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Light Rail to Woden – WVCC public meeting 3 May 2017

By Woden Valley Community Council - 2 May 2017 15

Woden Valley

Light Rail is coming to Woden!

Transport Canberra will provide an update on stage 2 – City to Woden – at the Woden Valley Community Council (WVCC) public meeting on 3 May 2017 at 7.30 pm at the Southern Cross Club Woden.

Current town planning principles include both transport and land use planning so it is timely that the light rail is being planned at the same time as there is consideration of the draft Variations to the Territory Plan (Precinct Codes) for Woden and Mawson. Please note that the comment period for these variations has been extended to 2 June 2017.

Woden has a great future. The policy intent of Town Centres under the National Capital Plan is that they will be relatively self-contained and act as a focal point for employment, retail functions, commercial services and community facilities. Similarly, the Territory Plan provides for towns that will offer a diversity of housing types, employment opportunities, access to retail centres, community facilities and open space.

The WVCC supports the Government’s policy to densify town centres and transport corridors. In doing this, planning must provide for the needs of the community to enable them to live, work, learn and play in the Town Centre.

We welcome development and the associated community facilities that a growing community will require. Fundamental community assets that Woden needs to achieve its vision include; a community centre, a CIT, a multi-purpose sports hall and a publicly funded swimming pool. Planning will also need to include consideration of open spaces and active living principles, for example the alignment of cycle networks.

The renewal of Woden provides the opportunity to plan for the future to ensure that Woden becomes a vibrant Town Centre where people choose to live.

The WVCC is pleased to participate in the Chief Minister’s vision for Canberra, as stated in his document – CANBERRA: A statement of ambition:

‘One of the world’s most liveable and competitive cities – welcoming to all.

As a government and as a community, we must build on that feeling, and create that future, together’.

Cities don’t succeed by accident or by leaving things to chance – they require design, good governance and great collaboration. Cities must internally collaborate to compete in the modern era, and together we can ensure Canberra wins the global contest for investment and talent’.

The WVCC looks forward to collaborating with the ACT Government to ensure good governance that coordinates planning for the agglomeration of facilities and activity to ensure great outcomes for Woden.

Please choose to engage with the community and come along to our public meeting and discuss the light rail and community facilities required to ensure its success.

For further information on Woden issues please go to the WVCC website at wvcc.org.au and follow the Woden Valley Community Council Facebook page. You can also follow us on twitter at @WVCC_Inc.

Fiona Carrick
President
Woden Valley Community Council

What’s Your opinion?


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15 Responses to
Light Rail to Woden – WVCC public meeting 3 May 2017
1
Damien Haas 12:54 pm
02 May 17
#

A good example of community consultation, and I’d encourage people to attend, ask questions, and share their thoughts.

Some route options have been provided that fit into realistic parameters for the projects goals. These options really help to form thoughts around the way light rail can deliver people to their workplaces in Civic and Barton, and also how tourists can access national attractions.

The Woden Town Centre desperately needs private investment and high quality public transport provides developers and employers with a sense of certainty. Light rail will spark a wave of urban renewal that Woden really needs. Mixed retail and residential development will lift the population, provide employment and new options for people to spend time in the town centre after the mall has closed in the evening.

Light rail really is about more than just public transport and easing road congestion, it’s a valuable planning tool.

2
Woden Martin 7:11 pm
02 May 17
#

Damien Haas said :

The Woden Town Centre desperately needs private investment and high quality public transport provides developers and employers with a sense of certainty. Light rail will spark a wave of urban renewal that Woden really needs. Mixed retail and residential development will lift the population, provide employment and new options for people to spend time in the town centre after the mall has closed in the evening.

