16 August 2012

Prison needle exchange to be pushed ahead

| johnboy
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There’s no media release yet available to the likes of us, but the ABC has the word a needle exchange at the Alexander Maconochie Centre is going to be trialled.

(Bear in mind that in the ACT a “trial” is not about testing the idea, it’s about testing the implentation.)

The decision is part of a new health strategy to tackle blood-borne viruses at the jail.

Last year a report to the Government recommended an exchange but the union for prison guards has been staunchly opposed, raising safety concerns.

Chief Minister Katy Gallagher has outlined her strategy to a health conference.


UPDATE 15/08/12 10:22: The Health Directorate has now published a draft framework for management of blood-borne viruses.


UPDATE 15/08/12 11:27: The Greens have expressed their joy:

ACT Greens Health and Corrections spokesperson Amanda Bresnan has today welcomed the Government’s decision to introduce a needle and syringe program (NSP) at the AMC.

The ACT Greens have campaigned for an NSP to be established since the opening of Canberra’s prison and published a discussion paper in 2010 outlining evidence from overseas prisons with NSPs.

“This is something the Greens have been calling for over a number of years and we are very pleased that the Government is now also supporting this. It is a win for evidence-based policy over using this issue as a political football,” Ms Bresnan said today.


UPDATE 15/08/12 12:30: The CPSU is a bit concerned:

“It is important to note that the Government is not proposing a full needle and syringe exchange program, but wants to trial a ‘one-for-one’ medical model which would see doctors, not politicians, as the decision makers.

“We are keen to find out more about this approach and will work with the relevant Government agencies to examine the full implications for prison staff, inmates and the broader community.

“While the CPSU has an open mind on these new proposals, we also have an obligation to ensure that any new measures address our members’ long-standing and well-documented health and safety concerns around a needle exchange program.


UPDATE 15/08/12 13:02: The Liberals’ Jeremy Hanson is reflexively agin’ it:

Katy Gallagher’s announcement today that she will establish a needle exchange at the ACT jail gives Canberrans a clear choice at the upcoming election in October. A vote for Labor or the Greens is a vote for a needle exchange at the jail and only a vote for the Canberra Liberals will prevent this flawed policy, according to ACT Shadow Health and Corrections Minister Jeremy Hanson.

“The Government?s own report found that a needle exchange will lead to the “quasilegalisation of drug use within the correctional centre? (Hamburger Report 12.1) and this is now a major point of difference between the parties as we go into the election,” Mr Hanson said.


UPDATE 15/08/12 17:29: The Chief Minister’s release is now online:

“By halting the spread of blood borne viruses in the AMC we stop them spreading further in the community when prisoners are released and go back to their family and friends,” the Chief Minister said.

“Stopping blood borne viruses spreading in the AMC ensures the health services we have in the wider community are consistently applied.”

The strategy covers educating prisoners about the spread of blood borne viruses, steps to cut off the supply of drugs in the prison, treatment and screening, and provides access to needle and syringe programs, which have been proven to be successful in the wider community, on a trial basis.


UPDATE 16/08/12 09:48: The Chief Minister has blogged the audio of her speech on this subject.

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Yes it is stupid situation we have got ourselves into by saying some drugs are ok (legal) and some are not (illegal); and it is not evidence based at all, or alcohol and tobacco would be illegal. The stupidity costs the community a vast amount in money and resources and achieves nothing.

Re no drugs in prison, just saw this:
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/opinion/no-drugs-in-prison-a-big-ask-20120902-2586h.html

“A harsh regime to prevent contraband from entering would be worse than the existing problem…”

Does this mean the ‘existing problem’ isn’t that a big deal, or keeping AMC drug-free would cause a massive problem, or a bit of both? Please discuss.

HenryBG said :

Can somebody remind me how many new infections of Hep/AIDS occurred in the last 12 months due to sharing of needles inside?

Too many.

Pity, your usual cogent argument ruined by that last dumb comment. Unless of course immunoassays have advanced sufficiently to be able to identify the manner of transmission?

HenryBG said :

Additionally, the “exchange” model you are describing clearly represents an incentive to smuggle needles into gaol, and as I’m not going to be the only person to realise this, it’s perfectly obvious that the one-for-one approach will not be adhered to by those administering it: the only way to get a needle is to have a needle, thus encouraging smuggling.

I had to read that para a number of times to recognise how truely dumb it really is. No offence mate, but sheeeesh!! Those administering the program will be doctors and it’s highly unlikely rather than perfectly obvious that they will misuse their authority in any way at all.

You’re wrong about incentive too as the one-for-one approach will create no greater incentive than the current situation. Those who want to use needles and those who want to profit from their supply in prison will have the same incentive that they do right now.

As new needles will replace old needles, the model will not change the number in circulation in any way. Furthermore, given a new needle will only be made available to someone who already has an old needle in their possession, the prison will not be made any less safe for that prisoner or anybody else.

As the one-for-one transaction will take place between a doctor and patient in the privacy of a consulting room, nobody else needs to be involved in the scheme in any way. Therefore nobody else is complicit or condoning anyone else’s actions. This leaves the guards in exactly the same role that they have now … find drugs, find needles, confiscate drugs, confiscate needles.

And given that the provision of sterile needles has been proven to NOT increase drug use both in the community and in prisons where needle exchanges currently exist, the level of drug use isn’t going to differ from the levels of drug use now. In fact the opposite is most likely given that people wanting a clean needle will have to consult with their doctor to do it. In prisons overseas with a needle exchange, these programs have been proven to increase referral to drug treatment.

HenryBG said :

Additionally, how do you enforce any requirement that a prisoner give up its needle upon release? You can’t.[/unquote]

A prisoner is a person, not an “it”. The answer to your question is, of course, under the one-for-one the prison authorities will have exactly the same options available to them as they have now to force prisoners to give up needles.

HenryBG said :

Eventually the reality will be that any prisoner who wants one will be issued one. One or more.

Under a one-for-one exchange, a prisoner will have to surrender a syringe to get a new one. You knew that of course and are clutching at straws to make an argument.

HenryBG said :

Good luck to anybody whose job is to guard a prison full of smacked-out crims armed with blood-filled syringes.

Of course they’ll have no more drugs available to them than they do now and they’ll have no more needles available to them than they have now and they’ll be no more “smacked out” than they are now, so I guess you’re argument is sinking pretty fast.

For those still playing at home, you’ll have realised that the only thing likely to change with the introduction of this one-for-one needle exchange is the number of infectious needles in circulation. That’s why the model is so clever. The guards said a needle and syringe program would flood the gaol with needles, so Gallagher listened to them and found a model that wouldn’t change the status quo. The guards said that they should not be made to be complicit in illegal behaviour. Gallagher listened to them and found a model under which they would not even need to know. The guards said that prisoners would be “smacked out” and more dangerous, but prison needle exchanges don’t increase drug use and the provision of clean needles doesn’t make drugs magically appear from thin air. On all their key concerns, the guards have got their way.

So with their arguments in tatters, some balaclava wearing prison guard on ABC7:30 tonight pleaded that we should wait until the prison had been open for 5 years before a needle exchange is piloted, ‘cos by then things would be running properly and presumably the system that’s to-date been unable to keep drugs and needles out would miraculously be on top of things. As if.

HenryBG said :

Can somebody remind me how many new infections of Hep/AIDS occurred in the last 12 months due to sharing of needles inside?

Too many.

bundah said :

kakosi said :

bundah said :

Mrs_Potato_Head said :

kakosi said :

Make it harder by putting in cameras into every room of the prison, including the guard facilities. Film everyone 24/7 to catch the people using and bringing in the drugs. Then arrest them and put them into jail also.

To keep the bastards honest, have the people viewing the surveillance not part of the prison system.

I agree 100% with you. The sad truth is that officers wanted more cameras, along with the repair of many that don’t work, for safety an security reasons. But the Executive Director told staff that there were already too many cameras in the centre and she was not going to spend money on more cameras.

Criticism of the officers at the AMC by some of you on this site should cease. As should the media beat ups. I’ve said before my husband comes home after some shifts an emotional wreck. The relentless bullying from management and the unsafe procedures implemented just to keep loud mouthed minorities happy with no regards to the safety of staff.

