NSW government wants to slow down Kings Highway [with poll]

Who remembers the pipe dream from a private enterprise consortium(i think) to build a dual two lane tollway from Canberra to Moruya a couple of decades ago or so?

gazket said :

Juliar Gillard has just promised a 4 lane hwy with self guiding lanes to Batemans Bay.

I think you have a blown gazket…

gazket said :

Juliar

Hahaha, good one. You’re very clever!!

Juliar Gillard has just promised a 4 lane hwy with self guiding lanes to Batemans Bay.

thebrownstreak69 said :

caf said :

Here’s a link to the actual Kings Highway Route Safety Review itself, which is where this discussion all stems from.

Interesting that the Safe System Approach diagram on page 10 refers to safer speeds, safer roads and safer vehicles but makes no mention of driver skill (beyond referring to drivers as ‘alert and compliant’).

Other than the box pointing into that labelled Education and information supporting road users, you mean?

c_c™ said :

caf said :

Grail said :

Would you pay $10 for the trip from Canberra to the coast if it meant the potholes would be fixed in a day, and there were rest stops with toilets, toilet paper and clean running water every 20km?

A $10 toll is out by at least an order of magnitude – that’d only fund about $300-400 million worth of improvements, which is probably enough to bring the current road up to a better standard but nowhere near enough to duplicate it. How does a $100 toll sound?

What on earth are you talking about?

What time period is the capital being recouped in your estimate?

That’s not recouping the capital cost at all – it’s based purely on a 5% internal rate of return for the capital. There simply aren’t that many cars using the road.

Consider the Westlink M7, which is considerably shorter and has more than 50 times the traffic – it still has to charge a $7.16 toll.

thebrownstreak69 said :

caf said :

Here’s a link to the actual Kings Highway Route Safety Review itself, which is where this discussion all stems from.

Interesting that the Safe System Approach diagram on page 10 refers to safer speeds, safer roads and safer vehicles but makes no mention of driver skill (beyond referring to drivers as ‘alert and compliant’).

A good point. Surely the wider crash data collected points to driver skill being an issue?

thebrownstreak69 said :

caf said :

Here’s a link to the actual Kings Highway Route Safety Review itself, which is where this discussion all stems from.

Interesting that the Safe System Approach diagram on page 10 refers to safer speeds, safer roads and safer vehicles but makes no mention of driver skill (beyond referring to drivers as ‘alert and compliant’).

I dont think driver skill is within the control of the safety review. Its a bit of a cop out anyway – ‘the road will be safer if drivers are better’. Of course it will; but even drivers with 18 months of drivers education will still make mistakes.

As to the poplar removal, this debate (removal of trees along roads) has been going on for a long time in Europe – many many of their roads were surrounded by trees and you can read up on it if you wish by simply googling. The philosphy is based on the idea of “the right to error” ie the seriousness of an accident should not be exacerbated by the way road verges are configured (or, in other words, should not be exacerbated by a factor that is within the control of the authorities).

The cheapest, although not that cheap, method to prevent very serious accidents is a fence down the middle of the road, plus wider verges plus increased overtaking lanes (see: Tarago road). But it does require wider roads than currently exist.

It is true that the King’s Highway is much better than it used to be, much better than even 15 years ago. But Canberra is much bigger now and I suspect the road use is much greater. Indeed, as the road gets better more people use it.

The other option is to upgrade the Bungendore to Tarago section and Brown Mountain and spread the traffic around.

All that money to be spent on yet another motorway/rail line in sydney should be spent in regional areas…

caf said :

Here’s a link to the actual Kings Highway Route Safety Review itself, which is where this discussion all stems from.

Interesting that the Safe System Approach diagram on page 10 refers to safer speeds, safer roads and safer vehicles but makes no mention of driver skill (beyond referring to drivers as ‘alert and compliant’).

caf said :

Grail said :

Would you pay $10 for the trip from Canberra to the coast if it meant the potholes would be fixed in a day, and there were rest stops with toilets, toilet paper and clean running water every 20km?

A $10 toll is out by at least an order of magnitude – that’d only fund about $300-400 million worth of improvements, which is probably enough to bring the current road up to a better standard but nowhere near enough to duplicate it. How does a $100 toll sound?

