Homebirth Rally - how it all went

i don’t think, i-filed, the prospect – even near ubiquity – of beautiful [low stress] birth experiences in hospital is at question, nor is home birth only possible in a [perhaps misguided] hippy tree-hugging kind of context (nor denying that even this choice is fraught with possibility of disappointment), rather that the choice to pursue the path the parents deem to be their choice is a real choice open to them if that’s what they want.

(and this from an expectant father looking forward, very soon, to the excellent facilities he has seen at qbyn maternity…)

i just still wanna know where emd took three thousand midwives out to dinner the night before! ; )

I don’t have a problem with home birth in principle, or with there being an argument and a solution needed about indemnity – but it worries me that the focus of the politicised home birth movement is all on the birth and not the baby. Hospital birth can be low-stress – it’s the warmth and personalities of the birthing team that counts over and above every other consideration. A friend of mine had a horrendous “hippy, alternative” home birth (in another state). Passive-aggressive midwife, husband who couldn’t cope. Australians should keep in mind that much of the anti-hospital-birth movement arose from the dreadful, alienating American practices (swathing the mother in green drapes etc). Those practices never happened here. In Australia, along with excellent traditional breastfeeding practices, hospital births have been quite civilised compared to the US, all along. So I question whether there was ever much of a need for a home birth “movement” here in Australia.

there is of course a more pressing issue, emd, which to date you have singularly failed to address – where did you all go out to dinner?? ; )

Qbn Gal said :

There is a Birth Centre planned for the new Women and Children’s Hospital with two more rooms. However as I understand it, the BC will be on the 3rd Floor just down the corridor from the Delivery Suite because the ground floor will be for Paediatrics ( to give them access to the outside courtyards).

Last year the rumour was that the new hospital would deliver no new maternity beds – but a lot more office space. Even worse, the rumour was that ‘normal’ births (not just those in the birthing centre) would have to leave within 24 hours, and c-sections would get an overnight stay at most. I really hope the rumour is wrong.

No couldn’t be emd.
I was there and personally counted every person.
There was only 2654 people present.
You should put your faith in my accurate count.

Update: Australian Federal Police official estimate of rally attendees was 3,000. Much better than the “over 2,000” that ABC reported (and I’d put more faith in the AFP count than ABC’s guess).

sb14 said :

Feathergirl – I think we all realise we want the same thing – better choice for birthing mothers, we just don’t necessarily agree on where that is best delivered.

Actually, I’m not sure that there is agreement here. Where maternity services are delivered is the crux of what homebirth advocates really want – at home. Better choice for them cannot be delivered in any form of hospital environment, because they don’t want to go there. Full stop. It is their choice, and their right, to not go to hospital. So let’s not make it worse by making it illegal for a midwife to attend the birth outside the hospital setting. It will cost taxpayers less, and the NZ model and the CMAJ study published recently show that there are fewer incidents of death or permanent injury and much less medical intervention involved.

What we need is a range of models of care so that people can go with what works best for them, rather than trying to change their needs to fit what’s on offer. Having nice rooms in the new WCH with continuity of carer is nice, but we’ll still need a birth centre with a natural birth philosophy for those women who want that choice. Hospital birth with caseload midwifery (and I’m not sure that the new WCH maternity ward is going to offer caseload, but that’s what many women want) doesn’t equate with a complete natural birth philosophy.

sepi – I iamagine contacting the birth centre and asking in what way you could help would be most productive.

astrojax – its a sad reality that legal issues are a big part of medical practice these days. Thats not the fault of the medical profession, it was thrust upon them by a litigious society. I suspect as soon as a mother or baby runs into any sort of trouble, the push would be to do the “safest” thing and move to a caesarian. A doctor that tries to “ride it out” with bad outcome to either mum or bub would most likely get torn to shreds by a decent lawyer.

Feathergirl – I think we all realise we want the same thing – better choice for birthing mothers, we just don’t necessarily agree on where that is best delivered.

GnT – you’ve hit the nail on the head. I once remarked to a midwife in the “normal hospital system” how beautiful the rooms in the birth centre are, and what a great environment they are for families. Her reply was that she didn’t understand why those sort of facilities weren’t available to all women. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity. We are building a new hospital – a new model of care with world leading facilities can be created if there is enough ground swell.

To all the expecting mums and dads – here’s wishing you an awesome experience and a happy, healthy bub – regardless of where they are born.

There is a Birth Centre planned for the new Women and Children’s Hospital with two more rooms. However as I understand it, the BC will be on the 3rd Floor just down the corridor from the Delivery Suite because the ground floor will be for Paediatrics ( to give them access to the outside courtyards).

