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What is happening with the bus network?

By Tyyco 20 March 2015 48

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Yesterday morning I took the bus from Phillip to Civic at about 8am, or I should say, I eventually took the bus from Phillip to Civic, getting on a bus at 8:40am. The 300 series buses were few and far between and when they did come, they would (or could not stop) as they were full.

When I finally managed to board a bus, thanks to a passenger alighting, when we got to the Woden interchange there were probably 200 people waiting to board. (My bus took two lucky souls)

A elderly gentleman on the bus said the situation was the same on Tuesday.

Does anyone know what has changed or  what is going on with the buses?


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What is happening with the bus network?
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dungfungus 10:38 pm 25 Mar 15

Evilomlap said :

Kim F said :

dungfungus said :

Evilomlap said :

dungfungus said :

It seems every second ACTION bus now has full advertising on the sides and glass windows above.
I am not sure if people inside can see out but people on the outside can’t see in and more importantly, drivers can’t see through both sides.
I believe this is a safety hazard as when when a bus is waiting to turn left at an intersection and a car is waiting to turn right, the driver of the car has to wait until the bus has cleared the intersection to enable the car driver to proceed with safety after it can be seen that no traffic is coming from the left.
I understand that tinted windows on cars are illegal so what law gives buses the concession to make their window glass opaque?

I can speak as both a current bus passenger and former driver of heavy vehicles. It’s not a visibility issue for either. You can see out the windows easily as a passenger. As a driver, you don’t do headchecks as you would in a car, the drivers don’t use the same windows the passengers do. As a driver you rely heavily on your mirrors (which are far larger than a normal car and provide excellent visibility), your indicators, and common sense. You can’t get a heavy vehicle licence without learning a lot about this stuff.

No, no, no!
I am talking about someone driving another vehicle who pulls up next to one of these buses covered with signwriting.
They can’t see through the bus in order to gauge whether there is any cross traffic coming.

Would have to be a bleedin’ high car to be able to see through the busses windows!

LOL my thoughts exactly.

Never in almost 20 years of driving on city and rural roads have I encountered a situation where I have needed to look *through* a bus to gauge traffic, even when driving vehicles high enough to even make this a possibility.

It is also a problem for passengers:
http://www.danielbowen.com/2013/12/12/train-window-ads/
Have a good laugh at the expense of the visually disabled why don’t you.

Evilomlap 12:13 pm 24 Mar 15

Kim F said :

dungfungus said :

Evilomlap said :

dungfungus said :

It seems every second ACTION bus now has full advertising on the sides and glass windows above.
I am not sure if people inside can see out but people on the outside can’t see in and more importantly, drivers can’t see through both sides.
I believe this is a safety hazard as when when a bus is waiting to turn left at an intersection and a car is waiting to turn right, the driver of the car has to wait until the bus has cleared the intersection to enable the car driver to proceed with safety after it can be seen that no traffic is coming from the left.
I understand that tinted windows on cars are illegal so what law gives buses the concession to make their window glass opaque?

I can speak as both a current bus passenger and former driver of heavy vehicles. It’s not a visibility issue for either. You can see out the windows easily as a passenger. As a driver, you don’t do headchecks as you would in a car, the drivers don’t use the same windows the passengers do. As a driver you rely heavily on your mirrors (which are far larger than a normal car and provide excellent visibility), your indicators, and common sense. You can’t get a heavy vehicle licence without learning a lot about this stuff.

No, no, no!
I am talking about someone driving another vehicle who pulls up next to one of these buses covered with signwriting.
They can’t see through the bus in order to gauge whether there is any cross traffic coming.

Would have to be a bleedin’ high car to be able to see through the busses windows!

LOL my thoughts exactly.

Never in almost 20 years of driving on city and rural roads have I encountered a situation where I have needed to look *through* a bus to gauge traffic, even when driving vehicles high enough to even make this a possibility.

Kim F 7:36 am 24 Mar 15

dungfungus said :

Evilomlap said :

dungfungus said :

It seems every second ACTION bus now has full advertising on the sides and glass windows above.
I am not sure if people inside can see out but people on the outside can’t see in and more importantly, drivers can’t see through both sides.
I believe this is a safety hazard as when when a bus is waiting to turn left at an intersection and a car is waiting to turn right, the driver of the car has to wait until the bus has cleared the intersection to enable the car driver to proceed with safety after it can be seen that no traffic is coming from the left.
I understand that tinted windows on cars are illegal so what law gives buses the concession to make their window glass opaque?