What on earth are you talking about?

What time period is the capital being recouped in your estimate?

Here’s a link to the actual Kings Highway Route Safety Review itself, which is where this discussion all stems from.

Grail said :

Would you pay $10 for the trip from Canberra to the coast if it meant the potholes would be fixed in a day, and there were rest stops with toilets, toilet paper and clean running water every 20km?

A $10 toll is out by at least an order of magnitude – that’d only fund about $300-400 million worth of improvements, which is probably enough to bring the current road up to a better standard but nowhere near enough to duplicate it. How does a $100 toll sound?

magiccar9 said :

So they’re trying to tell us that 38 people in 12 years is astonishing….
That averages out to approx 3 per year. Google maps tells me that the run from Queanbeyan to Batemans Bay is 135km. Correct me if I’m wrong but given the probable thousands of people that use the road every year, I reckon an average of 3 p/a isn’t too bad. Compare this to the annual road toll for NSW every year (2012 road toll was 370 people) and I think that there are other more concerning areas to focus on.
Don’t get me wrong though, any loss of life is tragic. I just wanted to throw some figures into the ring as it seems people are missing the stats and only looking at the shock and awe of the big -38- number.

For it’s entire length, the average number of casualty crashes on the Kings Highway is marginally better than the statewide average for this class of road.

Between Braidwood and Batemans Bay, average crash rates are almost double the state average.

At the very end of the highway within Eurobodall, the accident rate is 40% higher than the Princes Highway.

rosscoact said :

magiccar9 said :

So they’re trying to tell us that 38 people in 12 years is astonishing….
That averages out to approx 3 per year. Google maps tells me that the run from Queanbeyan to Batemans Bay is 135km. Correct me if I’m wrong but given the probable thousands of people that use the road every year, I reckon an average of 3 p/a isn’t too bad. Compare this to the annual road toll for NSW every year (2012 road toll was 370 people) and I think that there are other more concerning areas to focus on.
Don’t get me wrong though, any loss of life is tragic. I just wanted to throw some figures into the ring as it seems people are missing the stats and only looking at the shock and awe of the big -38- number.

doesnt that work out to be abou 1% of all NSW road deaths happen on this 135k? that seems like quite a lot

No wait, I misread the quote. My bad, as you were

Grail said :

Duplicating the Kings Highway and adding rest stops (just like the Hume from Goulburn to Sydney) could be funded through introducing a toll system. There is also the opportunity to introduce a safety camera system: a variant on a point-to-point system which ends up issuing a fine to cars that make the trip from Canberra to Batemans Bay in less than an hour and a half (because either you didn’t take safety stops or you were speeding).

Would you pay $10 for the trip from Canberra to the coast if it meant the potholes would be fixed in a day, and there were rest stops with toilets, toilet paper and clean running water every 20km?

I think you make a good point. One of the contentious issues on improving the highway is the ACT doesn’t want to cough up despite Canberrans being big users, NSW doesn’t (and really can’t) cough up, the the Commonwealth, well.

I think a Toll Road would be a solution and I would gladly pay if it comes with significant upgrades to justify it.

Duplicating the Kings Highway and adding rest stops (just like the Hume from Goulburn to Sydney) could be funded through introducing a toll system. There is also the opportunity to introduce a safety camera system: a variant on a point-to-point system which ends up issuing a fine to cars that make the trip from Canberra to Batemans Bay in less than an hour and a half (because either you didn’t take safety stops or you were speeding).

Would you pay $10 for the trip from Canberra to the coast if it meant the potholes would be fixed in a day, and there were rest stops with toilets, toilet paper and clean running water every 20km?

Such a tremendously stupid move. Speed has been a factor in a huge proportion of Kings Highway accidents, true.

If those speeding and causing accidents weren’t following the signposted limits before, what makes them think they will now?

It’s a broke government trying to look like they’re doing something when they’re not. The road needs significant remediation work.

Thumper said :

Exactly, but it’s f*cktards that get frustrated and try to overtake when they shouldn’t.

Simple as that.

So true, every single trip I see at least half a dozen close calls from people overtaking when they shouldn’t. Worst cases I see involve people driving slowly then speeding up as someone overtakes when they should otherwise have time to do so, but are blocked by the silly bugger. Other times, there are those who clearly don’t have the time but go into oncoming traffic anyway resulting in a heap of honking and braking.

