New sex and gender diversity legislation introduced today

Robertson said :

nobody said :

At these odds we may all know someone who is gender diverse.

Indeed, the ANU’s own unforgettable:
http://www.michellesullivan.org/

For some more factual information

On the subject of factual.. UC, not ANU…

When reading my above comment, remove one specifically in the second sentence. Your choice as to which one.

Robertson said :

I pay rates in order to get water, roads and garbage collected.
I don’t pay rates so an army of underemployed third-raters can indulge in their legislative experiments with social engineering that benefits nobody.

It does benefit some people. Specifically, those people that this legislation is specifically directed toward. It benefits them greatly. What it doesn’t do is harm anyone. So I’m not quite sure why you’re getting your knickers quite so twisted.

nobody said :

At these odds we may all know someone who is gender diverse.

Indeed, the ANU’s own unforgettable:
http://www.michellesullivan.org/

For some more factual information than what is provided in your links:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21364939
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23324476

apstoo said :

Why must I hide who I am day in and day out just to survive?

It’s called discretion, and at some point most people grow up and learn to keep their private lives to themselves. For most people, being boring is easy. For others, it takes some effort.

Here’s the thing though: many people are not married, many people don’t go to the swimming pool, and I’m sure most don’t give a flying ^%$# if the ABS knows they exist or not. Things are fine without these things. You just don’t need them.
So stop trying to get a rise out of people by focusing on crap that doesn’t matter and learn to live a peaceful life.

I pay rates in order to get water, roads and garbage collected.
I don’t pay rates so an army of underemployed third-raters can indulge in their legislative experiments with social engineering that benefits nobody.

Beyond Blue released an e-handbook last week, full of useful information for individuals, families, and friends who through circumstance need to deal with LGBTI issues.
Families Like Mine – http://familieslikemine.beyondblue.org.au/#folio=1

There is a section on Gender Diversity, which would be a good read for the ignorant who have posted, and also a good read for those struggling with gender diversity themselves.
Gender Diversity – http://familieslikemine.beyondblue.org.au/#folio=28

The e-booklet covers prevalence, stating 1 in 150 have strong and persistent feelings they are the wrong gender, and 1 in 500 will transition with surgery to another gender.
At these odds we may all know someone who is gender diverse.

apstoo said :

Why is it that so called normal people treat people who are different like s***?

Normal people don’t – I suppose that’s why you said “so-called”. The arseholes who oppose this are anything but normal.

Why is it that so called normal people treat people who are different like s***? How can you justify your actions? Is it even remotely fair to harass someone because of the way they were born? Because I was born with a genetic difference I have had to put up with constant harassment and bullying from narrow minded individuals. I can’t wear the clothing I’d prefer to because when I have people have attacked me. I can’t be myself. I can’t go to a pub because drunken idiots harass men and make unwelcome insults and ask rude and stupid questions like “Are you a man or a woman?”. I’ve now twice been attacked in pubs. Staff did NOTHING to stop it and the second time when I complained about harassment they told me to piss off. I’ve been harassed at a local Canberra swimming pool and again, the staff joined in. I’ve missed out on jobs and job promotions because I don’t fit in the so called “normal” image of gender. I’ve been turned away from homeless shelters because they can’t figure out how to accommodate me. I’ve been told I don’t exist by the Australian Bureau of Statistics. It is illegal for me to get married to anyone at all in this country because marriage is “between a man and a woman to the exclusion of all others”. Even here in the ACT the new law allowing gay marriage deliberately did not include allowances for Intersex people. I’ve had doctors perform unnecessary surgeries on me. I have had doctors lie to my face about all sorts of things. I’ve been sexually abuse and assaulted by bigots, narrow minded idiots and even APS co-workers. I’ve been physically assaulted in places you’d normally consider safe. I’ve twice had people try to kill me.
All because I don’t fit into the gender stereotypes.
So what gives you people the right to do that? What gives you the right too treat me like s*** CONSTANTLY? What gives you bigots on the Riot Act the right to treat people who are different like crap? Di you treat Downs syndrome people like that? What about disabled people? What about people from different countries? I expect you would, because I have found that bigots usually don’t stop harassing people based on just one difference.
To all of you people posting that you hate gender diverse people, wake up you yourselves. You are a bigot, no matter how you try to justify it. Why don’t you stop and think about the harm you are doing? How can you justify treating someone like shit and putting them through hell because they were born different from you? Why must I hide who I am day in and day out just to survive?

