Bag Checks at Retail Stores

Jim Jones said :

peterh said :

begs the question, who buys software from a retailer? would you like the pricing to come down?
what if there wasn’t any shop theft of software products? would the price we pay be the same?

Last time I checked, stores sold many things other than software. I don’t remember software even being mentioned in this thread.

Might be time to turn off the computer and go outside for a bit.

jim, the point i was trying to make was that the cost of software has gone up over the years, not just by profits, but also from recovery of loss. I agree, i need some fresh air.

peterh said :

begs the question, who buys software from a retailer? would you like the pricing to come down?
what if there wasn’t any shop theft of software products? would the price we pay be the same?

Last time I checked, stores sold many things other than software. I don’t remember software even being mentioned in this thread.

Might be time to turn off the computer and go outside for a bit.

So you’re saying that everyone in retail should act like a doormat?

Do you not think that this encourages people to act like assholes?

There’s a level of complaint that is reasonable, but if someone acts inappropriately they should be shown the door. Demonstrating lack of respect for someone is never on, regardless of their job.

If your philosophy among your staff was “if a customer sh*ts in your mouth, you smile, and thank them for the ice cream”, then I’m guessing your staff wanted you to die.

I’ve worked at registers, as a retail manager, and even as a concierge. I’ve always encouraged my staff to be as empathetic as possible. Let customers yell at you, call you names, whatever. They’re customers, and they’re unhappy with the service we’re providing. Listen to them, as every complaint is valuable. Use this insight to better the service of staff and the organisaton. Whether they are right or wrong in complaining, it is a staffer’s job to listen to the customer’s complaint, and make it clear to the customer that they fully understand their frustration. We may not be able to help them in the way they would like us to, but at least we can placate them to some degree by listening to their gripe. I encouraged this philosophy among my staff – “if a customer sh*ts in your mouth, you smile, and thank them for the ice cream”.

Personally I think that if a business makes performing the chicken dance a condition of entry, then customers should have to do it or not enter.

The business would quickly go under but it would be an amusing few weeks.

begs the question, who buys software from a retailer? would you like the pricing to come down?
what if there wasn’t any shop theft of software products? would the price we pay be the same?

bearlikesbeer said :

Thanks for the info, PsydFX.

Irrespective of whether retailers have the right to ASK to look in a customer’s bag, the real issue for me is that retailers understand and respect a customer’s right to say NO.

The AFP and ACCC are very clear on this issue. Retailers can make up any conditions of entry they like. Heck, they could make it a condition of entry that customers be asked to perform the chicken dance, but if a customer refuses, then retailers have to accept that.

Retailers have the right to ask, and customers have the right to say no. End of story. Nobody should be abusing anyone over such a simple issue. Customers shouldn’t get up staff for asking, and staff shouldn’t have a go at customers for refusing. This could all be handled quite politely, but for some reason, people on both sides get nasty.

It is a stated condition of entry that you show your bag if requested, and if you have no intention of doing so, you straight up shouldn’t enter. You’re just being an arrogant wanker.

bearlikesbeer said :

Irrespective of whether retailers have the right to ASK to look in a customer’s bag, the real issue for me is that retailers understand and respect a customer’s right to say NO.

What about the storeowner’s right to try and minimize theft? Why is this somehow less important than you’re ‘right to say no’ (god knows where that ‘right’ came from, can’t remember it from the UNHCR). It’s 10 seconds of standing with your bag open that eventually results in less theft and lower prices.

If you don’t like it, don’t go into the store.

jakez said :

peterh said :

Retail is the area of the thickskinned worker. Anything that has gone wrong for the customer is invariably your fault. Learn to have a placid face.

I still haven’t gotten the hang of that last part.

Don’t take it personally. It really isn’t your fault that the item advertised has already been sold out. (most common complaint i got) or that the manufacturer left out some important bolts for the chair, etc, etc.

it takes time. you see a lot of retail people looking gormless. they really don’t care about what the hysterically screaming guy is on about, and they wait to see how long the screaming will go on for. worst retail job of all though, is answering the phone…

peterh said :

Retail is the area of the thickskinned worker. Anything that has gone wrong for the customer is invariably your fault. Learn to have a placid face.

I still haven’t gotten the hang of that last part.

I want to go to a Walmart. It would have to be quite an experience.

PsydFX said :

jakez said :

Hmm yeah we never did clear up the legality of it in the ACT. Although personally I think whether it is legal or not is boring. Let’s talk about whether it is RIGHT!