Big thing though I see is so few drivers are able to stay in their lane. So many drift over on corners, and a surprising number drift over centre even on the straights. On such a thin road past Braidwood, you’ve got no where to go if someone oncoming does that, particularly in the Clyde.

The NSW RMS have project pages for “Road side hazards – Kings Highway, Braidwood” and the Kings Highway Road Safety Review, which both have some relevant information to this discussion.

In particular the former says:

As part of the Kings Highway Road Safety Review, the Minister for Roads and Ports announced the existing 100km/h speed limit on the Kings Highway for the full length of both avenues of trees (2.8km east of the existing 50km/h zone and approximately 1.5km on the Canberra side of Braidwood) will be reduced to 80km/h. This will be a temporary treatment until a suitable strategy can be implemented to provide protection from the hazards.

The workshop presentation for the safety review includes a lot of statistics, including some that debunk the “it’s city drivers that are the problem” assumption – NSW country and local drivers are more likely to be involved in accidents on the route.

EvanJames said :

Population growth requires greater expenditure on infrastructure as old infrastructure is no longer adequate for the numbers, yet revenue available does not match the growth in population. We’re seeing this again and again.

I know how they can solve this one! Bang in some speed cameras and lower the speed limit. Oh wait….

KB1971 said :

Slower drivers are not incompetent, or dangerous. Faster drivers just need to take a pill and pass safely.

Don’t worry, I don’t like to sit behind slower drivers either but I try to pick my spot to pass.

Road attitude makes a difference, I know that there is limited opportunity to pass on the Kings Highway, so I accept that I may get caught up. If I am going to the Sapphire coast via Cooma, there is all the overtaking opportunity in the world so I can keep going at the pace I like.

You need to drive to the conditions & if the conditions include slower drivers then so be it (trust me it has taken me a lot of years of driving to get to this point).

Well said. It’s amusing in a topic like this to see people getting all aggressive about people who drive slower than they want to.

I think we have our crash-causers right there. It’s not the slower drivers crashing, is it?

38 people have died since 2000? That makes it more dangerous than the Ayers Rock climb where 35 people have died since people first started climbing it!

We’ve used this road since the 60s, actaully my parents probably used it before then too. Back when the bridge over the Clyde River at Nelligen wasn’t there, you had to catch a car punt over the river. The road seemed quite adequate then, and since the 60s it’s been widened and straightened and overtaking lanes put in and all kinds of things. The bit of raod down/up the Clyde Mountain has really improved.

So why the rise in crashes? It can only be greater numbers of people using the road, and perhaps more of them are town/city based, with poorer driving skills on this kind of road.

Greater numbers of people is due to the population growing, which is always touted as A Good Thing. Yet this is another example of how money needs to be found to improve the road, and that money does not appear to exist. Population growth requires greater expenditure on infrastructure as old infrastructure is no longer adequate for the numbers, yet revenue available does not match the growth in population. We’re seeing this again and again.

magiccar9 said :

So they’re trying to tell us that 38 people in 12 years is astonishing….
That averages out to approx 3 per year. Google maps tells me that the run from Queanbeyan to Batemans Bay is 135km. Correct me if I’m wrong but given the probable thousands of people that use the road every year, I reckon an average of 3 p/a isn’t too bad. Compare this to the annual road toll for NSW every year (2012 road toll was 370 people) and I think that there are other more concerning areas to focus on.
Don’t get me wrong though, any loss of life is tragic. I just wanted to throw some figures into the ring as it seems people are missing the stats and only looking at the shock and awe of the big -38- number.

doesnt that work out to be abou 1% of all NSW road deaths happen on this 135k? that seems like quite a lot

bundah said :

…given that there has been conclusive research that a small percentage of car accidents are disguised as traffic accidents.

Well, it would be hard to tell the difference.

hotwaterservice said :

Of course, a lot of Canberrans aren’t used to normal roads – expecting lane separated freeways – and still have trouble with those (e.g. Tuggeranong Distressway as my ex used to call it!). So they don’t give the road the respect it deserves and don’t have the experience driving on such normal roads; being a dinosaur, I’m used to non lane separated roads and the distinct preference to spend little (or no time at all) on the wrong side of the road. Head on collisions tend to ruin one’s day. Canberrans tend to be a bit sheltered from real driving – hence occasional Kings Highway drive leads to higher accident rate than normal for the road that it is..

