29 November 2005

Should we cancel the PM's XI for Van Nguyen

| johnboy
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The ABC’s The World Today has a transcript up in which the PM gets a grilling for not calling off the Prime Minister’s XI match as an act of mourning for the execution of Van Nguyen.

While I’m not keen on the execution, are these calls taking pointless gestures and conspicuous compassion to stupid levels?

UPDATED: Thumper sent in the following which I’ve decided to append here:

RSL up in arms about ‘minutes silence’ .

Regardless of what you think about the death penalty, this article in the CT should put a lot of the frivolous bleatings in perspective.

Nguyen Tuong Van is not a hero. He has not contributed a great deal to this country. he was attempting to contribute, through his financial gain, more suffering and misery upon people, family and friends.

remember folks, this Changi. yes, that changi, where so many Australians died at the hands of the Japanese during World War Two.

Totally and utterly inappropriate and all these wnakers asking for a minutes silence should pull their heads in and ask why we have the country we have.

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Although, I assure you, as somebody standing a little bit closer to the truth, Australia doesn’t have any military threat that isn’t catered for.

Also, a seabourne invasion (one military attacking a dug-in defence) is one of the hardest things to pull of in military terms. D-Day, although popularised as a huge success, nearly broke the back of the Allies, and could have very easily gone the other way.

I suppose one effective way of describing D-Day, in RA terms is that the story was written by the winner.

So, militarily speaking, having your defence force outside the country they are meant to be defending is military stupidity to the highest degree.

And if Indonesia or Malaysia decided they liked the look of Singaporean’s Asses good enough, I don’t necessarily agree that Australia would back them up to help defend Singapore.

To highlight that scenario, take a look at how many troops Australia could deploy via sea and air to Singapore Island in 36 hours.

By that time, Malaysia and Indonesia could have in the vicinity of half a million troops+ on Singapore soil.

All Johnny Howard could do to help is say ‘man overboard’, but I don’t think the Indons or Malays would stop either way.

Yep STW, Wedgetail comes into service next year and is so good boeing are hawking the R&D we paid for all over the globe.

money well spent…

Spot the wog8:31 pm 30 Nov 05

Very soon the RAAF will have a new Airborne early warning and control aircraft (aew&c), just like AWACS but a link for all forces to communicate, with each other and detect incoming aircraft and hostile weapons. It has a special system that enables the craft to turn without banking to one side too much and get a chance to miss something.

Deployed to the northern states the aircraft can go 500 nautical miles on one tank, Details: Defence today vol 4,no 2 july 2005

I have my own views on drugs & drug dealers (just legalise everything I say!). That said…my heart does not bleed for this guy. He did the crime, he got caught…bad luck buddy. We all take risks with the law sometimes…but for me, I might stand to risk a fine & a stern talking to..there’s no way in hell I’d risk my life. Sure, it’s sad that he’ll hang for this…but hey, like I said…bad luck buddy.

I’m a fan of things that work

There’s no upside in heavying singapore right now.

I like Singaporeans and compared to a lot of other places in the world I like Singpore too.

Just because I oppose the death penalty for drug crimes doesn’t make those with a different view bad people per se.

Which is what this debate has degraded to.

Careful JB, logic like that has me agreeing with you

Hanging remains one of the most humane methods of execution as near as I can tell.

The neck breaks and it’s all over.

I hear Singapore puts weights on the victim which ensures the outcome but can lead to the head coming clean off.

We could certainly make a start by making them pack up their 6,000 troops stationed in Australia, and telling them to go home. Why they need to be here in the first place, I don’t know.

Well the Singaporean E-2C Hawkeyes are the only AWACS defending our northern approaches. And we sold them all our defence comsats.

Plus they got us into the asian free trade zone talks and watch our backs against the malaysians and indos in ASEAN.

Pretty much the whole Singaporean military is based here as a safeguard of Singapore security given it’s a very small place.

On the other hand their investment in technology we’ve fallen behind in does us no harm under this arrangement.

Basically they’re a very close friend of the country, and this sort of senstationalism over an issue no-one cared about two months ago is dangerous.