Unless you know how this environment works, and I’m sure that 99% of you have know idea, then keep your opinions to yourselves.

If my partner constantly came home an emotional wreck due to unacceptable work pressures i would be encouraging them to find employment elsewhere.

You want honest guards to stay in the system and not leave due to unacceptable and poor work practices.

It’s one thing to be altruistic but if remaining in a work environment negatively impacts on one’s mental health then the prudent thing to do would be to remove oneself from that environment.

bundah said :

kakosi said :

bundah said :

Mrs_Potato_Head said :

kakosi said :

Make it harder by putting in cameras into every room of the prison, including the guard facilities. Film everyone 24/7 to catch the people using and bringing in the drugs. Then arrest them and put them into jail also.

To keep the bastards honest, have the people viewing the surveillance not part of the prison system.

I agree 100% with you. The sad truth is that officers wanted more cameras, along with the repair of many that don’t work, for safety an security reasons. But the Executive Director told staff that there were already too many cameras in the centre and she was not going to spend money on more cameras.

Criticism of the officers at the AMC by some of you on this site should cease. As should the media beat ups. I’ve said before my husband comes home after some shifts an emotional wreck. The relentless bullying from management and the unsafe procedures implemented just to keep loud mouthed minorities happy with no regards to the safety of staff.

Unless you know how this environment works, and I’m sure that 99% of you have know idea, then keep your opinions to yourselves.

If my partner constantly came home an emotional wreck due to unacceptable work pressures i would be encouraging them to find employment elsewhere.

You want honest guards to stay in the system and not leave due to unacceptable and poor work practices.

It’s one thing to be altruistic but if remaining in a work environment negatively impacts on one’s mental health then the prudent thing to do would be to remove oneself from that environment.

You are assuming that people have an easy choice to find another job. Mortgages and family responsibilities stop most people from throwing in the towel.

kakosi said :

bundah said :

Mrs_Potato_Head said :

kakosi said :

Make it harder by putting in cameras into every room of the prison, including the guard facilities. Film everyone 24/7 to catch the people using and bringing in the drugs. Then arrest them and put them into jail also.

To keep the bastards honest, have the people viewing the surveillance not part of the prison system.

I agree 100% with you. The sad truth is that officers wanted more cameras, along with the repair of many that don’t work, for safety an security reasons. But the Executive Director told staff that there were already too many cameras in the centre and she was not going to spend money on more cameras.

Criticism of the officers at the AMC by some of you on this site should cease. As should the media beat ups. I’ve said before my husband comes home after some shifts an emotional wreck. The relentless bullying from management and the unsafe procedures implemented just to keep loud mouthed minorities happy with no regards to the safety of staff.

Unless you know how this environment works, and I’m sure that 99% of you have know idea, then keep your opinions to yourselves.

If my partner constantly came home an emotional wreck due to unacceptable work pressures i would be encouraging them to find employment elsewhere.

You want honest guards to stay in the system and not leave due to unacceptable and poor work practices.

It’s one thing to be altruistic but if remaining in a work environment negatively impacts on one’s mental health then the prudent thing to do would be to remove oneself from that environment.

bundah said :

Mrs_Potato_Head said :

kakosi said :

Make it harder by putting in cameras into every room of the prison, including the guard facilities. Film everyone 24/7 to catch the people using and bringing in the drugs. Then arrest them and put them into jail also.

To keep the bastards honest, have the people viewing the surveillance not part of the prison system.

I agree 100% with you. The sad truth is that officers wanted more cameras, along with the repair of many that don’t work, for safety an security reasons. But the Executive Director told staff that there were already too many cameras in the centre and she was not going to spend money on more cameras.

Criticism of the officers at the AMC by some of you on this site should cease. As should the media beat ups. I’ve said before my husband comes home after some shifts an emotional wreck. The relentless bullying from management and the unsafe procedures implemented just to keep loud mouthed minorities happy with no regards to the safety of staff.

Unless you know how this environment works, and I’m sure that 99% of you have know idea, then keep your opinions to yourselves.

If my partner constantly came home an emotional wreck due to unacceptable work pressures i would be encouraging them to find employment elsewhere.

You want honest guards to stay in the system and not leave due to unacceptable and poor work practices.

Mrs_Potato_Head said :

kakosi said :

Make it harder by putting in cameras into every room of the prison, including the guard facilities. Film everyone 24/7 to catch the people using and bringing in the drugs. Then arrest them and put them into jail also.

To keep the bastards honest, have the people viewing the surveillance not part of the prison system.

I agree 100% with you. The sad truth is that officers wanted more cameras, along with the repair of many that don’t work, for safety an security reasons. But the Executive Director told staff that there were already too many cameras in the centre and she was not going to spend money on more cameras.

Criticism of the officers at the AMC by some of you on this site should cease. As should the media beat ups. I’ve said before my husband comes home after some shifts an emotional wreck. The relentless bullying from management and the unsafe procedures implemented just to keep loud mouthed minorities happy with no regards to the safety of staff.

Unless you know how this environment works, and I’m sure that 99% of you have know idea, then keep your opinions to yourselves.

If my partner constantly came home an emotional wreck due to unacceptable work pressures i would be encouraging them to find employment elsewhere.

kakosi said :

When you consider how cheap surveillance cameras are these days you have to wonder what the real problem is. A small camera could easily be placed in every room. Perhaps the Executive Director at the prison and the Minister are more afraid of what will be found out than the safety of guards and prisoners? How can you possibly have too many cameras in a prison?

…or a Hospital admin building?
Nah, I really don’t think the ALP would like *more* of what goes on becoming a matter of public record….

Mrs_Potato_Head said :

kakosi said :

Make it harder by putting in cameras into every room of the prison, including the guard facilities. Film everyone 24/7 to catch the people using and bringing in the drugs. Then arrest them and put them into jail also.

To keep the bastards honest, have the people viewing the surveillance not part of the prison system.

I agree 100% with you. The sad truth is that officers wanted more cameras, along with the repair of many that don’t work, for safety an security reasons. But the Executive Director told staff that there were already too many cameras in the centre and she was not going to spend money on more cameras.

Criticism of the officers at the AMC by some of you on this site should cease. As should the media beat ups. I’ve said before my husband comes home after some shifts an emotional wreck. The relentless bullying from management and the unsafe procedures implemented just to keep loud mouthed minorities happy with no regards to the safety of staff.

Unless you know how this environment works, and I’m sure that 99% of you have know idea, then keep your opinions to yourselves.

When you consider how cheap surveillance cameras are these days you have to wonder what the real problem is. A small camera could easily be placed in every room. Perhaps the Executive Director at the prison and the Minister are more afraid of what will be found out than the safety of guards and prisoners? How can you possibly have too many cameras in a prison?

HenryBG said :

rah rah communists rah rah

Mrs_Potato_Head said :

…. the Executive Director told staff that there were already too many cameras in the centre and she was not going to spend money on more cameras.

Clearly politics are involved, and just as clearly the intention is to make the AMC unsafe and insecure in order to justify mindless leftie ideology.

Mrs_Potato_Head said :

kakosi said :

Make it harder by putting in cameras into every room of the prison, including the guard facilities. Film everyone 24/7 to catch the people using and bringing in the drugs. Then arrest them and put them into jail also.

To keep the bastards honest, have the people viewing the surveillance not part of the prison system.

I agree 100% with you. The sad truth is that officers wanted more cameras, along with the repair of many that don’t work, for safety an security reasons. But the Executive Director told staff that there were already too many cameras in the centre and she was not going to spend money on more cameras.

Criticism of the officers at the AMC by some of you on this site should cease. As should the media beat ups. I’ve said before my husband comes home after some shifts an emotional wreck. The relentless bullying from management and the unsafe procedures implemented just to keep loud mouthed minorities happy with no regards to the safety of staff.

Unless you know how this environment works, and I’m sure that 99% of you have know idea, then keep your opinions to yourselves.

This story was interesting:
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/escape-not-so-great-as-chilly-prisoners-ask-to-go-back-behind-bars-20120823-24pe8.html

Two things stuck out to me:
“Two prisoners used fire and hidden pitchforks to break out of their cells, cut through interior fences, and come worryingly close to making the Alexander Maconochie Centre’s first successful escape earlier this month.”