I am not sure of the breakdown, but certainly a lot of the people injured and killed are from NSW. Its not just Canberrans, so your swipe at it being a Canberra driver problem is missing the point a bit

There is a table here with casualty figures for NSW highwaysfor 2005-2009 (does not include Kings Highway, however). shows that in absolute terms the Kings Highway is not the most dangerous, but I would think in relative terms (per user) it would be at least toward the middle or upper end. Also shows just how much safer dual carriageways are (eg the Federal and Barton highways)

http://www.mynrma.com.au/about/media/pacific-highway-is-the-state-most-dangerous-road-ausrap-report.htm

magiccar9 said :

So they’re trying to tell us that 38 people in 12 years is astonishing….
That averages out to approx 3 per year. Google maps tells me that the run from Queanbeyan to Batemans Bay is 135km. Correct me if I’m wrong but given the probable thousands of people that use the road every year, I reckon an average of 3 p/a isn’t too bad. Compare this to the annual road toll for NSW every year (2012 road toll was 370 people) and I think that there are other more concerning areas to focus on.
Don’t get me wrong though, any loss of life is tragic. I just wanted to throw some figures into the ring as it seems people are missing the stats and only looking at the shock and awe of the big -38- number.

You have used common sense, logic and reason in this debate. Don’t expect to be offered a job with the NSW RTA anytime soon.

So they’re trying to tell us that 38 people in 12 years is astonishing….
That averages out to approx 3 per year. Google maps tells me that the run from Queanbeyan to Batemans Bay is 135km. Correct me if I’m wrong but given the probable thousands of people that use the road every year, I reckon an average of 3 p/a isn’t too bad. Compare this to the annual road toll for NSW every year (2012 road toll was 370 people) and I think that there are other more concerning areas to focus on.
Don’t get me wrong though, any loss of life is tragic. I just wanted to throw some figures into the ring as it seems people are missing the stats and only looking at the shock and awe of the big -38- number.

Masquara said :

johnboy said :

It’s either drop the speed of cut down the poplars if I know NSW roads people.

Braidwood won’t be the same without those French poplars. They are amazing and make driving into Braidwood a real joy. Would I rather Mully or the poplars survive? Definitely the trees.

My vote is for the trees.

caf said :

KB1971 said :

We read about the poplars in the CT lest week end when we were at Nellegen and my wife and I were talking about it on the way into Braidwood. We only saw one memorial which indicated that the poplars are not really that dangerous.

Does anyone have any stats on how many people those poplars have killed over the years?

Do you have a link? There is nothing in the ABC report, I’m just curious.

Over the period that the safety review looked at (2007-2011 and part of 2012) there were 14 fatal accidents, of which 4 were in those areas (2 on the north side of Braidwood and 2 on the south side).

Nothing really wrong with the Kings Highway. A perfectly good stretch of road. Without clueless traffic one can make it down to the coast or back to Canberra in a relatively safe and enjoyable fashion – the scenery is a delight (though one needs to focus on the road – it demands respect).

Of course, a lot of Canberrans aren’t used to normal roads – expecting lane separated freeways – and still have trouble with those (e.g. Tuggeranong Distressway as my ex used to call it!). So they don’t give the road the respect it deserves and don’t have the experience driving on such normal roads; being a dinosaur, I’m used to non lane separated roads and the distinct preference to spend little (or no time at all) on the wrong side of the road. Head on collisions tend to ruin one’s day. Canberrans tend to be a bit sheltered from real driving – hence occasional Kings Highway drive leads to higher accident rate than normal for the road that it is.

Since licensing standards in Australia (and the ACT) are rather pitiful (compare with Germany) we don’t have drivers who can cope with normal road situations let alone unusual ones. Thus, I’ve noticed the progression of solid double lines over the last 30+ years as nobody seems to know how to overtake safely without a dedicated overtaking lane. It’s a touch annoying for those of use who know how and when to overtake but such is the situation on the Kings Highway these days. If I have to travel along it these days, I’d prefer to do it in the early morning or late at night – less incompetent drivers (dawdling or otherwise) to deal with.

bundah said :

The problem is exacerbated when the incompetent drivers who fluctuate their speed between 80 to 100 km/h on the single lane stretches then accelerate up to 110 on the overtaking lanes! It’s little wonder road rage rears its ugly head with that type of farktardary!