Sorry, I really do need to express myself more precisely. I was exploring the implications of CraigT’s extraordinary statement that trans people are just trying to stir up trouble for fun and profit and pointing put that such a hypothetical person would be even more in need of help than what we understand a transgendered or intersex person to be, although the nature of that help would be very different.

I’m told than transgendered people require medical and legal support and I accept that the experts and transgendered people know what they are talking about.

I’m pointing out that CraigT’s hypothetical transfaker would be such a bizarre individual that the psychological support required would be staggering.

Basically I’m making fun of the transfaker premise and debunking the conclusion that transfakers deserve “no sympathy.”

And for the record, I have no opinion on the science of transsexualism and transgender but my human opinion is that it sounds really difficult and anyone going through that struggle deserves whatever help we as a society can reasonably provide in their very best interests.

BimboGeek said :

CraigT said :

I’m perfectly happy if people with genuine medical problems get taxpayer-funded surgery to sort them out.

If you are XXY, and somebody has registered you as “Male” or “Female” and it turns out that was a bad approximation, then by all means, have your birth certificate changed and have taxpayer-funded surgery. Not a problem.

But if you’re just trying to spit in society’s eye by being difficult, no sympathy.

Do you really think people are doing this?

Like, it’s one thing to demand taxpayer funding for your “dodgy back” or your “groundbreaking sculpture” but do you really think people are actually changing their sex just to amuse themselves for free?

I imagine that changing the person’s sex would actually be cheaper than identifying and treating whatever made them think that having their reproductive organs mutilated would be fun.

It would be like throwing a bum a “bugger off and leave me alone” dollar, but for epic mental health problems.

So trans people are just crazy according to you, Bimbogeek?

CraigT said :

I’m perfectly happy if people with genuine medical problems get taxpayer-funded surgery to sort them out.

If you are XXY, and somebody has registered you as “Male” or “Female” and it turns out that was a bad approximation, then by all means, have your birth certificate changed and have taxpayer-funded surgery. Not a problem.

But if you’re just trying to spit in society’s eye by being difficult, no sympathy.

Do you really think people are doing this?

Like, it’s one thing to demand taxpayer funding for your “dodgy back” or your “groundbreaking sculpture” but do you really think people are actually changing their sex just to amuse themselves for free?

I imagine that changing the person’s sex would actually be cheaper than identifying and treating whatever made them think that having their reproductive organs mutilated would be fun.

It would be like throwing a bum a “bugger off and leave me alone” dollar, but for epic mental health problems.

🙂 Most excellent. Like all governments, ours screws up regularly, but this makes me proud to be a Canberran. Well done, grubbyment.

Antagonist said :

apstoo said :

… blah blah …

If you are going to argue on the Internet do it like a pro and check your facts first.

If you want to appear both credible and intelligent anywhere, do it like a pro and stop referencing Wikipedia.

And maybe he could stop calling rare chromosomal abnormalities something there is “plenty” of.

I’m perfectly happy if people with genuine medical problems get taxpayer-funded surgery to sort them out.

If you are XXY, and somebody has registered you as “Male” or “Female” and it turns out that was a bad approximation, then by all means, have your birth certificate changed and have taxpayer-funded surgery. Not a problem.

But if you’re just trying to spit in society’s eye by being difficult, no sympathy.

snoopydoc said :

So would you describe an XY karyotyped individual with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome as male, or female?

Male.

The vast majority of people suffering from AIS don’t go prancing around in frocks.

thebrownstreak69 said :

Barcham said :

You are entitled to your opinions, and we welcome you to share them here. However if you cannot find a way to state them without name calling or obviously seeking to cause offence then you are not entitled to share them here.

And yet we have many threads riddled with personal attacks and nasty insults, including from site moderators.

That said, if you are actually able to moderate in this way, Riot ACT will be better for it.

The thing is, if it’s fact then it’s neither a insult or a attack.

apstoo said :

… blah blah …

If you are going to argue on the Internet do it like a pro and check your facts first.

If you want to appear both credible and intelligent anywhere, do it like a pro and stop referencing Wikipedia.

