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Will Rates Triple?

Jazz 12 October 2012 55

rates hikes
By now anyone who has been paying attention to the key campaign issues for next weeks election will have noticed that the Liberals campaign is very heavily pushing the fiscal argument that under a labor government that ACT rates will triple as a result of the abolition of stamp duty. Its hard to miss Zed’s trailers parked along key arterial roads around Canberra reinforcing the point.

It’s a claim that the incumbent labor government says is an out at out lie, and has both parties attempting to find credible endoresments (whilst simultaneously discrediting the oppositions. Fliers for RealZed.com which have been dropped in more than a few letterboxes is in my opinion, a particularly sensationalist approach with lots of large bold and highlighted lettering for Labor’s position in case you couldn’t work it out yourself..

Its fair to say that in time, rates will indeed triple. but is this the ACT Liberals sensationalising the issue as well? After all, the election promises of extra spending on this, that and the other thing need to be funded by someone.

[update 12/10] Just to ad some extra fun to the mix. the Liberals are now accusing Labor of hypocrisy with some land rates having increased by up to 300% or more in the last 11 years of labor leadership. But thats ok, because they were focussed on tax reform.

And not to be outdone, Senator Gaz has his own views – not surprisingly supporting the liberals assesment.


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55 Responses to Will Rates Triple?
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birder birder 11:05 am 17 Oct 12

Getting rid of stamp duty is a fantastic idea. I sincerely hope the Labor party wins.

NoImRight NoImRight 11:00 am 17 Oct 12

Masquara said :

Speaking of calculations – Andrew Barr hasn’t gone into specifics about just what interest rate they plan to charge ratepayers who will be allowed to put their increased rates on the never-never, and have their estate pay after death. Most of us are expecting an inheritance from our parents. Assuming that Andrew Barr and Katie Gallagher plan to extract credit card level interest from their debtors (which I believe the ATO does), many, many Canberrans will get an upleasant surprise when they discover that 18 per cent cumulative interest on those rates bills has chewed up a high proportion of that inheritance. And the smaller the estate, the worse the damage. The debt may well double every three years. So, if a person whose rates for their $600,000 house are currently $40 a week has to put the – let’s say doubling – on the never-never, their unfortunate children will have found that while the value of the house has doubled every seven years, the debt may well have doubled every 3 years. So after little more than a decade the cumulative rates bill will have blown out to something like $80,000. What was that about saving $17,000 in stamp duty every ten or so years under Labor?

I imagine all this conjecture and speculation is in your leaflets as well?

HenryBG HenryBG 9:46 am 17 Oct 12

bundah said :

HenryBG said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

MissChief said :

I for one can’t afford to pay triple the rates just to subsidise the abolition of stamp duty. And it doesn’t seem fair in any case.

The argument here that no one will notice a tripling in rates because wages will be kicking along with inflation is also flawed. A tripling of something is a 300% increase while inflation is running at a little over 3%. At that rate, it will take your wages 100 years to catch up. People are going to notice.

Maths fail.

If the ALP just released the maths, people wouldn’t be having to use whatever limited skills and knowledge were available to them to guess.

MissChief’s maths fail is the ALP’s fault. They are banking on ignorance and confusion getting them over the line.

No,the maths fail is merely a reflection of Miss Chief’s failure to comprehend algebra .One can’t blame Labor for everything as much as one would like to!

Did MissChief go to a public school? Maybe we *can* blame the ALP for her maths fail?

davo101 davo101 9:44 am 17 Oct 12

Masquara said :

Speaking of calculations – Andrew Barr hasn’t gone into specifics about just what interest rate they plan to charge ratepayers who will be allowed to put their increased rates on the never-never

So Section 7 of the Rates Act 2004 is not good enough for you?

Masquara said :

Assuming that Andrew Barr and Katie Gallagher plan to extract credit card level interest from their debtors

Here’s an idea–instead of assuming why don’t you do a little research first? Say by looking at Section 26 of the Tax Administration Act where you’ll find that the interest rate applied to deferred rates is the 90 day Bank Bill rate (currently about 3.5%). Given that the Territory will have to borrow the money to cover the rates you don’t pay at about the same rate I don’t think you’ll find that it is too unreasonable to expect you to cover the cost of putting off your rates.

colourful sydney racing identity colourful sydney racing identity 8:44 am 17 Oct 12

Matt_Watts said :

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Core and non-core promises were the result of Labor fraud, along with the need for a fresh mandate for a broad-based tax (ie GST).

It’s not my fault I lied! THOSE COMMUNISTS made me do it, Mummy!

