Light rail development application approved

Re ‘significant work’ on Tharwa Drive, it was remedial work after it was discovered the road would collapse if they tried to put in pipes underneath (having been built shoddily in the first place). The pipes were, ironically, for the ‘new’ emergency services building Which was really only replacing previous services that had passed their use by date (eg calwell ambulance). No net gain for Tuggeranong there, and the location of the new building is highly questionable, for example if there is a bushfire.
It would be nice if Lanyon was more of a public transport focus, being the ‘other’ far flung area of Canberra.

It’s disingenuous to expect obesity to go down simply because of public transport use. Most obesity / type II Diabetes these days is a result of the stupidity of nutritionists who since the 1970s pushed a ‘less fat and protein, more carbs’ message.
I personally was borderline Type II but this completely resolved after switching permanently (on doctor’s advice) to higher protein, good fats and minimal carbs. No extra exercise or public transport use was required!
I therefore call the obesity aspect as totally irrelevant to the light rail debate.

rommeldog56 said :

dungfungus said :

Something rubaiyat and the Capital Metro Agency should study closely:
https://www.minnpost.com/cityscape/2016/01/psychology-light-rail-safety

Hmmmm…..something that the “artists impressions” of the tram don’t show.

I’ve seen many pedestrians cut across one side of Northborne Ave to the other – across the currently vacant wide medium strip.

Post tram, as a safety issue, I assume that there will be some sort of fence alongside both sides of the tram track to prevent pedestrian access across the Northborne Ave medium strip ???

Not all pedestrians can be expected to walk to the lights at the nearest intersection to cross more safely.

Post tram , will there be regular pedestrian under passes/over passes across Northborne Ave – other than those which will be provided at the 3 tram stops between Dickson and Civic ????

I feel another vision coming on, rainbow coloured pedestrian crossings to levitate people safely across Northbourne Avenue.
They will probably also put in those ugly Armco barriers (like the ones on the median strip outside TCH). These will compliment the ugly rails, stanchions, substations and overhead wires. There will be more concrete and steel than grass and trees, that is for sure.
Speaking of artists’ impressions I see the one in this thread still shows the “trolley bus” two wire catenary.
Is the agency running this light rail side show really serious about what they propose to give us?
Damien, where are you on this?

dungfungus said :

Something rubaiyat and the Capital Metro Agency should study closely:
https://www.minnpost.com/cityscape/2016/01/psychology-light-rail-safety

Hmmmm…..something that the “artists impressions” of the tram don’t show.

I’ve seen many pedestrians cut across one side of Northborne Ave to the other – across the currently vacant wide medium strip.

Post tram, as a safety issue, I assume that there will be some sort of fence alongside both sides of the tram track to prevent pedestrian access across the Northborne Ave medium strip ???

Not all pedestrians can be expected to walk to the lights at the nearest intersection to cross more safely.

Post tram , will there be regular pedestrian under passes/over passes across Northborne Ave – other than those which will be provided at the 3 tram stops between Dickson and Civic ????

Something rubaiyat and the Capital Metro Agency should study closely:
https://www.minnpost.com/cityscape/2016/01/psychology-light-rail-safety

The following was spotted in today’s Sourceable Industry News and Analysis (Melbourne):
“In the ACT, there’s $52 million allocated to progress Stage 1 of the Capital Metro Light Rail Project, for which the successful consortium for delivery and operation is likely to be awarded early next year. The City to the Lake project is also progressing following submission of a Works Application to the NCA for the West Basin Waterfront.”
Well, that’s news to me and probably a lot of other Canberrans also.

rubaiyat said :

We don’t need Public Transport, we have Uber!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-02/uber-price-surges-on-new-years-eve-spark-criticism/7064530

I noted the attached Twit from:

“Michael Bell @Xtrackka
Is the “problem” with Uber surge pricing the fact that people a) can’t read, b) can’t do arithmetic, or c) can’t admit to being clueless?”

The three observable basics of how most people come to the conclusions they do. Not just on Transportation.

Are you suggesting Uber run the trams also?

OpenYourMind said :

Building a ridiculous tram that won’t be used aint gonna help things.

The LNP mayor of the Gold Coast had the decency to say AFTER the Light Rail was built that he didn’t know what he was talking about, and that the “Reality Study” was over, it’s a “No-Brainer, just build the rest”.

Obviously public transport is ridiculous to YOU, and YOU are not going to use it which is as far as you have thought about it.

Pity you weren’t there to offer profound advice when the politicians looked at the sheep paddock that was to become Canberra:

“We’ll all be rooned,” said Hanrahan, “Before the year is out.”

wildturkeycanoe said :

rubaiyat said :

OpenYourMind said :

How many more will succumb to trips and falls once the tram is chosen as their “modus operandi”, thanks to the increased exposure to cracked footpaths, loose pavers, divots in the nature strip and the gap between the platform and the tram?”

How many more will succumb to the steadily growing epidemic of morbid obesity, diabetes and circulatory diseases from lack of exercise directly due to the bad lifestyle of driving everywhere, because “I have to”?

http://www.aihw.gov.au/overweight-and-obesity/

http://www.aihw.gov.au/diabetes/

http://www.aihw.gov.au/diabetes-indicators/overweight-and-obesity/

http://www.aihw.gov.au/national-health-priority-areas/

http://www.aihw.gov.au/deaths/

Last night I attended a New Years Eve celebration which had a noticeable number of extremely obese older attendees. Particularly notable was the families. It wasn’t just grandma, it was her daughter and their children and possibly the children’s children. But that is visible everywhere to the point we have reality TV shows based around the outcomes of bad life choices.

