Government. I don’t want to be non partisan. But my right to express my views is sacrosanct. Those who don’t like it can suck it up or stay away from reading my posts.

John Hargreaves Ex M 11:11 am 24 Sep 14

chewy14 said :

So you don’t agree with the Labor party’s wholehearted support of this action either I take it?

Nope

Postalgeek 10:55 am 24 Sep 14

I guess we should be sending soldiers into Indonesia and the Philippines to hunt down Jemaah Islamiyah, which has killed more Australians than IS.

justsomeaussie 10:51 am 24 Sep 14

>We followed Britain into World War I, and II; we followed the US into Vietnam; we followed the US into Iraq in two Gulf wars. Why, oh why do we follow anyone into a war which is nothing to do with us?

Wow. What an ignorant comment. Moral beings have a duty to ensure that justice is served by those who oppose it.

We “blindly followed” or as correctly put, honoured our allegiances with other like minded countries to serve a greater good. A good beyond our shores.

Should we have sat back and allowed Hitler to take Europe or ISIS to slaughter the Kurds and Azeris?

John Hargreaves would prefer our leadership to have perfect hindsight; hindsight is of course looking out of your arse.

It’s easy to look back at the past and pick out the mistakes others have made with knowledge that you have today, instead of realising that leaders made decisions based on what they knew, their culture and values of the time.

John Hargreaves appears to think that we should be isolationists, just worrying about our own backyard when our neighbours are raping their children next door.

Australia is a part of a global community and we are respected in that community. Like all community members we are expected to chip in and help out when the going gets tough.

Not curl up into a ball and stuff our heads up our backsides and hope it doesn’t affect us.

pierce 10:18 am 24 Sep 14

neanderthalsis said :

So we should step back and watch the genocide from a safe distance? The hand wringing bleeding hearts are critical of us going to war, but would be equally critical if we did nothing.

I suspect that you’ll find that the “hand wringing bleeding hearts” (because clearly they all think and speak as one) are probably wondering why governments haven’t rushed in to deal with dozens of other incidents of genocide in recent decades. Rwanda, Cambodia and Sudan spring to mind. Boko Haram if you want a more recent one. If everything else can be treated as a regional issue, why not this?

It’s funny how everyone becomes a humanitarian when oil is involved.

dungfungus 10:09 am 24 Sep 14

Were you aware of terrorist attack on two police officers in Melbourne last night before this was posted?
If you weren’t, have you now changed your stance?
I mean, how much evidence do you need, ISAS is here in Australia, now. Expect bigger and nastier things.
It was brought to my attention yesterday that ISIS have modified the computer game Grand Theft Auto to include the methods ISAS want to use to kill us non-believers. I saw a trailer and it was very disturbing. Thanks to some well meaning people, the video trailer has now been expunged from YouTube.
This ISAS “game” has been globally distributed to young Muslims as an education tool.
Contrary to your assertion that we should not get involved, we already are and the politicians are addressing the situation correctly.

chewy14 9:28 am 24 Sep 14

So you don’t agree with the Labor party’s wholehearted support of this action either I take it?

neanderthalsis 9:00 am 24 Sep 14

So we should step back and watch the genocide from a safe distance? The hand wringing bleeding hearts are critical of us going to war, but would be equally critical if we did nothing.

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