It takes a special kind of midwife to be prepared to be on call 24/7 as the girls at the BC are, and we should give them all the support we can. I am grateful to them for the wonderful service they have given me and we should let the government know what we think of this necessary option for birthing.

The problem with the birth centre is not just that it’s hard to get in. They won’t touch higher risk births, so some women have no choice but to give birth in hospital. Things that the birth centre offers, in particular continuity of care by a midwife you know and trust, and a comfortable ‘home-like’ environment, should be offered through the normal hospital system to all birthing women.

Isn’t it funny how people complain if the government tried to play Nanny State in school curriculum or passing laws about child discipline (as happened in NZ), but when women want to pay from their own pocket for a private midwife (just as they would for a private obstetrician) to attend a homebirth there’s all this outrage that women would want to make such a choice?

For anyone interested in Friends of the Birth Centre, you can sign up for their free monthly email newsletter here: fbc.canberra@gmail.com
FBC are in consultation with TCH’s project managers about the facilities that will be included in the new birth centre rooms as part of the new Women’s & Children’s Hospital maternity unit. By joining up for the newsletter, you’ll hear about opportunities to participate in the process, and where the project is up to.

My goodness everyone is being so nice to each other! Even the people who disagree… sorry just feels a bit odd for Riotact. Usually these sort of articles have trolls & nutbags galore stirring the pot.

Congrats to all who attended the rally, I hope we all have the choice of home births in the future.

I do have a funny home birth story though – if squeemish do not read – a friend’s wife had her baby at home and all went well. They placed the placenta on a plate on the kitchen table to be buried under a tree later on. Unfortunately their dog thought, ‘mmm, yummmy!’ jumped up and ate the placenta.

Thanks sb14, I think in certain respects we’re in furious agreement with each other.

; )

and to rougelette, congratulations. to mwf, saddest commiserations.

but something else sb14 said: I suspect medicolegal reasons and maternal expectations play a large role in escalating rates.

it seems that the legal, and insurance, issues are dominating and commanding what should be the choice of the parents, esp the woman, in the birth experience (and many other aspects of our lives, for that matter) and i understand the rally to have been an outcry agains this, to allow individuals a real choice in what happens to them, not have the boundaries of that choice constrained by some arbitrary principles guided by again arbitrary statistics.

this is what we need to tell the nation’s leaders, isn’t it?

Birth centres are better, but they’re still not home.

Why is it so hard to accept that the female of a species may be more comfortable birthing in her own territory and may not wish to be moved in the throes of giving birth?

EMD – what is happening with the birth centre?

I’m sure it is fabulous – everyone says so, but not much good for the thousands of women who can’t get into it due to the enormous waiting lists. AND is any space being allowed for it in the new women’s hospital. Last I heard it was ‘not on the plans’.

Outside of the birthing centre, you are ‘assisted’ to give birth by whichever random midwife is on duty that night, and some of them are shockers. Also, they basically leave you alone most of the time – which is fine for some people, but their birthing classes indicate that they will be there holding your hand the entire time, which could not be further from the truth. And they try to make you go home if they are busy – which is a dangerous policy, and traumatic for the people it happens to.

I feel you get treated far better in hospital for stuff like getting ingrown toenails fixed than for having a baby – such a shame when it is such a momentous event in our lives.

I am still bitter about the treatment I got over 3 years ago, and I felt the there must be a better way of doing things, and yet I still couldn’t access the birth centre second time around.

Deejay – I am so sorry about the ‘treatment’ you received. Some people should just not work as midwives.

MWF 🙁

sb14 – should we be writing letters of support for the birth centre or something – what can we actually do?

sb14 said :

We have the chance to be national leaders in this respect.

Thanks sb14, I think in certain respects we’re in furious agreement with each other.

Canberra certainly appears to have much better facilities than the rest of Australia (I gotta say that the birth centre is particularly awesome) and is leading some very good trends in birth technique.

Birth centre= home-like environment.

I may not want a home-like environment, but MY home environment. The one I know and love and to be supported by a medically qualified midwife. I wouldn’t mind being tranfered, before or during my labour, to a hospital if it were neccessary but I wouldn’t be comfortable. I know that motherhood insticts are a powerful human tool and I also know if I wasn’t comfortable I could not respond to those insticts. If a woman is comfortable in a hospital and believes she can get the best care possible for her and her baby than that is great. If a woman is comfortable at home with a midwife who knows what she is doing that is great too.