SPOT ON.

bundah said :

The problem is exacerbated when the incompetent drivers who fluctuate their speed between 80 to 100 km/h on the single lane stretches then accelerate up to 110 on the overtaking lanes! It’s little wonder road rage rears its ugly head with that type of farktardary!

Huh, yes, I was busted (100km/h in a 90 zone) while trying to overtake one of these, who sped up as I was overtaking and, well, I was busted…

I think a few more overtaking lanes – there are almost none between the top of the Clyde and Braidwood (particularly coming back to Canberra). Plus a Braidwood bypass – over any weekend the traffic builds up and builds up and by the time people are through Braidwood they are worked up.

johnboy said :

It’s either drop the speed of cut down the poplars if I know NSW roads people.

Braidwood won’t be the same without those French poplars. They are amazing and make driving into Braidwood a real joy. Would I rather Mully or the poplars survive? Definitely the trees.

Evil_Kitten said :

Thumper said :

Yep. Nothing more to say really.

Dickwards that have to get to the coast in under 60 minutes. There’s your problem and really, there’s nothing anyone can do about it. These idiots are not going to slow down because there’s an 80KM sign, and if they do, they’ll just go faster once they get out of that zone.

Maybe if these idiots were jailed for a year for multiple speeding charges then they’ll slow down and stop driving like maniacs.

Some of us just want to get to the coast in “normal” time. Not high speed runs and not bloody Driving Miss Daisy at 80 in a 100 zone.

When incompetent drivers sit on 80-90km/h and cause an entire congo line of frustrated drivers to be lined up behind them, they are just as much d***wads as the speeding drivers.

The problem is exacerbated when the incompetent drivers who fluctuate their speed between 80 to 100 km/h on the single lane stretches then accelerate up to 110 on the overtaking lanes! It’s little wonder road rage rears its ugly head with that type of farktardary!

Evil_Kitten said :

Thumper said :

Yep. Nothing more to say really.

Dickwards that have to get to the coast in under 60 minutes. There’s your problem and really, there’s nothing anyone can do about it. These idiots are not going to slow down because there’s an 80KM sign, and if they do, they’ll just go faster once they get out of that zone.

Maybe if these idiots were jailed for a year for multiple speeding charges then they’ll slow down and stop driving like maniacs.

Some of us just want to get to the coast in “normal” time. Not high speed runs and not bloody Driving Miss Daisy at 80 in a 100 zone.

When incompetent drivers sit on 80-90km/h and cause an entire congo line of frustrated drivers to be lined up behind them, they are just as much d***wads as the speeding drivers.

Exactly, but it’s f*cktards that get frustrated and try to overtake when they shouldn’t.

Simple as that.

Evil_Kitten said :

Thumper said :

Yep. Nothing more to say really.

Dickwards that have to get to the coast in under 60 minutes. There’s your problem and really, there’s nothing anyone can do about it. These idiots are not going to slow down because there’s an 80KM sign, and if they do, they’ll just go faster once they get out of that zone.

Maybe if these idiots were jailed for a year for multiple speeding charges then they’ll slow down and stop driving like maniacs.

Some of us just want to get to the coast in “normal” time. Not high speed runs and not bloody Driving Miss Daisy at 80 in a 100 zone.

When incompetent drivers sit on 80-90km/h and cause an entire congo line of frustrated drivers to be lined up behind them, they are just as much d***wads as the speeding drivers.

Slower drivers are not incompetent, or dangerous. Faster drivers just need to take a pill and pass safely.

Don’t worry, I don’t like to sit behind slower drivers either but I try to pick my spot to pass.

Road attitude makes a difference, I know that there is limited opportunity to pass on the Kings Highway, so I accept that I may get caught up. If I am going to the Sapphire coast via Cooma, there is all the overtaking opportunity in the world so I can keep going at the pace I like.

