NSW government wants to slow down Kings Highway [with poll]

hotwaterservice said :

Slower drivers are indeed dangerous … they are an obstacle … if one can’t drive appropriately without holding up other traffic one should consider taking a bus or a train. Or learn the age old etiquette of pulling over to let faster traffic past … doesn’t take long and keeps everybody happier.

That said, every driver is responsible for their own actions in driving safely and efficiently.

If the the usual “dashed line” overtaking zones were still in place I would have no problem with the Kings Highway … I know where and when to overtake and spend the minimum of time on the wrong side of the road. Of course I learnt to drive when separated lane highways were not the norm and not always demanded. I prefer to go at night or times of low traffic … the road is so much more fun then.

Are you at odds with yourself here? You say slower drivers are dangerous & then everybody must be responsible for their actions?

If a driver is not confident on a country road it is better for them to go slower, that is being responsible for their actions.

If someone else wants to go faster, then it is their responsibility to give the slower driver space and overtake when they can. If that is 100km then so be it. If there is a congo line, then you have to wait your turn.

Its a fact of life.

What we should not see is what we see regularly & that is impatient people who cannot control themselves passing on blind corners in areas where there is not enough room.

Dont worry, it annoys me when someone does 80, then 95, then 80 & then 100 in an overtaking lane. the difference is, I will sit and wait until it is safe to pass.

Annoying it is, dangerous it is not.

KB1971 said :

Evil_Kitten said :

Thumper said :

Yep. Nothing more to say really.

Dickwards that have to get to the coast in under 60 minutes. There’s your problem and really, there’s nothing anyone can do about it. These idiots are not going to slow down because there’s an 80KM sign, and if they do, they’ll just go faster once they get out of that zone.

Maybe if these idiots were jailed for a year for multiple speeding charges then they’ll slow down and stop driving like maniacs.

Some of us just want to get to the coast in “normal” time. Not high speed runs and not bloody Driving Miss Daisy at 80 in a 100 zone.

When incompetent drivers sit on 80-90km/h and cause an entire congo line of frustrated drivers to be lined up behind them, they are just as much d***wads as the speeding drivers.

Slower drivers are not incompetent, or dangerous. Faster drivers just need to take a pill and pass safely.

Don’t worry, I don’t like to sit behind slower drivers either but I try to pick my spot to pass.

KB1971 said :

Evil_Kitten said :

Thumper said :

When incompetent drivers sit on 80-90km/h and cause an entire congo line of frustrated drivers to be lined up behind them, they are just as much d***wads as the speeding drivers.

Slower drivers are not incompetent, or dangerous. Faster drivers just need to take a pill and pass safely.

Don’t worry, I don’t like to sit behind slower drivers either but I try to pick my spot to pass.

Slower drivers are indeed dangerous … they are an obstacle … if one can’t drive appropriately without holding up other traffic one should consider taking a bus or a train. Or learn the age old etiquette of pulling over to let faster traffic past … doesn’t take long and keeps everybody happier.

That said, every driver is responsible for their own actions in driving safely and efficiently.

If the the usual “dashed line” overtaking zones were still in place I would have no problem with the Kings Highway … I know where and when to overtake and spend the minimum of time on the wrong side of the road. Of course I learnt to drive when separated lane highways were not the norm and not always demanded. I prefer to go at night or times of low traffic … the road is so much more fun then.

bundah said :

As for the stretch coming into Braidwood from the coast side my view is that that should remain unchanged.If the council is so concerned about drivers losing control and running into the poplars well let go of the romanticism and remove them.

That’s actually the plan – the 80 zone is recommended as a temporary measure. From the report:

Lower the speed limit from 100 km/h to 80 km/h
either side of Braidwood for the full length of both
avenues of trees (2.8 km east of the existing
60 km/h zone and approximately 1.5 km on the
Canberra side of Braidwood. This can be a
temporary treatment until a suitable strategy can
be implemented to provide a wider clear zone.