“…..a sterile and unfriendly grey room containing a group of strangers, many of whom are more interested in using drugs, medicalising everything and hurrying everything up as much as possible so that they can get to whatever else it is that they need to be doing, regardless of your plans and desires…”

Bloody hell: were you giving birth in the ACT Legislative Assembly!

sb14 said :

Group B Strep kills babies within minute to hours. There may be little to indicate during the delivery that the baby is at risk. Babies with fetal distress may have only moments to be born to avert catastrophe. I do not mean to sound arrogant, but I have seen this first hand, and this is why I believe a hospital is the safest place for a baby to be born.

Although I advocated and wanted a home-birth I chickened out and had one of my babies in a hospital – I wanted the security of “the machine that goes PING!”. Made no difference. Low risk pregnancy, low risk mother – the baby still died. NO risk factors, no prematurity, “normal” ultrasound reports and a great big machine that goes PING! etc.

I support every mother’s right to choose where to give birth.

Jim, this is obviously a topic you have researched well, which is fantastic. It is the actions of people like you that ultimately lead to changes for the better in dogma of institutions.

I was not trying to curry favour. I took your post as a swipe at my professional integrity and was defending myself. I had just finished a night shift and may have misinterpreted this, so forgive me.

I have spent a lot of time speaking to midwives in both the community midwife program and the birth suite. Midwives in the CMP are universally glowing about their program and about home birth. This does not mean I don’t have concerns about its safety though. Midwives in birth suite often acknowledge that the set-up is less than ideal, and wish that the design could be more family friendly.

I’m not in obstetrics, so I can’t really comment on the rates of caesars and epidurals. I have at times, however, wondered if a caesar was absolutely necessary, though I doubt it would be performed with absolutely no reason. I suspect medicolegal reasons and maternal expectations play a large role in escalating rates. There are two side to every story in that I’ve talked to mothers who have been through CMPs with the initial intention of no epidural, had a long painful labour, more or less begged for an epidural, and was essentially denied by the midwife. They are less than glowing about their experience.

I’m all for one-to-one midwifery care, in a comfortable room with bath and shower facilities, restricted access by other staff and minimal medical intervention unless requested by the mother, or absolutely necessary. I believe that this should be delivered in a hospital, you have other beliefs and I respect that. I promise to read your link (it is open on my screen so I don’t forget), but i am a little sleep deprived right now and consequently brain addled.

The people of Canberra currently have an excellent opportunity to make a lasting difference to how maternity care is delivered in the territory. The new Women’s and Children’s Hospital is currently undergoing preliminary design. Now is the time to stand up and let our politicians know the model of birthing facilities you desire. We have the chance to be national leaders in this respect.

I had the pleasure of giving birth at Canberra Hospital last Monday – it was an induction due to medical reasons, which most would assume would result in a labour that was full of intervention and a lack of control. This was not the case for me. I found the staff helpful and caring and they sought permission from me before bringing any additional staff into the room. The midwife was fantastic and provided me with excellent support during what turned out to be a very quick labour. The room was comfortable and I was encouraged to move around and/or shower or bath if I wished. My partner and I were very much in control (though in the end the rogueling was the one in control). Drugs were not offered until I requested them (not that I got a chance to take them). I was very happy with the whole experience.

Women (and men) should be supportive of alternative birthing methods, provided that they are safe for the child and the mother, rather than divisive – there is too much of that going on in the child rearing world already – and recognise that what is right for one may not necessarily be right for many. Home birthing should be an option, but there would need to be very strict regulation surrounding it to ensure medical attention is available if needed. As a high risk pregnancy a home birth would not have been an option for me. I personally think birthing centres are a great compromise as no matter what the initial perceived risk is, the outcome of every labour is as difficult to predict as the personality of the baby the woman is giving birth to.

Again – many thanks to the staff at Canberra Hospital – you did an excellent job!

Like a number of others, I have had a negative birth experience in hospital. The same doctor who tried to send me home at 2pm because “he’d seen women in labour and I wasn’t in labour” (and was shocked that I refused drive myself while having 3 minute contractions), sewed me up at 6pm. The nurse saw fit to tell me I had soiled myself while giving birth (I’d never have known if she hadn’t told me, it was humiliating for her to tell me given that six doctors had come to gawk at me without my permission, and I can’t imagine why she felt it necessary to tell me). I’d notified EVERYONE what medication I was on and still they managed to give me a painkiller that interacted and caused a seizure.

