Will a new Canberra Stadium be built in my lifetime? Canberrans should be sceptical

Christine Stevens ahhh here we go….same could be said about rainbow painted roundabouts and yet they seem to be priority…..

Christine Stevens ever been to a Raiders game that starts at 730 on a winters night? Temperatures hovering around zero, uncomfortable seats and a lack of overhead cover see people stay at home, apart from diehard supporters. Yet when games are played mid afternoon attendances go up for some reason. Instead of looking at the raw numbers and saying that football games at GIO are indicative of people not attending look at the reasons they don’t attend and one of the big reasons is how rundown the stadium is.

Matt Jorgensen That complaint about the condition of the stadium impacting attendance would be more plausible if attendance numbers hadn’t always been low.

If attendance is up for mid-afternoon games, I wonder why the Raiders and Brumbies don’t choose to play day games more often. Unless maybe they don’t really care about getting more bums on seats (warm or cold).

Corey Karl Rainbow painted roundabouts? Plural? I’m only aware of one. A bit of public art that cost the ACT government $6000 in 2017, and $16,000 to repaint it with a new design more recently. But I’m guessing that any priority shown to public art and to inclusion might be too much for you. I wonder why that might be?

I’ve never counted all the roundabouts in this city, but I’m pretty sure they could paint them all with rainbows for cheaper than the cost of building a new stadium.

Christine Stevens the reason more afternoon games aren’t played is simple. TV. More people stay at home and watch games on TV. And the NRL and broadcasters dictate start times. People stay home out of convenience as well. However that never dictates how big a stadium should be. You build the stadium for attendance potential at a variety of events and not to the membership base, which for the Raiders hovers around the 24000 mark,so regardless of them attending or not you build the stadium to house 30000.

Matt Jorgensen Right. The NRL wants night games because that gets the bigger TV audiences that they make so much money from. Whether there’s 10,000 or 20,000 people watching the game in the stadium doesn’t make enough of a financial difference to them. Especially when they’ve got the government to wear the costs of building and maintaining the stadium it’s full or empty.

If average attendance is 15,000 and you build a 30,000 or 50,000 or 80,000-seat stadium on the hopes that it will occasionally host events that might attract such large crowds, that’s like a single person buying an 8-bedroom house just in case they ever want/need the space. A very costly choice. Yet another reason why teams and leagues prefer not to build them and instead get governments to pay. Privatise profits, socialise costs.

Christine Stevens tell me you know nothing about the economics of stadia without telling me that.
It’s a shame that the Raiders and Brumbies don’t play in Queanbeyan as a new stadium would’ve been planned and started by now.
The local council in Canberra has no balls to do anything bold and hasn’t done so for 25 years.

Christine Stevens the Feds coughed up money for a new stadium in Townsville.

I think you’d be surprised by how much local football fans hate this government and its history of disappointing us in favour of AFL.

Yuri Shukost so if the current council has such a love in for bringing AFL games to Canberra, why haven’t they changed the heritage laws so that Manuka can be upgraded? It’s not that they like only one sport, they hate all sports equally.

Yuri Shukost They did. And quite a few other new stadia around the country. Which I think is a bad practice in general, but if they’re doing it elsewhere, it seems reasonable that they’d do it here, too.

I suspect that I might be surprised if that were the case. That seems like a very small and petty reason to hate someone.

Given that Act Labor has been in government, uninterrupted, for over 22 years, and that the Barr government specifically has been going for over 9 years, including 2 elections, either indicates that maybe local football fans don’t hate the government as much as you think, or that there aren’t enough local football fans to have an impact on ACT elections.

Christine Stevens or Barr trots the idea of a stadium out to give us a sliver of hope knowing full well the federal government will ask them to chip in som funding. Barr knows full well his council can’t afford that so it’s a pipedream.

Matt Jorgensen Of course the feds aren’t going to offer to pay for the whole thing with no contribution from the ACT government, and I can’t imagine that Barr or anyone else in government has suggested that as a possibility.