Woden’s Population has been at the same level for decades and even with more dwellings planned this will only increase by a few thousand. More private investment you say? Well there is plenty going on with over a thousand new dwellings in and around the town centre over the last decade. The mall has been extended at least 3 times over its life. The 3 major clubs have all extended their premises.
The movement of employment out of the town centre has had the major affect and even though the Hospital has been expanded in recent years the distance from the town centre has meant that it sees very little benefit from the extra employment or visitors. The rebuild of the hospital should have been in the town centre itself or along Callam Street.
Private investment has seen several bars and night clubs close in Woden and the Phillip Trades Precinct. Recreational and leisure built or acquired by the Private industry have closed and been demolished with the lost of : Indoor swimming pools , lawn bowls , Pitch n Putt , Bowling alley , Roller skating rink, Indoor basketball courts , Tennis courts and the stagnation of any improvement to the Phillip Pool n Ice skating rink. Urban amenity: Woden lacks high quality urban open spaces which has been lost and rezoned over the years . Plans are to take more public open space from Eddison Park and the Woden Town park.
Woden doesn’t have a significant water body like a lake or major Wetland this is unlikely to see private investment. Woden has lost its higher education facility thanks to a concerted effort by Brindabella Labor candidates and a CIT board that only sees North Canberra as its major home.
If Woden just builds more residential apartments with some increased cafes of restaurants this will do little to improvement the livability of the town centre and its residents. But rather a dormitory town centre with alack of Community facilities that resident will have to travel elsewhere to. I guess thats what light rail is for then!

3
dungfungus 10:43 pm
02 May 17
#

Woden Martin said :

Damien Haas said :

The Woden Town Centre desperately needs private investment and high quality public transport provides developers and employers with a sense of certainty. Light rail will spark a wave of urban renewal that Woden really needs. Mixed retail and residential development will lift the population, provide employment and new options for people to spend time in the town centre after the mall has closed in the evening.

Woden’s Population has been at the same level for decades and even with more dwellings planned this will only increase by a few thousand. More private investment you say? Well there is plenty going on with over a thousand new dwellings in and around the town centre over the last decade. The mall has been extended at least 3 times over its life. The 3 major clubs have all extended their premises.
The movement of employment out of the town centre has had the major affect and even though the Hospital has been expanded in recent years the distance from the town centre has meant that it sees very little benefit from the extra employment or visitors. The rebuild of the hospital should have been in the town centre itself or along Callam Street.
Private investment has seen several bars and night clubs close in Woden and the Phillip Trades Precinct. Recreational and leisure built or acquired by the Private industry have closed and been demolished with the lost of : Indoor swimming pools , lawn bowls , Pitch n Putt , Bowling alley , Roller skating rink, Indoor basketball courts , Tennis courts and the stagnation of any improvement to the Phillip Pool n Ice skating rink. Urban amenity: Woden lacks high quality urban open spaces which has been lost and rezoned over the years . Plans are to take more public open space from Eddison Park and the Woden Town park.
Woden doesn’t have a significant water body like a lake or major Wetland this is unlikely to see private investment. Woden has lost its higher education facility thanks to a concerted effort by Brindabella Labor candidates and a CIT board that only sees North Canberra as its major home.
If Woden just builds more residential apartments with some increased cafes of restaurants this will do little to improvement the livability of the town centre and its residents. But rather a dormitory town centre with alack of Community facilities that resident will have to travel elsewhere to. I guess thats what light rail is for then!

Perhaps this is what they call “urban regeneration”, ie, people sleep in one suburb but work and shop in another and the only way they can commute is by trams.

We are all being taken for a ride before the tram even reaches Woden.

4
goggles13 6:22 am
04 May 17
#

Damien Haas said :

The Woden Town Centre desperately needs private investment

There has been private investment in Albemarle and Alexander Buildings and this has resulted in them being derelict for seven years

5
bj_ACT 2:26 pm
04 May 17
#

My peak hour bus this morning took exactly 7 minutes 12 seconds to travel from the Phillip Pool stop to the Albert Hall stop this morning? It is 6.9km in distance so I guess that roughly means the bus travelled at almost 60kmh on average through the Yarra Glenn Roundabout bypass and along the transit lane. It is an 80kmh section of road and I guess peak hour slows the journey a fair bit. (I reckon the Bus often belts along about 85kmh in this section of road when traffic allows – excluding slowing down around the Parliament House bend and for the traffic lights near the Croquet club)

Looking at the proposed LR route plan and the average speed capability of the new LR vehicles, how is the Light Rail going to compete with the existing ACTION performance from Woden to Civic?

The Gold Coast Tram takes 22 minutes to travel the same 7km distance from the Hospital to Surfers paradise North. I am concerned the proposed Civic to Woden Light Rail will actually be a fair bit slower than the current ACTION Bus service. This surely can’t be a viable and attractive solution for Public transport users in Woden?

When has a slower public transport option ever increased use and patronage?