Why is it that nobody gave a shit about this guy for the past three years he has been ni jail, knowing full well that he would be facing the death penalty if convicted? Nobody cares, this is a cheap stunt to get a few would be ‘high profile’ lawyers and a couple of outspoken half assed politicians in the headlines.

Please, why don’t we have a minutes silence for every poor sod that has become addicted to the crap he has been smuggling and died?

Ask yourself, how many people smuggle drugs and get caught the first time? Not too msny…

I wonder if those opposing this particular persons death would be different if it weren’t death by hanging? Like I wonder if people would be less outraged if say the penalty was death by lethal injection instead?

Spot the wog9:47 pm 29 Nov 05

The only silence will be the anticipation of the ball being thrown to the batsmam waiting at the crease.

Kill the plik… sorry prick and he’ll be flogotten in a month.

I’d like to know the policy of the current
erected… sorry elected government on this issue.
The executioner looks like a pretty happy guy, all he’ll have to do is say “tak” as it were and he pulls the rever.. sorry lever.

I think the calls for a minute’s silence and the bagging of Howard for going to the cricket are a wank. Nugyen is not some sort of hero – he committed a serious crime. Yes, its sad for his friends and family, but he took the gamble on carrying heroin through Singapore and lost.

Personally, I think anyone taking drugs to Singapore deserves to be executed for stupidity.


I don’t for a minute believe that we have all the facts. We never do. But as bonfire suggested (rather sanely for once) that there are other options (authorities etc).

I can’t put myself in the situation of how he would feel if in the same situation and I don’t support any form of capital punishment. But I have been overseas. I have had three passports in my life and with each came an accompanying booklet, which had a rather large section on carrying drugs overseas. It states quite clearly that even though Australia will provide consular support, if you get busted you have to face the courts of the country that you are in. It’s all pretty well much in simple black and white not some legalese jargon and whether this guy is a “poor dumb kid” or a “mule” or “under duress”, the fact is he did it.

I would be very interested if you could point me to this information where its held that he did it for other reasons other than to pay off his brothers debts.

Will it be live on teev? The hanging, not the cricket.

Given that 98% of statistics are made up, I’d say hoolabaloo to these statistics, although they look good on paper.

I reckon the real reason why executions are down 40% is because for starters they’ve stopped hanging ‘niggers’ from the nearest tree after a shonky court case, and secondly, those ‘niggers’ have begun making some serious moolah in recent years and can afford decent legal support.

I used the term in the historical sense, to reflect the uneducated docile black male demographic, which has rapidly changed, and is inappropriate to use on the current demographic.

To highlight my argument; OJ Simpson. Rich, Intelligent (I’m prepared argue this point), Black, and not in jail.

Absent Diane3:48 pm 29 Nov 05


Forgot to add this link

It’s a ‘Request’ file from some inmates who have faced execution in Texas. Watch it all the way – I was enlightened by the last meal request of one inmate on death row, who asked that his last meal go to a homeless person.

some news from the US:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The United States is scheduled this week to witness its 1,000th execution since the Supreme Court reinstated the death penalty in 1976, but even as it reaches this milestone opponents said capital punishment may be falling out of favor.

Some 997 people have been put to death since the Supreme Court ended a 10-year moratorium on capital punishment that ran from 1967-1977. With five people scheduled for execution in five different states this week, it seems almost certain that the landmark of 1,000 will be passed.

“This is a time for somber and sober reflection but the United States is slowly turning away from the death penalty,” said David Elliot of the National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty.

“Death sentences are down 50 percent since the late 1990s to around 150 a year. Executions are down 40 percent from the high of 98 in 1999,” he said.

The Supreme Court ruled earlier this year that crimes committed by juveniles could not be punished by death. That resulted in 71 people being taken off death row and followed another Supreme Court decision in 2002 declaring that it was unconstitutional to execute criminals who are mentally retarded.

A Gallup poll last month showed 64 percent of Americans favored the death penalty — the lowest level in 27 years, down from a high of 80 percent in 1994.


