5 November 2006

What will be left in the old Civic?

| johnboy
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[Garema Place from the expanded Canberra Centre]

I know it’s more than a little late in the piece to have misgivings, but I’d just like to ask now that it’s too late: What the hell are they doing to Civic?

The expansion of the Canberra Centre is big, I would suggest that those downplaying its size haven’t walked the length of both levels. While it’s funny to hear that the roof leaks, it seems likely these teething problems will eventually be fixed. Things in this hulking arcology do seem to largely be bigger and better than their competitors in Garema Place, City Walk and the Melbourne and Sydney buildings. Will I go to Dymocks when the enourmous Borders is just around the corner? Will I go to the ever crappier Greater Union when the 8-screen Dendy Cinema is just upstairs?

Probably not, and I actually worry about these things.

So what’s the problem?

Well I am not an urban planner. But I do know that most thinking on urban planning, and my own experience, suggests that mixed use creates the most pleasant urban environment. That’s a mixture of housing, offices, retail, bars, restaurants and other entertainments. The most pleasant cities tend to have fallen on this model through historical accident.

The Canberra Centre’s expansion seems to be directly contrary to this. It’s a step back in time to dormitory suburbs feeding the retail zone and it’s entirely reliant on cars to move the people from one to the other and back.

To be honest though the thing that bugs me the most is the way the centre is going to suck the life out of the public domain.

Let’s not overly romanticise Civic’s past. It’s very rarely functioned as much of a city centre. But at it’s best it is still a place where people can see, and be seen, in public.

You can stage a protest, I can report it, passers by can see it and join in if they agree (or disagree).

Within the sterilised and air-conditoned centre there is no public discourse. As RiotACT discovered you can’t even get permission to take photographs inside the centre. You can’t even be refused permission and get a reason why, you just get run around and blanked.

It’s too late now. But I think in 20 years time people will look back at Section 84 and view it as one of the biggest failures of planning in Canberra’s very poor history since the abolition of the NCDC.

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There is a Visotors’ centre on northbourne avenue.

So the solution to the lack of hustle is to drain the pond completely?

I can’t say i’ve ever used the information desk anywhere and I doubt (but would be open to being pleasantly surprised) that the Canberra Centre desk is going to show me the way to Landspeed Records.

suck the life out of Garema Pl and the city?
sorry to say, but there has never been great street shopping like syd and melb CBDs. it’s the nature of the city that we live in.
do you see the ACT government funding an information centre in the ciy either? that’s what other capital cities all over the world do but not here in Canberra. the Canberra Centre pays for the only information desk in the city.

thanks danman – good info.

Yeah that document as i said – is more geared at Ip rights of a photographer and copyrighting their works.

I give copies to all my clients before signing contracts.

Interesting document Danman, the only bit relevant to the argument above would appear to be:
“Be aware though, that the owner of a property may impose restrictions regarding entry onto the property. It may sometimes be the case, as with photographs of people, that certain unauthorised uses of a photograph of a particular building may raise issues under other laws, such as trade
practices legislation.”

also if your into IP rights ain regards to a building – and ownership of IP in general in regard to photography – this is a good link.

captainwhorebags8:20 am 07 Nov 06

Dammit, I must have screwed up the link (sorry Kerces, I tried). Here it is in plain text:
http://4020.net/unposed/photorights.shtml

captainwhorebags8:19 am 07 Nov 06

Regarding photo attempts, “here’s a great page for amateur and professional photogs looking to ply their trade around town.

In a nutshell, owners of private property can ask you not to take photos. The only way they can enforce this is by asking you to leave. They can’t take your camera, demand you delete photos or assault you in any way.

Kerces, I suggest you shave your beard before any further photography attempts.

Woody Mann-Caruso4:05 pm 06 Nov 06

they have no special legal priveleges.

That’s not true. If it is enclosed land, and if you leave a gate open, they can require you to give them your name and residential address. Or shoot you, if you’ve got a beard.

yes kerces – therefore it is a public place.

they have no special legal priveleges.

if you take a photo in there what is the ONLY thing they can do to you ?

ask you to leave.

if they try and take your camera or delete photos – by taking your camera off you – i think the legal ground shifts to them committing a crime against you.

you dont need permission to take photos in the canberra centre.

it is a public place.