Who made him lie about his lie? Can’t have been Labor – they’d been out on their arses for two years. April 1998:

“I went to the 1996 election saying there would not be a GST in our first term. I go to the coming election saying we are going to reform the tax system. The Australian public are entitled to be told before an election what a government will do after the election. They do not deserve to be misled. They do not deserve to be deceived.”

Misleading and deceiving people in a statement about not misleading and deceiving people. Silly me – I should have realised ‘liberal’ meant ‘with the truth’.

Whatever you reckon mate. Going for a fresh mandate is a helluva lot more honorable than the alternative.

It should be noted that Howard actually lost the popular vote in the pre GST election – the Lib/Nats won the most seats though, which is obviously the thing that matters.

Matt_Watts Matt_Watts 11:33 pm 16 Oct 12

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Core and non-core promises were the result of Labor fraud, along with the need for a fresh mandate for a broad-based tax (ie GST).

It’s not my fault I lied! THOSE COMMUNISTS made me do it, Mummy!

Who made him lie about his lie? Can’t have been Labor – they’d been out on their arses for two years. April 1998:

“I went to the 1996 election saying there would not be a GST in our first term. I go to the coming election saying we are going to reform the tax system. The Australian public are entitled to be told before an election what a government will do after the election. They do not deserve to be misled. They do not deserve to be deceived.”

Misleading and deceiving people in a statement about not misleading and deceiving people. Silly me – I should have realised ‘liberal’ meant ‘with the truth’.

Whatever you reckon mate. Going for a fresh mandate is a helluva lot more honorable than the alternative.

Woody Mann-Caruso Woody Mann-Caruso 8:09 pm 16 Oct 12

Core and non-core promises were the result of Labor fraud, along with the need for a fresh mandate for a broad-based tax (ie GST).

It’s not my fault I lied! THOSE COMMUNISTS made me do it, Mummy!

Who made him lie about his lie? Can’t have been Labor – they’d been out on their arses for two years. April 1998:

“I went to the 1996 election saying there would not be a GST in our first term. I go to the coming election saying we are going to reform the tax system. The Australian public are entitled to be told before an election what a government will do after the election. They do not deserve to be misled. They do not deserve to be deceived.”

Misleading and deceiving people in a statement about not misleading and deceiving people. Silly me – I should have realised ‘liberal’ meant ‘with the truth’.

Masquara Masquara 6:31 pm 16 Oct 12

Speaking of calculations – Andrew Barr hasn’t gone into specifics about just what interest rate they plan to charge ratepayers who will be allowed to put their increased rates on the never-never, and have their estate pay after death. Most of us are expecting an inheritance from our parents. Assuming that Andrew Barr and Katie Gallagher plan to extract credit card level interest from their debtors (which I believe the ATO does), many, many Canberrans will get an upleasant surprise when they discover that 18 per cent cumulative interest on those rates bills has chewed up a high proportion of that inheritance. And the smaller the estate, the worse the damage. The debt may well double every three years. So, if a person whose rates for their $600,000 house are currently $40 a week has to put the – let’s say doubling – on the never-never, their unfortunate children will have found that while the value of the house has doubled every seven years, the debt may well have doubled every 3 years. So after little more than a decade the cumulative rates bill will have blown out to something like $80,000. What was that about saving $17,000 in stamp duty every ten or so years under Labor?

watto23 watto23 4:34 pm 16 Oct 12

colourful sydney racing identity said :

Assuming wages growth of ~3 per cent per annum, wages triple in less than 40 years.

Another mistake that hack makes is that people do not spend 100 per cent of their wages on rates.

Yet another mistake is believing the Liberal party misuse and misrepresentation of the report.

+1, look rates will be going up and Labor haven’t denied it. So why should they take the blame for a policy they are open about, yet the opposition are using as a scare campaign. Last I heard the process of replacing stamp duty with rates was going to take 20 years. So tripled rates over twenty years actually sounds like we are getting a bargain.

Stamp duty is inefficient. It relies on the buying and selling of property. If not enough buying and selling is done then the government doesn’t earn enough money to pay for services. Rates are much easier to manage and budget with.

So how is it fair that someone who needs/wants to move into a bigger/smaller house for example pay for services via stamp duty that those who are living in canberra are using yet don’t need/want to move houses????

colourful sydney racing identity colourful sydney racing identity 3:26 pm 16 Oct 12

Assuming wages growth of ~3 per cent per annum, wages triple in less than 40 years.

Another mistake that hack makes is that people do not spend 100 per cent of their wages on rates.

Yet another mistake is believing the Liberal party misuse and misrepresentation of the report.

bundah bundah 3:00 pm 16 Oct 12

HenryBG said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

MissChief said :

I for one can’t afford to pay triple the rates just to subsidise the abolition of stamp duty. And it doesn’t seem fair in any case.