The medical system is groaning under the weight of inmates with chronic life style choice problems.

They haven’t gone away just because the doctors can keep you on life support almost indefinitely, propping up your mistaken interpretation of the statistics.

The tram will eliminate obesity how exactly? All it does is put all the overweight people into one moving vehicle instead of a hundred. The walk from the tram station to the shop/workplace/home will be pretty much the same as it was when they parked their car in the multi-storey. Oh, actually it won’t be, because the tram promises to get them closer to the amenities so they don’t have to walk so far.
If the bus connections in the suburbs aren’t convenient enough that they have to walk a few hundred meters from their homes, those fat people will simply park’n’ride, effectively walking less than presently thanks to the “cheaper” and “healthier” alternative of the tram.

Cars are certainly not the solution, they are the problem. Public transport is (literally) a step in the right direction.

Public transport involves considerable exercise and standing up. Sitting being the big killer.

Freeways, the great offender, actually cut up our cities and make it impossible to cross them without huge diversions, driving people into even more car use.

The lazy unthinking people who are addicted to cars to the point they can’t walk to their local shops, schools or any destinations because it is “too inconvenient”, “too dangerous”, “involves being outdoors”, “someone might see me” are unsurprisingly overweight, with bad backs, bad diets (I see them in Manuka’s Macdonalds Drive Through every evening), have circulatory problems and diabetes that leads to problems with lower limbs, so instead of rectifying any of the causes, they turn to mobility scooters with even more obesity, circulation problems etc. etc. The long slow downward spiral.

If you are onto a really bad life style choice the principle is not to let go, just work on increasingly more unbelievable excuses to keep on putting yourself in harms way.

There are reasons why the people who live to extremely healthy old age live in hilly locations and don’t have cars, or avoid them. My father who had a couple of heart attacks, has moved to the Northern Beaches and is now fitter, slimmer and healthier since he sold his car, has to negotiate a steep hill every day to catch a bus to the local village where he walks around doing his shopping.

Obesity is a particular problem in country towns where people are so wedded to their cars they drive to park straight outside where they want to go and get back in the car just to move down the street a bit. A few years ago my wife and I caught the train to Ballarat to see Sovereign Hill. I wasn’t quite sure of the directions so popped into a local “Beauty Parlour” to ask. I couldn’t help noticing the workers were not a good advertisement for the shop’s theme and were really overweight. When I asked directions to walk to Sovereign Hill they were aghast, “too far to walk, get a taxi”. I knew they were wrong and ignored them. It was a pleasant 20 minute walk through pretty old houses and gardens, but unthinkable to the locals.

The sheer horror and abject fear at the thought of getting OUT of our cars is killing us, and driving up our health budget to astronomic heights. Which is a constant theme here. The fear is that this could be the thing that could change things and take away the ready excuse that the present bad habits, planning and transport “Are the way things are and we can never change them”.

Two problems as I see it
1) if the Libs rip up the contracts its going to cost a lot of money which we dont have.
2) if the project goes ahead then where is the money going to come from?
That was a rehtorical question I know its going to come out of the saving that are made when they catch the last welfare cheat…..
They should have gone for trams and not light rail (yes there is a distinction) it may have saved a lot of money but people dont like trams, they do like light rail…

rubaiyat said :

OpenYourMind said :

How many more will succumb to trips and falls once the tram is chosen as their “modus operandi”, thanks to the increased exposure to cracked footpaths, loose pavers, divots in the nature strip and the gap between the platform and the tram?”

How many more will succumb to the steadily growing epidemic of morbid obesity, diabetes and circulatory diseases from lack of exercise directly due to the bad lifestyle of driving everywhere, because “I have to”?

http://www.aihw.gov.au/overweight-and-obesity/

http://www.aihw.gov.au/diabetes/

http://www.aihw.gov.au/diabetes-indicators/overweight-and-obesity/

http://www.aihw.gov.au/national-health-priority-areas/

http://www.aihw.gov.au/deaths/

Last night I attended a New Years Eve celebration which had a noticeable number of extremely obese older attendees. Particularly notable was the families. It wasn’t just grandma, it was her daughter and their children and possibly the children’s children. But that is visible everywhere to the point we have reality TV shows based around the outcomes of bad life choices.

The medical system is groaning under the weight of inmates with chronic life style choice problems.

They haven’t gone away just because the doctors can keep you on life support almost indefinitely, propping up your mistaken interpretation of the statistics.

The tram will eliminate obesity how exactly? All it does is put all the overweight people into one moving vehicle instead of a hundred. The walk from the tram station to the shop/workplace/home will be pretty much the same as it was when they parked their car in the multi-storey. Oh, actually it won’t be, because the tram promises to get them closer to the amenities so they don’t have to walk so far.
If the bus connections in the suburbs aren’t convenient enough that they have to walk a few hundred meters from their homes, those fat people will simply park’n’ride, effectively walking less than presently thanks to the “cheaper” and “healthier” alternative of the tram.