Solidarity said :

Jeez, all I said was that males have Y chromosomes and females don’t, nothing about denying people the ability to identify as whatever the hell they want…

I think some people on here are too willing to jump on the offensive without thinking things through… Males have Y chromosomes and females don’t. That’s just the way it is, bureaucracy can’t change that… It wasn’t my decision to make humans that way…

Some have YYX others XXY. XXY usually appear as women without the internal plumbing.

Its all usually a compromise between egalitarianism and genetic elitism.

I really disliked the parents who are changing their little boy into a little woman because he liked playing with dolls and pink things. Don’t children normally like what they see and witness in their environment (mother was of course a single mum, low income), because we will teach courses on transgender kids, and ignore the fact there is very little gender difference. It screams out that there is something seriously and totally wrong with this world.

Solidarity said :

Jeez, all I said was that males have Y chromosomes and females don’t, nothing about denying people the ability to identify as whatever the hell they want…

I think some people on here are too willing to jump on the offensive without thinking things through… Males have Y chromosomes and females don’t. That’s just the way it is, bureaucracy can’t change that… It wasn’t my decision to make humans that way…

I agree that some people are too sensitive and quick to hide behind the ‘you are a bully/bigot/whatever’ flag. *Constructive* discussion and debate is necessary, so harden the f**k up!

Now about the Y chromosome thing …

XX-XY = humans (ignoring those people I know people with XXX, XXY and XYY).
XX-XO = insects. I guess there is no such thing as a male insect?
ZZ-ZW = birds, some reptiles. It seems my pet Galah is neither male nor female.

Once upon a time I might have agreed with you, but it seems the world is not X and Y, black and white, or any other oversimplification for that matter. It is time people pulled their collective heads out of the sand and educated themselves.

Roundhead89 said :

This is ridiculous. The whole female impersonator thing was started as a stage act by Carlotta in the late 1960s and it was only ever intended as a joke. It wasn’t real. To now have people mutilating their bodies and having the law encouraging this is tragic.

Hate to rain on your parade, but I am pretty sure Carlotta was the first person in Australia to undergo ‘gender reassignment’. She asked to have it done in Australia, and was reluctantly granted her wish after threatening to go to an Asian country to have it done regardless of the decision of surgeons here. It has never been a joke. As her autobiography says: “He did it her way”.

Solidarity said :

Jeez, all I said was that males have Y chromosomes and females don’t, nothing about denying people the ability to identify as whatever the hell they want…

I think some people on here are too willing to jump on the offensive without thinking things through… Males have Y chromosomes and females don’t. That’s just the way it is, bureaucracy can’t change that… It wasn’t my decision to make humans that way…

Ahh, you are not quite correct there Solidarity. Plenty of females have a Y chromosone;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y_chromosome#Variations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome
To quote the latter article;
Androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS) is a condition that results in the partial or complete inability of the cell to respond to androgens.[1][2][3] The unresponsiveness of the cell to the presence of androgenic hormones can impair or prevent the masculinization of male genitalia in the developing fetus, as well as the development of male secondary sexual characteristics at puberty, but does not significantly impair female genital or sexual development.[3][4] As such, the insensitivity to androgens is clinically significant only when it occurs in genetic males (i.e. individuals with a Y-chromosome, or more specifically, an SRY gene).[1] Clinical phenotypes in these individuals range from a normal male habitus with mild spermatogenic defect or reduced secondary terminal hair, to a full female habitus, despite the presence of a Y-chromosome.[1][5][6][7][8][9]

If you are going to argue on the Internet do it like a pro and check your facts first.

Watson said :

I know this is a public forum that promotes free speech, but are there any consequences for posters blatantly violating anti-discrimination legislation? Wouldn’t the moderators reject blatantly racist posts for example? And if so, shouldn’t the same rule apply to someone calling someone with a genetic disorder “faulty”?

It makes me feel very uncomfortable, to say the least.

It would make a very interesting piece of case law and legal precedent that’s for sure. Personally I think Barcham is doing a good thing by trying to let both sides have a say, and I think he is doing that pretty well. But it could be productive to get together with the mob from the Eagle’s nest to say “Hey, can we take you to court for a nominal sum of say $1 with pro-bono lawyers just to get some legal prcedence in place and by the way some one seems to have dropped $1 on the floor. It’s not mine.”
Then the next time some bigot did decided to post abusive crap on an Australian forum abusing gender diverse people they could be charged / sued and the legal precedence would be in place to slap tthem down.