But still, I was lucky, because I didn’t get all PTSD about it afterwards, although I think I had every right to be traumatised after the amount of neglect and abuse I suffered. Some women do. Some women spend *years* recovering from a negative birth experience, because it is neglect and abuse suffered while naked and vulnerable, by people you trusted to look after you, who have control over your body. For some women it is like rape (although I’m sure our arrogant doctor friend will say I’m being overemotional).

I don’t think I have the guts to homebirth, but I completely understand why some women would.

sb14 said :

I acknowledge that the health care system has problems, but to accuse doctors, nurses and midwives of anything but trying to do their best for their patients, I believe is totally unfair.

I’m sorry if what I wrote was taking as implying that doctors, nurses and midwives weren’t trying to do their best for patients. This was not my intention.

However, you do have to acknowledge that the medicalisation and hospitalisation of birth procedures has generated a lot of unneccesary problems – the abundance of unneccessary c-sections, epidurals, etc. – along with this absurd notion that it is somehow irresponsible to give birth outside a hospital.

I have no doubt that you are a successful, caring doctor who makes sound clinical decisions. That has absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand, and is little more than a rhetorical play to win the audience with an argument to authority (‘look at the caring doctor who does everything because he loves people, how could he possible be wrong?)’ But good intentions are distinct from desirable outcomes, particularly in a medical setting.

These are problems that flow from viewing birth as a ‘medical problem’: something to be ‘fixed’. The current trend (as far as I’m aware) is shifting away from this, but it still very much there. As caring and involved as everyone is in a hospital, they are under pressure to move ‘patients’ through quickly and make spot decisions as to procedures. This removes agency from the ‘patient’ and often renders her little more than a medical ‘problem’ to be ‘fixed’ before moving onto the next ‘patient’. That’s the nature of the medical system, and it ain’t gonna change soon.

I’m unsurprised that a doctor thinks that birth should take place in a hospital. It might do you the world of good, however, to read what midwives and mothers have been saying about the issue. This is a good start:

http://www.joyousbirth.info/articles/medicalisation.html

“(a) a sterile and unfriendly grey room containing a group of strangers, many of whom are more interested in using drugs, medicalising everything and hurrying everything up as much as possible so that they can get to whatever else it is that they need to be doing, regardless of your plans and desires; or”

Our son was born in hospital. The room wasn’t unfriendly at all, it was quite nice. Nobody was pushing any drugs on anyone or hurrying anyone up. No strangers were there. What was there was friendly & professional assistance as well as the best in medical care should it be required…which it was….urgently.

“(b) surroundings that are familiar, reassuring, relaxed and comfortable, with an experienced midwife on hand (with whom you have developed a personal relationship) and medical backup if necessary.”

Also sounds fine. Although the time/distance to medical assistance should it be required is a bit of an issue for many.

Point is….homebirth advocate or not, try to be honest about the options & present them as they are.

I spend a large proportion of my working day informing parents and children of their condition, the pros and cons of management options and helping them make the best decision for them. When it comes to me advocating for a management decision, it is primarily with the safest decision in mind, and while patient convenience plays a large part in the ultimate decision, safety should never be compromised.

I may be arrogant, who knows. I don’t think so, and nobody has ever told me that I am. I have, however, been told by patients, doctors and nurses that I am a caring doctor who makes sound clinical decisions.

Group B Strep kills babies within minute to hours. There may be little to indicate during the delivery that the baby is at risk. Babies with fetal distress may have only moments to be born to avert catastrophe. I do not mean to sound arrogant, but I have seen this first hand, and this is why I believe a hospital is the safest place for a baby to be born.

You are entitled to your opinion, and I respect that. That does not mean I have to agree with you. Myself and my colleagues are devoted professionals, who work long difficult hours, in very stretched and stressful conditions, often with great personal and financial sacrifice. We do this because ultimately we love the job and the chance it gives us to help make a difference to peoples lives. I acknowledge that the health care system has problems, but to accuse doctors, nurses and midwives of anything but trying to do their best for their patients, I believe is totally unfair.

sb14 said :

As a doctor I find comments like these very offensive:

You can be offended by whatever you want, but it’s not going to suddenly make everyone run around saying that ‘everything is wonderful everywhere’. There are aspects of hospital birth that are highly problematic in the past, continue to be problematic in the present, but will hopefully improve.

Stamping your foot and depending respect for doctors because ‘I know more than any of you’ does little but paint you as an arrogant so-and-so with little respect for the opinions of others (including, presumably, those who choose to have birth somewhere else).

sb14 said :

Why don’t you focus your efforts on improving birth centre facilities and staffing arrangements in a setting that is safe for both mother and child.

