Watch out for cigarette re-education patrols

I’ll agree that smokers are an easy target these days. Then again, so are brightly clothed young people so I fail to see how giving them a spray is going to redress the karmic balance. Perhaps you could direct your diatribes somewhere more useful?

Beer is Good… RJ want to go for one??

bm – i will not engage in dialogue with my oppressors. you have made me aware of their tactics – why would i talk to them ?

if they approach me they will cop a spray. as would prosletysers, green left sales twats, junkies, pamphleteers and other fools which obstruct me as i go about my business.

my actions regarding recycling have nothing to do with this topic. however, yes i do seperate items which are being disposed of. because i live a fairly spartan life, both bins only get put out at best once a month, and even then they aren’t full.

anyway im off for a beer.

This is starting to hurt my brain – going to pub now to make it stop.

I figured I would listen to what they had to say, which was not the anti-smoking diatribe i was expecting, and then they gave me a butt bin on a key chain. personally i feel guilty ditching my butts, and i felt this even before i was approached by the Hitler youth.

question bonfire: do you feel the same way about having two bins one for recycling one for rubbish?
do you put the right rubbish in the right bin or you don’t even bother sorting it?? that is a similar concept for the butt bins, the aren’t saying you can’t smoke but could you take care of your butts.

Now we are getting somewhere. I’ll consider Bonfire’s last rant out of context and think about it under a targettable offender scenario.

Paper litter, even when put in a bin, has the potential to be blown out and down the street. Not exactly targettable by officials for prosecution is it ?

(I’m yet to see a cig. butt blown out of a bin but I’m prepared to be astounded)

Cig. butts however, by their nature are a controlled piece of rubbish that has been held in the hand of an offender, and subsequently discarded, via whatever means, from the hand of that offender. (generally speaking – I’m sure in 7 billion examples there will be different cases)

Very targettable.

I’m sure that once they’ve restricted to death everything they can, they’ll move onto harder goals. You’re simply an easy target, and a good building block for bigger things.

so Bonfire from your logic a leaf is just as bad for the environment as a Ciggy Butt?
now correct me if I’m wrong but after use a ciggy Butt or “Filter” if you will, will have a crap load of chemicals and toxins harmful to people and the environment well at least more so then a leaf fallen off a tree.

I think the major problem that you are having with this campaign is that you perceive that you are being told what to do, not asked.

have you spoken to the butt brigade in civic??

Are you prepared to tidy up after yourself and take responsibility for your actions?? If not stop smoking because you obviously are not mature enough..

but blame monkey you are ascribing a whole set of behaviours and values based on assumptions that these are associated with smokers.

you are buying the propaganda which eventually becomes accepted as a truth in society through constant repetition.

that doesnt make it true though.

did the hitler youth girls approach gum chewers ? icy pole lickers ? chipa chup chewers ?

No.

They were directed by their political officers to focus on smokers.

“Butts are not litter” is not a fact. It is your view.

1. So they are in fact ‘litter’, not ‘masses of litter more than anything else’ but litter nonetheless. Which has been my point all along. Have you really listened to a word I said?

2. I already agreed with that wholeheartedly. You really weren’t listening were you?

You’re like Maria shouting ‘LIBERAL SUPPORTER’ automatically in response to argument on her politics.

Banning smoking in cars was NSW, and distractions it causes are huge; getting a smoke out, lighting it, Ashing and also bush fire threat, i think it is a good idea to ban smoking in cars for these reasons, not because it will effect you passengers.

Also this “Campaign” isn’t anti smoking it is anti ciggy butt, when i was approached while i was smoking they didn’t mention how smoking effects my health just about the butts in the street.

As a smoker I am considerate of those around me when I smoke, I will not smoke around a pregnant woman, or child and i will attempt to ditch my ciggy butt in a bin, if you can’t be considerate of others and understand the simple concept of tidying up after yourself, then maybe you don’t have a place in society.

oh yes rg youre piercing repetition of softhead propaganda has just humbled me. youre dazzling theatrical presentation of facts which prove me wrong has been masterful.

but the facts still remain thus:

1 – butts are not litter

any more than a fallen leaf (except the plastic leaves which also refuse to bio-degrade)

2 – smokers are targetted for social engineering, using ‘litter’ as the stalking horse.