The argument here that no one will notice a tripling in rates because wages will be kicking along with inflation is also flawed. A tripling of something is a 300% increase while inflation is running at a little over 3%. At that rate, it will take your wages 100 years to catch up. People are going to notice.

Maths fail.

If the ALP just released the maths, people wouldn’t be having to use whatever limited skills and knowledge were available to them to guess.

MissChief’s maths fail is the ALP’s fault. They are banking on ignorance and confusion getting them over the line.

No,the maths fail is merely a reflection of Miss Chief’s failure to comprehend algebra .One can’t blame Labor for everything as much as one would like to!

HenryBG HenryBG 2:46 pm 16 Oct 12

colourful sydney racing identity said :

MissChief said :

I for one can’t afford to pay triple the rates just to subsidise the abolition of stamp duty. And it doesn’t seem fair in any case.

The argument here that no one will notice a tripling in rates because wages will be kicking along with inflation is also flawed. A tripling of something is a 300% increase while inflation is running at a little over 3%. At that rate, it will take your wages 100 years to catch up. People are going to notice.

Maths fail.

If the ALP just released the maths, people wouldn’t be having to use whatever limited skills and knowledge were available to them to guess.

MissChief’s maths fail is the ALP’s fault. They are banking on ignorance and confusion getting them over the line.

colourful sydney racing identity colourful sydney racing identity 2:03 pm 16 Oct 12

MissChief said :

I for one can’t afford to pay triple the rates just to subsidise the abolition of stamp duty. And it doesn’t seem fair in any case.

The argument here that no one will notice a tripling in rates because wages will be kicking along with inflation is also flawed. A tripling of something is a 300% increase while inflation is running at a little over 3%. At that rate, it will take your wages 100 years to catch up. People are going to notice.

Maths fail.

MissChief MissChief 1:43 pm 16 Oct 12

I for one can’t afford to pay triple the rates just to subsidise the abolition of stamp duty. And it doesn’t seem fair in any case.

The argument here that no one will notice a tripling in rates because wages will be kicking along with inflation is also flawed. A tripling of something is a 300% increase while inflation is running at a little over 3%. At that rate, it will take your wages 100 years to catch up. People are going to notice.

colourful sydney racing identity colourful sydney racing identity 12:17 pm 16 Oct 12

Matt_Watts said :

NoImRight said :

Matt_Watts said :

housebound said :

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Can you imagine John Howard trying to bring in the GST without explaining it during the 1998 election? He fought for it and explained it.

What, this John Howard? Your claim to integrity is that you’re like this guy? You’re referring to this guy, and then asking others to be honest? Seriously?

“Suggestions I have left open the possibility of a GST are completely wrong. A GST or anything resembling it is no longer Coalition policy. Nor will it be policy at any time in the future. It is completely off the political agenda in Australia.”

Later that day:

“Have you left the door open for a GST?”
“No. There’s no way a GST will ever be part of our policy.”
“Never ever?”
“Never ever. It’s dead. It was killed by voters at the last election.”

But then there was a new election and he got in – doing the very thing that killed off Hewson’s campaign less than a decade earlier.

The more dishonest thing would be to say, just before or during a campaign that something would or wouldn’t happen, and then do the opposite.

There are a lot of them from both sides of politics (e.g. Keating’s LAW tax cuts and Howard’s core and non-core promises). GST isn’t one of those examples because it was part of an election campaign.

From an election promise point of view, if anything failed there it was the Democrats in letting the GST through when they had the power to block it.

We shouldn’t forget the fact the then Labor govt was informing the public that the budget was in surplus. Tough decisions will need to be made from time to time… Core and non-core promises were the result of Labor fraud, along with the need for a fresh mandate for a broad-based tax (ie GST).

I can only hope this current ALP government has been truthful, although the lack of a substantive response to the significant rates increase doesn’t fill me with optimism.

“Core and non-core promises were the result of Labor fraud,”

You say what now?

The wole 1996 election campaign, Labor was claiming the budget was in surplus. We now know it was really in deficit.

If we knew the true state of the budget beforehand, theLibs wouldn’t have had to make tough decisions about which promises to break. It would have been irresponsible to keep every promise in the face of such a huge deficit.

Precisely the same thing that happenned when Labor was elected in 1983 – the Fraser government, featuring Treasurer John Howard had been less than honest about the amount of money in the cookie jar.

NoImRight NoImRight 11:43 am 16 Oct 12

History is written by the victors I guess. Quite the tradition by both sides to blame the previous Government for the first few years.