We don’t need Public Transport, we have Uber!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-02/uber-price-surges-on-new-years-eve-spark-criticism/7064530

I noted the attached Twit from:

“Michael Bell @Xtrackka
Is the “problem” with Uber surge pricing the fact that people a) can’t read, b) can’t do arithmetic, or c) can’t admit to being clueless?”

The three observable basics of how most people come to the conclusions they do. Not just on Transportation.

rubaiyat said :

OpenYourMind said :

How many more will succumb to trips and falls once the tram is chosen as their “modus operandi”, thanks to the increased exposure to cracked footpaths, loose pavers, divots in the nature strip and the gap between the platform and the tram?”

How many more will succumb to the steadily growing epidemic of morbid obesity, diabetes and circulatory diseases from lack of exercise directly due to the bad lifestyle of driving everywhere, because “I have to”?

http://www.aihw.gov.au/overweight-and-obesity/

http://www.aihw.gov.au/diabetes/

http://www.aihw.gov.au/diabetes-indicators/overweight-and-obesity/

http://www.aihw.gov.au/national-health-priority-areas/

http://www.aihw.gov.au/deaths/

Last night I attended a New Years Eve celebration which had a noticeable number of extremely obese older attendees. Particularly notable was the families. It wasn’t just grandma, it was her daughter and their children and possibly the children’s children. But that is visible everywhere to the point we have reality TV shows based around the outcomes of bad life choices.

The medical system is groaning under the weight of inmates with chronic life style choice problems.

They haven’t gone away just because the doctors can keep you on life support almost indefinitely, propping up your mistaken interpretation of the statistics.

And you think a tram will fix any of this? Personally, I’d like to see more promotion of cycling, which is way quicker and infinitely more environmental than a tram anyway, but here in reality land, I know we won’t see a groundswell of cycling or tram use. The only thing likely to grow hugely is our rates bill. Maybe if our local economy was in a huge surplus, it might even be a consideration, albeit a stupid one, but we have a record deficit right now. Building a ridiculous tram that won’t be used aint gonna help things.

rubaiyat said :

How many more will succumb to the steadily growing epidemic of morbid obesity, diabetes and circulatory diseases from lack of exercise directly due to the bad lifestyle of driving everywhere, because “I have to”?

So, how do u know that their “bad lifestyle/lack of exercise” is due to driving everywhere – including to the function you attended ? Did u ask them or are you presuming again ?

There is no doubt that being overweight due to bad lifestyle and lack of exercise is exasperated if people drive everywhere. But it’s certainly on its own, not the sole root cause.

However, if this is another obtuse anti cars, roads, parking lots, etc, comment, then we will have to wait to see if the magical, mystical powers of the Tram can solve the obesity issue.

rubaiyat said :

Given an extremely inefficient layout and design purely for cars Public Transport is a hard ask. Surprise! Surprise! An awkward arrangement that is leading to a net egress from the Valley.

Once again, your argument that cars are the root of all evil relies on a presumption.

If there is a loss of population from Tuggeranong, your presumption is that its because of that root of all evil – cars.

It wouldn’t be that if u want to get a newly built house in Canberra, you really have to move to Molonglo or Gunners would it ? Or that there is less employment base in Tuggers due to poor planning ?

On the contrary. I think that its an ACT Labor/Greens Gov’t plot to water down the Liberal leaning vote in Tuggeranong via population loss…….LOL……

OpenYourMind said :

How many more will succumb to trips and falls once the tram is chosen as their “modus operandi”, thanks to the increased exposure to cracked footpaths, loose pavers, divots in the nature strip and the gap between the platform and the tram?”

How many more will succumb to the steadily growing epidemic of morbid obesity, diabetes and circulatory diseases from lack of exercise directly due to the bad lifestyle of driving everywhere, because “I have to”?

http://www.aihw.gov.au/overweight-and-obesity/

http://www.aihw.gov.au/diabetes/

http://www.aihw.gov.au/diabetes-indicators/overweight-and-obesity/

http://www.aihw.gov.au/national-health-priority-areas/

http://www.aihw.gov.au/deaths/

Last night I attended a New Years Eve celebration which had a noticeable number of extremely obese older attendees. Particularly notable was the families. It wasn’t just grandma, it was her daughter and their children and possibly the children’s children. But that is visible everywhere to the point we have reality TV shows based around the outcomes of bad life choices.

The medical system is groaning under the weight of inmates with chronic life style choice problems.

They haven’t gone away just because the doctors can keep you on life support almost indefinitely, propping up your mistaken interpretation of the statistics.

OpenYourMind said :

My New Year’s wish is that the light rail project is cancelled.

The best rebuttal to Rubaiyat of the year was this one: “rubaiyat said :
The best you can hope for with the current transport solution considered compulsory by those above is that when you almost inevitably become a victim of either the cars or the lifestyle, is that you are run over by a hearse.”