From AFP:

There is currently no specific legislation dealing with business owners rights to check customer’s bags or search a person. However, you can set conditions of entry. These conditions can include presenting bags, parcels, cartons, or containers for checking by staff.

One method of displaying conditions of entry is using prominently displayed notices that clearly set out conditions of entry. The notices must be as large as practicable and displayed at a point where they can be seen clearly prior to entry to the business.

Customers entering a business that has prominently displayed the conditions of entry imply they have accepted or consented to the conditions of entry.

That’s interesting. That was what I thought it would have been originally. I guess though we moved into the scenario of what happens if someone then refuses. That’s where the info got a bit muddled.

I know that people get banned from malls so it would be very surprising if individual stores can’t do that.

jakez said :

PsydFX, as someone who works in retail, if we made things illegal based on the fear of abuse, WE’D HAVE TO BAN RETAIL JOBS!

There is a difference between ensuring safe practice, and making things illegal because of ‘mental health’. If someone doesn’t have the mental health to do a retail job and cop the abuse, then they shouldn’t be in retail. I wouldn’t blame them for leaving.

Jim Jones, I was needlessly invective in my original post to sheep. I should have presented my thoughts in a more rational and less emotive manner. It is not your fault that my point was lost.

Don’t like retail? Don’t work in retail.

I ran a small store in Woden plaza, tiny space it was, but I always checked bags. I received several abusive comments, but as I was the manager, the buck stopped with me.

I checked bags earlier in my retail career at woolies belco, when i worked on a checkout.

I was conscious of at least 10-12 abusive clients per day. I had people demand to see the manager at woolies on more than one occasion.

I didn’t enjoy being yelled at. I got enough of that at home.

what did i do?

I got out of retail. I started working for an SME IT company. I still got the abusive clients, but it is a fact of life.

I now get abuse from my clients who are retailers and other IT companies. Christmas time is time to rant. Everyone is stressed, and everyone lets off steam at someone.

when i go into BigW, Kmart, Target, etc, etc. I show my bags. I don’t care. I know how the poor bugger feels about having to ask me to show the bags. I have been there.

Retail is the area of the thickskinned worker. Anything that has gone wrong for the customer is invariably your fault. Learn to have a placid face.

Thanks for the info, PsydFX.

Irrespective of whether retailers have the right to ASK to look in a customer’s bag, the real issue for me is that retailers understand and respect a customer’s right to say NO.

The AFP and ACCC are very clear on this issue. Retailers can make up any conditions of entry they like. Heck, they could make it a condition of entry that customers be asked to perform the chicken dance, but if a customer refuses, then retailers have to accept that.

Retailers have the right to ask, and customers have the right to say no. End of story. Nobody should be abusing anyone over such a simple issue. Customers shouldn’t get up staff for asking, and staff shouldn’t have a go at customers for refusing. This could all be handled quite politely, but for some reason, people on both sides get nasty.

I’ve been to many a WalMart. I’ve either not been hassled about it – or in most cases they had…yes wit for it…LOCKERS! 😉

jakez said :

Hmm yeah we never did clear up the legality of it in the ACT. Although personally I think whether it is legal or not is boring. Let’s talk about whether it is RIGHT!

From AFP:

There is currently no specific legislation dealing with business owners rights to check customer’s bags or search a person. However, you can set conditions of entry. These conditions can include presenting bags, parcels, cartons, or containers for checking by staff.

One method of displaying conditions of entry is using prominently displayed notices that clearly set out conditions of entry. The notices must be as large as practicable and displayed at a point where they can be seen clearly prior to entry to the business.

Customers entering a business that has prominently displayed the conditions of entry imply they have accepted or consented to the conditions of entry.

PsydFX said :

I just did a search on: Walmart “Bag checking”
Seems they have the same gripes as us, so it’s not just an Australian thing.

It’s the internet, everyone has a gripe about everything.

I just did a search on: Walmart “Bag checking”
Seems they have the same gripes as us, so it’s not just an Australian thing.

Hmm yeah we never did clear up the legality of it in the ACT. Although personally I think whether it is legal or not is boring. Let’s talk about whether it is RIGHT!

I had a great moment the other day buying fast food, some fat d1ckwad was treating the 16yo serving girl like a piece of sh1t because he couldn’t get what he wanted or something, so I let him have a serve from me.