Matt_Watts Matt_Watts 10:23 am 16 Oct 12

NoImRight said :

Matt_Watts said :

housebound said :

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Can you imagine John Howard trying to bring in the GST without explaining it during the 1998 election? He fought for it and explained it.

What, this John Howard? Your claim to integrity is that you’re like this guy? You’re referring to this guy, and then asking others to be honest? Seriously?

“Suggestions I have left open the possibility of a GST are completely wrong. A GST or anything resembling it is no longer Coalition policy. Nor will it be policy at any time in the future. It is completely off the political agenda in Australia.”

Later that day:

“Have you left the door open for a GST?”
“No. There’s no way a GST will ever be part of our policy.”
“Never ever?”
“Never ever. It’s dead. It was killed by voters at the last election.”

But then there was a new election and he got in – doing the very thing that killed off Hewson’s campaign less than a decade earlier.

The more dishonest thing would be to say, just before or during a campaign that something would or wouldn’t happen, and then do the opposite.

There are a lot of them from both sides of politics (e.g. Keating’s LAW tax cuts and Howard’s core and non-core promises). GST isn’t one of those examples because it was part of an election campaign.

From an election promise point of view, if anything failed there it was the Democrats in letting the GST through when they had the power to block it.

We shouldn’t forget the fact the then Labor govt was informing the public that the budget was in surplus. Tough decisions will need to be made from time to time… Core and non-core promises were the result of Labor fraud, along with the need for a fresh mandate for a broad-based tax (ie GST).

I can only hope this current ALP government has been truthful, although the lack of a substantive response to the significant rates increase doesn’t fill me with optimism.

“Core and non-core promises were the result of Labor fraud,”

You say what now?

The wole 1996 election campaign, Labor was claiming the budget was in surplus. We now know it was really in deficit. If we knew the true state of the budget beforehand, theLibs wouldn’t have had to make tough decisions about which promises to break. It would have been irresponsible to keep every promise in the face of such a huge deficit.

NoImRight NoImRight 9:45 am 16 Oct 12

Matt_Watts said :

housebound said :

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Can you imagine John Howard trying to bring in the GST without explaining it during the 1998 election? He fought for it and explained it.

What, this John Howard? Your claim to integrity is that you’re like this guy? You’re referring to this guy, and then asking others to be honest? Seriously?

“Suggestions I have left open the possibility of a GST are completely wrong. A GST or anything resembling it is no longer Coalition policy. Nor will it be policy at any time in the future. It is completely off the political agenda in Australia.”

Later that day:

“Have you left the door open for a GST?”
“No. There’s no way a GST will ever be part of our policy.”
“Never ever?”
“Never ever. It’s dead. It was killed by voters at the last election.”

But then there was a new election and he got in – doing the very thing that killed off Hewson’s campaign less than a decade earlier.

The more dishonest thing would be to say, just before or during a campaign that something would or wouldn’t happen, and then do the opposite.

There are a lot of them from both sides of politics (e.g. Keating’s LAW tax cuts and Howard’s core and non-core promises). GST isn’t one of those examples because it was part of an election campaign.

From an election promise point of view, if anything failed there it was the Democrats in letting the GST through when they had the power to block it.

We shouldn’t forget the fact the then Labor govt was informing the public that the budget was in surplus. Tough decisions will need to be made from time to time… Core and non-core promises were the result of Labor fraud, along with the need for a fresh mandate for a broad-based tax (ie GST).

I can only hope this current ALP government has been truthful, although the lack of a substantive response to the significant rates increase doesn’t fill me with optimism.

“Core and non-core promises were the result of Labor fraud,”

You say what now?

colourful sydney racing identity colourful sydney racing identity 8:31 am 16 Oct 12

Masquara said :

Following Zed’s measured response to this non-issue, Katie has pulled her head in. Perhaps she had the opportunity to listen to her first, histrionic interview. Perhaps she realised that the cloying “Tim & Katie, a Romance That Never Was” feature on ABC TV had made her identify with Nicole Kidman and she put three LIberal supporters following her through Greenway in a Corona, in her celeb delusion, on the same plane as those paparazzi chasing Nicole at high speed through the winding streets of Chatswood.

*yawn* Wouldn’t your time be better spent door knocking?

Masquara Masquara 8:15 am 16 Oct 12

Following Zed’s measured response to this non-issue, Katie has pulled her head in. Perhaps she had the opportunity to listen to her first, histrionic interview. Perhaps she realised that the cloying “Tim & Katie, a Romance That Never Was” feature on ABC TV had made her identify with Nicole Kidman and she put three LIberal supporters following her through Greenway in a Corona, in her celeb delusion, on the same plane as those paparazzi chasing Nicole at high speed through the winding streets of Chatswood.

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