You keep babbling on about the roads killing people, but let the statistics from the Australian Institute for Health and Welfare put your argument into some perspective. In the leading causes of premature mortality for Australians, deaths by land transport accidents [which covers a broader range of vehicles than simply cars on roads] is ranked as 18th, only claiming less than a percent of the population. Suicide on the other hand is ranked 13th and claims almost 2% of the population. Even the flu claims twice as many victims as commuting, so getting all the sick people to share their germs in a confined space on public transport is a backward step in reducing mortality rates.
Road death tolls are also falling and have been doing so since the invention of the automobile. You make it sound like we have a problem spiraling out of control, whereas in fact the opposite is true.
Now if you are referring to hospitalization rates due to vehicle crashes, yes the numbers are high. To put those figures into perspective though, there are twice as many people admitted to hospitals for “falls” than MVAs, so perhaps we need to first focus on a safety campaign to alert people to the dangers of gravity before panicking over the 0.23% of Australians that had a boo boo because they were involved in a bingle. How many more will succumb to trips and falls once the tram is chosen as their “modus operandi”, thanks to the increased exposure to cracked footpaths, loose pavers, divots in the nature strip and the gap between the platform and the tram?”

So you are saying spending your life as a cripple is OK? Which will be fixed by the usual brochures?

Odd how another poster says his kids can’t walk even the moderate distance to school or catch public transport because it is too dangerous, but when you want to sweep it under the carpet, and it is a choice of letting go of the irrational obsession with cars, cars are not so dangerous after all.

…and you will of course be able to prove just how “dangerous” the Tram is. Some more of dungfungus’ very informative links perhaps?

My New Year’s wish is that the light rail project is cancelled.

The best rebuttal to Rubaiyat of the year was this one: “rubaiyat said :
The best you can hope for with the current transport solution considered compulsory by those above is that when you almost inevitably become a victim of either the cars or the lifestyle, is that you are run over by a hearse.”

You keep babbling on about the roads killing people, but let the statistics from the Australian Institute for Health and Welfare put your argument into some perspective. In the leading causes of premature mortality for Australians, deaths by land transport accidents [which covers a broader range of vehicles than simply cars on roads] is ranked as 18th, only claiming less than a percent of the population. Suicide on the other hand is ranked 13th and claims almost 2% of the population. Even the flu claims twice as many victims as commuting, so getting all the sick people to share their germs in a confined space on public transport is a backward step in reducing mortality rates.
Road death tolls are also falling and have been doing so since the invention of the automobile. You make it sound like we have a problem spiraling out of control, whereas in fact the opposite is true.
Now if you are referring to hospitalization rates due to vehicle crashes, yes the numbers are high. To put those figures into perspective though, there are twice as many people admitted to hospitals for “falls” than MVAs, so perhaps we need to first focus on a safety campaign to alert people to the dangers of gravity before panicking over the 0.23% of Australians that had a boo boo because they were involved in a bingle. How many more will succumb to trips and falls once the tram is chosen as their “modus operandi”, thanks to the increased exposure to cracked footpaths, loose pavers, divots in the nature strip and the gap between the platform and the tram?”

rubaiyat said :

Here is a link to a report from Hamilton in Ontario.
Gee, it sounds just like our leaders are planning for us:
http://www.therecord.com/news-story/6210120-abandoned-ship-in-mall-parking-lot-promotes-flat-earth-theory/
The point is that things that look good and sometimes work in other countries don’t necessarily work in a place like Canberra.
Also, note the visual allure of the car park around the wreck.
Beautiful.

Look, I know I’m from Tuggeranong and so as u have previously posted on here somewhere, have my head buried in the sand, am jealous of the never to be extended to Tuggers Tram, or what ever you think Tuggeranong residents think, but what has this post and the link got to do with anything ????

miz said :

Does anyone know, is there an *accurate,* recent survey on car use/ownership per region?
I would wager that Tuggeranong has a significantly high rate of car use (due to its geographic layout and generally less than adequate PT, particularly for Lanyon valley – from my chats to bus drivers, this last is well known to ACTION and is an unfortunate legacy from the period when the area was developed – no money then either, apparently). I would go so far as to say car use by Tuggeranong residents is probably higher than the ‘hipster’ areas that are the tram’s focus.
For example, Roads ACT were utterly shocked (because their figures were vastly underestimated) at how many cars were still trying to use Tharwa Drive during last year’s ‘quiet period’ between Xmas and NY, when they were trying to do significant road works.
Over 50,000 people live in Tuggeranong.
If those on this thread are genuinely serious about reducing car use, surely their focus should be targeting PT improvements to where it is *really* most needed.

Well there you have it the ACT Government is doing “significant road works”.

That is the best that can be done for Tuggeranong which is a classic example of bad town planning that is almost impossible to fix. What you get when you plan for the past. Even within Tuggeranong getting to the Town Centre is difficult because of the layout with all the destinations so scattered and the main ones at the extreme western end on the far side of the “lake”.

With enormous foresight the planners knew that “autonomous cars” were just around the corner and would fix everything, especially the cost, pollution and time taken to get anywhere. 😀

Given an extremely inefficient layout and design purely for cars Public Transport is a hard ask. Surprise! Surprise! An awkward arrangement that is leading to a net egress from the Valley. Given the choice people do not want to travel long distances, nor live in what is basically featureless, lifeless boring existence in red texture dog boxes remote from anywhere worthwhile.

Never the less it is still a benefit to Tuggeranong residents for Canberrans to have an alternate method of transport that reduces pollution and takes cars off the road heading into the City. They may drive but there will be less cars on the road at the destination, certainly much less than if all we do is build more roads that all end up at the same place.