Hidden pitchforks?!?! In a prison??

“Fearing the prisoners were armed with a sharp object, guards gathered batons and flexi-cuffs for the ensuing search…. The guards’ decision to equip themselves with batons initially drew criticism from one of their superiors, who reprimanded them for not seeking approval first.”

Awesome! Go find the dudes with ‘hidden pitchforks’, but don’t think of taking a baton with you!!

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd10:02 am 24 Aug 12

Mrs_Potato_Head said :

kakosi said :

Make it harder by putting in cameras into every room of the prison, including the guard facilities. Film everyone 24/7 to catch the people using and bringing in the drugs. Then arrest them and put them into jail also.

To keep the bastards honest, have the people viewing the surveillance not part of the prison system.

I agree 100% with you. The sad truth is that officers wanted more cameras, along with the repair of many that don’t work, for safety an security reasons. But the Executive Director told staff that there were already too many cameras in the centre and she was not going to spend money on more cameras.

Criticism of the officers at the AMC by some of you on this site should cease. As should the media beat ups. I’ve said before my husband comes home after some shifts an emotional wreck. The relentless bullying from management and the unsafe procedures implemented just to keep loud mouthed minorities happy with no regards to the safety of staff.

Unless you know how this environment works, and I’m sure that 99% of you have know idea, then keep your opinions to yourselves.

Maybe tell your husband to tell his mates to stop bringing drugs in???
They are the ones putting your husband at risk.

Mrs_Potato_Head9:14 am 24 Aug 12

kakosi said :

Make it harder by putting in cameras into every room of the prison, including the guard facilities. Film everyone 24/7 to catch the people using and bringing in the drugs. Then arrest them and put them into jail also.

To keep the bastards honest, have the people viewing the surveillance not part of the prison system.

I agree 100% with you. The sad truth is that officers wanted more cameras, along with the repair of many that don’t work, for safety an security reasons. But the Executive Director told staff that there were already too many cameras in the centre and she was not going to spend money on more cameras.

Criticism of the officers at the AMC by some of you on this site should cease. As should the media beat ups. I’ve said before my husband comes home after some shifts an emotional wreck. The relentless bullying from management and the unsafe procedures implemented just to keep loud mouthed minorities happy with no regards to the safety of staff.

Unless you know how this environment works, and I’m sure that 99% of you have know idea, then keep your opinions to yourselves.

Make it harder by putting in cameras into every room of the prison, including the guard facilities. Film everyone 24/7 to catch the people using and bringing in the drugs. Then arrest them and put them into jail also.

To keep the bastards honest, have the people viewing the surveillance not part of the prison system.

HenryBG said :

Aeek said :

Replacing smuggled needles with needles that the authorities have selected, say selected for not being very good as a weapon, is bad how?

What, like non-pointy needles?

I’ve just had a brilliant idea! Let’s remove needles from all the prisoners, so they have no needles, so they can’t use them as weapons!

That is working so well isn’t it?

Non pointy, no, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_syringe could be worthwhile.

It was a spectacularly stupid idea to involve the prison officers in the exchange program.
They need to remain free to crack down on drugs. That would have compromised both.

HenryBG said :

Aeek said :

HenryBG said :

the only way to get a needle is to have a needle, thus encouraging smuggling.

Sounds like the current model.

Er, kinda my point….

Aeek said :

Replacing smuggled needles with needles that the authorities have selected, say selected for not being very good as a weapon, is bad how?

What, like non-pointy needles?

I’ve just had a brilliant idea! Let’s remove needles from all the prisoners, so they have no needles, so they can’t use them as weapons!

Aeek said :

Being able to test the returned needles for diseases is bad how?

WTF??? Why would you want to implement a dangerous and stupid scheme encouraging drug use in prison in order to test needles when you can just test the junkies that are right there in front of you.
If they fail a test – it means they have a needle: strip them, throw them in a bare concrete room, strip their cell, keep them there until the needle is recovered. Then segregate them. Repeat for anybody else who fails the drug test.
End of problem.

Not quite there is one small problem it’s called the Human Rights Act. That’ll fark ya every time.

Aeek said :

HenryBG said :

the only way to get a needle is to have a needle, thus encouraging smuggling.

Sounds like the current model.

Er, kinda my point….

Aeek said :

Replacing smuggled needles with needles that the authorities have selected, say selected for not being very good as a weapon, is bad how?

What, like non-pointy needles?

I’ve just had a brilliant idea! Let’s remove needles from all the prisoners, so they have no needles, so they can’t use them as weapons!

Aeek said :

Being able to test the returned needles for diseases is bad how?

WTF??? Why would you want to implement a dangerous and stupid scheme encouraging drug use in prison in order to test needles when you can just test the junkies that are right there in front of you.
If they fail a test – it means they have a needle: strip them, throw them in a bare concrete room, strip their cell, keep them there until the needle is recovered. Then segregate them. Repeat for anybody else who fails the drug test.
End of problem.

Giving prisoners needles which they can in turn use as weapons is a very stupid idea.

It’s a friggin’ jail.

HenryBG said :

the only way to get a needle is to have a needle, thus encouraging smuggling.

Sounds like the current model.

Replacing smuggled needles with needles that the authorities have selected, say selected for not being very good as a weapon, is bad how?

Being able to test the returned needles for diseases is bad how?

This is one of those issues where I am truly ambivalent.

On the one hand, it makes complete sense to practise harm minimisation and ensure that blood-borne diseases don’t spread in prison. The simple fact is drugs exist in prisons and always will. A needle exchange program makes economic sense, and is the moral thing to do as it will help minimise disease within our community.

However, many drug addicts who are in jail are there as a result of their drug addictions and the crimes they commit to feed them. Surely jail provides one of the best opportunities to break this habit and surely every effort should be made to get these people off drugs so that, hopefully, they can turn be rehabilitated (and isn’t that one of the main purposes of jail). Furthermore, prisoners on drugs, particularly drugs such as Ice, that require needles pose a serious safety risk to guards and other prisoners. Surely we shouldn’t be facilitating this?

It would appear that a program such as this http://www.theage.com.au/national/hepatitis-c-treatment-breakthrough-20110314-1buhx.html would be far more effective and inline with health concerns than any needle exchange.

If people have Hep C why proliferate their drug use. Treat the Hep C.

Let’s put the health issues to one side for a minute and consider the following couple of points:
Drugs are illegal.
Drug possession is illegal.
Possessing drug paraphernalia in some jurisdictions is illegal, (don’t know about the ACT).

Can someone please explain why the government should be complicit in people committing crimes.
Surely, if someone has drugs inside the Mac and they are discovered, they will be confiscated?
Surely, routine searches are carried out and any contraband is confiscated?

Will the proposed free needles be given to all and sundry without any follow up action to relieve them of their drugs or is a blind eye turned to these activities?

Please someone, put the hep c/aids issue to one side and explain the LOGIC of helping people do drugs INSIDE a JAIL.
(Apologies for the Gillespiesque CAPITALIZATION)

gazket said :

johnboy said :

No.

Once more slowly for the thickie. Trade blunt dirty needles for clean new ones on a one for one basis.

No added harm. Just reduced risks.

If put that way the exchange won’t work and people will still get hep C . say there are 5 needles and 10 junkies still leaves 5 needles shared between 10 junkies no matter how many times they are swapped over.

Do you understand the difference between a ‘clean’ needle and an ‘infected’ one?

You can’t stop the stupid!

Additionally, the “exchange” model you are describing clearly represents an incentive to smuggle needles into gaol, and as I’m not going to be the only person to realise this, it’s perfectly obvious that the one-for-one approach will not be adhered to by those administering it: the only way to get a needle is to have a needle, thus encouraging smuggling.

Additionally, how do you enforce any requirement that a prisoner give up its needle upon release? You can’t.

Eventually the reality will be that any prisoner who wants one will be issued one. One or more.
Good luck to anybody whose job is to guard a prison full of smacked-out crims armed with blood-filled syringes.

