Kambah student protest

Your school is closing. It sucks. Build a bridge.

Thumper – I’ve got a Snoopy picture version which may be your level. 😛

Look you all have obviously never heard the saying “Play the ball, not the man” I have done nothing wrong in this little saga…And how dare you question my intelligence by suggesting I could not understand Sun-Tzu….I believe in Kambah High and I Believe in Public Education.
I will continue to stand up for issues like these and people like you who have nothing better to do will not stop me with your childish critisism. Comments on this page including “That Johnathan guy should pull the stick out of his ass” and “Did not your mummy tell you to take out that blond streak” summarise the attitude put forward by the majority of bloggers on this site and that is usless petty comments I dont even expect from my peers and a lack of constructive critisism!

In hindsight, I should reserve my Sun-Tzu comments for people who can interpret them…

You would have my vote if the process wasn’t so transparently flawed. Remember my comment about replacement when you have served your purpose or wizen up – you may refer to it in hindsight.

PS We have discussed this before and I apoligise for the bad spelling….I spell quite well I just need to improve on my typing skills. LOL

Bubzie, Yes I do know who you are talkinmg about and NO she is not the one runnin this campaign…give me a little credit…please…..and school is what you make it Bubzie, if you are a shithead to your tachers, dont pay attention in class and come to school everyday wishing you were somewhere else…sure your not going to enjoy it…I on the other hand and my friends make the most out of the wonderful oppotunities we are offered at Kambah High. If you did not enjoy your time at Kambah…fine…..but it is your problem and you have know one to balme but yourself. And to others on this page…..I take your comment about the Facist party quite amusing….you are saying that but spending my time to represent the local community school is selfish and self absorbed (as most facists are) is extremely rude…but hey….i should look at it this way…if I run as the SOS Facist Party…I must have your vote…

Oh gosh…johno, johno, johno, what are we going to do with you..

First off.. For your infomation there is no “Leftie hairy armpit lezzo teacher” supporting this Hmm, i think you might know who i’m talking about here, she isnt a teacher (thank heavens..) but takes it into her own hands about stuff like this. (And her daughter has apparently spoke to..thousands of people. Dont tell me you dont know who it is..)

But anyway, there is a reason why kambah is closing, clearly enough you havent realized it..so keep your head out of the skies buddy!

(and heck, i went to kambah. And i speak better english compared to others on here that did, by the looks of it? lol)

Nyssa – I wish I could think of solution on the vandalism problem. I keep thinking of making parents pay security deposits and refunding them if the kid has not done deliberate damage. The interest could be used to pay for some of the untraceable damage. It’s nice, but it wouldn’t work because it would require people to pay and kids to realise that it was in their parents (and their own) long term interests to behave like a human.

Extracting fees would get us to vouchers. I suspect we’re heading there anyway, but it’s not a step to take carelessly.

You may well be right.

However the “myth” that public education should be free is no longer true. Especially when a school can use their entire year’s budget on vandalism in Term 1 (and yes I have seen it first hand).

I still believe there is inequity in ACT education funding but it won’t change until either fees are extracted from parents or the ACT Govt gives more to Govt education instead of taking it away.

Nyssa

You point to a minority and we’ve all seen them. Substantial income, big house, a couple of cars and a claimed ideological commitment that free education means their child should get the works for nix. Actually, they just don’t want to pay even the moderate sums required because it would mean thinking about their children.

But private schools get it too. There are tales of fee concessions for short-term crises that have been prolonged well after the crisis has passed because the parent did not bother to tell the school. Tales of woe that have been complete fabrications. An inability to pay even the basic fee at a systemic Catholic school that was somehow followed by overseas trips on finishing year 12.

Just a wonder, and I don’t know the answer. Are the private schools doing better in part because they are not supporting a bureaucratic infrastructure of dubious value to quite the same extent?

I must add though, that the cost of moving ACTDET from Manning Clark House (Tuggers) to 4-5 locations in the ACT is a joke. It’s money that should have gone to ACT Govt schools.

There was ample room in MCH. Especially when you’ve seen just how spacious they had it on the 3rd floor.

Just to visit two separate areas, you may have to go to Weston Creek and then Belconnen.