You need to drive to the conditions & if the conditions include slower drivers then so be it (trust me it has taken me a lot of years of driving to get to this point).

Thumper said :

Yep. Nothing more to say really.

Dickwards that have to get to the coast in under 60 minutes. There’s your problem and really, there’s nothing anyone can do about it. These idiots are not going to slow down because there’s an 80KM sign, and if they do, they’ll just go faster once they get out of that zone.

Maybe if these idiots were jailed for a year for multiple speeding charges then they’ll slow down and stop driving like maniacs.

Some of us just want to get to the coast in “normal” time. Not high speed runs and not bloody Driving Miss Daisy at 80 in a 100 zone.

When incompetent drivers sit on 80-90km/h and cause an entire congo line of frustrated drivers to be lined up behind them, they are just as much d***wads as the speeding drivers.

bundah said :

Deckard said :

From memory most of the crashes that have happened in the poplars are due to people falling asleep at the wheel or people going way faster than the speed limit. Lowering the speed limit won’t help either of those situations.

Still, a reduction would warn those that it is a bit dangerous. Perhaps 90km/h would be a better cruising speed along that stretch.

How do we know that people fell asleep at the wheel.I wonder whether any consideration has been given to the possibility that some may have been suicides given that there has been conclusive research that a small percentage of car accidents are disguised as traffic accidents.The real percentage of suicides among car accidents is not reliably known; studies by suicide researchers tell that “vehicular fatalities that are suicides vary from 1.6% to 5%”.

Excellent points although I’m sure the stats for vehicular suicides are more likely in and around city areas. I had a friend who died coming into Braidwood from the coast direction, he had reportedly fallen asleep according to the injuries he had sustained and the schedule he was trying to keep… There are plenty of crosses on the straight coming into town at least from the coast direction although those trees heal and grow back quite quickly leaving little trace. Much of the time they hide the memorials as they grow.
I also don’t think the speed reduction would assist in a reduction, common sense injections for drivers would probably work better. Compulsory roadside screenings?

KB1971 said :

We read about the poplars in the CT lest week end when we were at Nellegen and my wife and I were talking about it on the way into Braidwood. We only saw one memorial which indicated that the poplars are not really that dangerous.

Does anyone have any stats on how many people those poplars have killed over the years?

Over the period that the safety review looked at (2007-2011 and part of 2012) there were 14 fatal accidents, of which 4 were in those areas (2 on the north side of Braidwood and 2 on the south side).

High speed rail to the Bay will fix everything.

Deckard said :

From memory most of the crashes that have happened in the poplars are due to people falling asleep at the wheel or people going way faster than the speed limit. Lowering the speed limit won’t help either of those situations.

Still, a reduction would warn those that it is a bit dangerous. Perhaps 90km/h would be a better cruising speed along that stretch.

How do we know that people fell asleep at the wheel.I wonder whether any consideration has been given to the possibility that some may have been suicides given that there has been conclusive research that a small percentage of car accidents are disguised as traffic accidents.The real percentage of suicides among car accidents is not reliably known; studies by suicide researchers tell that “vehicular fatalities that are suicides vary from 1.6% to 5%”.

Thumper said :

thebrownstreak69 said :

The problem is not speeding, it’s idiots who don’t know how to drive. Crazy overtaking (blind bends and crests), wandering out of lanes, driving too quickly when it’s wet, tailgating, motorbikes hammering past at 160km/h plus, etc.

Yep. Nothing more to say really.

Dickwards that have to get to the coast in under 60 minutes. There’s your problem and really, there’s nothing anyone can do about it. These idiots are not going to slow down because there’s an 80KM sign, and if they do, they’ll just go faster once they get out of that zone.

Maybe if these idiots were jailed for a year for multiple speeding charges then they’ll slow down and stop driving like maniacs.

There were two fatals and a couple of other accidents between Braidwood and the Clyde last year when we were down there on the Canberra day LWE last year. One of the fatals was in a reduced zone (90km/h that used to be 100 incidentally) so no, I don’t think the lower speed zones work in certain areas.

Better driver education is the key. People who learn to drive in the city do not know how to handle vehicles at speed on the highway.

We read about the poplars in the CT lest week end when we were at Nellegen and my wife and I were talking about it on the way into Braidwood. We only saw one memorial which indicated that the poplars are not really that dangerous.