Here is a link to a report from Hamilton in Ontario.
Gee, it sounds just like our leaders are planning for us:
http://www.therecord.com/news-story/6210120-abandoned-ship-in-mall-parking-lot-promotes-flat-earth-theory/
The point is that things that look good and sometimes work in other countries don’t necessarily work in a place like Canberra.
Also, note the visual allure of the car park around the wreck.
Beautiful.

rommeldog56 said :

rubaiyat said :

The ones who keep demanding more roads be constructed should be questioned:

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/boxing-day-road-toll-story–trunk-20151223-gluew3.html

As should those who oppose road construction/maintenance/carparks, etc.

A few posters here oppose cars/roads/carparks as being the root of all evil, but fail to offer a real and creditable alternative. Public transport may take the edge off the need for roads & carparks, but it is far from a panacea & will be at the margins.

New roads/cars/road maintenance & car parks will still be necessary. And unfortunately, people will continue to be injured and even die on roads as a result.

Autonomous cars offer some hope re injuries/deaths – but it is still the nut behind the wheel that is the real problem. And yes – I know there have been 4 deaths on ACT roads in the last 2 weeks & note that

Public transport is virtually non existent/ineffective over the XMAS period in Canberra. And of course we know the Trams timetable over the XMAS holiday periods don’t we…….

If u want to reduce injuries on the ever expanding road network, maybe put more energies into driver training, periodic driver retesting, far more harsh penalties, far more police visibility on roads, etc, rather than the anti car/roads rhetoric without a viable or creditable solution that is workable and will actually reduce the numbers of car on the roads. Densification will increase traffic congestion and road maintenance, not reduce it.

Maybe a brochure perhaps?

Works for problem gamblers and gun owners in the States.

And I am tired of being misrepresented as being against all cars and roads. That is a wowserish accusation on your part.

All I have pointed out is that Trams as being dangerous, polluting, and ineffectual, expensive alternative is absolutely not true and is just massive fear mongering on the part of those who just want the unsustainable and horrendously expensive and dangerous status quo to blithely go on forever despite the consequences and the inevitable grid lock and pollution.

And it is far from the odd death and injuries, there has been a non stop stream of deaths and serious injuries which I tried to link to but keeps getting deleted by the moderators for some inexplicable reason. Part of the “We can’t talk about it” that never addresses the core issue.

Hopefully they will let this through.

Meanwhile the “horror that is Light Rail” goes on around the world with barely anyone injured, even in dungfungus’ horrific case where an out of control truck driver managed to hit a tram instead of the usual pedestrians or other vehicles, in which case it wouldn’t have even got a mention. Just business as usual.

Does anyone know, is there an *accurate,* recent survey on car use/ownership per region?
I would wager that Tuggeranong has a significantly high rate of car use (due to its geographic layout and generally less than adequate PT, particularly for Lanyon valley – from my chats to bus drivers, this last is well known to ACTION and is an unfortunate legacy from the period when the area was developed – no money then either, apparently). I would go so far as to say car use by Tuggeranong residents is probably higher than the ‘hipster’ areas that are the tram’s focus.
For example, Roads ACT were utterly shocked (because their figures were vastly underestimated) at how many cars were still trying to use Tharwa Drive during last year’s ‘quiet period’ between Xmas and NY, when they were trying to do significant road works.
Over 50,000 people live in Tuggeranong.
If those on this thread are genuinely serious about reducing car use, surely their focus should be targeting PT improvements to where it is *really* most needed.

dungfungus said :

JC said :

gooterz said :

Seems like they are re-branding to become Transport Canberra. or at least that’s what they seem to imply.
One would notice that ORS is now Access Canberra.
Then we have the whole Icon water issue.

Light rail at the election was that it should happen if it was under $619 million or so. i very very very highly doubt it will be less than this.

also winning an election doesn’t make you elected dictator. if we had two parties at the election, one wanted to build a pyramid and the other a deathstar we’d still have to pick one. that doesnt mean we want either to do their pet projects.

the master plan doesn’t account for any growth in molonglo…

There is no rebranding Transport for Canbera has existed along with the Action brand for sometime now at least 4.

Transport for Canberra is the overarching entity responsible for public transport in Canberra including route planning and management of the Myway card Action is the bus operator who operates on behalf of Transport for Canberra.

When light rail starts the operator will operate under a Transport for Canberra contract. No doubt there will be integrated ticketing with Action which will be managed by Transport for Canberra but Action and Metro will be seperate entities.

As for the development application comments are not really a place to air views on if it should happen or not rather of it so you can object to it or otherwise from a planning perspective if it effects you. Eg construction would effect a business you are running etc

Transport for Canberra is not Transport Canberra.
The former is a website and the latter is a proposed new agency.
According to the Transport for Canberra website:
“From 1 July 2016, the ACT Government’s new single public transport agencyTransport Canberra will ensure that buses and light rail are integrated with each other, and with other forms of transport including taxis, cycling and walking. It will also encourage innovative approaches to driving, parking and traffic management.”