And here’s the link to the results.

the children overboard affair was also misreported by a leftist media, keen to point score with mis-information and to beat up on politicians they despise.

whatever teh reporting and hand wringing may be, look at teh stats. take a hard line, enforce compliance and your problem will decrease.

not too many illegals arriving by boat now is there.

hopefully the focus can now go on overstayers from uk, eu, us etc.

i think some peopel expend way too much energy and emotion on hating yes hating politicians because they dont do what they want them to do.

hence the neverending series of rentacrowd demonstrations, gradually diluting their currency.

guess what folks, we have a thing called democracy. if you dont like them vote them out.

if the drug smuggler had a gun pointed at him by criminal elements, he should have gone to the authorities.

AD, look for a Roy Morgan poll, I think in tomorrow’s papers.

At risk of offending those who cannot accept this poor chaps fate (and I don’t agree with the death penalty at all), would we have to cancel all public events each time someone goes to the gallows?

We could of course see a re-run of the 1970-71 rugby tour by South Africa whereby protesters attempted to interupt a few matches because of Australia’s ‘apparent’ approval of aparthied because the national rugby team continued to play SA…there are of course some natural connections between the natural miscarriage of justice and the lack of equity in a society due to aparthied and the point that some countries still practice putting people to death.

This probably won’t occur and Absent Diane is probably right, we’ve all gone soft..probably due to X-Box or PS2.

Absent Diane2:41 pm 29 Nov 05

Do you have means for analysis B-Monkey, like a model based on these two subjects….

Wonsworld, would your opinion be the same if the poor lad had a gun pointed to his brothers head by a triad who then said if you don’t smuggle these drugs, we’re going to shoot your twin brother ?

There’s a lot about this case that’s not being reported by Australian media, look overseas for some independent feeds.

That said, I won’t be watching the hanging, nor will I be watching the cricket. I’m protesting at the lot, cause it’s all a bunch of bollocks.

I think hang the Mule, bring on IR and stop watching today tonight….

the only reason this subject is on everyone’s lips is due to the media, it is a popular subject everyone can add there own two cents too.

I don’t believe that Stotsie would of made that tastie sound bite unless asked by the Media waiting for her….

He broke the laws of a country tuff shite you gotta die…

any who on a lighter note Listerning to JJJ’s hack last night they stated that a study conducted idicated that your choice in TV programs could idicate the way you vote, doing a brief study of my own of two subjects i found this completly true…

Absent Diane2:05 pm 29 Nov 05

Well.. whatever the outcome.. lets just hope the unshowered ones do nothing to disrupt the game…. as that is the most important thing…

as if he’s going to miss the game.
I hear on (very) good authority that the game already had to be rescheduled to suit his time line anyway, as “its my game”

Isn’t it amazing how with what is going to happen on Friday that everyone seems to be forgetting the workplace legislation that will soon dictate our working lives?

I swear that Howard must jump for joy at stunts like this. About to lose an election? Direct the country’s attention to some bullshit about children being pushed overboard. Have your Ministers outright lie to the country and still win. Get the country’s focus off what we REALLY should be thinking about.

This time he is going to bring in the most radical legislation since the GST (which was going to make everything cost less… right?) and most of the country is bleating about some dumb kid who tried to beat the Singapore drug laws and lost. He had fewer than 400 g of heroin. You have to remember it is not like he faced court and they decided that the death penalty should be imposed. In Singapore with that much smack, the death penalty is automatically imposed.

Would Australia have any affect whatsoever at dictating how Singapore should govern itself? Absolutely NONE. Should we stop doing what we are doing on the day this kid faces the hangman. No….

I am personally against capital punishment BUT regardless of this kid’s reasons and logic, you cannot forget that if he had got away way with it, how many O/D deaths would result, how many cases of HIV and Hep A-E be brought about as a result of his actions. I understand the reasons why he SAID he did it, but the fact remains that he DID carry drugs into and attempt to get them out of an Asian country. One that that carries the death penalty.

Perhaps the question should not be “Should the PM give up the cricket because of a drug smuggler” but “Should he cancel the game because he has his dick inside our IR legislation”. I might have a minute’s silence at that thought.

screamingmonkey12:00 pm 29 Nov 05

…more a “chop” than a drop – damn pudgy one finger

screamingmonkey11:58 am 29 Nov 05

Why do these inconsequential leftist hippie bleaters like spot-destroyer feel they just have to jump on any bandwagon cause to draw attention to themselves. Especially a cause as stoopid as this one – a minute’s silence for a convicted drug dealer/courier being hanged – pfft! And, yeah, the cricket’s going to be called off in sympathy – not!