The reason Govt schools are in decline with parents also has to do with the abysmal management of EDUCATION funds by ACT and Federal Govts.

Parents are also led to believe that Non-Govt is better – when this should not be the case. They were informed of this through 2020 and also through the Federal Govts budget towards Govt education.

The fact that the parental contribution (of any kind) is voluntary is a joke. When I was in high school in the 90’s it was compulsory to pay for your food class or for art or for your maths textbook (loan for 4 yrs). Nowdays parents can’t be stuffed. Ironically those who don’t want to pay are the ones who are more likely able to afford it and when their child doesn’t get “the best”. They then remove the child/ren to a Non-Govt school and gladly pay fees!

It’s pathetic.

My suggestion would be that the ACT education people go to (a) a small sample of the community as a whole, (b) a bigger sample of those using the ACT government schools, (c) an almost 100% sample of those leaving the government school system, either at key points or generally and (d) lots of teachers. Ask them what they think should be delivered. Just a guess – it may include less costly blunt end bureaucracy, more academic streaming, tougher discipline, a zoo school for the ratbags, somewhere safe for those with educational disabilities and somewhere the seriously good will be challenged. Every thinking Canberra parent (government or nongovernment) believes his or her child is gifted – and almost all of them are wrong. Few of them think their child is a disruptive clown, and a lot of them are wrong too.

Everyone wants a good public education system. We have one that costs enough to be better than it is. Adding in the Commonwealth and ACT contributions and parental fees (in the nongovernment system), it probably costs as much or more per student as the run of the mill nongovernment (ie Catholic and generic) sector. But the latter are doing better at attracting users, despite the fact that a substantial point of their funding comes from the parents (who must also pay Commonwealth and ACT taxes and charges that overall go rather more to the schools they don’t use than to those they do). Not all of these people are lunatics, and not many of them have the cockeyed social expectations that lead a person to think that St Cod-Ordinary’s is better in terms of aspirations than Run of the Mill Public School. They are leaving because they have made a difficult decision. Almost by definition, they will be more engaged at a private school because (a) they’re paying for it and (b) it’s expected.

To make it easier for them to stay in the government system, the government system needs to ask for feedback in a genuine way and accept it with humility. (I recall an agency I did some work with that was doing a lovely job of producing its work. The courts and the auditors praised the precision of its decisions. But its clients, who were overall supportive, were fed up with slow decisions that took twenty pages of carefully nuanced prose of which the second last page contained the only useful bit. The agency asked, learned and sent out much quicker and simpler decisions, with more detail for those who asked for it. Everyone won, but the agency had to be humble about saying it could have done better). It is, with great respect, silly to remove money from a system that, despite disincentives, is working at attracting students so that a failing system can fail more spectacularly with more money.

simbo, you have an excellent point there.

VicePope, when parents ask for a gifted and talented program, or the best in ICT, it all comes down to money and time.

Now, Govt schools in the ACT aren’t flush with money.

I’d like to see a better distribution of funding for starters.

As for a principal or teachers believing they have failed in Pastoral Care for disruptive students etc, it doesn’t always happen.

Some can’t wait to palm the kids off to the local Govt HS. The number of ex-Non-Govt students I have taught in the past few years is over 20. Of those 20, only 2 were (if we were to classify them) “good” students. The rest were there because they had no where else to go and their behaviour, even after moving, demonstrated why they were thrown out.

Vicepope, you’re pointing at exactly the problem. Students in Non-government schools already have parents invested in their education. Students at Government schools may very well not.

And, in pretty much every case, a kid whose parents are invested in his education is going to do better than a similarly-abilitied kid whose parents aren’t.

A government system HAS to take on those who nobody else cares about. A non-government one doesn’t. And won’t.

Nyssa – I agree with so much that you say. The ACT government school system would do better if it could rid itself of the dopes. But I have to say that I am not aware of nongovernment schools unloading their rubbish onto the government sector. The nongovernment teachers that I know (and their principals) would see that as a failure of their pastoral care of the child. A student with a behaviour problem at one nongovernment school I know will get the same message in stereo, because the school insists on getting the parents in to support change.