Transport for Canberra as mentioned is more than a website, it was set-up to manage the myway card system, separate from Action and currently has other transport planning functions too. It is not an agency just a section of TAMSs

Transport Canberra (dropping the for) it would seem is a new agency, that will merge Action, Capital Metro and Transport for Canberra functions.

rubaiyat said :

The ones who keep demanding more roads be constructed should be questioned:

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/boxing-day-road-toll-story–trunk-20151223-gluew3.html

As should those who oppose road construction/maintenance/carparks, etc.

A few posters here oppose cars/roads/carparks as being the root of all evil, but fail to offer a real and creditable alternative. Public transport may take the edge off the need for roads & carparks, but it is far from a panacea & will be at the margins. New roads/cars/road maintenance & car parks will still be necessary. And unfortunately, people will continue to be injured and even die on roads as a result.

Autonomous cars offer some hope re injuries/deaths – but it is still the nut behind the wheel that is the real problem. And yes – I know there have been 4 deaths on ACT roads in the last 2 weeks & note that Public transport is virtually non existent/ineffective over the XMAS period in Canberra. And of course we know the Trams timetable over the XMAS holiday periods don’t we…….

If u want to reduce injuries on the ever expanding road network, maybe put more energies into driver training, periodic driver retesting, far more harsh penalties, far more police visibility on roads, etc, rather than the anti car/roads rhetoric without a viable or creditable solution that is workable and will actually reduce the numbers of car on the roads. Densification will increase traffic congestion and road maintenance, not reduce it.

dungfungus said :

rubaiyat said :

dungfungus said :

Here is a link to a report from Santa Monica in California.
Gee, it sounds just like our leaders are planning for us:
http://smdp.com/santa-monica-faces-reality-expo-light-rail/152728

The truck caused the accident with an illegal left turn and you blame the tram, NOT the truck?

Thankfully the truck didn’t kill anyone. This time.

Trucks cause 500,000 accidents and kill 5,000 people a year in the USA.

The tram probably saved lives in this case by taking the impact.

I blamed no one for the accident.
The judgement of the ones who allowed a light rail to be constructed in the midst of a car-centric city should be questioned however.

The ones who keep demanding more roads be constructed should be questioned:

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/boxing-day-road-toll-story–trunk-20151223-gluew3.html

Masquara said :

According to the Crimes, the government has spent $3 million outside the budget and pre approval, on preparations for the light rail. I wonder how many substantial “side spends” will come to light … and I’d love to see the investment portfolios of all those public servants who have had inside information via these extra-curricular spends …

You mean the ones that are buying containers?

rommeldog56 said :

Like many I know, I won’t be voting ACT Labor/Greens in 2016. After being a life long Labor voter up till 2012, I jumped off the Labor ship in the ACT & Federally because of the the Federal Rudd/Gillard/Rudd disaster and because I could see the economic wreck coming with the ACTs budget deficit, the tram + ACT annual rates increases.

Which is fine, but the Liberals haven’t got much to offer us either. I’m sick of political parties using negatives like “We are not Labor” so vote us in. that worked real well federally didn’t it. I hope the Liberals come up with some substantial and good policies for canberra for the next election. The last election was all negatives and divisive politics like xxx gets this why does yyy not get this in a hope to win enough seats in some electorates. Politics from 20-30 years ago will not continue to be effective in the social media world. The sooner people realise voting for anyone but the major parties is a good thing the sooner the major parties will start governing for the people and not just aiming to get relected into their well paid jobs.

According to the Crimes, the government has spent $3 million outside the budget and pre approval, on preparations for the light rail. I wonder how many substantial “side spends” will come to light … and I’d love to see the investment portfolios of all those public servants who have had inside information via these extra-curricular spends …

JC said :

gooterz said :

Seems like they are re-branding to become Transport Canberra. or at least that’s what they seem to imply.
One would notice that ORS is now Access Canberra.
Then we have the whole Icon water issue.

Light rail at the election was that it should happen if it was under $619 million or so. i very very very highly doubt it will be less than this.

also winning an election doesn’t make you elected dictator. if we had two parties at the election, one wanted to build a pyramid and the other a deathstar we’d still have to pick one. that doesnt mean we want either to do their pet projects.

the master plan doesn’t account for any growth in molonglo…

There is no rebranding Transport for Canbera has existed along with the Action brand for sometime now at least 4.

Transport for Canberra is the overarching entity responsible for public transport in Canberra including route planning and management of the Myway card Action is the bus operator who operates on behalf of Transport for Canberra.

When light rail starts the operator will operate under a Transport for Canberra contract. No doubt there will be integrated ticketing with Action which will be managed by Transport for Canberra but Action and Metro will be seperate entities.

As for the development application comments are not really a place to air views on if it should happen or not rather of it so you can object to it or otherwise from a planning perspective if it effects you. Eg construction would effect a business you are running etc

Transport for Canberra is not Transport Canberra.
The former is a website and the latter is a proposed new agency.
According to the Transport for Canberra website:
“From 1 July 2016, the ACT Government’s new single public transport agencyTransport Canberra will ensure that buses and light rail are integrated with each other, and with other forms of transport including taxis, cycling and walking. It will also encourage innovative approaches to driving, parking and traffic management.”

gooterz said :

Seems like they are re-branding to become Transport Canberra. or at least that’s what they seem to imply.
One would notice that ORS is now Access Canberra.
Then we have the whole Icon water issue.