Having travelled that stretch of road somewhere around 500 times in 38 years i would suggest the following:

The stretch approaching Braidwood from the Bungendore end after the overtaking lanes should remain 100 km/h however due to the convex nature of that stretch which limits visibility double yellow lines should be installed.

As for the stretch coming into Braidwood from the coast side my view is that that should remain unchanged.If the council is so concerned about drivers losing control and running into the poplars well let go of the romanticism and remove them.

EvanJames said :

KB1971 said :

Slower drivers are not incompetent, or dangerous. Faster drivers just need to take a pill and pass safely.

Don’t worry, I don’t like to sit behind slower drivers either but I try to pick my spot to pass.

Road attitude makes a difference, I know that there is limited opportunity to pass on the Kings Highway, so I accept that I may get caught up. If I am going to the Sapphire coast via Cooma, there is all the overtaking opportunity in the world so I can keep going at the pace I like.

You need to drive to the conditions & if the conditions include slower drivers then so be it (trust me it has taken me a lot of years of driving to get to this point).

Well said. It’s amusing in a topic like this to see people getting all aggressive about people who drive slower than they want to.

I think we have our crash-causers right there. It’s not the slower drivers crashing, is it?

Nope.

caf said :

thebrownstreak69 said :

caf said :

Here’s a link to the actual Kings Highway Route Safety Review itself, which is where this discussion all stems from.

Interesting that the Safe System Approach diagram on page 10 refers to safer speeds, safer roads and safer vehicles but makes no mention of driver skill (beyond referring to drivers as ‘alert and compliant’).

Other than the box pointing into that labelled Education and information supporting road users, you mean?

Looking at the link, I think education and information applies more to information being supplied, it doesn’t seem to suggest any actual skills development or testing.

For all the dialect regarding driver’s, roads, government fault and so forth, think about the TV series “IRT: Deadliest Roads.”On the most dangerous roads of the world there are no speed limits, no safety barriers, no speed cameras or even tar surface. The drivers don’t take the same risks just to get somewhere on time. Maybe we can take lessons from those that may be considered some of our worst culprits on the roads? A little personal responsibility can go an awful long way – as can a nagging wife in the passenger seat.

Pork Hunt said :

bundah said :

Who remembers the pipe dream from a private enterprise consortium(i think) to build a dual two lane tollway from Canberra to Moruya a couple of decades ago or so?

I don’t. Red wine has fried my brain to the point I can barely walk and chew gum at the same time.
That would be quite an impressive undertaking considering the terrain east of Braidwood and the fact the road would have to go through the Deua National Park.
To borrow a phrase from Little Britain, “the computer says no”…

Hmm the double-edged sword of red wine.I seem to recall,although it’s somewhat hazy due to some other drug of choice,that they were keen but a bit like the VFT needed the gubmint to help out. Ah well seemed like a good idea at the time.The 22nd century is looking good!

bundah said :

Who remembers the pipe dream from a private enterprise consortium(i think) to build a dual two lane tollway from Canberra to Moruya a couple of decades ago or so?

I don’t. Red wine has fried my brain to the point I can barely walk and chew gum at the same time.
That would be quite an impressive undertaking considering the terrain east of Braidwood and the fact the road would have to go through the Deua National Park.
To borrow a phrase from Little Britain, “the computer says no”…

gazket said :

Juliar Gillard has just promised a 4 lane hwy with self guiding lanes to Batemans Bay.

Really are a halfwit arnt you?

Who remembers the pipe dream from a private enterprise consortium(i think) to build a dual two lane tollway from Canberra to Moruya a couple of decades ago or so?

gazket said :

Juliar Gillard has just promised a 4 lane hwy with self guiding lanes to Batemans Bay.

I think you have a blown gazket…

gazket said :

Juliar

Hahaha, good one. You’re very clever!!