Christine Stevens simply put they are in a hole finances wise so even simple things like maintenance of roads and mowing are in the too hard basket. I’m glad this government don’t manage school raffles as that’s clearly beyond them.

Matt Jorgensen Really? What a strange notion. There’s road maintenance and mowing going on all the time.

But if you think it’s not enough, by all means vote for candidates you think can do a better job and who will build you whatever kind of stadium you want. If you think there’s no money for these things under the current government, where do you think the money’s going to come from under a new government?

Christine Stevens I’m not planning on voting for anyone in the election later this year.n

Matt Jorgensen In that case, I hope the candidates you choose not to vote for in the election you choose not to participate in all choose not to build you the stadium you want. 😉

Christine Stevens I’ve got more chance of the stadium being built than you have of cars being limited to 110km/h.

Matt Jorgensen I won’t lose much sleep over it. I think it would be good if governments did more to try to reduce the number of deaths and serious injuries on the roads, but I try to temper my expectations appropriately.

Christine Stevens they do try. Over the years without passive and active safety improving we would still see thousands die or be seriously injured. Yes I’m a petrolhead but I don’t feel the need to speed everywhere and anywhere. I genuinely believe that no government anywhere will ever try to mandate a maximum speed limit though.

Matt Jorgensen I think it‘s likely to happen in the next decade or two. It’s already happened for some heavy vehicles. And the EU now requires all new cars to have Intelligent Speed Limit Alert systems. They can be turned off, but if they’re proven to be effective, I think it’s likely that may change in the future.

I expect that it will be politically difficult. The car companies will try to stop it. The media (which gets a lot of advertising revenue from the automotive industry) will amplify their voices. And lots of voters, petrol heads or not, regularly speed and engage in other dangerous and illegal driving behaviours, and don’t want governments interfering with their “right” to do so.

Christine Stevens have to disagree there. Heavy vehicles have been speed limited for a long time. Personal vehicles are whole different proposition. Limiting a vehicle to the speed limit is not the way to go.
More people than not will turn them off and never turn them on.

Matt Jorgensen The way the systems work in the EU, the driver can turn it off, but they have to do it every time they start the vehicle. The systems default to ”on”.

You may be right that a majority of drivers want to break the law enough that they’ll turn the system off every time they get behind the wheel. I think it’s worth making the systems mandatory on all new vehicles sold in Australia, and then see what happens from there.

Christine Stevens it’s a system that not every manufacturer will put in a vehicle. And it’s not breaking the law when they turn it off.
If it were me I’d switch it off. Yet more intrusive technology making us mindless and unable to be trusted driving.

Christine Stevens no, it’s because the Liberals haven’t been an acceptable alternative because they’ve been out of step with the majority of Canberrans up until now.

If we could get a coalition of independents and moderate Liberals, I think Barr might get a scare.

Yuri Shukost If you’re suggesting that football fans who hate this government hate the Liberals even more, and hate the idea of a Liberal government so much that they continue to vote for Labor and Greens candidates, then I think that while they share similar electoral behaviours with the majority of Canberrans, they don’t share similar attitudes or motives. I don’t think the majority of Canberrans are particularly hateful. I think it’s the hateful football fans who are out of step with the majority.

That’s a big IF, and I don’t really see why there’d be much expectation from hateful football fans that such a coalition would get them the stadium they want (if there’s even agreement among them about a specific design and location).

First, I don’t see a party of moderate Liberals with enough support to form government. Despite the elevation of Elizabeth Lee to leader, there’s no evidence that the Canberra Liberals are a moderate party as a whole.

Second, I see now reason to think that a bunch of independent candidates would all be likely to support on the building of a new football stadium, or to agree on design and location. Who are the prominent local advocates on the issue who’ll put their hands up and not only run, but win?