Does anyone have any stats on how many people those poplars have killed over the years?

I cant really see how they are any more dangerous than any other tree in the 160km stretch to the Bay.

Thumper said :

caf said :

Thumper said :

You know, and beat me down with a large stick if I’m wrong, the highway could be duplicated?

Crazy talk, I know….

They’ve only just finished duplicating the Hume Highway – it’s a pricey exercise. So if you have a few billion lying around that you’d like to kick in then I’m sure that can happen.

If I coul tax the f*ck out of people as much as the feds and state governments do, then yes, I’d have plenty of money to kick in.

But it’s not NSW, Newcastle, Sydney, Woolongong, so there’s no hope.

What would you cut to pay for it? If there was that kind of spare dough available for the roads budget, you can bet that the Pacific Highway would be first in line – for the entirely sensible reason that the number of lives saved there would be significantly greater.

Face it, duplicating the entire Kings Highway is an unaffordable pipe dream, advocated by those who believe in a Magic Pudding approach to government spending.

From memory most of the crashes that have happened in the poplars are due to people falling asleep at the wheel or people going way faster than the speed limit. Lowering the speed limit won’t help either of those situations.

Still, a reduction would warn those that it is a bit dangerous. Perhaps 90km/h would be a better cruising speed along that stretch.

Also wouldn’t hurt to get the farmers to fix their fences. I have been involved, through work, with a few cars/bikes versus cow accidents. The bike riders, in particulary, don’t come out of that well.

thebrownstreak69 said :

The problem is not speeding, it’s idiots who don’t know how to drive. Crazy overtaking (blind bends and crests), wandering out of lanes, driving too quickly when it’s wet, tailgating, motorbikes hammering past at 160km/h plus, etc.

Yep. Nothing more to say really.

Dickwards that have to get to the coast in under 60 minutes. There’s your problem and really, there’s nothing anyone can do about it. These idiots are not going to slow down because there’s an 80KM sign, and if they do, they’ll just go faster once they get out of that zone.

Maybe if these idiots were jailed for a year for multiple speeding charges then they’ll slow down and stop driving like maniacs.

caf said :

“on either side of Braidwood, where recent fatalities took place” clearly means the short stretches where the poplars line the road just before the 60 zones start on either side of town.

I don’t see a problem reducing the limit there to 80.

according to the Crimes:

“The speed limit for 1.5km on the Canberra side of Braidwood and 2.8km on the coastal side will be lowered from 100km/hour to 80km/hour by mid-year.”

More money wasted on an utterly pointless exercise. Lower speed linits are not the answer as the retards who speed now will still speed when lower limits are introduced. The common sense solution is simply more overtaking lanes so the retards dont cause the accidents they currently do in thier impatience to squeeze past the traffic in front.

Yes this will work. Head on collisions from failed impatient overtaking at 160 kmh are obviously more survivable than head on collisions from failed impatient overtaking at 200 kmh.

There is an engineering solution here – upgrade the entire road.

If necessary abandon the current road and build a safer one that can handle the current and anticipated traffic volumes.

The problem is not speeding, it’s idiots who don’t know how to drive. Crazy overtaking (blind bends and crests), wandering out of lanes, driving too quickly when it’s wet, tailgating, motorbikes hammering past at 160km/h plus, etc.

johnboy said :

It’s either drop the speed of cut down the poplars if I know NSW roads people.

From what I heard on the radio this morning, they’re planning on doing both – at least some of the poplars anyway.

caf said :

They’ve only just finished duplicating the Hume Highway – it’s a pricey exercise. So if you have a few billion lying around that you’d like to kick in then I’m sure that can happen.

No they haven’t – it’s still down to single lane each way near and through Holbrook.

And I spelt Wollongong incorrectly 🙁

caf said :

Thumper said :

You know, and beat me down with a large stick if I’m wrong, the highway could be duplicated?

Crazy talk, I know….

They’ve only just finished duplicating the Hume Highway – it’s a pricey exercise. So if you have a few billion lying around that you’d like to kick in then I’m sure that can happen.

If I coul tax the f*ck out of people as much as the feds and state governments do, then yes, I’d have plenty of money to kick in.