I can speak as both a current bus passenger and former driver of heavy vehicles. It’s not a visibility issue for either. You can see out the windows easily as a passenger. As a driver, you don’t do headchecks as you would in a car, the drivers don’t use the same windows the passengers do. As a driver you rely heavily on your mirrors (which are far larger than a normal car and provide excellent visibility), your indicators, and common sense. You can’t get a heavy vehicle licence without learning a lot about this stuff.

No, no, no!
I am talking about someone driving another vehicle who pulls up next to one of these buses covered with signwriting.
They can’t see through the bus in order to gauge whether there is any cross traffic coming.

Would have to be a bleedin’ high car to be able to see through the busses windows!

JC 12:03 am 24 Mar 15

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

Ideas like this should have been explored more fully, especially when you consider that we could have started by using existing buses to keep cost down, then move to newer buses, then use the newer buses for the existing bus network while we put the rail down over the busways. If we were smart we might even have been able to build a bus/traim hybrid system whereby the route remains static but the vehicles vary depending on demand.

I like the idea of modernising public transport, but the whole light rail concept just doesn’t seem very well thought out.

More or less what they are doing actually. Started off using existing buses and routes. Introduced a high frequency (by Australian standards) route, with new buses and moving towards light rail.

As for the thought, been plenty of thought put into it really. The whole corridor has for many many years now (actually from the very early days of Gungahlin) been developed as a high density transport corridor, the light rail is the natural extension of that.

rommeldog56 8:36 pm 23 Mar 15

rosscoact said :

Re the roads in Gungahlin, Gundaroo Drive, Horsepark Drive, Gungahlin Drive, Flemington Road are all pretty congested of a morning and will require duplication in the near future as the town keeps growing.

If the tram won’t stop the conjection and the need to duplicate roads, then remind me why the ACT Gov’t is ploughing ahead with it ?

gazket 7:32 pm 23 Mar 15

Surely there is a security risk with people out side not able to see inside the bus. What happens if a Mad Monis takes over a bus. He has a big advantage, no one can see him.

Someone can steal an advertised bus drive right up to parliament house with the inside loaded with anything inside . No one can see.

dungfungus 5:05 pm 23 Mar 15

Evilomlap said :

dungfungus said :

It seems every second ACTION bus now has full advertising on the sides and glass windows above.
I am not sure if people inside can see out but people on the outside can’t see in and more importantly, drivers can’t see through both sides.
I believe this is a safety hazard as when when a bus is waiting to turn left at an intersection and a car is waiting to turn right, the driver of the car has to wait until the bus has cleared the intersection to enable the car driver to proceed with safety after it can be seen that no traffic is coming from the left.
I understand that tinted windows on cars are illegal so what law gives buses the concession to make their window glass opaque?

I can speak as both a current bus passenger and former driver of heavy vehicles. It’s not a visibility issue for either. You can see out the windows easily as a passenger. As a driver, you don’t do headchecks as you would in a car, the drivers don’t use the same windows the passengers do. As a driver you rely heavily on your mirrors (which are far larger than a normal car and provide excellent visibility), your indicators, and common sense. You can’t get a heavy vehicle licence without learning a lot about this stuff.

No, no, no!
I am talking about someone driving another vehicle who pulls up next to one of these buses covered with signwriting.
They can’t see through the bus in order to gauge whether there is any cross traffic coming.

Evilomlap 4:39 pm 23 Mar 15

dungfungus said :

It seems every second ACTION bus now has full advertising on the sides and glass windows above.
I am not sure if people inside can see out but people on the outside can’t see in and more importantly, drivers can’t see through both sides.
I believe this is a safety hazard as when when a bus is waiting to turn left at an intersection and a car is waiting to turn right, the driver of the car has to wait until the bus has cleared the intersection to enable the car driver to proceed with safety after it can be seen that no traffic is coming from the left.
I understand that tinted windows on cars are illegal so what law gives buses the concession to make their window glass opaque?

I can speak as both a current bus passenger and former driver of heavy vehicles. It’s not a visibility issue for either. You can see out the windows easily as a passenger. As a driver, you don’t do headchecks as you would in a car, the drivers don’t use the same windows the passengers do. As a driver you rely heavily on your mirrors (which are far larger than a normal car and provide excellent visibility), your indicators, and common sense. You can’t get a heavy vehicle licence without learning a lot about this stuff.

rosscoact 3:53 pm 23 Mar 15

watto23 said :

rubaiyat said :

dungfungus said :

Remember, the same people who were responsible for these projects (some of which were bungled and became outrageously expensive) are the same people that are going to build the tramway.
Are you comfortable with that?