How do you presume to know what I have and have not done?

sb14 said :

How dare you suggest that myself, my colleagues (midwifery and nursing staff included), have anything but the welfare of our patients, in this case the mother and child, at heart.

Once again, the arrogant assumption that only you are fit to decide what’s best for the welfare of our patients (regardless of what the ‘patient’ actually wants). Go be outraged and offended somewhere else, I really don’t care about it.

sepi said :

the birthcentre (homelike atmosphere, midwife attended, attached to a hospital) does sound like a great solution for many women – unfortuately most women don’t have this option.

the canberra birthcentre is so overbooked you have to book in within a fortnight of getting prgnant, and is in danger of being abolished anyway.

Sounds good, I have no problems with these limintaionions at all. Abort if you want, I really don’t care. If you decide to have a kid I demand you spend every single moment thinking about what’s best for them, not you. It is important to spend the rest of your days doing whatever is possible to keep them as safe as you can.

Self-indulgent risk taking is not a great start

Thanks, GnT!

: )

The rally was a wonderful experience.

I had four hospital births before I chose to have my homebirth. My last child was born in a hospital – my choice. I love homebirth. There have been valid reasons for the choices I have made in each case, which I won’t bore you with. Suffice it to say that there is much that the medical profession can and must learn from independent midwives on the subject of birth.

I am not a stupid person, and I believe I should have as much right to make this decision as I do in relation to any other choice involving a medical procedure for myself or my children. I am not trying to force my choices onto anyone else.

What’s right for me may not be right for somebody else.

If a woman feels safe and secure in a hospital then that’s where she should be. If something goes wrong then she will need help. Nobody is arguing that, and nobody is more aware of this than the mothers and midwives themselves. The outcome of a healthy, happy mother and baby is what everyone is trying to achieve.

cheers, gnt, and no, i certainly didn’t intend that reading of my comments – i was speaking in a much broader acculturation sense. your situation was quite natural in its occurrence and indeed requires intervention…

and more cheers in agreeance to emd, granny et al at the rally!

Not everyone involved in homebirth advocacy is a nutcase. I am the ACT Branch President of Maternity Coalition, ACT representative for the Caesarean Awareness Network Australia, former convenor of Friends of the Birth Centre, and organiser of a free doula drop-in service. And I have elective caesareans with a private obstetrician.

My choice is made for medical reasons, but it is still my choice. It is also publicly funded, and granted to me without need for debate. If my choice is legal, why not the home birth choice for women who are having a normal pregnancy? Every woman has her own life experience and physiology affecting her pregnancy, and every baby is a person in its own right. This means birth choices should be made based on the individual circumstances involved, should be made by the woman with full information provided to her on all her options, and we should not be trying to direct all women into one or two care models.

I have discussed home birth guidelines with many midwives who provide this service, and none of them will touch a high risk pregnancy. So I think we can stop talking about high risk home births – they won’t happen under the care of a qualified, professional, registered midwife. And that is what we are talking about here.

On Monday night, Senator Gary Humphries hosted the screening of Birth Rites, a documentary that contrasts the home birth model used in remote indigenous communities in Canada with the routine moving of indigenous women in the Kimberleys, WA to have their babies in city hospitals far from their support network.

the birthcentre (homelike atmosphere, midwife attended, attached to a hospital) does sound like a great solution for many women – unfortuately most women don’t have this option.

the canberra birthcentre is so overbooked you have to book in within a fortnight of getting prgnant, and is in danger of being abolished anyway.

sepi, I’m sorry to hear about your negative hospital experiences. Exactly the reason we need more choice and empowerment within the hospital system.

astrojax, I guess what bothered me was the implication that my emergency situation (which, by the way, was retained placenta and post partum haemorrhage) was caused by fear, apprehension or misinformation, or that it might have been avoided by a home birth. You neither explicity stated this nor, I’m sure, intended this but I don’t think it’s fair to say “many of the complications of birth” are not as a result of genuine medical reasons.

I also want to say well done to emd, Granny and anyone else who attended the rally. It’s really nice to see people standing up for what they believe in and not being deterred by the weather!

Australia needs more (I believe better) birth choices that empower women. The status quo does not support safe options like home birth. We’re not talking about free birthing here, where you go it alone. Obstetricians are great and I’m bloody thankful we’ve got them (long story). But remember that obstetricians are surgeons and know comparatively little about birthing. These are the guys who know all about cutting babies out of people. Surgery is not and should not be the normal birth experience, except perhaps for those who choose it.