Using that approach i could demand a campaign against fast food wrappings which litter the streets.

that coud be my stalking horse to secretly target people who dare to eat fast food when perfectly acceptable lentils are available.

or try this simple test.

close your eyes and think of the colour red. think hard about nothing but the colour red for a good minute. then open your eyes.

you will notice suddenly how many things in your surroundings are coloured RED.

things which you never noticed before were red, if you noticed them at all.

Or

Create an advertising campaign focussing on something unobtrusive and unnoticeable. create awareness, spread lies and half truths. distort facts. promote the worst case scenario. talk about fish dying in polluted streams etc.

create a problem, define the offenders, persecute them.

start singing the horst wessel lied.

Stop trying to remove you argument from context bonfire. Thats the third time thus far and it still isn’t working.

I swear, it’s like arguing with Eric Cartman. Theres a robotic satellite dish hanging from his butt but he still refuses to acknowledge the possibility that aliens probed him.

Maybe all times I raped his arguments in the past have left him too loose to notice.

Taking a step back from the argument, and looking at it in another focus;

If Cig. butts weren’t a litter problem, the young lads handing out butt disposal advice wouldn’t be there would they ?

Since they are, it is a problem. Get over yourself if you think it’s not.

An estimated 7 billion butts are littered every year.
Bonfire If you don’t want to responsible for your ciggy butts that’s up to you, but do you smoke at home? do you put the cigarette into an ash tray or do you leave them all throughout your house and back yard?
Do you smoke in the car? do you flick ciggys out the window (Causing Bush fires) or do you put in the cars ash tray?

Take some responsibility for you actions in this world, because it’s not just your and will effect others.

if it burns, it can go in the stanley steamer, but briquettes would be better.

Don’t shout at me either, I’m correcting my ways…

i see, because it doesnt instantly go poof and become a mung bean, that degradation doesnt count ?

please.

its a tiny bundle of fibres. they degrade. they weigh almost nothing.

unnoticeable to the general public.

show me something which says ‘canberra – home of millions of butts which refuse to bio-degrade in defiance of the laws of physics’.

nothing you have presented alters my opinion, which is based on a study of the available evidence.

you are a victim of social engineering. the propaganda has leached into your soft softhead.

and what the hell has breastfeeding got to do with anything ?

If youse smokers don’t stop polluting the atmosphere and littering the Territory with your filtered butts I’ll ask the ex-public housing deb to lecture you on the evils of killing the planet and get the electorally disappointed peggie putt to shout in your general direction.

You are the one applying facts out of context to shore up your argument bonfire. I direct argument at exactly what you claim as facts and place them back into context to point out that they are false.

In response you attack my argument style to try and trick people, but clearly it isn’t working.

I’ll reiterate, a butt is biodegradable, but it doesn’t degrade with any speed so as to be irrelavant. Cigarette filters take 18 months to 10 years to degrade.

A single butt is near weightless, but people smoke more than one and there is more than one smoker.

I’m the one providing facts not just opinion, clearly researched and put into context. You’re throwing snippets to tell half the truth and you avoid confronting the content of what I say to boot.

BTW apart from me has any one eles spoken to the Ciggy Bin brigade?? They didn’t Harass me and say smoking was bad, just the butts and I agree. personaly i think if someone smokes in there car they need to dispose of the butt in a resposible fashion, tossing it out the window is not.

If i’m walking around smoking I will ditch a butt in a bin where avaible, if not too bad so sad and i would leave it for nature to deal with, now i will not (or i will at least try).

to quote from the handy dandy little card they gave me:

” No Butts about it this is litter…
Butts can take up to 12 years to decompose and release toxic chemicals into the soil and water”

jb – show where i stated that butts can be burnt and are then not litter.

the post you refer to was a response to burning a hamburger wrapper.

according to wiki, a ciggarette filter takes 1 to 12 years to bio-degrade.

this is in stark contrast to the absolute lies and propaganda that emanate from the social engineers.

slow means it’s man-made and still there a year later.

Trees are allowed to dump their leaves wherever they like but they’re not allowed to have sex with women or drink in bars. Terrible discrimination but I guess we have to take what we can get.

You’re the one who intimated that the ability to burn cigarette butts made it “not litter”, I pointed out a number of other things which burn which we don’t want all over the landscape. Therefore your argument on flammability is irrelevant.

Just put the damn butts out and in a bin for god’s sake.