You don’t seem to have an issue with waste and competence: So long as it builds roads.

btw Are you fingering the Labor/Greens for this or are you tossing in the Liberals as well?

Or any and all contractors and consultants involved?

Agree, the problem with our conservative commenter’s here is its all doom and gloom. They also ignore the facts when it suits them.

I’m not a fan of the proposed tram, I think it offers a marginal improvement over buses. However I can the government has a plan, by creating a high density transit corridor, to firstly increase the number homes and also increase potential patronage on the tram. So at least the plan is coherent.

What I’d like to know is what would the cost of say a Rapid bus network to the town centres cost? If they built a road for buses that could travel between towncentres at 100km/h without stopping. that would be much more time efficient. Haven’t got a clue on the costs though. However that doesn’t work to well when creating a high density trasport corridor.

Also while the tram will cost money, I’m almost certain this means many of Gungahlins roads will not get/need the improvements over roads elsewhere. So there will be savings there.

Instead of scare mongering and conspiracy theories which seems the norm these days when someone opposes a political decision, it would be nice to use facts.

I have the idea that the grade separated Belco to city busway was $120-$130M for 7.5k in 2006. I don’t know if it was two way or not. That’s 3/4 of the length and a decade ago so you’d have to make allowances for that. On the other hand there’s no bridges on the City-Gungahlin route.

Re the roads in Gungahlin, Gundaroo Drive, Horsepark Drive, Gungahlin Drive, Flemington Road are all pretty congested of a morning and will require duplication in the near future as the town keeps growing.

dungfungus 2:13 pm 23 Mar 15

rubaiyat said :

OK then HOW do you come to your conclusion above?

Just curious about the process.

Well, unless you live in Gungahlin and have to travel to the city return (and vice versa) what is the point in driving from Tuggers to the city or Gungahlin (if one can find somewhere to park) and catch the tram to one extremity and then return?
Only a die hard tram enthusiast would do that.

dungfungus 2:09 pm 23 Mar 15

rubaiyat said :

dungfungus said :

Remember, the same people who were responsible for these projects (some of which were bungled and became outrageously expensive) are the same people that are going to build the tramway.
Are you comfortable with that?

You don’t seem to have an issue with waste and competence: So long as it builds roads.

btw Are you fingering the Labor/Greens for this or are you tossing in the Liberals as well?

Or any and all contractors and consultants involved?

?

VYBerlinaV8_is_back 1:51 pm 23 Mar 15

watto23 said :

What I’d like to know is what would the cost of say a Rapid bus network to the town centres cost? If they built a road for buses that could travel between towncentres at 100km/h without stopping. that would be much more time efficient. Haven’t got a clue on the costs though. However that doesn’t work to well when creating a high density trasport corridor.

Ideas like this should have been explored more fully, especially when you consider that we could have started by using existing buses to keep cost down, then move to newer buses, then use the newer buses for the existing bus network while we put the rail down over the busways. If we were smart we might even have been able to build a bus/traim hybrid system whereby the route remains static but the vehicles vary depending on demand.

I like the idea of modernising public transport, but the whole light rail concept just doesn’t seem very well thought out.

Maya123 1:50 pm 23 Mar 15

watto23 said :

rubaiyat said :

dungfungus said :

Remember, the same people who were responsible for these projects (some of which were bungled and became outrageously expensive) are the same people that are going to build the tramway.
Are you comfortable with that?

You don’t seem to have an issue with waste and competence: So long as it builds roads.

btw Are you fingering the Labor/Greens for this or are you tossing in the Liberals as well?

Or any and all contractors and consultants involved?

Agree, the problem with our conservative commenter’s here is its all doom and gloom. They also ignore the facts when it suits them.

I’m not a fan of the proposed tram, I think it offers a marginal improvement over buses. However I can the government has a plan, by creating a high density transit corridor, to firstly increase the number homes and also increase potential patronage on the tram. So at least the plan is coherent.

What I’d like to know is what would the cost of say a Rapid bus network to the town centres cost? If they built a road for buses that could travel between towncentres at 100km/h without stopping. that would be much more time efficient. Haven’t got a clue on the costs though. However that doesn’t work to well when creating a high density trasport corridor.

Also while the tram will cost money, I’m almost certain this means many of Gungahlins roads will not get/need the improvements over roads elsewhere. So there will be savings there.