No it’s not, it’s privately owned by the QIC. They just choose to let the public in.

Or better still: “Goats milked to death…”

Maybe the headline should be: “Goats milked for every cent in Canberra Centre”.

haha. But they don’t have beards yet.

what about the kids ?

“Shoppers flee as gunmen execute bearded intruders in Canberra Centre”.

Absent Diane1:25 pm 06 Nov 06

im confused about goats.

Bloody goats

Woody Mann-Caruso12:58 pm 06 Nov 06

I’m pretty sure it’s “enclosed land”, not a public place, which is handy because they can legally kill trespassing goats.

I don’t understand the phobia some shops have about taking photos. I wanted to buy a dining setting last year, so I went to Domayne where there was one I really liked. Rather than drag my other half out on the weekend when he’d rather watch the rugby and drink beer, I thought I’d get a photo on my PDA. One of the sales assistants told me it’s not allowed, so I told her she’d just lost a sale and bought a nice table elsewhere.

Back on topic, I agree with bonfire re permission to take still photographs. However, if I rocked up with a tripod, video camera and crew, I’d ask permission first. If denied that (or not given a response), hey, I’d pullout the MiniDV and head for the manager’s office to ask a few questions…then flog the tape to ACA (or RA).

you dont need permission to take photos in the canberra centre.

it is a public place.

of course they can ask you to leave, but it remains a public place.

civic has been constantly evolving, i think the worst thing that happened was surrendering public roads to create the monaro mall.

its been downhill ever since.

The ability to execute wives?

JB,

you sounded a little like the Prince of Wales having a spray against London’s architecture just then…

I had a look last week – it’s bloody huge! There are some shops I haven’t seen before, but really it’s just another mega-mall with the same old chain stores. I’ll be avoiding Civic til the mess is gone and I can get a carpark again. As It probably will suck the life out of the Civic retail sector until the city grows big enough to support the extra commercial space.

Airport feeling sums it up beautifully, but is the new complex all worth it? Parking lately here in Civic is painful!

anyone remember the time wen garema place had lovely wooden seating, garden beds, a bigred double decker bus cafe, a big w with mosaic tiled walls and a funkier chess pitt… change is not all bad but one cant help but get the feel that the decision makers in this town dont have a bloody clue. That clock marked a tragic change point ..too big for the small area it faces coldly staring at people…”time is up!! stop enjoying, back to work pawns” Thank jeepers for gus who at least put up the fight for alfresco dining. There is hope. A town is, after all, its people.

Woody Mann-Caruso10:13 pm 05 Nov 06

You can stage a protest, I can report it, passers by can see it and join in if they agree (or disagree)

You still can. The people who will be irresistably drawn to the megaplex like mouthbreathing moths to a flame are the same people who probably wouldn’t give a damn what you have to say anyway, so what’s the loss?

Garema Place will get the bus crowd, and office workers at lunchtime.

Maybe they could install travelloaders like in airports to move along quicker.

As for the parents room. No suitable chairs to feed a baby and the change tables were so high my wife couldn’t even put our little girl on the thing, let alone change her. Most people changing babies will be mothers and most females aren’t over 6ft tall.

We made a point of it to the Concierge although not sure if anything will be done.

Meh…I only find myself in Civic to see the occasional band, go out for tea or visit Landspeed. I didn’t even know what the new building was until I read about it on here.

I got the airport feeling as well. Mostly I suspect due the sheer length of the thing as well as the boarded up unfinished nature.

The centre is going to have a huge advantage just through the parking. Chances are you’ll pass a shop selling what you’re looking for long before you get near to an exit to garema place.

I took a stroll through the new shopping maul on the weekend after the Walk against Warming and it struck me mainly as feeling like the inside of an airport – somewhere you pass through on the way to somewhere better.

If Canberra’s breeders choose to spend their day happily wandering about there (the ones that escaped the gravitational pull of Brand Depot) then all the better, keep them out of the infinitely more pleasant Garema Place and the shops with a smidge of character.

As for Greater Union Civic – it’s always been a hideous nightmare, bring on the Dendy Gold Class I say (or whatever they are going to call it)

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