Solidarity said :

Jeez, all I said was that males have Y chromosomes and females don’t, nothing about denying people the ability to identify as whatever the hell they want…

I think some people on here are too willing to jump on the offensive without thinking things through… Males have Y chromosomes and females don’t. That’s just the way it is, bureaucracy can’t change that… It wasn’t my decision to make humans that way…

So would you describe an XY karyotyped individual with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome as male, or female?

Jeez, all I said was that males have Y chromosomes and females don’t, nothing about denying people the ability to identify as whatever the hell they want…

I think some people on here are too willing to jump on the offensive without thinking things through… Males have Y chromosomes and females don’t. That’s just the way it is, bureaucracy can’t change that… It wasn’t my decision to make humans that way…

Barcham said :

thebrownstreak69 said :

Barcham said :

You are entitled to your opinions, and we welcome you to share them here. However if you cannot find a way to state them without name calling or obviously seeking to cause offence then you are not entitled to share them here.

And yet we have many threads riddled with personal attacks and nasty insults, including from site moderators.

That said, if you are actually able to moderate in this way, Riot ACT will be better for it.

We aren’t perfect, but we’ll try.

It wasn’t criticism of the moderators. I understand the difficulty in finding that balance. I was just wondering about the legal perspective. (I’m also not an expert in the details of anti-discrimination legislation, so not sure if what was written would be illegal in any context.)

Barcham said :

thebrownstreak69 said :

Barcham said :

You are entitled to your opinions, and we welcome you to share them here. However if you cannot find a way to state them without name calling or obviously seeking to cause offence then you are not entitled to share them here.

And yet we have many threads riddled with personal attacks and nasty insults, including from site moderators.

That said, if you are actually able to moderate in this way, Riot ACT will be better for it.

We aren’t perfect, but we’ll try.

I hope you do.

thebrownstreak69 said :

Barcham said :

You are entitled to your opinions, and we welcome you to share them here. However if you cannot find a way to state them without name calling or obviously seeking to cause offence then you are not entitled to share them here.

And yet we have many threads riddled with personal attacks and nasty insults, including from site moderators.

That said, if you are actually able to moderate in this way, Riot ACT will be better for it.

We aren’t perfect, but we’ll try.

Watson said :

And if so, shouldn’t the same rule apply to someone calling someone with a genetic disorder “faulty”?

Are we going to be redefining the word “disorder” to mean “not faulty” now are we?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFBOQzSk14c

Barcham said :

You are entitled to your opinions, and we welcome you to share them here. However if you cannot find a way to state them without name calling or obviously seeking to cause offence then you are not entitled to share them here.

And yet we have many threads riddled with personal attacks and nasty insults, including from site moderators.

That said, if you are actually able to moderate in this way, Riot ACT will be better for it.

The ignorance and bigotry on display in this forum boggles the mind.

DUB said :

Barcham said :

Watson said :

I know this is a public forum that promotes free speech, but are there any consequences for posters blatantly violating anti-discrimination legislation? Wouldn’t the moderators reject blatantly racist posts for example? And if so, shouldn’t the same rule apply to someone calling someone with a genetic disorder “faulty”?

It makes me feel very uncomfortable, to say the least.

The difficulty here lies in finding the balance between not offending people, letting anyone have their say, representing different points of view, and encouraging discussion (and hopefully increasing understanding through that).

I don’t claim to be perfect at finding that balance point yet, and perhaps I’ve let too much bile through the filter, but I do feel it’s important to let both sides have a say… even if one side are being offensively ignorant.

I apologise for making you feel uncomfortable, I’ll keep working on that balance.

Well said Barcham, don’t let the emotionally unbalanced people to influence your work.

I think you misunderstood me.

In fact your previous comment is one of the few I have deleted from this thread.

You are entitled to your opinions, and we welcome you to share them here. However if you cannot find a way to state them without name calling or obviously seeking to cause offence then you are not entitled to share them here.

Barcham said :

Watson said :

I know this is a public forum that promotes free speech, but are there any consequences for posters blatantly violating anti-discrimination legislation? Wouldn’t the moderators reject blatantly racist posts for example? And if so, shouldn’t the same rule apply to someone calling someone with a genetic disorder “faulty”?

