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Light Globes. Saving the Planet or Making Profits?

By Hatter64 13 July 2013 70

I recently installed a number of the new Compact Fluorescent Lamps (CFL). These were brought in some time ago as a mandatory replacement for those energy wasting and cheap incandescent bulbs. Now I’m not armed with the necessary information to know whether the overall impact on the planet is good or bad, so I’ll stick with what I do know. Price.

A US newspaper recently advertised CFL globes at $0.79 for a pack of 4 13W. The last price our family paid here in Canberra was $7.00 for a single non-dimmable globe.

Before I hear the old cliche “economies of scale” etc it’s worth noting that the globes we buy come out of mainland china. Presumably the same or similar factories that supply the US.

Other ponderings wrt incandescent globes: Cost and energy to manufacture; slow to come to full brightness; Safe disposal? that white powder inside the globes can’t be good even if being cut by the glass were considered “safe”.

I’m sure the powers that be did all the appropriate research and are only looking out for our best interests; the riches that flow from the decision are simply a side-effect.

Are we perhaps being ripped-off? Not just in price but in other ways.

If I get up the ‘energy’ I’ll do some more research. It’ll just have to wait a few minutes until this globe starts up.  🙂

What’s Your opinion?


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70 Responses to
Light Globes. Saving the Planet or Making Profits?
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davo101 9:24 am 17 Jul 13

CraigT said :

breda said :

let me refer you to the excellent post by Willis Eschenbach at WUWT about why this is a total crock:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/03/31/the-epas-mercurial-madness/

Lol.
I think that’s what you call an own-goal.

No, it’s what you call unconditional surrender.

CraigT 9:08 pm 16 Jul 13

breda said :

let me refer you to the excellent post by Willis Eschenbach at WUWT about why this is a total crock:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/03/31/the-epas-mercurial-madness/

Lol.
I think that’s what you call an own-goal.

Willis Eschenbach is a crank, and WUWT is a crank blog run by a uni drop-out who became a TV weathergirl and now thinks all the scientists in the world are wrong about almost anyting unless they are all actively particapating in some sort of conspiracy to falsify all the world’s thermometers. Or something. Watt’s opinions are so demented it’s pretty hard to figure out what he’s talking about half the time.

c_c™ 6:10 pm 16 Jul 13

IrishPete said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

IrishPete said :

incidentally, I get a lot of radio interference from LED bulbs, and some CFLs too. Annoying.

IP

Every time we turn on a light in our house, the TV signal gets scrambled/pixelated for a few seconds. Nothing else electrical in our house does this. I’ve spoken to some sales reps about this but none have said they’ve heard of it before. Is this what you are experiencing? Never happened in our old house, which had halogen downlights, standard 36W fluoresent tubes and LED spots. Appears to be just the CFLs doing it.

No, the interference is continuous. Doesn’t bother my TV, although I am not actually watching the TV when I turn on the kitchen LED lights so probably wouldn’t notice a couple of seconds of interference. There is definitely no ongoing TV interference.

I do have very marginal radio reception where I live – the LEDs tip it over the edge into unlistenable.

IP

That’s interesting that the old 36w fluros didn’t do anything, they’re a bit notorious for EM interference (hence at radio sensitive buildings, they used incandescent traditionally)

EM interference is a thing with LED globes. They carry the usual sort of warning you see about keeping them away from medical devices, tvs and radios (as you do with induction cookers, mobile phones, microwaves). Can’t say I’ve ever had an issue with LEDs causing interference (which is a good thing since the speakers I use seem particularly sensitive to EM noise.)

IrishPete 5:54 pm 16 Jul 13

wildturkeycanoe said :

IrishPete said :

incidentally, I get a lot of radio interference from LED bulbs, and some CFLs too. Annoying.

IP

Every time we turn on a light in our house, the TV signal gets scrambled/pixelated for a few seconds. Nothing else electrical in our house does this. I’ve spoken to some sales reps about this but none have said they’ve heard of it before. Is this what you are experiencing? Never happened in our old house, which had halogen downlights, standard 36W fluoresent tubes and LED spots. Appears to be just the CFLs doing it.

No, the interference is continuous. Doesn’t bother my TV, although I am not actually watching the TV when I turn on the kitchen LED lights so probably wouldn’t notice a couple of seconds of interference. There is definitely no ongoing TV interference.

I do have very marginal radio reception where I live – the LEDs tip it over the edge into unlistenable.

IP

WoodenAgent 5:35 pm 16 Jul 13

OLydia said :

(…) LEDs are far superior.

(…) LEDs also use less watts per lumen (…)

For more info see here: http://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/guide_to_energy_efficient_lighting.pdf

Really glad to see such good advice.

Until LEDs, manufacturers could hoodwink us with terms like ‘watts-equivalent’, rather than actually measuring the amount of light that a bulb produced, and telling us.