And then we can retire the Hitler Youth.

i dont know what episode of star trek you are living in, but matter just doesnt ‘disappear’. whats your definition of slow or fast to degrade?

rg you have your opinion and i have mine. its just that mine are right.

you like to shift the goalposts or focus on a word or sentence in isolation to others in an attempt to bolster whatever flimsy misunderstanding of twisted softhead illogic you use.

facts to you are pliable, able to be twisted to obtain the result you seek. you regard your opinions as axioms, unchallengable except by those who engage in wrong thinking.

if facts ive presented are wrong – point that out. if you want to engage in name calling – bring it on.

my aim in this thread is to point out that:

butts are not litter.
smokers are subject to social engineering.

if you just want to argue for the sake of it – find yourself a spouse that can hector you until your ears bleed.

or perhaps just sit back with a nice sobranie gold and a glass of cognac – and chill out.

But hey, lets get some fun facts rolling to stick in the boot while I’m at it.

95% of cigarette filters are made of cellulose acetate, a plastic slow to degrade. Cellulose acetate fibers are thinner than sewing thread, white, and packed tightly together to create a filter; they can look like cotton. Cigarette filters are specifically designed to absorb vapors and to accumulate particulate smoke components.

Those filters not looking so peachy now eh?

A pack of filters is about 3.5 grams. Lots more than air. You don’t smoke one single cigarette in your life do you bon? You’re not the only smoker are you?

Look, I agree that in terms of the litter problem in general, its a stretch to say that butts are so much a part of the problem that smokers need to be targetted for government sponsored pestering. Its a waste of time and money, a political exercise to impress god knows who or what.

Its not about the litter, it’s about smoking.

But you say these things bonfire that are just patently untrue and they get my fired up for some reason.

Maybe it was the breastfeeding thing. Whatever.

demz fighting words…. I love it!!!!

Sarcasm is never clear when written so humbly.

You base litter on biodegradability then add in weight after I wipe you bloodied face across this site. Stop shifting your goal posts.

Litter is based on one definition, that being the dictionary one, that being carelessly discarded waste.

My ship is not sinking. Indeed, you have no ship to stand on at all waterboy.

they might weigh as much as air and they maybe bio-degrablahable… but they still look ugly everywhere…

a used filter weighs about as much as air. thats like saying dust is litter.

its clear my comment re oil spills was sarcasm.

give it up.

your ships sinking.

a butt is not litter

That was your assertion there you goon. Your comparison to support it was also shot down. What was that you said about changing goal posts?

As for the issue of social engineering to get people to stop smoking. Yes, it happens in abundance. Agreed.

somehow oil spills are now the fault of smokers

Oh for fucks sake, this inference is so far off track it’s past the horizon. Interesting to see you invoke victimisation to try and win some cheap points.

I think dropped chewing gum is just as ugly. Does anyone remember the chewing gum board in civic? Is it still there?

I think the bright coloured advisers are a fantasic idea. Why not use them for a variety of warnings. During national Healthy Heart Week they can go up to overweight people and talk to them about weight loss interventions. Perhaps they could also spend some time talking to the smackheads about options to dropping needles – and give them a free used needle case.

rg dont define an argument that then ‘proves’ my evidence to be wrong.

i maintained that butts are a litter problem no more than leaves on trees are a litter problem.

somehow, smokers are targetted for social engineering, using ‘litter’ as the stalking horse.

some softhead then parrotted the soaked in propaganda about butts. which i refuted with a fact about filter composition.

somehow oil spills are now the fault of smokers.

all i can say to that one is unless you walk or catch an electric bicycle, you share the blame for every oil spill that occurs.

keep shifting the goal posts.

please.

for that matter, so does plastic, styrofoam, and rubber tyres.

oil burns pretty well too bonfire.

shall we cover the landscape in it?

… what the hell was that? Sorry, your train of thought just slipped off the tracks.

To sum up, if your sole criteria for litter is biodegradability then you are at odds with basic english language definition and simple observable reality.

Theory and practice are separate things bonfire. Hook yourself up with thought processes that aren’t entirely egocentrix once in a while eh?

you can lead a whore to culture, but you cant make her think.

if it burns, it can go in the stanley steamer, but briquettes would be better.

this pollution myth is a canard of anti-smoking social engineering do gooder softhead zealots.

refute their propaganda with evidence.

Will those handy-dandy bins fit cigar ends, or are they limited to cigarette butts ?

But just to get in your headspace for a moment for arguments sake bonfire (damn, the breeze is scorching in here).

The gubbmint plants the trees by the road and maintains them somewhat. They also have road sweepers that run through and scoop up all those leaves that get dropped in the autumn.