But it’s not NSW, Newcastle, Sydney, Woolongong, so there’s no hope.

caf said :

Thumper said :

You know, and beat me down with a large stick if I’m wrong, the highway could be duplicated?

Crazy talk, I know….

They’ve only just finished duplicating the Hume Highway – it’s a pricey exercise. So if you have a few billion lying around that you’d like to kick in then I’m sure that can happen.

I already pay for roadworks through petrol tax. The various Govts choose not to use it for that purpose!

Reducing the speed along the stretch either side of Braidwood will only cause more frustration.Speed isn’t the major problem and never has been. The simple reality is that there are those who are incompetent ie.have poor driving skills who have been given a licence and are a danger to themselves and other road users because they’re clueless.If we could get rid of them,problem solved,however that will never happen because there are way too many fcukwits in power who are apathetic.

Everyone just needs to relax really. Sick of morons who can’t drive, most of them in “softroaders”

great news, should have been done years ago.
all we need is more police in the area to enforce the road rules to ensure that the wankers out there get caught or change there driving habits for the good of everyone

caf said :

Thumper said :

You know, and beat me down with a large stick if I’m wrong, the highway could be duplicated?

Crazy talk, I know….

They’ve only just finished duplicating the Hume Highway – it’s a pricey exercise. So if you have a few billion lying around that you’d like to kick in then I’m sure that can happen.

Of course much of the problem is that there aren’t all that many votes in it for the NSW government since so many of the people that use the road are Canberrans. We would be so much better off if we were simply a part of NSW, with a normal local council and representation in the NSW parliament.

Thumper said :

You know, and beat me down with a large stick if I’m wrong, the highway could be duplicated?

Crazy talk, I know….

They’ve only just finished duplicating the Hume Highway – it’s a pricey exercise. So if you have a few billion lying around that you’d like to kick in then I’m sure that can happen.

“on either side of Braidwood, where recent fatalities took place” clearly means the short stretches where the poplars line the road just before the 60 zones start on either side of town.

I don’t see a problem reducing the limit there to 80.

The road apart from Macs Reef isn’t too bad. What the NSW Gov should do is abolish the ridiculous 70km/hr for L platers. Besides the frustration and danger for other motorists these kids have to learn!!!

Thumper said :

You know, and beat me down with a large stick if I’m wrong, the highway could be duplicated?

Crazy talk, I know….

of course it can be duplicated – at least either side of clyde mountain. that’s just a more expensive option vs changing a few speed signs.

but we often hear about how much road accidents cost, so if the govt wants to save money, they might have to spend money to make the road safer (i.e. duplicating it)

the reduced speed limits are going to make things worse, not better.

It’s 2013 already, where’s my Jetpack?!

You know, and beat me down with a large stick if I’m wrong, the highway could be duplicated?

Crazy talk, I know….

I can read between the lines – NSW Government wants to decrease speed limits to make more revenue from speed cameras. It isn’t the speed that causes crashes on the highway, but lack of speed which in turn frustrates other drivers who aren’t in control of their emotional facilities, to the point they erupt into a road demon who goes over double whites in order to resume doing the speed limit. How many road fatalities occur where there are ample overtaking opportunities on roads with 100km/h speed zones, compared to roads where double whites run for tens of kilometres? Can anyone find this out?

Not often I’m tempted to use the word f**kwits in a post but this time I feel compelled to. I mean seriously, where do these morons spring from?

However if they are just talking about a short stretch up to the showgound on the north side and a similar distance out to the east, then I imagine it might do some good. Anything more draconian would surely be counter-productive, as the impatient and angry ones take more risks as a result.

Most drivers I saw on the weekend were travelling below the posted speed limit.

It’s always the minority that f*** it up for everyone else.

I am getting so sick of the draconian traffic rules – namely speed limits – and heavy-handed policing of them in this country.

Fuck the police.

I tend to think the slowing down the speed limit might help a little – if there are sufficient visible police to make the majority actually do the limit – but I also tend to think that enough morons will then go extra fast down the mountain that they will cancel out the stats with their impact into some immovable (or going the other way) object further on in the trip.

I don’t really know what to do though. Perhaps make the Kings Highway one way, with returning traffic coming back via Brown Mountain?