Light Rail to Woden - WVCC public meeting 3 May 2017

Damien Haas said :

How far each side of the corridor do you propose for this levy? Do businesses and homeowners pay a levy?

It was an idea that was never considered seriously by government, and dismissed formally before the business case was released for Stage One.

How about at least 500 meters each side of the corridor – thats where the Business Case said most of the passengers would come from and where the regeneration would occur. Walking distance to a tram stop. That where the levy should go. On residences, units and businesses alike. Yes, a levy was dismissed early ion by the ACT Labor/Greens Govt – but not for matters of logic or economics. It was a political decision to help facilitate acceptance of the Tram.

Damien Haas said :

How far each side of the corridor do you propose for this levy? Do businesses and homeowners pay a levy?

Actually yes, we all pay levys for things we do not use. The emergency services levy is one example, as are the road rescue levy and the medicare levy. At least this way the people paying the levy will be the ones who will benefit from the service they pay for. All Canberrans will be paying for the tram folly for decades to come with the increased rates needed to prop up the economy.

bigred said :

The notion of a bus sharing roads with Canberra’s numpty motorists at significant speed against a light rail vehicle on a dedicated right of way does not deserve comparison.

Oh but it does, because your concerns are addressed by the creation of a dedicated bus lane, which minimizes the risks. Light rail crosses the path of cars quite frequently, unless they build it over or under ground, so you can not contest that it is safe from “numpty motorists”. I mean how many red light runners do you see in one day, or vehicles queued back across an intersection during peak hour? The tram will not be immune.

Damien Haas said :

Mixed retail and residential development will lift the population, provide employment and new options for people to spend time in the town centre after the mall has closed in the evening.

What is stopping this development from starting now? New development should already have started if money is to be made, because once the tram plans are rubber stamped it is foreseeable that costs associated with new builds will skyrocket.
Also, while the tram provides a “fast” connection to Civic, people from Woden will head into the city for night life instead of staying local. The tram will not entice Woden residents to fill local clubs and bars, but it will do the opposite and deliver them to the city, which by that stage will have an already well developed nightlife. Your argument that a good public transport link will increase local patronage doesn’t make sense, especially for after hours. Accommodation options will perhaps be a boom, but you need to weigh up the increased cost associated with “land value capture” by government and competition from all the new housing going up along Northbourne Avenue. Also, with the public service being sliced up and spread out across the countryside, where is the employment to sustain all this new growth? It isn’t like we have a great resources or manufacturing base let alone any awesome tourist attractions. With interest rates eventually destined to rise, housing will become even less affordable. I feel the whole “Build it and they will come” philosophy will not see Canberra’s light rail become an instant success, rather a large white elephant that will bankrupt the capital.

bj_ACT said :

My peak hour bus this morning took exactly 7 minutes 12 seconds to travel from the Phillip Pool stop to the Albert Hall stop this morning? It is 6.9km in distance so I guess that roughly means the bus travelled at almost 60kmh on average through the Yarra Glenn Roundabout bypass and along the transit lane. It is an 80kmh section of road and I guess peak hour slows the journey a fair bit. (I reckon the Bus often belts along about 85kmh in this section of road when traffic allows – excluding slowing down around the Parliament House bend and for the traffic lights near the Croquet club)

Looking at the proposed LR route plan and the average speed capability of the new LR vehicles, how is the Light Rail going to compete with the existing ACTION performance from Woden to Civic?

The Gold Coast Tram takes 22 minutes to travel the same 7km distance from the Hospital to Surfers paradise North.

I am concerned the proposed Civic to Woden Light Rail will actually be a fair bit slower than the current ACTION Bus service. This surely can’t be a viable and attractive solution for Public transport users in Woden?

When has a slower public transport option ever increased use and patronage?

The notion of a bus sharing roads with Canberra’s numpty motorists at significant speed against a light rail vehicle on a dedicated right of way does not deserve comparison. I reguarly travel between Woden and Civic by bus, and to be frank the thought of a mishap between a bus carrying 100 people at a notionally governed 88 km/h provides little comfort.

Damien Haas said :

chewy14 said :

Exactly the reason why the government should have charged a direct levy on landholders along all light rail routes to help pay for it.

How far each side of the corridor do you propose for this levy? Do businesses and homeowners pay a levy?