Is this where I harrow you all with tales of the emergency c-section for my first child and have you go “hang on, I thought you were a dude?”

+1 GnT. (That reminds me – time for a GnT).

As a doctor I find comments like these very offensive:

Jim Jones said:
A sterile and unfriendly grey room containing a group of strangers, many of whom are more interested in using drugs, medicalising everything and hurrying everything up as much as possible so that they can get to whatever else it is that they need to be doing, regardless of your plans and desires (Jim Jones, Post #6)

How dare you suggest that myself, my colleagues (midwifery and nursing staff included), have anything but the welfare of our patients, in this case the mother and child, at heart.

Without sounding arrogant, I suggest myself and my colleagues have a little more experience in this area than you do. I attended a delivery last night. A normal pregnancy and nothing to indicate anything would go wrong with the birth. If the baby had not been born in hospital, he most likely would have died. I see this regularly. This is why I am concerned, not because I have some burning desire to push drugs and medicalise everything.

I am all for a stress-free free birth and for empowering the mother to deliver in a setting she is comfortable in. I love the set outs of the various CMP rooms, which are co-sited in maternity units and don’t understand why such rooms cannot be available to all women. Why don’t you focus your efforts on improving birth centre facilities and staffing arrangements in a setting that is safe for both mother and child. Help families have the birthing they deserve while eliminating risks that are preventable in this day and age.

hey gnt, thanks for your stories of success – sorry if i gave any wrong impressions in my statements; i didn’t mean to decry hospital births at all (we are choosing one, due very soon!) and rekkun there is much to be said for having medical intervention, when it is required, on hand, as you did. but as you said, an ambulance would have offered you the same care you received anyway and, let’s face it, the vast majority of australians live in cities, ie near medical assistance.

as you also say, you support the right to birth at home, so i am curious as to what about my statement ‘bothered’ you? i was trying to point out that women can be left alone, with some good pre-knowledge as to what to expect, to pretty well birth on their own in relative comfort, or accede to medical intervention understanding their choice, not having it foistered unwantedly upon them – it is the mis-information that sets up the mindset that something is bound to go wrong/it is bound to be excruciatingly painful/etc that is awry with the current mainstream understanding, and so teaching / inculturating about the natural bith process that clouds the arguments for appropriate choice – which should include the choice for supported home birth.

I had negative hospital experiences in both public and private hospitals in canberra. Ignored, forced to be on the bed, not believed, intervention without asking, over medicated (first time), under medicated (second time). Not all the home birth descriptions of hospital births are propaganda.

I personally am still too gutless to homebirth, but I can see all the positives of it, and I support it as an option for australian women.

I am highly supportive of a woman’s right to chose a homebirth, but what bothers me are statements such as:

“a sterile and unfriendly grey room containing a group of strangers, many of whom are more interested in using drugs, medicalising everything and hurrying everything up as much as possible so that they can get to whatever else it is that they need to be doing, regardless of your plans and desires” (Jim Jones, RiotACT)

“I’ve no doubt which method is superior” (Maree Cisera, today’s CT)

“what causes many of the complications of birth is fear and apprehension as result of misinformation which means the woman’s instincts are overridden and cause her to fight against what is natural because she is too often told that what is ‘medical’ is normal when what is medical is ‘intervention’ and actually unnecessary” (astrojax, RiotACT)

I’ve had three hospital births and none of them were the negative experience that seems to be constantly portrayed by the homebirth lobby. I had a midwife’s support when I needed it, and was left alone when I wanted it. I had access to a bath and shower and was never required to be on the bed. I was able and encouraged to try different positions. I had dim lighting and misic if I wanted it. I was monitored when it was deemed necessary, but was granted a break from monitoring when I requested it.

I had an emergency situation with my third birth and was extremely grateful for the medical intervention given. To be fair, if I had given birth at home I would have called an ambulance and been taken to hospital in time, but if I had been in a remote area, or another country, I might have died.

I support a women’s right to birth at home if she wishes, but I demand that proper medical care be available nearby. Likewise, I hope the choice to have a hospital birth experience is supported by homebirth advocates. I do think hospitals have come a long way from the medicalised birth that is portrayed (and which I think still exists in other countries) and providing more choice within a hospital environment should be a priority. (Birth centres have made a start, but it is crazy that you should have to be in a separate unit to birth this way and be ineligible for this ‘choice’ if you have a high risk birth).