Juliar Gillard has just promised a 4 lane hwy with self guiding lanes to Batemans Bay.

thebrownstreak69 said :

caf said :

Here’s a link to the actual Kings Highway Route Safety Review itself, which is where this discussion all stems from.

Interesting that the Safe System Approach diagram on page 10 refers to safer speeds, safer roads and safer vehicles but makes no mention of driver skill (beyond referring to drivers as ‘alert and compliant’).

Other than the box pointing into that labelled Education and information supporting road users, you mean?

c_c™ said :

caf said :

Grail said :

Would you pay $10 for the trip from Canberra to the coast if it meant the potholes would be fixed in a day, and there were rest stops with toilets, toilet paper and clean running water every 20km?

A $10 toll is out by at least an order of magnitude – that’d only fund about $300-400 million worth of improvements, which is probably enough to bring the current road up to a better standard but nowhere near enough to duplicate it. How does a $100 toll sound?

What on earth are you talking about?

What time period is the capital being recouped in your estimate?

That’s not recouping the capital cost at all – it’s based purely on a 5% internal rate of return for the capital. There simply aren’t that many cars using the road.

Consider the Westlink M7, which is considerably shorter and has more than 50 times the traffic – it still has to charge a $7.16 toll.

thebrownstreak69 said :

caf said :

Here’s a link to the actual Kings Highway Route Safety Review itself, which is where this discussion all stems from.

Interesting that the Safe System Approach diagram on page 10 refers to safer speeds, safer roads and safer vehicles but makes no mention of driver skill (beyond referring to drivers as ‘alert and compliant’).

A good point. Surely the wider crash data collected points to driver skill being an issue?

thebrownstreak69 said :

caf said :

Here’s a link to the actual Kings Highway Route Safety Review itself, which is where this discussion all stems from.

Interesting that the Safe System Approach diagram on page 10 refers to safer speeds, safer roads and safer vehicles but makes no mention of driver skill (beyond referring to drivers as ‘alert and compliant’).

I dont think driver skill is within the control of the safety review. Its a bit of a cop out anyway – ‘the road will be safer if drivers are better’. Of course it will; but even drivers with 18 months of drivers education will still make mistakes.

As to the poplar removal, this debate (removal of trees along roads) has been going on for a long time in Europe – many many of their roads were surrounded by trees and you can read up on it if you wish by simply googling. The philosphy is based on the idea of “the right to error” ie the seriousness of an accident should not be exacerbated by the way road verges are configured (or, in other words, should not be exacerbated by a factor that is within the control of the authorities).

The cheapest, although not that cheap, method to prevent very serious accidents is a fence down the middle of the road, plus wider verges plus increased overtaking lanes (see: Tarago road). But it does require wider roads than currently exist.

It is true that the King’s Highway is much better than it used to be, much better than even 15 years ago. But Canberra is much bigger now and I suspect the road use is much greater. Indeed, as the road gets better more people use it.

The other option is to upgrade the Bungendore to Tarago section and Brown Mountain and spread the traffic around.

All that money to be spent on yet another motorway/rail line in sydney should be spent in regional areas…

caf said :

Here’s a link to the actual Kings Highway Route Safety Review itself, which is where this discussion all stems from.

Interesting that the Safe System Approach diagram on page 10 refers to safer speeds, safer roads and safer vehicles but makes no mention of driver skill (beyond referring to drivers as ‘alert and compliant’).

caf said :

Grail said :

Would you pay $10 for the trip from Canberra to the coast if it meant the potholes would be fixed in a day, and there were rest stops with toilets, toilet paper and clean running water every 20km?

A $10 toll is out by at least an order of magnitude – that’d only fund about $300-400 million worth of improvements, which is probably enough to bring the current road up to a better standard but nowhere near enough to duplicate it. How does a $100 toll sound?

What on earth are you talking about?

What time period is the capital being recouped in your estimate?