It makes me feel very uncomfortable, to say the least.

The difficulty here lies in finding the balance between not offending people, letting anyone have their say, representing different points of view, and encouraging discussion (and hopefully increasing understanding through that).

I don’t claim to be perfect at finding that balance point yet, and perhaps I’ve let too much bile through the filter, but I do feel it’s important to let both sides have a say… even if one side are being offensively ignorant.

I apologise for making you feel uncomfortable, I’ll keep working on that balance.

Well said Barcham, don’t let the emotionally unbalanced people to influence your work.

Watson said :

I know this is a public forum that promotes free speech, but are there any consequences for posters blatantly violating anti-discrimination legislation? Wouldn’t the moderators reject blatantly racist posts for example? And if so, shouldn’t the same rule apply to someone calling someone with a genetic disorder “faulty”?

It makes me feel very uncomfortable, to say the least.

The difficulty here lies in finding the balance between not offending people, letting anyone have their say, representing different points of view, and encouraging discussion (and hopefully increasing understanding through that).

I don’t claim to be perfect at finding that balance point yet, and perhaps I’ve let too much bile through the filter, but I do feel it’s important to let both sides have a say… even if one side are being offensively ignorant.

I apologise for making you feel uncomfortable, I’ll keep working on that balance.

I know this is a public forum that promotes free speech, but are there any consequences for posters blatantly violating anti-discrimination legislation? Wouldn’t the moderators reject blatantly racist posts for example? And if so, shouldn’t the same rule apply to someone calling someone with a genetic disorder “faulty”?

It makes me feel very uncomfortable, to say the least.

Robertson said :

apstoo said :

voytek3 said :

Sorry to point out reality to those people with obvious mental issues but you are either male or female. Whatever you think or surgery is not going to ever change this fact. If you disagree you are wrong.

Hi Voytek3. You are incredibly wrong, and you have just breached the new amendments to the federal sex discrimination act by harassing gender diverse people by stating that they have mental health issues. How about you wake up to yourself? Gender diverse people exist, and yeah, we fit somewhere in between.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3QOTMCVREE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv1yk2Va9qc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNb5RNu25Uk

Why is it that so many hetronormatives think it is okay to harass or discriminate against people who are born different? Do you think it is okay to harass people based on disability, race, eye color, height, age?

Why is it that you people are such bullies? WTF is a “heteronormative”? Somebody who actually grasps reality? Not much of an insult…

It is a plain fact that sex is determined by our DNA. If there’s something going on in your brain that conflicts with your DNA, that would appear to me to be an obvious mental health issue.

Bullying is pretty standard on RiotACT. I’d suggest you get used to it.

Then = than, stupid autocorrect.

Sex, gender, and sexuality are all very different things and carry different qualities, but depending on the policy model you’re using you may want one, some, all, or even an expanded series of definitions.
(DoH has even further classifications then the common series, covering all sorts of permutations)

apstoo said :

Why is it that so many hetronormatives think it is okay to harass or discriminate against people who are born different? Do you think it is okay to harass people based on disability, race, eye color, height, age?

Oh yeah, and I $#@%^&* hate short people. They creep me out. I have to listen to Randy Newman every morning just to get the courage to leave the house.

apstoo said :

voytek3 said :

Sorry to point out reality to those people with obvious mental issues but you are either male or female. Whatever you think or surgery is not going to ever change this fact. If you disagree you are wrong.

Hi Voytek3. You are incredibly wrong, and you have just breached the new amendments to the federal sex discrimination act by harassing gender diverse people by stating that they have mental health issues. How about you wake up to yourself? Gender diverse people exist, and yeah, we fit somewhere in between.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3QOTMCVREE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv1yk2Va9qc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNb5RNu25Uk

Why is it that so many hetronormatives think it is okay to harass or discriminate against people who are born different? Do you think it is okay to harass people based on disability, race, eye color, height, age?

Why is it that you people are such bullies? WTF is a “heteronormative”? Somebody who actually grasps reality? Not much of an insult…

It is a plain fact that sex is determined by our DNA. If there’s something going on in your brain that conflicts with your DNA, that would appear to me to be an obvious mental health issue.

annus_horribilis said :

So what gender are those with XXY chromsomes, and non specific genetalia? They do exist.