Again, I admit that it’s not a huge issue for me, so maybe there’s a lot going on behind the scenes that only the most passionate, hateful football fans know about, but I’m not seeing it.

Charles Godworth correction: they hate sport unless it’s AFL

Charles Godworth unless it’s the GWS Giants, which apparently is more of a Canberra team than Canberra teams.

Ben Jones sport isn’t their thing. Never has been never will.

Matt Jorgensen That’s the issue isn’t it? There narrow view because it wouldn’t simply be for sport.

Daniel Oyston it could be used for concerts as well. Marvel stadium in Melbourne is used for university graduation ceremonies as well as for concerts and sporting events. As you say too narrow a view on what it can be used for from the local council.

Joanne Clark neither.

Jäy El Hopefully voters will also consider the Bruce stadium redevelopment debacle that culminated in the resignation of Kate Carnell, and shortly afterwards the end of the last Liberal government elected in the ACT. One of many reasons why voters have chosen not to put them charge again at any point this century.

Christine Stevens in the minds of most voters that’s ancient history and won’t factor into their choice at all. Most voters struggle to remember anything of note that happened 5 years ago let alone 20 plus years ago.

Christine Stevens 22…. TWENTY …. TWO years ago, a lot of voters weren’t even alive then.

Shall we also judge you on errors and wrongs you made 22 years ago?? No. I have no doubt, like the rest of us, that you’re a better person now.

Same goes with life, and some political parties.

We seriously need to move on in this territory, have constant CHANGING government, both liberal, labor/greens, independents, so that people, governments and their policies and behaviour are accountable.

I’m central, but I know we need change. New ideas, more accountability, less ego, less arrogance and more listening to the people. Don’t you think?

Do you REALLY want Barr and this flagging, old, corruptible and non-progressive government to be in power for 26 years while the ACT continues to languish?

Btw… I didn’t say liberal. Just a change to ANY party will do.

Jäy El if Australian political history is anything to go by, any party in power gets to the point where they grow complacent and stop listening to people as they believe they have a mandate to do what they want. Sadly the ACT is full of people who are happy with status quo, even though it is evident the government are making decisions for the minority and the majority.

Jäy El I think it’s possible to make decisions based on knowledge of things that happened before they were born. Those who fail to learn from history and all that.

I think new ideas, more accountability, less ego, less arrogance and more listening to the people would all be great. I don’t believe voting for ANYBODY not currently in government is likely to achieve those goals.

I’ll wait to see who’s actually on the ballot, and what their stated priorities and policies might be, but if the previous election is anything to go by, there will be plenty of candidates outside the three major parties that I wouldn’t want to see anywhere near government. Or holding the balance of power. There were at least a dozen minor parties and another half dozen “ungrouped” candidates on the last ballot, including some that got very few votes. And for good reason.

Bring them home!

Best site is in Pialligo – flatish land near rail in Kingston, extended light rail, the airport, and a road to Sydney. Also not too close to heaps of homes, offices and parks.

George Baxter Ferguson Hundreds of thousands of Canberran citizens? It seems most of them can find better things to do than go to watch Raiders or Brumbies games.

As for claims that the government spending hundreds of millions of dollars will benefit scores of local businesses, it might be nice to see evidence for that before spending the money. If those local businesses are struggling, and the Canberra community feels they should get government assistance, it would almost certainly be better value for taxpayers to just have the government give money to those businesses directly.

Christine Stevens I think ” better things to do” is extremely judgemental.

Kytie Mclign Ummm, that is terrible! A stadium needs a proper precinct – restaurants, hotels, entertainment etc. It is literally the biggest issue with Bruce. Pialliago would be the same as Bruce – we go, we leave.