By all means, let me know if this isn’t happening any more or if the collections are selective.

So they are taking responsibility for their ‘litter’, why shouldn’t you?

Doesn’t change the fact that butts are still 100% artificial (no matter what they are derived from) sit around forever as indicated above and are filthy to boot. That’s litter az!

My paper burger wrappers are derived from wood pulp too, but I bet if I tossed one in the Stanley Steamer you’d crack the shits at me.

and cellulose takes a very long time to bio-degrade.

As does pretty much anything which doesn’t get eaten by something.

ciggarette filters are made from cellulose acetate, which is a by-product of wood-pulp manufacturing.

Not only is cellulose acetate bio-degradable, but it is derived from a renewable resource.

Why do you softheads swallow hook line and sinker every piece of misinformation you are fed.

I was just approached by two of the Ciggy butt crusaders, I was smoking and also standing right next to an ash tray, they gave me the spiel not so much anti smoking but definitely anti Ciggy Butt and i scored a handy dandy Butt bin.

I appreciate the work they do.

bonfire – what would make you think that butts and leaves fall into the same ca… hang on – I’m not even gunna bother.

Thumper – you’ve done well, although I think that if I were given the oppurtunity I would have to pretend I’m a jesus freak and keep interupting their diatribe with “jesus still loves you” and “have you heard the good word”. Sure enough they’d bugger off, but I’d be tempted to follow them for a little while just so they know what it feels like to be harangued by random morons.

Shoe don’t fit so good when its on the other foot.

if a butt is litter then its in the same category as a leaf falling from a tree.

Define the logic underlying that conclusion.

Honestly, how can you say things like that and still think yourself a rational man?

There aren’t needle exchanges in most parks either but it doesn’t stop the junkies from dropping their needles on the ground.

Thumper – an excellent solution to those twits.

Personally, if they approach me, I will blast them. I don’t drop my butts anywhere but an ashtray and if one isn’t available, I have a container for them.

FFS. Haven’t these people got better things to do?

I think if you hear them out they give you a free metal cannister to use as a portable ashtray.
I think this issue, like much litter in Canberra is made much worse by the fact there are no bins in most parts of Canberra (parks, nature reserves etc).

I don’t smoke anymore but I would be pissed at do-gooders approaching me with big false smiles and warning me not the throw my ciggie butt. I guess better than fines though.

The problem is, whereas the odd butt here and there is no big deal, when they start accumulating in drains and the like they really do look like shit and should at least be cleaned up. Perhaps the brightly coloured young people could be employed to sweep up the spare butts as well.

I also like how these people need to be both brigtly dressed and young; when both of these qualities combined would tend to set off the “potential fuck-stick” alarm.

sorry smorking is a word that appears on engrish.com a lot

Bonfire Im convinced that you are a comic genius….. I litter butts when I am feeling lazy or angry at the world… but also I understand that its bad and try not to do it on most occassions..
It helps that I only smork when I drink these days…

Oh dear. Here it comes. BRACE BRACE BRACE.

typical softhead social engineering idiocy.

a butt is not litter.

if a butt is litter then its in the same category as a leaf falling from a tree. i dont see patrols of people chiding trees.

the vitriolic propaganda is just nuts. poisoning fish, polluting the water table, killing baby lambs etc. it looks like the anti-plastic bag propaganda poorly reworded.

its also a beautiful example of creeping illegality. the zealots ban smoking indoors, at your desk where you dont harm anyone, forcing you outdoors. they are now banning it in pubs, forcing you outdoors. the zeaots then act outraged, agog and incensed that THERE ARE BUTTS OUTDOORS.

Wringing their hands they exclaim ‘if only they would surrender their lawful enjoyment of a legally sold product and enjoy mungbean salads like i do’.

i think its time they just went about their business and let smokers be. its not as ifd smokers are unaware of the alleged effects of smoking – that propaganda has been blasted in our faces for 50 years.

i shall continue to ignore this idiotic law and if one of these hitler youth darlings approaches me they will cop a spray.

maybe they were just reacting to being lectured by children?

I saw them warming up outside the Canberra Centre earlier in the week whilst waiting for my lovely wife to meet me for lunch. At least 3 or 4 smokers watched from a distance & then threw their butts on the ground & walked off. 2 of them within inches of an ashtray. Not all smokers are as good as you obviously Thumper.

Thumper. Marry me.