It’s so cathartic to tell these people exactly what sort of wankers they are. If more people did it, then there’d be less instances of assh0le customers.

While I agree with your last comments, I think you’re WAY of mark with this one Jim! Following the on-going posts of this thread, what has this got to do with abusing fast food servers?

I think some refocus needs to happen in relation to the fact that Canberra (and maybe Australia as a whole) are one of the only places in the world that insist of rifling through people’s belongings in case they stole something. There are so many other options – and I think it’s important to clear up the question of is it the “law” that stores can do this – or just their own rules.

Jim Jones said :

“I believe it’s the attitudes of wanker customers like OP that need to change.”

Hear hear.

I had a great moment the other day buying fast food, some fat d1ckwad was treating the 16yo serving girl like a piece of sh1t because he couldn’t get what he wanted or something, so I let him have a serve from me.

It’s so cathartic to tell these people exactly what sort of wankers they are. If more people did it, then there’d be less instances of assh0le customers.

You are a hero mate. Retail workers can’t say anything but it’s so great when another customer gets stuck into jerks. Stuff like that makes my day.

For a start, I don’t think Bag Checks should be illegal, personally I believe it’s the attitudes of wanker customers like OP that need to change.

I absolutely agree. All I was saying was that if we made everything that caused mental health damage illega, retail jobs couldn’t exist. As a retail worker, I think it’s unfortunately unavoidable. Trust me mate, I absolutely which wanker customers would change.

Let’s for the sake of this argument change the term “Abuse” to “Sexual Harrasment” (which is just another form of abuse anyway), are you saying that a women shouldn’t work in an environment where she is the victim of Sexual Harrasment because she doesn’t have the mental health to cop the abuse?

Well I think the difference is that the abuse usually has some sort of ‘complaint’ role to it where the customers dislike some particular policy (which can be a legitimate action). Unfortunately some people are jerks. However I can’t see any scope for sexual harassment as a legitimate form of complaint.

Just becuase you work in retail and can “cop the abuse” doesn’t make subject expert or able to relate to everyone in the industry, I think it’s time to get down off that big hero-horse you rode in on.

All I’m saying mate is that for the original post by sheep, complaining about one piece of abuse per day represented a pretty good day in my book. I’m not saying that’s a good thing or how it should be. I’m merely pointing out the sad reality of societies seeming attitude to the retail workers of our day. At the end of the day, retail comes with abuse and that isn’t going to change. You need to role with it or get out. Like I said earlier, I wouldn’t blame anyone for getting out of the industry.

“I believe it’s the attitudes of wanker customers like OP that need to change.”

Hear hear.

I had a great moment the other day buying fast food, some fat d1ckwad was treating the 16yo serving girl like a piece of sh1t because he couldn’t get what he wanted or something, so I let him have a serve from me.

It’s so cathartic to tell these people exactly what sort of wankers they are. If more people did it, then there’d be less instances of assh0le customers.

jakez said :

PsydFX, as someone who works in retail, if we made things illegal based on the fear of abuse, WE’D HAVE TO BAN RETAIL JOBS!

For a start, I don’t think Bag Checks should be illegal, personally I believe it’s the attitudes of wanker customers like OP that need to change.

jakez said :

There is a difference between ensuring safe practice, and making things illegal because of ‘mental health’. If someone doesn’t have the mental health to do a retail job and cop the abuse, then they shouldn’t be in retail. I wouldn’t blame them for leaving.

Let’s for the sake of this argument change the term “Abuse” to “Sexual Harrasment” (which is just another form of abuse anyway), are you saying that a women shouldn’t work in an environment where she is the victim of Sexual Harrasment because she doesn’t have the mental health
to cop the abuse?

Bottomline, there is no difference, abuse is abuse, and should not be tolerated in any form in any workplace.

Just becuase you work in retail and can “cop the abuse” doesn’t make subject expert or able to relate to everyone in the industry, I think it’s time to get down off that big hero-horse you rode in on.

PsydFX, as someone who works in retail, if we made things illegal based on the fear of abuse, WE’D HAVE TO BAN RETAIL JOBS!

There is a difference between ensuring safe practice, and making things illegal because of ‘mental health’. If someone doesn’t have the mental health to do a retail job and cop the abuse, then they shouldn’t be in retail. I wouldn’t blame them for leaving.

Jim Jones, I was needlessly invective in my original post to sheep. I should have presented my thoughts in a more rational and less emotive manner. It is not your fault that my point was lost.