That is one point of view, but supporters of midwife assisted homebirth recommend it for remote areas where women are living a long way from a hospital, but may live close to a midwife.

Homebirth is a pretty small percentage in Australia, but has travelled along with no major issues for ages and I don’t see any good reasons to take the option away from women all of a sudden now, as part of regulating midwives more strongly.

The worst pain of my life was from a medical induction – medical indication nil.

As the phrasing of that abstract is not entirely clear, but everything since then has noted that rates of homebirths are falling in the Netherlands to the point that it still threatens the viability of the vroedvrouw industry (and it is an industry) even with massive subsidy…

“Less than 40% of all births in the Netherlands are adequately low risk that it only takes three years of specialised training and a safety net of being five minutes from a GP and about fifteen minutes from a specialist maternity ward for someone to put you through the worst pain of your life short of surviving 90% burns, in the ‘safety’ of a variably-hygenic home.“

PS: The statistic may seem impressive to you if all you care about is a number, but see earlier indications re: population density, total area, and subsidies. Achieving anythign close to that in Australia would require billions of dollars that could probably be better spent elsewhere.

barking toad said :

A simple solution would be for the right to sue to be withdrawn. Whether for delivery in a hospital or at home with a midwife.

No more crippling premiums, the cost of which is passed on, no more clogging up the courts, everyone’s better off. Except the legal fraternity.

If something goes wrong – well, shit happens. The ability to sue won’t change it.

I’m pretty sure that it’s impossible for people to ‘give up’ their legal rights in this country. And the ability to sue is still going to be necessary for cases of gross negligence.

The problem really lies with the legislation that’s being introduced, which seems remarkably poorly thought out (given that this issue is only really an unintended side effect).

So 40% of all births in Holland are homebirths -still a pretty impressive statistic.

sepi said :

homebirth is the norm in holland – it really isn’t some way out there bizarro thing.

Lies.
Link to a citable medical journal, just to drive the point home

Homebirth is more acceptable in Holland, in that it is a medical-professional and caregiver decision, not the mothers, and they have mandatory universal healthcare.
The fact that they are one of the most urbanised countries on Earth, are 1/200th the total area of Australia and pay astronomic supportive subsidies to allow citizens to use vroedvrouwen makes it a _lot_ easier to provide required care.

Low-risk births can homebirth with a vroedvrouw or choose to use hospital. 60% of all births occur in hospitals.
Vroedvrouw are registered, insured, and subject to very high standards, citizens are repeatedly stressed that the mother is the one most responsible for her child, not the vroedvrouw.
Choosing to homebirth a high risk-birth with only a vroedvrouw is akin to denying a child essential medical care.
She is just there to help the mother and catch the baby, not save her from her own bad choices.

Apples, oranges.

A simple solution would be for the right to sue to be withdrawn. Whether for delivery in a hospital or at home with a midwife.

No more crippling premiums, the cost of which is passed on, no more clogging up the courts, everyone’s better off. Except the legal fraternity.

If something goes wrong – well, shit happens. The ability to sue won’t change it.

Ralph said :

Why do these people expect Government, nee taxpayers, to fund their lifestyle choices? They can form their own organisation and raise the money for indemnity insurance.

Shouldn’t you be quoting Ayn Rand over on Andrew Bolt’s blog or something?

Ralph- why shouldn’t homebirthing women have access to the same level of government support that every other birthing woman in this country has? Noone is arguing for more (as far as i can tell), but it wold only be just to provide equality. From what I can tell, access to medicare rebates would still leave these women significantly out of pocket, as women who choose to birth with obstetricians do. After all, even homebirthers pay their taxes!!

homebirth is lot cheaper than hospital birth for the taxpayers.

and childbirth is a whole other level of pain. hospital ‘wonder drugs’ don’t even touch the sides.
that’s why people have gone looking for these hippy trippy alternatives.

homebirth is the norm in holland – it really isn’t some way out there bizarro thing.

chewy14 said :

Jim Jones said :

(b) surroundings that are familiar, reassuring, relaxed and comfortable, with an experienced midwife on hand (with whom you have developed a personal relationship) and medical backup if necessary.

Shouldn’t that be medical backup that is too far away if necessary?

The stats on home birth pretty much speak for themselves, it’s extremely rare that medical intervention is required (one of the major issues surrounding home birth is avoiding the overmedicalisation of birth which can have negative effects for both mother and child down the line). When medical attention is required, it’s even rarer for problems to be so time critical that the issue has to dealt with by a hospital immediately. Problems with birth are generally anticipated before birth, or quite early in labour.

bingo jim [#6], well said…

thanks, emd, for the wrap up. let’s hope the desired effect ensues, eh?