Light rail at the election was that it should happen if it was under $619 million or so. i very very very highly doubt it will be less than this.

also winning an election doesn’t make you elected dictator. if we had two parties at the election, one wanted to build a pyramid and the other a deathstar we’d still have to pick one. that doesnt mean we want either to do their pet projects.

the master plan doesn’t account for any growth in molonglo…

There is no rebranding Transport for Canbera has existed along with the Action brand for sometime now at least 4.

Transport for Canberra is the overarching entity responsible for public transport in Canberra including route planning and management of the Myway card Action is the bus operator who operates on behalf of Transport for Canberra.

When light rail starts the operator will operate under a Transport for Canberra contract. No doubt there will be integrated ticketing with Action which will be managed by Transport for Canberra but Action and Metro will be seperate entities.

As for the development application comments are not really a place to air views on if it should happen or not rather of it so you can object to it or otherwise from a planning perspective if it effects you. Eg construction would effect a business you are running etc

Prior to the last election they only committed $30 million to see if light rail was viable – and according to this article, it was all supposed to take ‘several years.’
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/labor-unveil-plan-for-light-rail-line-20120920-269wf.html
Clearly they are in a panic to get it locked in because they know they have done the dirty on the electorate.

dungfungus said :

rubaiyat said :

A more pertinent link:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/5933246/why-truck-driving-is-one-of-the-most-unhealthy-jobs-in-america

You would be the first to complain if a truck driver delivering your favourite Cabernet Sauvignon slept in.
Anyway, we are supposed to be talking about trams, not trucks.

Wait, what .. the tram is going to do home delivery? Of grog? You beauty. This changes EVERYTHING!

As I listened to the reporting of this (as if it was actually news) yesterday, I was reminded of the old joke about someone breaking into the Kremlin and stealing next year’s election results.

gooterz said :

Seems like they are re-branding to become Transport Canberra. or at least that’s what they seem to imply.
One would notice that ORS is now Access Canberra.
Then we have the whole Icon water issue.

Light rail at the election was that it should happen if it was under $619 million or so. i very very very highly doubt it will be less than this.

also winning an election doesn’t make you elected dictator. if we had two parties at the election, one wanted to build a pyramid and the other a deathstar we’d still have to pick one. that doesnt mean we want either to do their pet projects.

the master plan doesn’t account for any growth in molonglo…

“Light rail at the election was that it should happen if it was under $619 million or so. i very very very highly doubt it will be less than this.”
This will remain the fixed cost for the Gungahlin section. All the cost overruns will be loaded into the Russell “extension” which hasn’t been costed as far as I am aware.
The government has in other words, given itself a blank cheque.
Problem solved.

Seems like they are re-branding to become Transport Canberra. or at least that’s what they seem to imply.
One would notice that ORS is now Access Canberra.
Then we have the whole Icon water issue.

Light rail at the election was that it should happen if it was under $619 million or so. i very very very highly doubt it will be less than this.

also winning an election doesn’t make you elected dictator. if we had two parties at the election, one wanted to build a pyramid and the other a deathstar we’d still have to pick one. that doesnt mean we want either to do their pet projects.

the master plan doesn’t account for any growth in molonglo…

RB78 said :

gooterz said :

Its a pitty we can’t just have early elections and sort this mess out.

It was entirely possible to wait a few months before signing contracts but surely they know they’re getting kicked out. So leaving a parting gift that Canberra will pay off for years.

Hopefully when the libs get in they put a picture of the tram on every rates bill, or at least denote what amount of every houses rates get proportioned to light rail.

We also don’t have a light rail master plan. Where are the thoughts for the rest of the ‘network’ or is it going to be a one hit wonder.

How much will all the rebranding cost too?

A) The light rail was announced before the last election.
B) There is a master plan: http://www.transport.act.gov.au/policy_and_projects/light-rail-master-plan
C) What rebranding? There’s been no suggestion that ACTION as a name will disappear, it will just come under TransportCanberra instead of TAMS.

Indeed, a LRT from Gungahlin to Canberra City was announced but the price and the consequences of “value adding” were not.
Now we have a DA pending approval for the LRT to extend to Russell.
All “master plans” announced by the current government have been visionary thought bubbles.
How quickly we forget the pop-up follies.
I read in the CT today that the government has funded a portable basketball playing surface for the hapless and win-less Canberra Capitals. How much did that cost and who will benefit?

rubaiyat said :

A more pertinent link:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/5933246/why-truck-driving-is-one-of-the-most-unhealthy-jobs-in-america

You would be the first to complain if a truck driver delivering your favourite Cabernet Sauvignon slept in.
Anyway, we are supposed to be talking about trams, not trucks.

rubaiyat said :

dungfungus said :

Here is a link to a report from Santa Monica in California.
Gee, it sounds just like our leaders are planning for us:
http://smdp.com/santa-monica-faces-reality-expo-light-rail/152728

The truck caused the accident with an illegal left turn and you blame the tram, NOT the truck?

Thankfully the truck didn’t kill anyone. This time.

Trucks cause 500,000 accidents and kill 5,000 people a year in the USA.

The tram probably saved lives in this case by taking the impact.

I blamed no one for the accident.
The judgement of the ones who allowed a light rail to be constructed in the midst of a car-centric city should be questioned however.

gooterz said :

Its a pitty we can’t just have early elections and sort this mess out.