Can somebody remind me how many new infections of Hep/AIDS occurred in the last 12 months due to sharing of needles inside?

johnboy said :

No.

Once more slowly for the thickie. Trade blunt dirty needles for clean new ones on a one for one basis.

No added harm. Just reduced risks.

If put that way the exchange won’t work and people will still get hep C . say there are 5 needles and 10 junkies still leaves 5 needles shared between 10 junkies no matter how many times they are swapped over.

johnboy said :

No.

Once more slowly for the thickie. Trade blunt dirty needles for clean new ones on a one for one basis.

No added harm. Just reduced risks.

If they are currently making no effort to prevent prisoners having needles, or drugs, what makes you think anybody will seriously enforce a one-for-one exchange?

HenryBG said :

herp derp just stop all the drugs it’s really easy herp derp

HardBallGets said :

Let’s not forget that needles are there already and that the prison has been unable to keep them out. .

Good of you to state the problem so succinctly.

And the leftie-nonsense solution? Hand out more!!!

Brilliant. Just brilliant.

No.

Once more slowly for the thickie. Trade blunt dirty needles for clean new ones on a one for one basis.

No added harm. Just reduced risks.

HardBallGets1:50 pm 23 Aug 12

gazket said :

they are banning cigarettes in jails but handing out needles to inject drugs is fine.

Not quite.

“They are banning cigarettes in jails and will soon be handing out sterile needles strictly in exchange for infected needles that are already in circulation in the AMC.”

There. Fixed it for you.

Let’s not forget that needles are there already and that the prison has been unable to keep them out. If there were no needles in the prison already, no credible advocates would be supporting the introduction of a needle exchange. The reality however is that drugs and needles are easily available and that situation is perfect for spreading infectious diseases within the prison population and then back out to the broader community.

milkman said :

I’m surpised no-one has mentioned tennis balls yet.

Yikes! They must be uncomfortable to shove up your a@#e! hahahaha!
If you’re talking about things thrown into the yard, then I understand that it is searched before they let prisoners out there? Correct me if i’m wrong!
But, as many people have said, i’m sure there are still lots of ways stuff can get in there…

Herp derp just keep drugs out of prison it’s easy herp derp

I’m surpised no-one has mentioned tennis balls yet.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd6:49 am 22 Aug 12

Mike Crowther said :

Clown Killer, it is not “an inescapable fact that prison guards are the source of the drugs.”

What do you have to back up that little piece of slander?

1. Visitors get caught attempting to traffic drugs in on a regular basis. I read about the slap on the wrists they get from our local benches. 2. I have not read of a single ACT screw being caught. Which shouldn’t be difficult to do because the ‘never dob your mates in’ culture does not apply to dirty officers. They put everyone at risk and are universally despised. 3. Officers aren’t the only ones working inside. Teachers, nurses, welfare workers…. now that I come to think of it the last bent staff member I dealt with was a nurse at John Moroney gaol in NSW. We caught her in the act of hitting her B/F up with smack. So if you’ve any evidence of bent officers, do us all a favor and take it to the police, if you don’t however, then STFU this is a serious issue.

Pull the other one. It’s the only way drugs easily get in. I guarantee if they brought in searches of prison officers every time they enter the gaol, the drug supply would dry up.

Mike Crowther10:17 pm 21 Aug 12

Clown Killer, it is not “an inescapable fact that prison guards are the source of the drugs.” What do you have to back up that little piece of slander? 1. Visitors get caught attempting to traffic drugs in on a regular basis. I read about the slap on the wrists they get from our local benches. 2. I have not read of a single ACT screw being caught. Which shouldn’t be difficult to do because the ‘never dob your mates in’ culture does not apply to dirty officers. They put everyone at risk and are universally despised. 3. Officers aren’t the only ones working inside. Teachers, nurses, welfare workers…. now that I come to think of it the last bent staff member I dealt with was a nurse at John Moroney gaol in NSW. We caught her in the act of hitting her B/F up with smack. So if you’ve any evidence of bent officers, do us all a favor and take it to the police, if you don’t however, then STFU this is a serious issue.

concernedpartner said :

I would be interested to see how the chief minister decides to spin this one. I have it on good authority that one of the health staff working at the AMC received a needle stick today.

That’s unfortunate but nothing new in a clinical setting. In this case, it’s a clinical setting in a prison operating without a NX. Trying to somehow incorporate this event into an argument against a NX is the real spin.

Gallagher, Levy and other needle advocates talk about a lower risk of needle stick infections because they are supplying clean needled to those injecting. What they seem to conveniently overlook is that the needles are only sterile on their way from the health centre to the block where the prisoner injects. Every single time they take a needle back to the health centre to exchange it, it is dirty. This means that 50% of the time a prisoner is carrying a needle it is more than likely to be dirty and capable of infecting staff with Hepatitis C (for which there is no vaccination), HIV or other viruses.

As opposed to the 100% of needles that are pre-used and in the AMC right now.

I think it is about time these people realise that the prison is not their petri dish to conduct their “let’s see if it works” experiments. Real people with real families who work for their money, obey the law and work day to day looking after these prisoners don’t deserve to be a part of this experiment.

The published evidence from 12 countries that have successfully introduced prison based NX suggests that it’s not an experiment. What it is, in fact, is evidence based policy.

concernedpartner8:38 pm 21 Aug 12

I would be interested to see how the chief minister decides to spin this one. I have it on good authority that one of the health staff working at the AMC received a needle stick today.

Working in a public hospital and receiving a needle stick injury would be a terrifying experience where even though Hepatitis C for example would be present in less than one percent of the people you are dealing with. In the Alexander Maconochie Centre a majority of the prisoners are Hep C positive.

Gallagher, Levy and other needle advocates talk about a lower risk of needle stick infections because they are supplying clean needled to those injecting. What they seem to conveniently overlook is that the needles are only sterile on their way from the health centre to the block where the prisoner injects. Every single time they take a needle back to the health centre to exchange it, it is dirty. This means that 50% of the time a prisoner is carrying a needle it is more than likely to be dirty and capable of infecting staff with Hepatitis C (for which there is no vaccination), HIV or other viruses.

I think it is about time these people realise that the prison is not their petri dish to conduct their “let’s see if it works” experiments. Real people with real families who work for their money, obey the law and work day to day looking after these prisoners don’t deserve to be a part of this experiment.

Clown Killer12:13 am 21 Aug 12

The not unsubstantial elephant in the room is … The fact that prisoners have reasonably free access to drugs. So let’s assume that the guards are doing their job and properly searching visitors. That would mean that the drugs are getting in how …

It’s an inescapable fact that prison guards are the source of the drugs. It’s a bit rich then for em to be complaining about needles … Oh wait! Maybe they’re supplying those as well …

It shouldn’t take a rocket scientist to simply stop injectable drugs finding their way into the possession of prisoners…. though not having visited the AMC, maybe my idea of what constitutes prison and a prisoner is somewhat different to the warm and fuzzy politically correct versions that exist in the ACT today?

However, if one accepts that the presence of morons injecting drugs in gaol is a given, then harm minimisation would best be served by setting up a needle exchange program.

By the same logic, however, should we also offer to set up a kiddie-porn exchange for them as well? Or to facilitate the safer pursuit of whatever other random illegal activity they decide to take up, because “we can’t stop them doing it” ?

How hard can it be to prevent visitors from carrying drugs and syringes into a prison? Seriously…

dazzab said :

Deref said :

Does anyone know whether they use drug sniffer dogs at the AMC?

I assume so as they use them on visitors. Often times visitors are required to stand in a line while the sniffer dogs do their thing before being allowed to visit. I’ve also been approached in the car park when visiting to have the dogs do a walk around as well.

Thanks.

I wonder if they’re used on staff?

Mrs_Potato_Head5:21 am 17 Aug 12

Proboscus said :

Don’t forget that there has been a needle exchange program in Canberra for many years and junkies are still getting hepatitis. Why? Because junkies are too lazy or stupid to organise themselves to get a clean syringe, or clean their “dirty” needle with bleach before they shoot up.

The prisoners already have access to facilities for cleaning their dirty needles inside the jail and are supposedly still catching hepatitis. How come? Is it because of laziness or stupidity as you put it? Or is it the result of false information provided by ACT Health, who have always wanted needles in the jail?