But, I would argue, it would do even better if it took the step of asking the punters what they want and being prepared to deliver it. This can be a humbling experience, and I know from other government agencies that it is sometimes less than pleasant. Some people want religion. Some want discipline or a more than usually academic offering from the school. Or humanities. Or lots of science/maths. An ACT government system run by people with the humility to listen would probably bring the students back, but I doubt that will happen.

That may be the case, however, when you have one system able to turn away disruptive/anti-social/violent students and another “forced” into taking them, what else will people think?

As a parent I would be concerned about my children’s safety at school. My eldest goes to a high school I once worked at, away from the local high school as it has a bad rep (and yes I have worked there too).

Could have sent her to the local Non-Govt school (and yes she was accepted as her father wanted her in that school) however, I realised that it was the same curriculum and that she would do well no matter what. It’s called being an involved parent (but not to the point of smothering).

Her school has a 70% non-PEA student body. What does this say about her Govt school?

When monies are tied to performance, but you need money to provide the best to achieve said performance requirements, you run the risk of a circular argument.

The Non-Govt sector does the same as the Govt sector in attempting to attract students. As I said earlier, 2020 was poorly released in the major enrolment period for both sectors. The scare factor alone would have seen parents walking into the local Non-Govt school instead.

Govt education is a last resort for those expelled from Non-Govt schools. Funny how people forget that. Those same students then cause havoc in Govt schools and yet the school is powerless to get rid of them, unless they move out of area.

The reality is Govt schools should be getting the majority of Govt funding. That’s what they were created for, to stop religion having a huge impact in education.

Now, had several Non-Govt schools been targeted for closure under 2020, I wonder how many would have stayed open…most likely all of them because they would have screamed discrimination.

Sad thing is, they are the most discriminate of the two sectors. Or are we lying to ourselves that parents view Non-Govt schools as the “best” system to get their children into University and/or a better social structure?

ps to the previous. To return to the Kambah imbroglio, which is where this started, the reason for the closure is that students seem to be falling away faster than elsewhere within a system that (as Nyssa notes) is heading to minority status. An earlier poster noted that Kambah High has had size problems for a long time – I wouldn’t know about that.

When a school gets smaller, its problems become self-perpetuating and self-exacerbating. It hasn’t got a sizeable body of students, parents and teachers who can sell the rest of the community a good message about it. It loses the capacity to offer the range of subjects that might attract more students. At some point, the plug has to be pulled.

The reason non-government schools aren’t closing generally (although they do, especially in rural areas) is that their numbers are increasing.

Schmerica and Nyssa

When I looked at this, initially, I crunched through annual report statistics and did some maths. Then I found there was a Productivity Commission annual report on Government Services, which is on .gov.au bit of the web somewhere. (And there’s a veritable trolley load of media reports on the same subject). Schools aren’t the only problem – the ACT seems better at doing hospital clerical work than delivering medical services to patients. But our school costs (especially for an almost completely urban region with moderate diversity in needs) are rather high by comparison with the states.

Thinking public education is a Good Thing is fine and good luck to you if it makes you feel better. But it costs a bomb and, as Nyssa notes, people are walking away from it in droves. There’s a reason for that, and it’s not down to anything other than things like engagement between families and schools and the creation of some (compelled) respect. If I had to do the impossible, and sum the problem up in a few words, I would say that it is that the ACT government system is offering the equivalent of 2CA to people who want either JJJ or RN. If the system wants to compete, it’s got to change, and it cannot just (a) put everything down to a lack of money (spend smarter, not more, (b) blame the nongovernment sector for doing better at attracting students and (c) watch itself turn into a last resort marginal offering for the children whose parents cannot afford any private option or who don’t care at all.

On a thread a few weeks ago, someone (not me) noted that what was happening with ACT government schools was like people turning down free cars and spending their hard-earned instead. When something is free, and people prefer to pay for something else, a smart government would start to worry that it’s not offering what people want.

VicePope, when there is MAJOR uncertainty (like last year) of course parents are going to enrol their children in the local Non-Govt school – it’s close to home and most of their friends were to be enrolled there as well.

schmerica is right and I too would like to know where you got that little tid-bit from.

As you would know, the ACT is slightly different to the percentages of Govt vs. Non-Govt students nationwide.

Perhaps this is due to the severe mismanagement of ACT Education by consecutive governments. Then again, it could also be due to the current Federal Govt’s agenda to destroy public education.