People with chromosomal disorders clearly do not belong to either one of the two sexes present in our sexually-differentiated species. Maybe they should be recorded as “N/A”? Or simply “faulty”?

I have no idea why you people confuse “gender” with “sex”, but I suspect you are a/ monoglots, and b/ lacking in science education.

Why does sex need to be recorded? Oh wait it doesn’t.

Solidarity said :

’tis all in the chromosomes.

It’s just like that

And that’s the way it is.

voytek3 said :

Sorry to point out reality to those people with obvious mental issues but you are either male or female. Whatever you think or surgery is not going to ever change this fact. If you disagree you are wrong.

Things are not always black and white in the real world. A friend of mine has a baby with boy chromosomes, externally appears to be female, however has no uterus.

PantsMan said :

F*&k! Me! Dead!

That can be arranged. However, if you enjoy it, it’ll cost you.

voytek3 said :

Sorry to point out reality to those people with obvious mental issues but you are either male or female. Whatever you think or surgery is not going to ever change this fact. If you disagree you are wrong.

Hi Voytek3. You are incredibly wrong, and you have just breached the new amendments to the federal sex discrimination act by harassing gender diverse people by stating that they have mental health issues. How about you wake up to yourself? Gender diverse people exist, and yeah, we fit somewhere in between.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3QOTMCVREE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv1yk2Va9qc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNb5RNu25Uk

Why is it that so many hetronormatives think it is okay to harass or discriminate against people who are born different? Do you think it is okay to harass people based on disability, race, eye color, height, age?

I’m not surprised by the decision, only the reaction of people like PantsMan, Solidaritylidarity and Voytek and even then mostly because _they had their chance to provide input and did nothing_.

E.g.: Bureau of Stats has had a submission round regarding the capture of, classification of, and management of sex, gender, and indigenous codings and related data series for a while, but it closed in February.

At an industry level, the policies of AIHW, Dept of Health, Dept of Human Services, Dept of Social Services, Indigenous Policy, Departments of Justice (prisons), Childcare, WA Health, Hospital Pricing, and other data consuming agencies have all used similar stances for years, but the ACT had been the trigger for a number of these…
Nearly everybody else with an interest has been managing under a Person(sex-biological: Male/Female/Intersex/[Not collected or described adequately], gender-identity: Male/Female/Intersex/[Not collected or described adequately], Intersex ICD-10-AM edit indicator:Y/N/[Unknown]) series of attributes variously since 2003 (when the ACT required the third intersex code), and middle of this year (when Federal policy caught up, but it’s still technically at a Proposal status item in METEOR due to bureaucracy taking _forever_ with the Meteor process…)

If having paper that recognises “Some people have sex organs that are unrecognizable or multiple genitals of more than one sex” is important to a certain group of people, and this change recognises that then for most purple, so be it.

Personally, if it can do the above while also not doing significant harm to the data quality that I need to deliver serviceable data sets and longitudinal series into the hands of policy makers, so that future policy determinations can be drawn from a sound base.
As far as I can tell this law (assuming it functions as intended) improves my job, by allowing base data capture to more precisely represent real world scenarios.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmizVgZrGv8&sns=em

So this law is for parents that wanted a boy, but got a girl or wanted a girl, but got a boy or are hermaphrodites for real .

annus_horribilis said :

annus_horribilis510030″]’tis all in the chromosomes.

It’s just like that

And that’s the way it is.

So what gender are those with XXY chromsomes, and non specific genetalia? They do exist.

KISS – Keep It Simple Stupid. Either you sit down to pee or you stand up…

BimboGeek said :

If you don’t understand it, stop trying to stand in the way of people who are trying to improve the situation.

The most obvious problem here is intersex where a child has been “assigned” a sex or gender that was the wrong guess.

Transsexualism is also potentially caused by intersex physical factors like a flood of hormones in utero causing development as the “wrong” sex or gender. It might also be a purely psychological problem and if reassignment makes the person completely happy then it seems like a pretty simple solution, just like losing weight can stop you feeling crap about your thunder thighs or dyeing your hair can stop people recoiling in horror at your gingerness.

So pipe down and mind your own business.

Yep, nicely said.