When the news broke last year about the first prisoner who caught hepatitis in the jail, it was all over the media with ACT Health saying that “this wouldn’t happen if clean needles were supplied to prisoners”. And ACT Health received a lot of support. Within days that result was proved to be a “false” positive – the prisoner hadn’t contracted hepatitis at all. But ACT Health fell silent. Instead of announcing to the public that they had messed up, they remained silent so that NSP support could grow.

ACT Health have recently been caught out “doctoring” data at TCH. If the prisoners already have access to needle cleaning facilities in the jail and ACT Health have been caught out lying about the numbers contracting hepatitis in the jail, then why is an NSP being considered?

Mental Health Worker3:45 am 17 Aug 12

Mrs_Potato_Head said :

My husband says that they have been gagged by management and threatened with the PS Code of Conduct if they speak up. The CPSU are not fighting hard enough for them and not representing their views accurately. Because of this a lot of experienced staff have already left or applying for other jobs.

There’s nothing unusual about being “gagged by management” and being required to abide by the conditions of your employment, including a Code of Conduct and the Public Sector Management Act. In fact, any employer will do this – if a barista spoke to the media about their employer using out of date milk in their cafe, say, they’d certainly be fired. Unless they were protected under Whistleblower legislation.

Having said that, there’d nothing to stop Katie Gallagher directing her bureaucrats to allow people who work in the prison (for whatever government department, but mainly Health and Corrective Services), to speak to the media. Some, such as doctors, already seem to be given this privilege.

This would certainly liven up the debate, and “inject” a bit more informed comment. You can see from reading posts on the Riot Act or Canberra Times that a lot of people with strong opinions often don’t know simple facts. However, employees would need to be very careful not to accidentally release security-sensitive information.

MHW

they are banning cigarettes in jails but handing out needles to inject drugs is fine.
Next step will be making the drugs for the prisoners because we don’t want people injecting feces from drugs smuggled into jails

A few questions.

1. If a prisoner overdoses, using an ACT Government-supplied needle, will their family have the right to sue the ACT Government? My guess is ‘yes’.
A: Yes they have the right to sue. Will they be successful? No. Why? There is no negligence, in fact the opposite. The policy helps the public good by preventing blood born disease being shared.

2. If a prison guard is stabbed or assaulted using an ACT Government-supplied need, will the guard have the right to sue the ACT Government? Again, almost certainly ‘yes’.
A: Yes they could try but for reasons above unlikely to be successful.
The screw needs to answer the question.
Would he rather be stabbed with a contaminated needle?

3. How does supplying prisoners with clean needles help with their drug rehabilitation? 85% or so are in gaol, indirectly because of drug issues. I made up the 85% number because I can’t find the actual percentage, but I remember the number being very high. If we’re not helping them with the root cause of their problem (being drugs), then they’ll do their time, leave gaol, and rob another person on the street a day later.
A: Because it helps with the greater problem – the prisoner getting Hepatitis/HIV etc. and then spreading it to your niece/nephew etc. thus costing the government tens of thousands of dollars for treatment. If they have a disease as well as an addiction the problem is compounded.

Re your idea to charge the prisoner for crime someone else committed, I guess you know the answer.? No it won’t work, for obvious reasons.

Deref said :

Does anyone know whether they use drug sniffer dogs at the AMC?

I assume so as they use them on visitors. Often times visitors are required to stand in a line while the sniffer dogs do their thing before being allowed to visit. I’ve also been approached in the car park when visiting to have the dogs do a walk around as well.

Don’t forget that there has been a needle exchange program in Canberra for many years and junkies are still getting hepatitis. Why? Because junkies are too lazy or stupid to organise themselves to get a clean syringe, or clean their “dirty” needle with bleach before they shoot up.

bundah said :

Illegal drugs and paraphernalia are smuggled into prisons through a multitude of means so in order to reduce the availability one would have to introduce draconian policies to have an impact.

Sounds good to me.

Would they like Blind Freddy or Captain Obvious to help them develop said policies?

You *do* realise that Canberra’a “Human Rights-Compliant” Gaol is at least twice as expensive per capita to run as the next most expensive prison in Australia as a direct result of *lax* correctional policies?

cmdwedge said :

A few questions.

1. If a prisoner overdoses, using an ACT Government-supplied needle, will their family have the right to sue the ACT Government? My guess is ‘yes’.

2. If a prison guard is stabbed or assaulted using an ACT Government-supplied need, will the guard have the right to sue the ACT Government? Again, almost certainly ‘yes’.

3. How does supplying prisoners with clean needles help with their drug rehabilitation? 85% or so are in gaol, indirectly because of drug issues. I made up the 85% number because I can’t find the actual percentage, but I remember the number being very high. If we’re not helping them with the root cause of their problem (being drugs), then they’ll do their time, leave gaol, and rob another person on the street a day later.

Why not address the real issue – figuring out how the drugs are getting into the prison, and then addressing that problem instead? Really ramp up the punishment for visitors who bring drugs into the gaol – if someone is caught bringing drugs into gaol for a prisoner, then the visitor is punished through the legal system (even if it’s a slap on the wrist and a fine), but it automatically adds 10% to the prison sentence of the prisoner for whom the drugs were intended. You could lock this down by having prisoners decide on a pre-named visitor list that they choose (my mum, my wife, my kids and my brother, for instance) or by having ‘unannounced’ visitors not on the list having to produce ID, name the person that they wish to visit, the prisoner then accepts or declines the visitor. After acceptance, the visitor is searched for drugs, and if they are carrying drugs, the prisoner is punished with a further 10% to their sentence. Will make them firstly think twice about who they want to allow to see them, and will also have the prisoners making it VERY clear to their visitor pools that they are NOT to try and smuggle drugs in for them!

I’m sure that there will be some critique of the idea but I’m genuinely interested to hear it.

In the words of Blackadder “bugger me with a fishfork” but that makes sense…

Mrs_Potato_Head6:49 pm 16 Aug 12

Proboscus said :

XO_VSOP said :

Let’s hear from the screws, I am sure they will make sense of it all for us, he’ll they should run for office the screw party.

Unfortunately the guards are ACT public servants and can’t voice their concerns about this debacle. Unlike the unsilent minority who want this BS implemented.

My husband says that they have been gagged by management and threatened with the PS Code of Conduct if they speak up. The CPSU are not fighting hard enough for them and not representing their views accurately. Because of this a lot of experienced staff have already left or applying for other jobs.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd6:07 pm 16 Aug 12

SnapperJack said :

I hope this “needle exchange service” will work a lot better than the ones I encountered in the 1980s and ’90s. I was a competitive bodybuilder at the time and used anabolic steroids. The first time I used the needle exchange I packed all the used syringes into a small box and took it there expecting the staff to fill out forms, accept the used syringes and issue the same number of new needles in return. To my amazement I was told “Don’t worry about returning anything, just help yourself to the new ones” and it was a total free-for-all.

Explains a lot.

I hope this “needle exchange service” will work a lot better than the ones I encountered in the 1980s and ’90s. I was a competitive bodybuilder at the time and used anabolic steroids. The first time I used the needle exchange I packed all the used syringes into a small box and took it there expecting the staff to fill out forms, accept the used syringes and issue the same number of new needles in return. To my amazement I was told “Don’t worry about returning anything, just help yourself to the new ones” and it was a total free-for-all.

cmdwedge said :

A few questions.

1. If a prisoner overdoses, using an ACT Government-supplied needle, will their family have the right to sue the ACT Government? My guess is ‘yes’.

2. If a prison guard is stabbed or assaulted using an ACT Government-supplied need, will the guard have the right to sue the ACT Government? Again, almost certainly ‘yes’.

3. How does supplying prisoners with clean needles help with their drug rehabilitation? 85% or so are in gaol, indirectly because of drug issues. I made up the 85% number because I can’t find the actual percentage, but I remember the number being very high. If we’re not helping them with the root cause of their problem (being drugs), then they’ll do their time, leave gaol, and rob another person on the street a day later.