I do believe that by 2020 there will be more kids in Non-Govt schools than Govt. I mean when it all comes down to it, Non-Govt schools scored free publicity right in the middle of the crucial enrolment period for 2007 and with more closures still to come, the local Non-Govt schools in those areas must be wringing their hands with glee.

The only way to actually tell if Non-Govt is “better” is to force them to keep all students who apply, regardless of anti-social behaviour/violence. Only then will we see just how “good” they are.

Govt schools are for all students. Non-Govt are for those who are 1) the same denomination , 2) of good moral character and 3) have parents who are willing to pay through the nose for the same education their child could receive in a Govt school, but without the “low lifes”.

Govt education is “pricy” because the ACT Government wait until the school is close to demolition before undertaking any viable works – remember Watson High? It was cleared of asbestos and then closed. Now we have two high schools near that area that are either at breaking point (student numbers) or damn close to it.

I’m sure the kids of Higgins/Holt/Cook PS and so on, as well as Kambah HS, will be so thankful that their schools are closing. I mean they are in desperate need of maintenance but moving to another school would sort that problem out immediately.

I wonder why no Non-Govt schools were scheduled for closing. Perhaps it was due to the fact that they put their hands out for Govt money, as well as mooch off the parents, and then continue to build. Or don’t you know about the building fund that is attached to EVERY Non-Govt students’ fees?

Govt schools need more money; they deserve more money as they have to cater for the entire community, not just a few. 2020 was the biggest farce with the highest damage to Govt education. I’m sure John Howard was most envious that he hadn’t thought of it first, image the money he’d save by closing down many more Govt schools.

By comparison, the government system is over-subsidised for the number using it.

I haven’t read that anywhere lately, where did you find that little gem of information?

Nyssa – we’ve had this one before. Do the maths, and divvy up what each of us is paying for the ACT government schools. Accept that it’s pricy to provide, and that it’s still a product from which the punters are walking away to services of variable quality and variable (but significant) cost. (The same can be said for the buses where there’s a pretty good service that most people never go near). If the punters vote with their feet, then stop pouring money down the drain.

There are some good government schools with great facilities and very many good teachers (of whom I’m sure you are one). The long term answer may be fewer (and well-resourced) government schools and more of the subsidy going with the students – ie, out of the ACT system unless and until people show they want it.

There is a great range of type and quality in the non-government system. They recfeive some Commonwealth funding and, generally, a derisory amount from the ACT. By comparison, the government system is over-subsidised for the number using it. It would make far more sense to let the dollars walk out with the kids so that whatever schools they went to would be able to be as well-funded and equipped as the government schools.

The ACT government school system, like the public transport system, is an expensive dud that no-one with a choice uses.

I take real issue with that statement.

Choices? Well if it were my choice, the schools would have more funding and more students, especially if the money tree to Non-Govt was pruned severely.

There are some pathetic excuses for schools in Non-Govt education but no one says much about it as they believe that Govt schools are the only ones accountable to the taxpayer.

When Non-Govt schools kick out violent and disruptive students – where do they go to? Where are they “counselled” to go?

Kambah will be rebuilt, but it will damage the student numbers in the surrounding schools which gladly opened their doors post 2020 to take these students in – irrespective of their parents financial background. After all, that’s what Govt schools do – they take anyone.

It’s closing. There’s a whole lot of good reasons for that, all of which have been chewed over exhaustively. The ACT government school system, like the public transport system, is an expensive dud that no-one with a choice uses. If it closed up, or was taken over by someone with a clue, the competent teachers and the good things would survive. Get over it.

(PS – I am inclined to agree with those who think young Jonathan may have been lured into his role by those who should know better and that a school strike is silly but, whether or not that is the case, a blog full of reasonably savvy adults should not be used to monster a teenager. The most likely result is that Jonathan, and other kids who want to say something, will feel put down and be less inclined to participate in public debate).

el and some believe that “from the ashes the phoenix will rise”. I am of course, referring to the closing and then opening of the Kambah K-10 school that is planned.

I wonder if any impact statement has been undertaken as to the affect of this school reopening on the other schools in the area that will, as of the end of this year, take on those students from the Kambah area.

That would leave the blame with, ooh, Johnno and his dickhead parents!