How is it “pretty bad”? it’s the basis of OH&S!

“Fearing abuse in the workplace is neither selfish or stupid”

I agree.

But wanting something to be illegal solely for this reason is pretty bad. It’s one thing to hate and fear abuse, it’s another thing to use it as a legislative foundation.

Jim Jones said :

“because they want to make something illegal because they don’t like that part of their job.”

Fair enough. That part of your argument I obviously missed amongst the littered abuse. I agree with you there. Wanting something to be illegal because it’s an inconvenience is selfish and stupid.

My apologies.

Fearing abuse in the workplace is neither selfish or stupid. I think it is fair that someone wants something made illegal in the workplace if it has a direct impact on their mental health – which constant abuse is sure to do.

“because they want to make something illegal because they don’t like that part of their job.”

Fair enough. That part of your argument I obviously missed amongst the littered abuse. I agree with you there. Wanting something to be illegal because it’s an inconvenience is selfish and stupid.

My apologies.

Jim Jones said :

jakez said :

You want it to be illegal because YOU don’t like doing it and you get ONE piece of abuse per day?

Here’s a newsflash for you buddy, one piece of abuse per day is a good day at the retail office. If you don’t like your job, why don’t you take the walk instead of getting the boys with guns to do the hard lifting.

I wish you were illegal.

WTF is wrong with you Jakez?

Someone posts an explanation of how much it sucks having to check bags, throws in a few offhand comments about not liking to be treated like dirt and you get all pissy about it.

You’ve just acted like a prime example of the w@nker customers who treat service people like sh1t: someone obviously so insecure about their own social status that they treat other people like dirt to make themselves seem bigger.

That’s absolute crap Jim Jones. I work in retail and I always treat workers with respect. I don’t like electrocuted sheep because they want to make something illegal because they don’t like that part of their job. They need to grow up. This is the worst attitude in society and I will rail against it.

What’s wrong with you wanting to make it illegal because you don’t like it is that is the exact attitude that is making our society such a terrible one. Whenever somebody doesn’t like something instead of removing themselves from the situation, they want the Government to ban it.

I work in retail, I know it sucks, but do you know what? I suck it up because I want the job. There are parts of my job that I don’t like but I don’t want it to be illegal because I don’t want to destroy the fundamental property rights of others just so I can be a little more comfy. I’m not lazy and I’m not a megalomaniac.

If you are getting 5 or 6 complaints, congratulations, you can now complain about retail like the rest of us, however don’t use the guns of Government to solve your problems for you. Be an adult.

jakez said :

You want it to be illegal because YOU don’t like doing it and you get ONE piece of abuse per day?

Here’s a newsflash for you buddy, one piece of abuse per day is a good day at the retail office. If you don’t like your job, why don’t you take the walk instead of getting the boys with guns to do the hard lifting.

I wish you were illegal.

WTF is wrong with you Jakez?

Someone posts an explanation of how much it sucks having to check bags, throws in a few offhand comments about not liking to be treated like dirt and you get all pissy about it.

You’ve just acted like a prime example of the w@nker customers who treat service people like sh1t: someone obviously so insecure about their own social status that they treat other people like dirt to make themselves seem bigger.

Actually, considering it’s Christmas period, Jakez, I don’t get at least ONE piece of abuse, it’s now like 5 or 6 per day. And this isn’t just concerning bags. Do you think I am the only one that dislikes it? I’ve spoken about it with my manager, and she hates it as well. She actually tells the customer to move in the bag whatever is obstructing her view, to get a good look. I just take a quick scan so as not to aggravate the already aggravated customer. I’ve also heard of my other fellow employees complain of customers, as the area where we are located in is a low income area, where it is renowned for having ‘trailer trash.’ (Others have said that, not me!)

And so what if I want it to be illegal? As do many other customers, as evident by this thread. Since it’s a ‘violation of their privacy rights’ as one customer told me. It’s so I don’t get hurled by daily abuse by irritated customers.

So one form of abuse by a customer is a good day for you, eh? So I am right in that customer service is one of the worst jobs one can have. And quitting? Now? Are you joking? In the time of an economic crisis? I’m actually grateful for my job, as my supervisor has said there has been a rise in applications/resumes lately, more than usual, even in the holiday period. Actually, I would ‘take a walk’ but I want to build up a decent amount of experience so as to have a better chance of getting another job in a similar field. I’ve only been working in retail for a few months now, and they still have yet to teach me how to refund. I want to able say that on my resume at least.