Why not address the real issue – figuring out how the drugs are getting into the prison, and then addressing that problem instead? Really ramp up the punishment for visitors who bring drugs into the gaol – if someone is caught bringing drugs into gaol for a prisoner, then the visitor is punished through the legal system (even if it’s a slap on the wrist and a fine), but it automatically adds 10% to the prison sentence of the prisoner for whom the drugs were intended. You could lock this down by having prisoners decide on a pre-named visitor list that they choose (my mum, my wife, my kids and my brother, for instance) or by having ‘unannounced’ visitors not on the list having to produce ID, name the person that they wish to visit, the prisoner then accepts or declines the visitor. After acceptance, the visitor is searched for drugs, and if they are carrying drugs, the prisoner is punished with a further 10% to their sentence. Will make them firstly think twice about who they want to allow to see them, and will also have the prisoners making it VERY clear to their visitor pools that they are NOT to try and smuggle drugs in for them!

I’m sure that there will be some critique of the idea but I’m genuinely interested to hear it.

Illegal drugs and paraphernalia are smuggled into prisons through a multitude of means so in order to reduce the availability one would have to introduce draconian policies to have an impact.Given the costs would be astronomical and would impinge on ‘human rights’ it’s much too difficult for guvments to embark upon so they look for quick fixes.Your idea would have very little impact on the status quo and here’s an article that highlights the sense of hoeplessness many feel.
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/within-these-walls-20120720-22fb0.html

A few questions.

1. If a prisoner overdoses, using an ACT Government-supplied needle, will their family have the right to sue the ACT Government? My guess is ‘yes’.

2. If a prison guard is stabbed or assaulted using an ACT Government-supplied need, will the guard have the right to sue the ACT Government? Again, almost certainly ‘yes’.

3. How does supplying prisoners with clean needles help with their drug rehabilitation? 85% or so are in gaol, indirectly because of drug issues. I made up the 85% number because I can’t find the actual percentage, but I remember the number being very high. If we’re not helping them with the root cause of their problem (being drugs), then they’ll do their time, leave gaol, and rob another person on the street a day later.

Why not address the real issue – figuring out how the drugs are getting into the prison, and then addressing that problem instead? Really ramp up the punishment for visitors who bring drugs into the gaol – if someone is caught bringing drugs into gaol for a prisoner, then the visitor is punished through the legal system (even if it’s a slap on the wrist and a fine), but it automatically adds 10% to the prison sentence of the prisoner for whom the drugs were intended. You could lock this down by having prisoners decide on a pre-named visitor list that they choose (my mum, my wife, my kids and my brother, for instance) or by having ‘unannounced’ visitors not on the list having to produce ID, name the person that they wish to visit, the prisoner then accepts or declines the visitor. After acceptance, the visitor is searched for drugs, and if they are carrying drugs, the prisoner is punished with a further 10% to their sentence. Will make them firstly think twice about who they want to allow to see them, and will also have the prisoners making it VERY clear to their visitor pools that they are NOT to try and smuggle drugs in for them!

I’m sure that there will be some critique of the idea but I’m genuinely interested to hear it.

johnboy said :

I’m sure Zed will be thrilled by your creepy endorsement and it will help him swing many other votes.

I’m not sure about what was so creepy in Mr. Gillespie’s comment? Whether you agree or disagree with his position, the comment was hardly what I’d call ‘creepy’.

You need to keep up to date with who’s who in the zoo.

dazzab said :

There’s no need to supply needles in prisons any more than there is a need to provide them with whatever other vices they may desire. It’s illegal to take these drugs in prison and anyone who assists in that activity is complicit which makes them guilty as well.

Prisoners have access to health services in the prison to deal with their drug dependencies. If they don’t want to use those services then that’s their choice.

It appears to me the only people in favour of this are those trying to score political points, or those who believe they have some moral high ground. Shame on you! Have any of you ever even set foot in a prison? Have you ever spoken with a prisoner or someone who works in a prison? I doubt it.

Last I heard (albeit a very small sample I admit), the prisoners and the guards were not in favour of this. So exactly why is this so important to those who don’t work/reside there?

The justification is that it’s a health and human rights issue so it’s all about harm minimisation in their eyes.What they ought to be doing is focusing resources to significantly reduce drugs and needles getting in and as you mentioned drug rehab not a needle exchange.

Does anyone know whether they use drug sniffer dogs at the AMC?

XO_VSOP said :

Let’s hear from the screws, I am sure they will make sense of it all for us, he’ll they should run for office the screw party.

Unfortunately the guards are ACT public servants and can’t voice their concerns about this debacle. Unlike the unsilent minority who want this BS implemented.

Mr Gillespie10:48 am 16 Aug 12

I couldn’t agree with you more, HenryBG (#26)

The Labor/Green Alliance’s attitude to justice, coupled with the attitude that all criminals are victims of the system and deserve a helping hand instead of the punishment due to them by the courts, is another reason why I don’t believe in their left-wing crap philosophy, and I refuse to support them, they have been rubbing the electorate up the wrong way for too long now, look what happened in NSW and Queensland. I hope the voters of the ACT do the same here on October 20.

There’s no need to supply needles in prisons any more than there is a need to provide them with whatever other vices they may desire. It’s illegal to take these drugs in prison and anyone who assists in that activity is complicit which makes them guilty as well.

Prisoners have access to health services in the prison to deal with their drug dependencies. If they don’t want to use those services then that’s their choice.

It appears to me the only people in favour of this are those trying to score political points, or those who believe they have some moral high ground. Shame on you! Have any of you ever even set foot in a prison? Have you ever spoken with a prisoner or someone who works in a prison? I doubt it.

Last I heard (albeit a very small sample I admit), the prisoners and the guards were not in favour of this. So exactly why is this so important to those who don’t work/reside there?

HenryBG said :

bundah said :

Given that it’s quite obvious that illegal drugs and needles already exist in prisons and no one is serious about addressing this unacceptable situation primarily because corruption would cost gazillions to eradicate and guvments don’t want to spend the money then what the hell,as much as i detest the notion, make it all freely available!

It’s not corruption that gets most drugs into prison, it’s mis-placed concerns about criminals’ “Human Rights” that prevents processes being put in place that would greatly minimise drug use Inside.

I think it IS possible to completely remove drugs from prison, but as a society we aren’t prepared to put in place the measures required.

Let’s hear from the screws, I am sure they will make sense of it all for us, he’ll they should run for office the screw party.

HenryBG said :

bundah said :

Given that it’s quite obvious that illegal drugs and needles already exist in prisons and no one is serious about addressing this unacceptable situation primarily because corruption would cost gazillions to eradicate and guvments don’t want to spend the money then what the hell,as much as i detest the notion, make it all freely available!

It’s not corruption that gets most drugs into prison, it’s mis-placed concerns about criminals’ “Human Rights” that prevents processes being put in place that would greatly minimise drug use Inside.

I find it difficult to articulate how frustrated i am by the status quo.There have been so many misguided pieces of legislation implemented by bloody do-gooders who undoubtedly mean well but have not clearly understood the long term negative consequences that their actions will have on society!

bundah said :

Given that it’s quite obvious that illegal drugs and needles already exist in prisons and no one is serious about addressing this unacceptable situation primarily because corruption would cost gazillions to eradicate and guvments don’t want to spend the money then what the hell,as much as i detest the notion, make it all freely available!

It’s not corruption that gets most drugs into prison, it’s mis-placed concerns about criminals’ “Human Rights” that prevents processes being put in place that would greatly minimise drug use Inside.

I don’t see how adding needles into the prison system could possibly be a good thing. The reality is that needles will go missing, prisoners will beg for new ones, prisoners will find ways to rort the system. Many of the inmates don’t live by the same rules as the rest of us, they will break and abuse any system the come into contact with.

Mike Crowther8:15 am 16 Aug 12

Good idea bigfeet. and when the Prisoner says “F*#k off! I don’t do drugs and I refuse to do no tests.”, …. what then? Cant use force (this is Canberra after all!), cant prove he has drugs in his system, if the offence of ‘Refuse to take a test’ is ever instituted (as if!), he’d claim the nasty screws waited till he’d just has a piss then tried to test him. What judge in this territory wouldn’t accept that? You cant stop drug use. You can however reduce the risk of people using syringes as weapons. (When I say, I don’t mean ‘you’ personally or members of the Green-Lab alliance)

How about it is done this way?