What’s all the fuss about? Kambah High School has had the reputation of being the absolute worst secondary school in south Canberra for YEARS.

I’ll give you the hint – it’s got nothing to do with the teachers or support staff.

I have some excuse about my spelling and grammar…im still in school and I have time to learn…you left years ago.

No you have no excuse. Besides, don’t you know about the concept of “Lifelong Learning”? Learning doesn’t stop once you leave school.

My problem with your posts is that you come onto a public forum and post dribble. Yes you may have a point but if you want to be the “public” face of Kambah HS, you need to learn to communicate with clarity.

If you are the only one “doing the job” then what does that mean? It could mean that no one gives a stuff or that people do care but can’t be bothered.

I’d also like to let you know that I was (and still am) one of the most venehment objectors to 2020 on RA.

Knock ’em dead, Johnno!

For your infomation there is no “Leftie hairy armpit lezzo teacher” supporting this. All teachers have withdrawn ANY support for my work. I find it patronising you would suggest that I am being manipulated..I am not a Idiot and I would never allow someone to treat me like that.
I do a job…I am the only one doing it….And I try to do it to the best of my ability. I appreciate your concern but I will handle the fight myself. Thanks

err, something like this is meant to be http://www.zeus-publications.com/gender_war.htm – apologies for the 3 in a row

johnnodavis, my heart really goes out to you. I understand that you are truly passionate about your school, but you must at least be informed that you are being manipulated worse than one of Jim Hensons Muppets.

You may pass my commentary onto your leftie hairy armpitted lezzo teacher who is really driving this agenda as well.

1. Go read Sun Tzu. She would prefer if you didn’t even KNOW about the book, once read, you will know why.

If you want to get extra fancy – read something like this

2. Search this site for ‘SGS’ and replace ‘SGS’ with your name, take all of the advice on board. It does not pertain to you, yet it does.

3. Once suitably armed, reconsider your position as if you are on a battlefield. Who is behind you, who are you facing ?

Tell your leftie hairy armpitted lezzo teacher who is really driving this agenda that it is her that should be in front of you, not you in front of her. This is one of the secrets to survivability learnt from many battles, human shields are the most effective unless it is you who is the human shield.

She will decline your offer, and you will be subtly replaced by another eager beaver.

Welcome to the school of hard knocks.

TAGLINE:

your grammar and spelling are appauling Comment by johnnodavis (Kambah wing of the SOS Facist Party) — 24 May, 2007

I have some excuse about my spelling and grammar…im still in school and I have time to learn…you left years ago…and while you insist on changing the subject this debate is about the right of the Kambah Community to have the local school they have enjoyed for years.

I am a passionate supporter of local school while still respecting the need for SOME school closures (meaning 4 or 5 primary schools).

And my critisism goes to those people especially who thought it appropriate to comment on my personal apperance. That persons maturity is astonsishing!!! There is no stick up my ass for the record…I jsu see an injustice and feel obligated to stand up for the people of Canberra.

I miss Caz and Hack on TSSH. They would have toyed with this tard for days

Actually, the English teacher in me wants to say this:

1) dont is actually spelt don’t
2) appauling is spelt appalling
3) “just thought since” – go to the back of the class your grammar is wrong. It should read “I just thought that since”

Now just to clarify, it’s 6:35pm and I’ve just arrived home to read your dribble.

I suggest that in the time you have left at Kambah you actually pay more attention in English. Your own spelling and grammar is lacking.

As for being 15 and telling everyone else to grow up, your little “tantie” only proved your infantile argument has no substance. In order to get your point across you don’t start by slagging off people.

Lesson over.

You spelt ‘Obligated’ and ‘chat’ wrong. Thumbs up for effort though 🙂

Hey,
Just thought since I was sooo popular on this page it would be wrong of me not to add my 2 cents. First of all let me begin by saying you are all probably writing to this site while sitting on your ever-widening rear ends from a low level public servants desk. I will have you all know that Kambah High is a great school with a dedicated staff. Do us a favor Sethmaster 2000, dont tell anyone that you attended KHS because your grammar and spelling are appauling. You are probably one of the kids who sat at the back of the class distracting everyone else who was there to learn. I find it ironic that I am only 15 and I am obligatd to tell all of you to GROW UP! While I would love to stay and caht I have a job to do protecting a great school…besides you are all probably late to a Labor Party branch meeting!!