Here’s an idea – why don’t these bleaters sneak over and take the long drop in disguise for him. Like that bloke in A Tale Of Two Cities – except in his case it was more a flop than a drop

Absent Diane11:44 am 29 Nov 05

No bonfire was making the point that he was lobbying for GST within his party and then when hewson suggested it he shut it down… which is pretty standard in politics… basically he algined the party to what the public wanted to hear…

LOL, that’s bonfire’s point Absent Diane….Keating didn’t have the balls to introduce the GST.

day to watch the cricket be impacted upon directly as a result of someone elses serious lack of judgement – sound a little like Gallipoli ?

To the people who want a minutes silence, go fuck off and find your own coloured rubber band for around your wrists to protest you unimaginative assholes.

The minute silence however, is not a military owned tradition, and is implemented at funerals to remember the deceased. As such, a minutes silence across the country, is.

It was instituted to remember the fallen from the Great War, and has since come to represent Australian losses during WW1, WW2 and subsequent conflicts. I certainly know I have a minutes silence for a buddy of mine I lost in East Timor, while on active duty.

To ask the nation to be quiet for a minute sounds more like a tactless stunt that 60minutes or TT would run, asshole gutter-press that they are.

Absent Diane10:54 am 29 Nov 05

Thats politics bonfire…. GST doesn’t bother me… probably would have been done better under keating but what good is hindsight

Absent Diane10:45 am 29 Nov 05

and would maybe shut those up saying the game should be abandoned..

keating was a nero as far as pm’s go. he shot hsi bolt as treasurere very early on, then dined on early accomplishments for a decade without contributing anything.

he is also a hypocrite. privately pro gst, lobbied his own party for it. hewson proposes it and its suddenly quite evil. goes to war against the gst. stays in office, but loses a chance at economic reform he believes in. hate guides his decision making not logic.

the more drug smugglers/dealers are executed the better. woudl you rather your kid od’s ?

Absent Diane10:36 am 29 Nov 05

I agree but a minutes silence is at the very least a compromise

Growling Ferret10:31 am 29 Nov 05

If a minutes silence is imposed, I’ll be the bloke yelling that they should hang the Bali 9 as well… Couriers are as bad as dealers, but more stupid as they don’t make the profits.

After seeing a friends death through heroin, I would be far happier for no heroin ever made it to these shores again.

I’m no fan of John Winston, but the uproar this week has been bloody ridiculous.

Absent Diane10:18 am 29 Nov 05

Yeah but when you juxtapose keating against howard keating stacks up pretty well

Absent Diane10:12 am 29 Nov 05

Wasn’t that under hawke???

Here we go, placing a positive spin on history again….Keating a “fantastic leader”.

His record on Asia was not impressive. Wasn’t it Keating who said, “the best thing about Asia was flying over it to go to Europe”. He was also part of a Governemnt who sacarficed East Timor not to mention his problem with Mahathir.

Absent Diane9:58 am 29 Nov 05

Since the mid-ninties it certainly appears that way.. since the dickhead majority of this country voted out a fantastic leader backed by a very good front bench…. and then continously vote in this little faghat howard to get repeatedly raped in a vile manner… so yes is your answer

Cancel the cricket: no bloody way! In fact, it should be that for every six hit at the game another drug runner/dealer in a jail somewhere in Australia should be hung. 😉

Absent Diane, so we as a nation have only just fallen into an apparent subtle trap of public ignorance and stupidity – unlikely.

As for the comments made by Senators Brown and Stott-Despoja indicating we should just cancel the PM’s XI as a mark of respect for a convicted drug smuggler, why should any law-abiding Australian choosing to take a day to watch the cricket be impacted upon directly as a result of someone elses serious lack of judgement…imbeciles such as these two Senators are just shamelessly lurching around for media attention!

Calling Prime Minister Mahathir ‘recalcitrant’ was not exactly a demonstration of understanding Asian culture….

Absent Diane9:35 am 29 Nov 05

And somehow I think if keating was still in power Australia would be in far happier place than it is now…. I get really embarrased at the australian public ignorance and stupidity sometimes

Absent Diane9:29 am 29 Nov 05

Yes but if keating was in power there would be a much greater chance of getting this kid off…. because of his appreciation for asian culture

If Australia was definetly against the death penalty, they should be working against it, and making it known that Australia is against it, on the international forum.