Free needles are made available to prisoners however it is also emphasized that drug use is illegal and there will be consequences.

Implement proper random drug testing with each prisoner being tested at least once per week. Any drugs in your system then your sentence is automatically increased by one quarter.

That way the health and safety issues of sharing needles is addressed and it is the prisoners own choice to continue to use drugs, and live with the consequences of those choices.

Mrs_Potato_Head5:09 am 16 Aug 12

Mike Crowther said :

Beau Locks wrote… “To keep referring to one prison officer that contracted HIV years ago as a reason not to introduce an NSP at AMC is a nonsense. It does nothing to bolster their case, considering that the bloke would have been less likely to contract a blood borne nasty if there were clean fits in the joint.”

Do you think it was some kind of fkng accident? Geoff Pearce (yes, prison officers have names) was intentionally stabbed by Graham Fowler with a syringe of Fowler’s own HIV infected blood. Do you think if Fowler had had a nice clean human rights approved syringe that he may not have done it??? What planet are you living on? Fowler was angry. He had HIV, time was running out and in his mind, the screws were keeping him inside. Solution: Punish one of them. He wasn’t worried that he’d lose the syringe, or cop a bigger sentence, he was motivated by hate and someone (most probably a well intentioned health worker) gave him the means to do it. As a result a perfectly nice young bloke, which Geoff was, is today mouldering underground instead of enjoying the kids he never got to have.

A cleanliness of syringes is not the issue. They are a weapon, and, if like many of our business owners but none of our M.L.A.’s you’ve ever been confronted with with a blood filled one, an effective one.

But go ahead, give someone who uses a blood filled syringe to rob on the outside the same equipment inside. Its not like will have to deal with them. And please drop this ‘exchange’ bullshit. ‘One of the screws took it Miss’ ‘I put it down and it went missing’ will become the catch cry. And you can’t have a no exchange/no fit policy… they might go and and use a dirty one!! The AMC will be awash with ‘lost’ syringes, set up as booby traps (I personally coped one of those blue-tacked under a sliding bolt) or used in tattoo guns. Let’s see the Hep C rate go down when that happens.

Well said.

I’ve been hearing stories since the place opened how bad it is. Hargreaves moved prisoners into it for political reasons well before it was ready and it has been plagued by problems both administratively and logistically. The place lacks leadership, morale is down and the lunatics are running the asylum. The place ran well for a short time when Buchanan was in charge but that was short lived.

People on this site are saying “just keep the drugs out”. That’s hard to do when management have taken away things like strip searches, don’t punish prisoners for drug related offences within the jail and refuse to hire more dog handlers. Their powers to search visitors and prisoners have been severely restricted by human rights and a new training regime for staff that is aimed at allowing more drugs to get in. It was a dedicated and calculated decision by management to get the NSP into the jail.

Staff have no support anymore – CEO Bernadette Mitcherson abandoned them shortly after she commenced and now the CPSU has abandoned them too by agreeing to a decision made by the ACT Government without consulting it’s members.

How do I know this? I’m married to an officer who comes home after every shift stressed and sometimes in tears. He is taking medication for depression and is undergoing counseling. He is watching his mates gets assaulted by prisoners and seeing the offenders go unpunished. Prison officers are people too. They have rights – including human rights.

So before your heart bleeds for the people who broke the law and are now residing inside the AMC – please think about the law abiding families who are now worried sick about the well being and safety of their loved ones who work there.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd9:49 pm 15 Aug 12

Was there not a report that said there have only been two or three new infections since the prison has been open? Every other infected swine previously had it???

Also, as I understand it, sniffer dogs go over visitors at amc so let’s think, how else ate drugs getting in?

Mike Crowther9:24 pm 15 Aug 12

Beau Locks wrote… “To keep referring to one prison officer that contracted HIV years ago as a reason not to introduce an NSP at AMC is a nonsense. It does nothing to bolster their case, considering that the bloke would have been less likely to contract a blood borne nasty if there were clean fits in the joint.”

Do you think it was some kind of fkng accident? Geoff Pearce (yes, prison officers have names) was intentionally stabbed by Graham Fowler with a syringe of Fowler’s own HIV infected blood. Do you think if Fowler had had a nice clean human rights approved syringe that he may not have done it??? What planet are you living on? Fowler was angry. He had HIV, time was running out and in his mind, the screws were keeping him inside. Solution: Punish one of them. He wasn’t worried that he’d lose the syringe, or cop a bigger sentence, he was motivated by hate and someone (most probably a well intentioned health worker) gave him the means to do it. As a result a perfectly nice young bloke, which Geoff was, is today mouldering underground instead of enjoying the kids he never got to have. A cleanliness of syringes is not the issue. They are a weapon, and, if like many of our business owners but none of our M.L.A.’s you’ve ever been confronted with with a blood filled one, an effective one. But go ahead, give someone who uses a blood filled syringe to rob on the outside the same equipment inside. Its not like will have to deal with them. And please drop this ‘exchange’ bullshit. ‘One of the screws took it Miss’ ‘I put it down and it went missing’ will become the catch cry. And you can’t have a no exchange/no fit policy… they might go and and use a dirty one!! The AMC will be awash with ‘lost’ syringes, set up as booby traps (I personally coped one of those blue-tacked under a sliding bolt) or used in tattoo guns. Let’s see the Hep C rate go down when that happens.

Intuitively it’s a crap idea, but I’m happy to see a trial that will collect some evidence on infection rates etc.

If it’s not a crap idea, and increases community wellbeing in the long term then that’s the way to go.

Regardless of whether it’s a good or bad idea, it still shits me that people in the slammer (many of them for drug related crimes) are apparently able to freely access illegal drugs. Somehow, that don’t seem right.

johnboy said :

I suspect after the first couple they might cotton on.

They’re not in there because they’re smart….

Beau Locks said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

Deref said :

The “needle exchange” program is just that – an exchange program. That means that you give an old one back and get a new one in return. So this won’t introduce any new needles into the prison, just replace existing ones. Is that right? If so, how does that put guards at any more risk than they are currently.

This is a good point, but how do prisoners get there ‘first’ needle, the one that they will exchange later? Can they rock up to the counter and say “hey, noob here, need a needle”, or “wanna start shooting up, can I get a needle please”.

Just a logistics question…?

It is a good question. I’m not an expert on this part of things, although I’ve talked at length on the subject to someone that is.

My understanding is that there are different ways around it. One is to have vending machines that will give each prisoner their first needle and thereafter only give a new needle if an old one has been deposited. Another is to involve health professionals in the jail. Another is to effectively introduce a safe injecting room (i.e. no kosher needles anywhere else in the jail). I’m not sure which is the best option, although I understand that the latter was the one proposed by Michael Moore in his report on AMC.

If you have a “safe injecting room” you could then simply follow a given convict into said room and relieve them of their ILLEGAL DRUGS and free needle and take them into a “safe solitary confinement environment room”.
Repeat above process until ILLEGAL DRUGS are no longer present inside the prison.
The end.

I suspect after the first couple they might cotton on.

CM Media Release now available.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

Deref said :

The “needle exchange” program is just that – an exchange program. That means that you give an old one back and get a new one in return. So this won’t introduce any new needles into the prison, just replace existing ones. Is that right? If so, how does that put guards at any more risk than they are currently.

This is a good point, but how do prisoners get there ‘first’ needle, the one that they will exchange later? Can they rock up to the counter and say “hey, noob here, need a needle”, or “wanna start shooting up, can I get a needle please”.

Just a logistics question…?

It is a good question. I’m not an expert on this part of things, although I’ve talked at length on the subject to someone that is. My understanding is that there are different ways around it. One is to have vending machines that will give each prisoner their first needle and thereafter only give a new needle if an old one has been deposited. Another is to involve health professionals in the jail. Another is to effectively introduce a safe injecting room (i.e. no kosher needles anywhere else in the jail). I’m not sure which is the best option, although I understand that the latter was the one proposed by Michael Moore in his report on AMC.