I say good on them! The government goes on about how it wants us kids/teens to get a good education etc. and then they close down our schools, I think it was good that they did it inside school hours, they’re trying to get a message across.

Well i know this is late and i didnt actualy see the broadcast. This is the first iv heard about the plan, but and a ex-kambah student i have to say that the whole thing seems kind of a joke.
First of all when i left the population was tiny by those days standards and from what i hear is even smaller today.
It makes sense to close a school like that because it was designed for the 1970’s and is not right for todays students.
Plus its a crap school alround and if i was there i would show those kids what i think of them.
I think i saw that jonno dude on the ABC a couple of weeks ago and what an emmbarasment! honestly he says he wants to be a poli but trust me mate you’ll probably end up working at maccas till your 25 then go off to some office job in tuggeranong! I was lucky that i got out of Kambah and managed to start my dream carrer but there were people like that in my year and they turned out to be the biggest losers at out ten year reunion.

Yes thats right! i hate those kids! the Jonathon guy needs to pull that stick out of his ass because i doubt he would know what to do with 4 million dollars. A word of advice kids and Jonathon. GROW UP! why didn’t your mummy tell you to take out that blond streek?

yeah, sort of..i think i was standing behind him when someone interviewed him. lol.

And i’ll show him this site on monday..thanks guys anyway!

Did you hear his piece to camera Bubzie?

anyway good luck.

thank you seepi!!

Well, i do go to kambah, and i freezed my ass off. and the kid who organised it..he didnt say half that shit. and we were thinking of having a protest after school soon.

and yes, i’ll show them this thread. And i’ve got ideas about the 500 people outside stanhopes place..it does sound like a good idea 🙂

“he protest did achieve good media” What was good about it Seepi? They across as a bunch of losers. I was at our local Save Our Schools meeting last night for our primary school and any thought of standing around like idiots waving banners was rejected immediately, the meeting preferred to put together a watertight case against closure.

They did something stupid, and we’ve called them on it. Yes, they’re only aged 12-15, but if you do something stupid in your youth and people tell you it’s stupid, possibly you’ll learn from it.

Or else they’ll freeze their nads off. And that’ll stop ’em breeding. Which is good for the nation too…

You guys are harsh.
The students are aged 12-15 – they are not trained media professionals.
the protest did achieve good media, which can only help to keep the school closures top-of-mind – part of teh aim of any protest.
And they did stand outside on the morning when it happened to be -5 degrees.
And Canberra media is minimal on weekends.

protesting on the weekend means that local media are unable to cover it.

They’re only copying the teachers – why didnt the teachers assemble outside Stanhope’s place at 6am on a weekend? (where does he live btw?) when they were demanding more money.

does protesting really do anything other than polarise….

I personally that it does nothing….

i saw this on the news last night.

i think it should be renamed ‘bogan training college’.

Uh, yes? The demographic of the catchment area for KHS isn’t really one that I’d say is amenable to weekend protests. I haven’t paid much too much attention to the aspect of IR legislation that controls when a group of employees can take time to organise a protest, but wouldn’t something similar be in place for students? What better time for a large group of 11-16 year old students to organise a protest than during school hours?

When I was in highschool I was mostly playing sport on the weekend.

“Making moronic statements in public as part of a weird media stunt makes you remarkably easy to ignore.”

I was at TPHS in 1995 when the French commenced testing of nuclear devices at the Mururoa atoll. There were student protests / class boycotts for a number of weeks. We had the good fortune of having the French ambassador’s daughter as a classmate. The protests were a stunt but it was an efficient one.

Students of that age are generally without the tools or knowledge to protest in any other form. Rather than cynically condemning it prima facie, why not attempt to suggest more effective / palatable means of protest…

This (and my previous comments about the same subject) is not intended to say that I don’t support people attempting to fight school closures. I do.

But you have to pick methods that are going to work. Making moronic statements in public as part of a weird media stunt makes you remarkably easy to ignore. Make a sensible argument, prove that it’s more than just a “let’s avoid maths today” exercise, and then we’ll listen. Until then, you’ve made yourself dismissable.