Secondly, LEDs differ a lot. Cheap ones produce about 50 Lumens per watt, but good ones produce about 100 Lumens per watt. This means you really cannot use “watts-equivalent”.

Southside Lighting has a test bench for MR16 and GU10 globes, so you can compare light produced, rather than manufacturer’s propaganda.

Remember, Lumens for Light, Watts for Heat.

dungfungus 5:20 pm 16 Jul 13

breda said :

pags – just like in your previous post where you conflated different kinds of bulbs, here you go again about “mercury”.

25kgs (over 50 pounds, in old money) of pure mercury emitted from crematoriums? Given the price of pure mercury, it would be worth putting in a filter to catch it. Unfortunately, the website you cited has no capacity to search under a keyword like “mercury” – so why are you so shy about linking directly to the page you are referring to?

And, your statement that there is no discernable mercury coming from landfills (with the same unfindable source) means nothing. Why should mercury, an inert substance, emit from landfills?

As for the nonsense about coal-fired plants and mercury, let me refer you to the excellent post by Willis Eschenbach at WUWT about why this is a total crock:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/03/31/the-epas-mercurial-madness/

A few highlights:

– mercury is an element which appears in varying degrees in the natural environment;

– the biggest emitter of mercury is the sea;

– there is zero evidence of mercury levels being affected by coal-fired power stations.

Of course, mercury compounds hanging above us every day in our homes is nowhere near as evil as crematoriums (Godwin’s law prevents me from going any further on analysing this bizarre train of thought) and the amalgam tooth fillings which coincided with significant increases in the life expectancy of recipients.

Junk science rools, OK?

“25kgs (over 50 pounds, in old money) of pure mercury………”

Gee, the averages must have spiked when Freddie was cremated.

gazket 5:18 pm 16 Jul 13

according to wikki the longest running light bulb is 110 years old. I’d say that’s very efficient and kicks fluro and cfl butt.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd 5:11 pm 16 Jul 13

c_c™ said :

IrishPete said :

incidentally, I get a lot of radio interference from LED bulbs, and some CFLs too. Annoying.

IP

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

c_c™ said :

JC said :

I have some Philips MASTER MR16 (low voltage downlight replacments) that are dimmable using standard dimmers, in my case I have leading edge c-bus. Sure due to the current issues you mentioned I need two in the circuit for them to work, and their dim range is not linear like incandescents, in particular below about 20%, but they do work and work well for what they are. I have these in the hall because I don’t like the light they produce, I find that for reading there is a noticeable strobe effect and the colour is a tad cold.

Yeah, I guess I was over simplifying – point was there are no B22 LED globes on the market (that I’ve seen in Australia) that consumers just pick up and replace a dimmable CFL or energy saver halogen with easily.

All LEDs can be dimmable if they’re wired so that the load on the dimmer is above the minimum threshold the dimmer needs to operate, i.e putting more than one globe on the switch.

I am aware of a product called the Master LED D 12-60 which is from Phillips, a B22 globe that is dimmable by itself on a switch, but I’ve not seen it available anywhere and even Phillips themselves only market it to commercial customers and specifiers, it doesn’t even appear on their consumer materials. I’d buy a box of them tommorow if I could.

https://www.meethue.com/en-US

Those globes themselves dim internally, but they’re not compatible with an external dimmer (which I have on most switches and would need to have removed then).

YES SO GET RID OF THEM.

Ugly and old tech.

wildturkeycanoe 4:41 pm 16 Jul 13

IrishPete said :

incidentally, I get a lot of radio interference from LED bulbs, and some CFLs too. Annoying.

IP

Every time we turn on a light in our house, the TV signal gets scrambled/pixelated for a few seconds. Nothing else electrical in our house does this. I’ve spoken to some sales reps about this but none have said they’ve heard of it before. Is this what you are experiencing? Never happened in our old house, which had halogen downlights, standard 36W fluoresent tubes and LED spots. Appears to be just the CFLs doing it.

davo101 4:31 pm 16 Jul 13

breda said :

25kgs (over 50 pounds, in old money) of pure mercury emitted from crematoriums? Given the price of pure mercury, it would be worth putting in a filter to catch it..

It’s not emitted in a pure form and no it’s not worth collecting it to make money.

breda said :

Why should mercury, an inert substance, emit from landfills?

Mercury is an inert substance? It might not be very reactive but it certainly is not inert.

breda said :

As for the nonsense about coal-fired plants and mercury, let me refer you to the excellent post by Willis Eschenbach at WUWT

Arooga, arooga, bullshit dead ahead.

breda said :

– the biggest emitter of mercury is the sea;

Of which 60% is due to all of the mercury we’ve dumped into the environment.

breda said :

– there is zero evidence of mercury levels being affected by coal-fired power stations.

Apart from direct measurement of the stack gases that is.

breda said :

Junk science rools, OK?

Well, you’re clearly a fan.

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