Given that it’s quite obvious that illegal drugs and needles already exist in prisons and no one is serious about addressing this unacceptable situation primarily because corruption would cost gazillions to eradicate and guvments don’t want to spend the money then what the hell,as much as i detest the notion, make it all freely available!

kind of concerns me that needles can be exchanged within a prison system. At the same time, if i was a guard, I’d rather be stabbed with a sterile syringe, than a dirty one.

Undecided on this

VYBerlinaV8_is_back3:23 pm 15 Aug 12

Deref said :

The “needle exchange” program is just that – an exchange program. That means that you give an old one back and get a new one in return. So this won’t introduce any new needles into the prison, just replace existing ones. Is that right? If so, how does that put guards at any more risk than they are currently.

This is a good point, but how do prisoners get there ‘first’ needle, the one that they will exchange later? Can they rock up to the counter and say “hey, noob here, need a needle”, or “wanna start shooting up, can I get a needle please”.

Just a logistics question…?

Proboscus: there are already drugs in the prison. There is absolutely nothing that anyone can do to prevent this. Thinking you can is pure fantasy. There are already fits in the prison. Having used ones replaced with clean ones means less spread of HIV/Hep C amongst a population of people that will have to be treated whether they’re inside or out. Even if you don’t think they deserve to be treated, it may surprise you that people who are or have been in jail are actually capable of spreading disease into the ‘normal’ population of people that don’t have anything whatsoever to do with the criminal justice system. Moving around populations of people is kind of what viruses do.

The reason that Australia was the envy of public health officials the world over in the 80s and 90s in terms of our HIV rates was precisely because there was a bi-partisan commitment to condoms and needle exchange in the 80s. That’s why it didn’t spread to the ‘normal’ population like it did elsewhere, thusly costing us all collectively a lot of money, and, more importantly, unnecessarily killing people.

You may recall that neither of these moves were popular at the time in many circles (mainly amongst people unwilling to look past their own preconceptions and at the facts, loud and clear as they were). Nonetheless, with the benefit of hindsight it’s pretty much universally agreed that this was a pretty sensible course of action. Indeed, it was really the last time that both the major parties worked so constructively on policy development together, but that’s another story.

In terms of police and prison guards having to deal with the decisions of dickheads that aren’t on the front line, you’re making an assumption that people making these decisions don’t have direct experience or aren’t being informed by direct experience. That’s what research is for. Clever stuff.

Finally, if your primary concern is for the screws, I should like to point out that the international evidence in this particular shows that prison officers are at reduced risk of harm, not greater.

johnboy said :

Given that at the probability that *some* of the guards are the ones currently commanding premium prices selling drugs and needles to the prisoners they’re a tough constitituency to rely on.

Ooooooh! So cynical!!

Personally, I just love reading the fluff in the ‘framework’!

Here’s a classic mouthful:
“The Framework sits within the broader context of the ACT Alcohol Tobacco and Other Drug Strategy
2010 – 2014 and within the HIV/AIDS, Hepatitis C, Sexually Transmissible Infection: A Strategic
Framework for the ACT 2007-2012. The Framework also operates in conjunction with the Drug
Policies and Services Framework for the Alexander Maconochie Centre 2012-2014 (Draft).
The Framework is underpinned by the human rights principles outlined in the ACT Human Rights Act
2004.”

Extra points for ‘enshrined’:
“In particular, The Strategic Framework for the Management of BBV in the AMC 2012-2014 is set in
the context of the harm minimisation that characterises Australia’s approach to drug use, which is
enshrined in the National Drug Strategy 2010-2015.”

And it’s great that there is something related to needle exchange programs (well, mgt of BBVs) in the ‘ACT Multicultural Strategy’, ‘Canberra Social Plan’ and ‘ACT Young People’s Plan 2009-2014’?! :

“Strategies, plans and legislation informing the policy context for the Framework
The Framework strives to balance consistency with the national strategies, whilst enabling a
coordinated and locally relevant response.
ACT Strategies
• ACT Human Rights Act 2004
• ACT Multicultural Strategy
• The Canberra Social Plan
• ACT Young People’s Plan 2009-2014”

If things are kept ‘high level’ enough, you can link them to anything! I love frameworks! 🙂

It’ll be interesting to see the overall public view of this. Looking at the CT website comments, ther’s a lot of naysayers…
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/needle-exchange-trial-to-go-ahead-at-canberra-jail-20120815-247l0.html

colourful sydney racing identity2:43 pm 15 Aug 12

Mr Gillespie said :

GET OUT OF MY WAY, I’M A TOOL

Proboscus said :

Beau Locks said :

About time. This is such a no brainer, and I wonder if CPSU have only been carrying on such a treat because they dug themselves into such a ‘no needle exchange’ hole that they would look (or at least feel) like total numpties if they changed their tune on the subject. To keep referring to one prison officer that contracted HIV years ago as a reason not to introduce an NSP at AMC is a nonsense. It does nothing to bolster their case, considering that the bloke would have been less likely to contract a blood borne nasty if there were clean fits in the joint.

Hats orf to the ACT Gubment for taking an evidence-based approach to the issue.

Are you f***ing retarded? The only people who want needles in the gaol either don’t work there or are drug addled prisoners. It’s easy to sit behind your desk and think that the only danger you’re in is from a paper cut.

Police and prison guards should not have to put up with decisions of d***heads who are not on the frontline.

So let me see if I understand…

The “needle exchange” program is just that – an exchange program. That means that you give an old one back and get a new one in return. So this won’t introduce any new needles into the prison, just replace existing ones. Is that right? If so, how does that put guards at any more risk than they are currently.

Proboscus said :

Beau Locks said :

About time. This is such a no brainer, and I wonder if CPSU have only been carrying on such a treat because they dug themselves into such a ‘no needle exchange’ hole that they would look (or at least feel) like total numpties if they changed their tune on the subject. To keep referring to one prison officer that contracted HIV years ago as a reason not to introduce an NSP at AMC is a nonsense. It does nothing to bolster their case, considering that the bloke would have been less likely to contract a blood borne nasty if there were clean fits in the joint.

Hats orf to the ACT Gubment for taking an evidence-based approach to the issue.

Are you f***ing retarded? The only people who want needles in the gaol either don’t work there or are drug addled prisoners. It’s easy to sit behind your desk and think that the only danger you’re in is from a paper cut.

Police and prison guards should not have to put up with decisions of d***heads who are not on the frontline.

I would like to hear from the guards on this issue. I would think they are against the idea, but who knows.

Given that at the probability that *some* of the guards are the ones currently commanding premium prices selling drugs and needles to the prisoners they’re a tough constitituency to rely on.

Mr Gillespie2:32 pm 15 Aug 12

There you go, another reason why I have made up my mind about who I am voting for at the ACT election.

See, it’s not just the shopping bags issue.

I’m sure Zed will be thrilled by your creepy endorsement and it will help him swing many other votes.

Beau Locks said :

About time. This is such a no brainer, and I wonder if CPSU have only been carrying on such a treat because they dug themselves into such a ‘no needle exchange’ hole that they would look (or at least feel) like total numpties if they changed their tune on the subject. To keep referring to one prison officer that contracted HIV years ago as a reason not to introduce an NSP at AMC is a nonsense. It does nothing to bolster their case, considering that the bloke would have been less likely to contract a blood borne nasty if there were clean fits in the joint.

Hats orf to the ACT Gubment for taking an evidence-based approach to the issue.

Are you f***ing retarded? The only people who want needles in the gaol either don’t work there or are drug addled prisoners. It’s easy to sit behind your desk and think that the only danger you’re in is from a paper cut.

Police and prison guards should not have to put up with decisions of d***heads who are not on the frontline.

About time. This is such a no brainer, and I wonder if CPSU have only been carrying on such a treat because they dug themselves into such a ‘no needle exchange’ hole that they would look (or at least feel) like total numpties if they changed their tune on the subject. To keep referring to one prison officer that contracted HIV years ago as a reason not to introduce an NSP at AMC is a nonsense. It does nothing to bolster their case, considering that the bloke would have been less likely to contract a blood borne nasty if there were clean fits in the joint.

Hats orf to the ACT Gubment for taking an evidence-based approach to the issue.

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