Actually homebirthers fully fund their birth choice. The taxpayer pays nothing for our choice.

The reason that the insurer stopped providing insurance was not because of the number of claims, which were exceedingly rare, but because of the cost of astronomic payouts for obstetric cases and the small base of midwives available to pay the premiums.

As the obstetrician speaking at the rally said, it has taken this long for hospital birth to become nearly as safe as homebirth is.

Similarly the doctor who had homebirthed four children herself had a lot to say about the reasons for her choice.

But if you really want to choose a safe location to give birth to a newborn baby, by all means take them along to an airconditioned location where they’re treating people for swine flu and the like.

*sigh*
the same reason other people expect the government to fund things related to their health and wellbeing.
I’m sure bike riders wonder why THEIR taxes go to roads, why childless workers taxes go on schools, why non smokers taxes go to smoking prevention campaigns.
Surely it is not that hard to see why.

Why do these people expect Government, nee taxpayers, to fund their lifestyle choices? They can form their own organisation and raise the money for indemnity insurance.

You can have homebirths if that floats your boat, but don’t expect that the taxes of hardworking plumbers and miners should pay for it, and then to pick up the pieces when it all goes horribly wrong.

These people are probably also the ones refusing to immunise their children. Another silly fad with imaginary benefits.

Skidd Marx said :

Why the hell would anyone want to have a home birth?

Humans have been ejecting children from wombs for hundreds of thousands of years (freebirthing), but the safer-form of having a specialist lend a hand has been around for a couple of thousand of years (Ancient Egypt practiced midwifed home-birth, midwifery was a regulated industry then and under the Catholic Church in Europe).

In Australia only 0.25% of babies in Australia are homebirthed currently, with minimal loss of mother’s life thanks to specialists recognising symptoms and having higher standards of hygeine, but freebirthed babies have a mortality rate 170% higher than average, and freebirthing mothers have death rate 9588% higher than the average.

People who want to birth at home would typically choose an assisting midwife if they can.
This law denies them the right to assisted home-birth, but those mothers\couples who want it bad enough might just risk freebirthing.

Also, let it be known throughout the land that I am not Skidd Marx.

TheObserver said :

Skidd

Some people don’t have a choice.

Actually the issue is simply that – the problem is not the pros and cons of homebirth, it’s about the removal of choice from citizens.

I can’t understand why you wouldn’t want hospital care and their wonderful drugs either, but hippies exist so let ’em choose I say…

I can understand wanting to have a home birth. For a start you can stay in the bath as long as you want to, instead of being forced to lie on a bed screaming in pain. And homebirthers have a sense of control over the process, and who is there, instead of having random strangers wandering in at any time.

In a similar vein – even with a minor splinter – Most people prefer to remove it themself,s rather than have someone else do it, let alone invite a stranger strap them down, invite in a series of onlookers and stab around with a scalpel.

Jim Jones said :

(b) surroundings that are familiar, reassuring, relaxed and comfortable, with an experienced midwife on hand (with whom you have developed a personal relationship) and medical backup if necessary.

Shouldn’t that be medical backup that is too far away if necessary?

Skidd Marx said :

Why the hell would anyone want to have a home birth?

Would you rather go through a lifechanging event in:

(a) a sterile and unfriendly grey room containing a group of strangers, many of whom are more interested in using drugs, medicalising everything and hurrying everything up as much as possible so that they can get to whatever else it is that they need to be doing, regardless of your plans and desires; or

(b) surroundings that are familiar, reassuring, relaxed and comfortable, with an experienced midwife on hand (with whom you have developed a personal relationship) and medical backup if necessary.

Skidd

Some people don’t have a choice.

Why the hell would anyone want to have a home birth?

indigenous birth advocate Fleur Magick

You can’t make this stuff up.

Graffiti seen at Manuka shops yesterday: “JESUS WAS BORN AT HOME”. Somebody needs a biblical history lesson.

So many great moments, but I loved everyone singing along with the Song to Nicola Roxon.

Oh, and some more nice moments for me:
* Telling Justine Caines that her description of homebirth on Sunrise at 8:15am made me want to have a homebirth too. Sunrise video here.

* Drawing the raffle for I think it was a Blue Mountains birth group – maybe a Save Homebirth group. They were also fund-raising with homebirth music CDs, and button badges.

* And Brindabella Baby gave away lots of free Pure Wipes samples for people with sticky or muddy hands and faces to clean up.