6
dungfungus 2:54 pm
04 May 17
#

bj_ACT said :

My peak hour bus this morning took exactly 7 minutes 12 seconds to travel from the Phillip Pool stop to the Albert Hall stop this morning? It is 6.9km in distance so I guess that roughly means the bus travelled at almost 60kmh on average through the Yarra Glenn Roundabout bypass and along the transit lane. It is an 80kmh section of road and I guess peak hour slows the journey a fair bit. (I reckon the Bus often belts along about 85kmh in this section of road when traffic allows – excluding slowing down around the Parliament House bend and for the traffic lights near the Croquet club)

Looking at the proposed LR route plan and the average speed capability of the new LR vehicles, how is the Light Rail going to compete with the existing ACTION performance from Woden to Civic?

The Gold Coast Tram takes 22 minutes to travel the same 7km distance from the Hospital to Surfers paradise North.

I am concerned the proposed Civic to Woden Light Rail will actually be a fair bit slower than the current ACTION Bus service. This surely can’t be a viable and attractive solution for Public transport users in Woden?

When has a slower public transport option ever increased use and patronage?

Melbourne?

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/waiting-for-better-tram-times-is-like–waiting-for-a-tram-20140528-394jw.html

7
chewy14 3:43 pm
04 May 17
#

bj_ACT said :

My peak hour bus this morning took exactly 7 minutes 12 seconds to travel from the Phillip Pool stop to the Albert Hall stop this morning? It is 6.9km in distance so I guess that roughly means the bus travelled at almost 60kmh on average through the Yarra Glenn Roundabout bypass and along the transit lane. It is an 80kmh section of road and I guess peak hour slows the journey a fair bit. (I reckon the Bus often belts along about 85kmh in this section of road when traffic allows – excluding slowing down around the Parliament House bend and for the traffic lights near the Croquet club)

Looking at the proposed LR route plan and the average speed capability of the new LR vehicles, how is the Light Rail going to compete with the existing ACTION performance from Woden to Civic?

The Gold Coast Tram takes 22 minutes to travel the same 7km distance from the Hospital to Surfers paradise North.

I am concerned the proposed Civic to Woden Light Rail will actually be a fair bit slower than the current ACTION Bus service. This surely can’t be a viable and attractive solution for Public transport users in Woden?

When has a slower public transport option ever increased use and patronage?

As with the first stage, this isn’t about public transport, it’s about “urban renewal” or regeneration or whatever they want to call it today.

8
Damien Haas 4:07 pm
04 May 17
#

Investment or ownership?

Landbanking doesnt help anyone, except an owner waiting for urban regeneration so they can benefit from others work.

goggles13 said :

Damien Haas said :

The Woden Town Centre desperately needs private investment

There has been private investment in Albemarle and Alexander Buildings and this has resulted in them being derelict for seven years

9
chewy14 8:13 am
05 May 17
#

Damien Haas said :

Investment or ownership?

Landbanking doesnt help anyone, except an owner waiting for urban regeneration so they can benefit from others work.

goggles13 said :

Damien Haas said :

The Woden Town Centre desperately needs private investment

There has been private investment in Albemarle and Alexander Buildings and this has resulted in them being derelict for seven years

Exactly the reason why the government should have charged a direct levy on landholders along all light rail routes to help pay for it.

10
Damien Haas 4:50 pm
05 May 17
#

chewy14 said :

As with the first stage, this isn’t about public transport, it’s about “urban renewal” or regeneration or whatever they want to call it today.

There are multiple drivers – improving transport options and urban renewal are pretty good reasons for a city that is growing. Road congestion out of Woden and Weston Creek is increasing, and will no matter how any more roads are built.

11
Damien Haas 4:53 pm
05 May 17
#

chewy14 said :

Exactly the reason why the government should have charged a direct levy on landholders along all light rail routes to help pay for it.

How far each side of the corridor do you propose for this levy? Do businesses and homeowners pay a levy?

It was an idea that was never considered seriously by government, and dismissed formally before the business case was released for Stage One.

12
chewy14 7:20 pm
05 May 17
#

Damien Haas said :

chewy14 said :

Exactly the reason why the government should have charged a direct levy on landholders along all light rail routes to help pay for it.

How far each side of the corridor do you propose for this levy? Do businesses and homeowners pay a levy?

It was an idea that was never considered seriously by government, and dismissed formally before the business case was released for Stage One.

Yes, and the main reason it was dismissed is because of an upcoming election and the fact that they needed the votes along the stage 1 route to win that election. Buying those votes with a massive publically funded boost to their property prices worked a treat in the inner north and Gungahlin.