Instead of scare mongering and conspiracy theories which seems the norm these days when someone opposes a political decision, it would be nice to use facts.

Seattle appeared to build it’s network this way. They created a bus transport route where one day the tram would go. A number of years ago I visited Seattle and took a bus along this route. Initially the bus ran on diesel and drove on the road; then it stopped and changed to overhead electricity and entered a light rail tunnel with tracks. In the centre of the city it pulled up to let passengers off at a low platform. Last year I again visited Seattle and instead of the bus there was now light rail. The train again entered the city area through those tunnels and pulled up at the platform that the bus had stopped at years earlier. Buses still come to these platforms from other routes. The buses and light train all line up together. This light rail is such a success they are extending it.

watto23 1:19 pm 23 Mar 15

rubaiyat said :

dungfungus said :

Remember, the same people who were responsible for these projects (some of which were bungled and became outrageously expensive) are the same people that are going to build the tramway.
Are you comfortable with that?

You don’t seem to have an issue with waste and competence: So long as it builds roads.

btw Are you fingering the Labor/Greens for this or are you tossing in the Liberals as well?

Or any and all contractors and consultants involved?

Agree, the problem with our conservative commenter’s here is its all doom and gloom. They also ignore the facts when it suits them.

I’m not a fan of the proposed tram, I think it offers a marginal improvement over buses. However I can the government has a plan, by creating a high density transit corridor, to firstly increase the number homes and also increase potential patronage on the tram. So at least the plan is coherent.

What I’d like to know is what would the cost of say a Rapid bus network to the town centres cost? If they built a road for buses that could travel between towncentres at 100km/h without stopping. that would be much more time efficient. Haven’t got a clue on the costs though. However that doesn’t work to well when creating a high density trasport corridor.

Also while the tram will cost money, I’m almost certain this means many of Gungahlins roads will not get/need the improvements over roads elsewhere. So there will be savings there.

Instead of scare mongering and conspiracy theories which seems the norm these days when someone opposes a political decision, it would be nice to use facts.

1967 1:15 pm 23 Mar 15

So you had to wait 40 mins for a bus.
I’m still standing in the middle of Northboure Ave waiting for a train.

rubaiyat 12:57 pm 23 Mar 15

OK then HOW do you come to your conclusion above?

Just curious about the process.

dungfungus 12:07 pm 23 Mar 15

rubaiyat said :

dungfungus said :

Every Canberran who has a car (and that is just about everyone) can use the aforementioned roads.
Very few will be able to use the tram.

Really? How?

You don’t seem unintelligent but you do come to some quite extraordinary conclusions.

No many of us have common sense AND intelligence, though.

rubaiyat 11:59 am 23 Mar 15

dungfungus said :

Remember, the same people who were responsible for these projects (some of which were bungled and became outrageously expensive) are the same people that are going to build the tramway.
Are you comfortable with that?

You don’t seem to have an issue with waste and competence: So long as it builds roads.

btw Are you fingering the Labor/Greens for this or are you tossing in the Liberals as well?

Or any and all contractors and consultants involved?

JC 11:35 am 23 Mar 15

rubaiyat said :

Sad as I am to admit it* they also seem to be well into the engineering drawings. Probably to stop anyone backing out of the project.

Well that was the election commitment of the now government at the last election. So shock horror the government is doing what it said.

JC 11:33 am 23 Mar 15

dungfungus said :

rubaiyat said :

dungfungus said :

They are cheap when you are spending someone else’s money with no accountability and this is the core issue with this folly.

Cheaper than the 800m of Cotter Road duplication?

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/14m-bill-to-upgrade-800m-of-road-20120919-267bn.html

And the Kings Avenue overpass?

http://www.nationalcapital.gov.au/index.php/past-projects/564-new-kings-avenue-parkes-way-intersection

And the Majura Parkway?

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/majura-parkway-project-facing-crisis-as-earthworks-contractor-set-to-abandon-job-20140505-zr4uh.html

…and the Gungahlin Drive Extension? and the William Slim Drive & Barton Highway intersection? and…

Every Canberran who has a car (and that is just about everyone) can use the aforementioned roads.
Very few will be able to use the tram.

Umm actually no, in the same vane as your road example, everyone can also use the tram. Whether one needs to or wants to is another matter, which also very much applies to roads.

I personally am offended at the waste of money spend duplicating roads in Tuggernong, that I am paying for but never ever use. I would prefer my share of the money be spent duplicating the last bit of William Hovell Drive. But that isn’t how it works is it?

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