It was entirely possible to wait a few months before signing contracts but surely they know they’re getting kicked out. So leaving a parting gift that Canberra will pay off for years.

Hopefully when the libs get in they put a picture of the tram on every rates bill, or at least denote what amount of every houses rates get proportioned to light rail.

We also don’t have a light rail master plan. Where are the thoughts for the rest of the ‘network’ or is it going to be a one hit wonder.

How much will all the rebranding cost too?

A) The light rail was announced before the last election.
B) There is a master plan: http://www.transport.act.gov.au/policy_and_projects/light-rail-master-plan
C) What rebranding? There’s been no suggestion that ACTION as a name will disappear, it will just come under TransportCanberra instead of TAMS.

Good to hear. The quicker this thing gets built and running the better.

farq said :

the only public consultation the ALP government cares about is the ballot box, and next year things will be different. life long labor voters like myself are unhappy with high (ever increasing) rates and over development. next year we vote them out!

I’m not so sure about that. Personally, I think that ACT Labors “alliance” with the Greens and the introduction of more electorates/MLAs, + ACT voters apathetic head in the sand rusted on Labor attitude, will get them over the line.

I heard Anthony Green – ABC electoral commentator – say that some time ago now. Admittedly though, the Light Rail + other things have worsened for the ACT Gov’t since then (IMHO).

A poll released today by Unions ACT is claimed to show a narrow ACT Labor/Greens win in 2016. Maybe they just polled Union members ?

Like many I know, I won’t be voting ACT Labor/Greens in 2016. After being a life long Labor voter up till 2012, I jumped off the Labor ship in the ACT & Federally because of the the Federal Rudd/Gillard/Rudd disaster and because I could see the economic wreck coming with the ACTs budget deficit, the tram + ACT annual rates increases.

Its a pitty we can’t just have early elections and sort this mess out.

It was entirely possible to wait a few months before signing contracts but surely they know they’re getting kicked out. So leaving a parting gift that Canberra will pay off for years.

Hopefully when the libs get in they put a picture of the tram on every rates bill, or at least denote what amount of every houses rates get proportioned to light rail.

We also don’t have a light rail master plan. Where are the thoughts for the rest of the ‘network’ or is it going to be a one hit wonder.

How much will all the rebranding cost too?

why bother making a comment? it’s like hitting your head against a brick wall.

history has shown us that the ACT Labor government’s idea of consultation is only a show, just theater.

unless the people (or nimbys as the gov calls them) involved happen to be lawyers who can take it to court, you have no chance of changing their mind (and now with their call in powers even that possibility is gone).

I’ve watched multiple public ‘consultations’ in which the majority of people got upset and where against the proposal only for each and every one to get approved.

the only public consultation the ALP government cares about is the ballot box, and next year things will be different. life long labor voters like myself are unhappy with high (ever increasing) rates and over development. next year we vote them out!

The illustration is very interesting re its missing poles. Apparently the light rail is going to have randomly spaced out poles beneath wires that won’t sag where they’ve missed a couple!

There was no point making a submission on this fait d’accompli. I wish they’d see sense but I can see I am going to have to vote Liberal to get this crock dead and buried. It would help if the Liberals made assurances not to privatise and sell off stuff though. Carnell was diabolical. But on balance the tram is worse.

A more pertinent link:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/5933246/why-truck-driving-is-one-of-the-most-unhealthy-jobs-in-america

dungfungus said :

Here is a link to a report from Santa Monica in California.
Gee, it sounds just like our leaders are planning for us:
http://smdp.com/santa-monica-faces-reality-expo-light-rail/152728

The truck caused the accident with an illegal left turn and you blame the tram, NOT the truck?

Thankfully the truck didn’t kill anyone. This time.

Trucks cause 500,000 accidents and kill 5,000 people a year in the USA.

The tram probably saved lives in this case by taking the impact.

bd84 said :

No surprise that the Government’s pet project got approved. The biggest and most expensive infrastructure project in the Territory whose design was subject to only 15 days public consultation and approved in a month after.

They weren’t actually looking for public comments based on the large amount of documents associated with the application that most of the community would unlikely understand. To understand them you would have almost needed to be an expert at reading all the planning documents and must have been willing to print out the design drawings, sticky tape them together and interpret the plans and route/traffic arrangements. I’m sure we will just have to do it up with the try and fix it job after its built, like most of the other Government projects.

Yep, a certain career terminating move to knock it back.

Here is a link to a report from Santa Monica in California.
Gee, it sounds just like our leaders are planning for us:
http://smdp.com/santa-monica-faces-reality-expo-light-rail/152728
The point is that things that look good and sometimes work in other countries don’t necessarily work in a place like Canberra.
Also, note the visual allure of the tram wirescape above the wreckage.
Beautiful.

No surprise that the Government’s pet project got approved. The biggest and most expensive infrastructure project in the Territory whose design was subject to only 15 days public consultation and approved in a month after.

They weren’t actually looking for public comments based on the large amount of documents associated with the application that most of the community would unlikely understand. To understand them you would have almost needed to be an expert at reading all the planning documents and must have been willing to print out the design drawings, sticky tape them together and interpret the plans and route/traffic arrangements. I’m sure we will just have to do it up with the try and fix it job after its built, like most of the other Government projects.