Couldn’t agree more. But as long as he’s set on playing deputy sheriff to the US, Howard is hardly likely to start rocking that particular boat.

I keep remembering those “Asian values” so highly praised by Mr Keating….

Absent Diane9:25 am 29 Nov 05

Execution for drugs… yeah not sure about that… it was stupid and people need to accept that there is the possibility for positive and negative consequences for every action including stupid actions.. and perhaps this is inline with darwinsim….
so stop the cricket… Nah, I think one minutes silence is enough…. like they do for everything else
About the only thing I am sure of is my wish that JW Howard was also on the chopping block…at the very least metaphorically..

Following on from Kimba and going slightly off on a tangent – i would like to see a tradition begun where the PM sends down the first over to the visiting side. Works the same way as the celebrity first pitch in baseball. I’d pay my money to see that again!!

PS – what do these floggers suggest he do instead of watch the cricket – go and get a front row seat at the gallows?

The Greens and bleeding hearts like Rudd and Baird are so out of touch with public opinion.

Personally, I don’t believe that Nguyen deserves to hang for this, especially considering Singapore’s hypocrisy in their dealings with drug-friendly Burma.

But que sera sera!

The PM should watch the cricket (not play, after what we saw in Pakistan), I hope he enjoys the day.

I think that if the idiot was stupid enough to bring drugs into a country where possession brings death it serves the fucking bastard right.

The Comrade has an awful lot of bandwagons to jump onto at the moment, maybe he’s just decided to avoid this one on the basis that once the guy’s dead, nobody’s going to care either way.

Wow, some of these offences could be implemented in todays world…

Until 1808 the law in Britain offered the death penalty for some 200 offenses, including:

Attempting suicide
Being in the company of gypsies for one month
“Strong evidence of malice” in children aged 7–14 years old
Shoplifting goods worth five shillings (£0.25) or less
Returning from Transportation
Piracy with violence


The only two I can find are Malaysia and Singapore…

I agree with terubo, all this last-minute pleading for his life is all a bit unprofessional, if indeed too little, too late.

If Australia was definetly against the death penalty, they should be working against it, and making it known that Australia is against it, on the international forum.

It does make me wonder how Singapore can be a member of the Commonwealth though. It’s ok to point out that China does the same kinds of things, but they aren’t a member of the Commonwealth…

We could certainly make a start by making them pack up their 6,000 troops stationed in Australia, and telling them to go home. Why they need to be here in the first place, I don’t know.

Ralph, I don’t often agree with you although on this one you are on the money.

I like the T-shirt idea too.


There was bound to be a crescendo of OTT commentary in the final days before execution. Unfortunately (or not), the boy’s gone, and it’s up to the Fed. Govt. to start campaigning against the death penalty on a regional/international basis – if it’s really serious about it.

I think I’ll go to the match wearing a T shirt proclaiming
“Yay one less scumbag in the gene pool”

All the hoo haa over this drug peddler is astounding.

He was carrying drugs in Singapore, they have the death penalty, its their law, he has to face the consequences of his actions. Only an idiot would carry drugs in Asia.

We don’t want these parasites bringing drugs into Australia.

All these bleeding hearts pleading to have him receive a lesser sentence just present Australia as a soft touch for drug barons.

Build a bridge people.

I wonder if it’s entirely possible to lead a virtuous life by taking a diametrically opposed view to john laws and his audience.

but i suspect this current media crap-storm is just an attempt to ruin one of the PM’s favourite days out of spite.

A mule is not a dealer.

Samuel Gordon-Stewart11:11 pm 28 Nov 05

By the way, John Laws ran something similar as his web poll today, sure the target audience of his site are a skewed bunch (myself included) but the result is interesting:

Should John Howard cancel the PM’s XI on Friday because of the Nguyen hanging?
Yes 7%
No 93%

Samuel Gordon-Stewart11:08 pm 28 Nov 05

IMHO The level of need for a hole in the head is roughly equivalent to the need to cancel the PM’s XI or the need for a minute silence for a drug dealer.

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