If you don’t understand it, stop trying to stand in the way of people who are trying to improve the situation.

The most obvious problem here is intersex where a child has been “assigned” a sex or gender that was the wrong guess.

Transsexualism is also potentially caused by intersex physical factors like a flood of hormones in utero causing development as the “wrong” sex or gender. It might also be a purely psychological problem and if reassignment makes the person completely happy then it seems like a pretty simple solution, just like losing weight can stop you feeling crap about your thunder thighs or dyeing your hair can stop people recoiling in horror at your gingerness.

So pipe down and mind your own business.

Roundhead89 said :

This is ridiculous. The whole female impersonator thing was started as a stage act by Carlotta in the late 1960s and it was only ever intended as a joke. It wasn’t real. To now have people mutilating their bodies and having the law encouraging this is tragic. I’ve said this before on RA but it seems that this very basic biological truth hasn’t been heard in sections of the ACT government so I’ll repeat it: If you are born with a penis you are a male. If you are born with a vagina you are a female. End of story.

Not everyone has it as easy as that. There are only a few, but it is a deeply distressing issue for them, especially if their parents are forced to choose and they choose wrong.

Solidarity said :

’tis all in the chromosomes.

It’s just like that

And that’s the way it is.

Thanks Run-DMC for that incisive commentary.

Roundhead89 said :

This is ridiculous. The whole female impersonator thing was started as a stage act by Carlotta in the late 1960s and it was only ever intended as a joke. It wasn’t real. To now have people mutilating their bodies and having the law encouraging this is tragic. I’ve said this before on RA but it seems that this very basic biological truth hasn’t been heard in sections of the ACT government so I’ll repeat it: If you are born with a penis you are a male. If you are born with a vagina you are a female. End of story.

You forgot:
– If you are blonde, you are dumb
– If you are short and have a penis, you are angry
– If you have a long nose, you are a liar

You get my drift: bring back profiling on the basis of physical characteristics now!

Sigh, why does my quoting never work properly!

annus_horribilis510030″]’tis all in the chromosomes.

It’s just like that

And that’s the way it is.

So what gender are those with XXY chromsomes, and non specific genetalia? They do exist.

This is ridiculous. The whole female impersonator thing was started as a stage act by Carlotta in the late 1960s and it was only ever intended as a joke. It wasn’t real. To now have people mutilating their bodies and having the law encouraging this is tragic. I’ve said this before on RA but it seems that this very basic biological truth hasn’t been heard in sections of the ACT government so I’ll repeat it: If you are born with a penis you are a male. If you are born with a vagina you are a female. End of story.

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Dear Diary

Today PantsMan had sand in his anus because of something the government did.

It was a good day.

Love it!

’tis all in the chromosomes.

It’s just like that

And that’s the way it is.

voytek3 said :

Sorry to point out reality to those people with obvious mental issues but you are either male or female. Whatever you think or surgery is not going to ever change this fact. If you disagree you are wrong.

The argument is over, people. We can all go home now that voytek3 has so thoroughly and convincingly argued his case.

“Although the Births Deaths and Marriages Registration Amendment Bill 2013 affects a relatively small number of people in our community, these changes will have a large and positive impact on this section of the community. Until now, these community members have been unfairly disadvantaged by outmoded restrictions on sex and gender recognition,”

They also do not impact the rest of the community in any adverse way. Very nice work!

PantsMan said :

More pointless pandering to an extreme minority, while Rome (Canberra) burns.

Priorities? FFS!

What a load of hyperbolic rubbish, get over it Pantsman.

Dear Diary

Today PantsMan had sand in his anus because of something the government did.

It was a good day.

PantsMan said :

More pointless pandering to an extreme minority, while Rome (Canberra) burns.

Priorities? FFS!

Another reason to hate conservatives right here

Sorry to point out reality to those people with obvious mental issues but you are either male or female. Whatever you think or surgery is not going to ever change this fact. If you disagree you are wrong.

maxblues said :

If parents will have six months to work out what sex their child is, how long do they have to decide on a name?

So you’ve got 60 days to decide if you want a transgender newborn?

F*&k! Me! Dead!

These guys have gone nuts.

More pointless pandering to an extreme minority, while Rome (Canberra) burns.

Priorities? FFS!

If parents will have six months to work out what sex their child is, how long do they have to decide on a name?