Christine Stevens as you might expect I personally haven’t commissioned a study into the positive impact building a CBD base stadium would have on the local economy. It does however stand to reason that a stadium built in the city where there are already scores of established business would be beneficial to these businesses through increase trade during the 30+ game days that the Raiders, Brumbies and a A-League side (Canberra has already been listed as the preferred location for expansion) would play. This is in addition to concert and other live entertainment content that we currently can’t attract due to our woefully inadequate venue infrastructure. A stadium at any other location (other than Southwell Park) will have no benefit to other local businesses, meaning less tax revenue for the government and a longer timeframe to recoup the costs of the infrastructure investment.

Daniel Oyston Not at all. Pialligo is actually a live option, with some facilities there, space for more, and access aplenty. Bear in mind that the major central stadia in Australia have roots on their current sites dating back a century or more. Besides, there is no space for a “proper precinct” at the pool in Civic.

Margaret Freemantle I guess it is, in the sense that each individual judges for themselves how best to spend their time and money, and the vast majority of Canberrans choose to do other things besides go watch football matches at GIO Stadium.

George Baxter Ferguson Cool story, but when people have actually done those types of studies, they’ve found that claims of economic benefits to the local economy often turn out not to be the case.

It stands to reason that if someone decides not to go to the football, they don’t put the money they would’ve spent into a Somebody I Might Go To The Football fund. They spend it on something else. Very often providing the same benefit to the local economy.

30 game days a year. Plus a few concerts. That’s still a LOT of days and nights any new stadium will be sitting empty, costing taxpayers money while providing no benefit.

This article does a good job of explaining why that’s so often the case.

https://tasmaniantimes.com/2023/10/new-stadiums-are-not-an-economic-boon-analysts-concur/

Christine Stevens you hate the footy and the bogans that go to it. Own it proudly, don’t walk it back now 😉

James Surtan I don’t have anything to walk back, because that’s not something I’ve ever said.

I don’t hate the footy. I dislike the footy. More specifically, I dislike the many harms (racism, misogyny, violence, etc.) that have long been associated with the sport. But since so much of that is baked into our culture more generally, I didn’t really think it was fair to single out football. That’s changed as more evidence has emerged about the horrific long-term damage caused by concussions and subconcussive injuries.

I wasn’t aware that going to watch football matches was only something for “bogans”, but I don’t hate them, either. And anyone who says that I do is a liar.

Kytie Mclign ummm there’s a whole city full or restaurants and hotels and pubs etc within about 1-2 kms of the pool. You know, like within easy walking distance and with an existing transport hub! Like, all the things Pialligo is not.

Christine Stevens you are right, the Government shouldn’t help stimulate an economy. They have far more important things to do.

Daniel Oyston Governments spending hundreds of millions to billions of dollars on football stadia that sit empty costing more money most days of the year doesn’t stimulate the economy.

Christine Stevens try going to Townsville, see the Stadium in the city centre, note the crowds from the surrounding area and tell me it doesn’t help the economy- it most certainly does! A quality stadium enhances game day experience for those that enjoy football.

Margaret Freemantle How does it help the economy? Are you seriously suggesting that if there were no new stadium in Townsville, the people in those crowds wouldn’t still spend money? What did they do with their before the stadium was built? If there were no new stadium, they’d do other things, go other places, and still spend the money.

Encouraging people to spend in one location instead of another isn’t stimulating the economy. It’s favouring businesses in one location over businesses in others.

Daniel Oyston Missing the point much.

Christine Stevens that is absolute nonsense and you are out of touch with reality!!
It is a big event to go to a stadium. They don’t go to the Opera instead and nothing matches a game day experience that people have saved for.

As I said, out of touch…

Kytie Mclign Correct, you are.

Daniel Oyston Have you been to Bruce lately?

Onelia Herriot No, that’s the point!

Daniel Oyston The area around Bruce has changed a lot over the last few years. There is even restaurants in the area now.

Chris Olsen There is millions about to be spent on it. The federal government have realised it is a whole of Australia asset and need to chip in to help maintain it. This is instead of thinking it is an ACT asset so ACT should fund all maintenance.