There would be many options for charging such a levy but I would have it charged on a sliding scale out to between 500m-1000m from the route. Over a period of 5 years around construction.

It would be levied on all landholders, similar to the current lease variation charge to reflect the windfall gain received by property owners.

13
bigred 9:38 pm
05 May 17
#

bj_ACT said :

My peak hour bus this morning took exactly 7 minutes 12 seconds to travel from the Phillip Pool stop to the Albert Hall stop this morning? It is 6.9km in distance so I guess that roughly means the bus travelled at almost 60kmh on average through the Yarra Glenn Roundabout bypass and along the transit lane. It is an 80kmh section of road and I guess peak hour slows the journey a fair bit. (I reckon the Bus often belts along about 85kmh in this section of road when traffic allows – excluding slowing down around the Parliament House bend and for the traffic lights near the Croquet club)

Looking at the proposed LR route plan and the average speed capability of the new LR vehicles, how is the Light Rail going to compete with the existing ACTION performance from Woden to Civic?

The Gold Coast Tram takes 22 minutes to travel the same 7km distance from the Hospital to Surfers paradise North.

I am concerned the proposed Civic to Woden Light Rail will actually be a fair bit slower than the current ACTION Bus service. This surely can’t be a viable and attractive solution for Public transport users in Woden?

When has a slower public transport option ever increased use and patronage?

The notion of a bus sharing roads with Canberra’s numpty motorists at significant speed against a light rail vehicle on a dedicated right of way does not deserve comparison. I reguarly travel between Woden and Civic by bus, and to be frank the thought of a mishap between a bus carrying 100 people at a notionally governed 88 km/h provides little comfort.

14
wildturkeycanoe 8:11 am
06 May 17
#

Damien Haas said :

How far each side of the corridor do you propose for this levy? Do businesses and homeowners pay a levy?

Actually yes, we all pay levys for things we do not use. The emergency services levy is one example, as are the road rescue levy and the medicare levy. At least this way the people paying the levy will be the ones who will benefit from the service they pay for. All Canberrans will be paying for the tram folly for decades to come with the increased rates needed to prop up the economy.

bigred said :

The notion of a bus sharing roads with Canberra’s numpty motorists at significant speed against a light rail vehicle on a dedicated right of way does not deserve comparison.

Oh but it does, because your concerns are addressed by the creation of a dedicated bus lane, which minimizes the risks. Light rail crosses the path of cars quite frequently, unless they build it over or under ground, so you can not contest that it is safe from “numpty motorists”. I mean how many red light runners do you see in one day, or vehicles queued back across an intersection during peak hour? The tram will not be immune.

Damien Haas said :

Mixed retail and residential development will lift the population, provide employment and new options for people to spend time in the town centre after the mall has closed in the evening.

What is stopping this development from starting now? New development should already have started if money is to be made, because once the tram plans are rubber stamped it is foreseeable that costs associated with new builds will skyrocket.
Also, while the tram provides a “fast” connection to Civic, people from Woden will head into the city for night life instead of staying local. The tram will not entice Woden residents to fill local clubs and bars, but it will do the opposite and deliver them to the city, which by that stage will have an already well developed nightlife. Your argument that a good public transport link will increase local patronage doesn’t make sense, especially for after hours. Accommodation options will perhaps be a boom, but you need to weigh up the increased cost associated with “land value capture” by government and competition from all the new housing going up along Northbourne Avenue. Also, with the public service being sliced up and spread out across the countryside, where is the employment to sustain all this new growth? It isn’t like we have a great resources or manufacturing base let alone any awesome tourist attractions. With interest rates eventually destined to rise, housing will become even less affordable. I feel the whole “Build it and they will come” philosophy will not see Canberra’s light rail become an instant success, rather a large white elephant that will bankrupt the capital.

15
rommeldog56 10:16 am
06 May 17
#

Damien Haas said :

How far each side of the corridor do you propose for this levy? Do businesses and homeowners pay a levy?

It was an idea that was never considered seriously by government, and dismissed formally before the business case was released for Stage One.

How about at least 500 meters each side of the corridor – thats where the Business Case said most of the passengers would come from and where the regeneration would occur. Walking distance to a tram stop. That where the levy should go. On residences, units and businesses alike. Yes, a levy was dismissed early ion by the ACT Labor/Greens Govt – but not for matters of logic or economics. It was a political decision to help facilitate acceptance of the Tram.

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