It was an idea that was never considered seriously by government, and dismissed formally before the business case was released for Stage One.

Yes, and the main reason it was dismissed is because of an upcoming election and the fact that they needed the votes along the stage 1 route to win that election. Buying those votes with a massive publically funded boost to their property prices worked a treat in the inner north and Gungahlin.

There would be many options for charging such a levy but I would have it charged on a sliding scale out to between 500m-1000m from the route. Over a period of 5 years around construction.

It would be levied on all landholders, similar to the current lease variation charge to reflect the windfall gain received by property owners.

chewy14 said :

Exactly the reason why the government should have charged a direct levy on landholders along all light rail routes to help pay for it.

How far each side of the corridor do you propose for this levy? Do businesses and homeowners pay a levy?

It was an idea that was never considered seriously by government, and dismissed formally before the business case was released for Stage One.

chewy14 said :

As with the first stage, this isn’t about public transport, it’s about “urban renewal” or regeneration or whatever they want to call it today.

There are multiple drivers – improving transport options and urban renewal are pretty good reasons for a city that is growing. Road congestion out of Woden and Weston Creek is increasing, and will no matter how any more roads are built.

Damien Haas said :

Investment or ownership?

Landbanking doesnt help anyone, except an owner waiting for urban regeneration so they can benefit from others work.

goggles13 said :

Damien Haas said :

The Woden Town Centre desperately needs private investment

There has been private investment in Albemarle and Alexander Buildings and this has resulted in them being derelict for seven years

Exactly the reason why the government should have charged a direct levy on landholders along all light rail routes to help pay for it.

Investment or ownership?

Landbanking doesnt help anyone, except an owner waiting for urban regeneration so they can benefit from others work.

goggles13 said :

Damien Haas said :

The Woden Town Centre desperately needs private investment

There has been private investment in Albemarle and Alexander Buildings and this has resulted in them being derelict for seven years

bj_ACT said :

My peak hour bus this morning took exactly 7 minutes 12 seconds to travel from the Phillip Pool stop to the Albert Hall stop this morning? It is 6.9km in distance so I guess that roughly means the bus travelled at almost 60kmh on average through the Yarra Glenn Roundabout bypass and along the transit lane. It is an 80kmh section of road and I guess peak hour slows the journey a fair bit. (I reckon the Bus often belts along about 85kmh in this section of road when traffic allows – excluding slowing down around the Parliament House bend and for the traffic lights near the Croquet club)

Looking at the proposed LR route plan and the average speed capability of the new LR vehicles, how is the Light Rail going to compete with the existing ACTION performance from Woden to Civic?

The Gold Coast Tram takes 22 minutes to travel the same 7km distance from the Hospital to Surfers paradise North.

I am concerned the proposed Civic to Woden Light Rail will actually be a fair bit slower than the current ACTION Bus service. This surely can’t be a viable and attractive solution for Public transport users in Woden?

When has a slower public transport option ever increased use and patronage?

As with the first stage, this isn’t about public transport, it’s about “urban renewal” or regeneration or whatever they want to call it today.

bj_ACT said :

My peak hour bus this morning took exactly 7 minutes 12 seconds to travel from the Phillip Pool stop to the Albert Hall stop this morning? It is 6.9km in distance so I guess that roughly means the bus travelled at almost 60kmh on average through the Yarra Glenn Roundabout bypass and along the transit lane. It is an 80kmh section of road and I guess peak hour slows the journey a fair bit. (I reckon the Bus often belts along about 85kmh in this section of road when traffic allows – excluding slowing down around the Parliament House bend and for the traffic lights near the Croquet club)

Looking at the proposed LR route plan and the average speed capability of the new LR vehicles, how is the Light Rail going to compete with the existing ACTION performance from Woden to Civic?

The Gold Coast Tram takes 22 minutes to travel the same 7km distance from the Hospital to Surfers paradise North.

I am concerned the proposed Civic to Woden Light Rail will actually be a fair bit slower than the current ACTION Bus service. This surely can’t be a viable and attractive solution for Public transport users in Woden?

When has a slower public transport option ever increased use and patronage?

Melbourne?

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/waiting-for-better-tram-times-is-like–waiting-for-a-tram-20140528-394jw.html