I’m just complaining about the customers I come across that don’t respect or adhere to the store’s policies or rules. When it is clearly written on a sign as they enter. A HUGE ASS SIGN I MIGHT ADD. I HAVE ALWAYS adhered to that policy, without complaint, as I had nothing to hide. So when I first started checking bags, I was really taken aback by the abuse and rudeness I was receiving from customers. It was my job. I had just been told off by my manager for not checking bags, and now here I was taking shit from customers for doing my job.

And here I am looking for any document that states if it is illegal to check bags, and I come across forums like these, and seeing people gloat of just walking past those whose job it is to check bags. Or hurling abuse at them, or just being a smartarse. Jeeze, people it’s their job!! They’ll get in trouble for not checking bags!!

The standard procedure of handling customers who do to bag inspections is by stating, “It is a condition of entry when entering the store.” And if they still refuse, “That’s fine, but you may want to leave your bag in the car next time you come in as it is a condition of entry when entering the store, is to allow bag inspections.” Something along those lines. Sometimes, if the customer doesn’t believe us, he/she may want to meet the manager, so we call down the manager.

I honestly don’t know where the customers got the idea that it is illegal to check bags, as this policy has been in place for years now, as long as I was little. I think they got it from stores who refuse to check bags because they ran into some legality with some customer, and are just taking necessary precautions. But that’s just some theory of mine. A colleague of mine did tell me that they weren’t allowed to check bags when she used to work at Target. Even if they suspected of someone of stealing, or had something in their handbag, they weren’t allowed to imply to the customer that they thought they were stealing, as the customer can sue or something. That had to say it in a way like, “Do you plan on paying for that?” or “Are you going to pay for that?” But not in a way to the customer that made him/her think that you thought they were stealing.

Even if the customer said, “No that’s mine” they couldn’t do anything about it, even if a staff member was adamant that they knew the customer had stolen it. Only when they exited the store could the staff members do anything about it. Like call the police. But by the time the police would come, it was usually too late. But even if the police did come on time, you had to be 100% SURE that the customer had stolen, because if they hadn’t, the customer can sue.

My colleague also said, because she has worked in retail for years, sometimes even filling in as a security guard, that you’d be surprised at the TYPE of people who would steal. Mothers, grandmothers, old people, teenagers, businessmen, incredibly kind people who were sweet at you at the counter could possibly have stolen. Some mothers would also hide stuff under the diapers in their prams, or under their babies while they sat in their stroller. Morals don’t matter to some people, nor with potentially being called a theif.

I wish customers were more like you ant, as it would be easier for me and the customer if they just left their bags in their car, or better yet at home, if they don’t like bag inspections!

That’s an impassioned response from Mr or Ms Sheep. It’s always illuminating to hear about something like this from the poor low-paid bunny who gets lumbered with carrying out the actual policy. I object to the shops that want to look in my bag, not the person doing it, but of course it’s standard for people to take out their annoyance on the person in front of them.

I actually don’t go in to shops that check bags when I’m carrying a bag, becasue I just don’t want to feel unpleasant, like a dirty thief.

electrocuted_sheep said :

I’m always CAUTIOUS and SCARED when I ask customers to check their bags, as I’m always scared at what kind of abuse they might hurl at me.

I understand that it is part of your job to ask to inspect people’s bags. So how do you handle people refusing the request? What is the procedure at Sam’s when someone won’t let you look in their bag?

You want it to be illegal because YOU don’t like doing it and you get ONE piece of abuse per day?

Here’s a newsflash for you buddy, one piece of abuse per day is a good day at the retail office. If you don’t like your job, why don’t you take the walk instead of getting the boys with guns to do the hard lifting.

I wish you were illegal.

Hmm… I work at Sam’s Warehouse, and I HAVE TO CHECK BAGS! For a while I wasn’t, as I didn’t think my store was that strict, but my manager was secretly watching me one day, and noted I wasn’t checking bags. He came over when I wasn’t busy, and told me to do start doing so and threatened me with a warning. (Three warnings and I could get fired). Now I do it. When I got that warning I did it religiously, and I got hurled one form of abuse from customers at least once a day. I hate it. Checking bags is the WORST aspect of my job. NO. JOKE. I’m always CAUTIOUS and SCARED when I ask customers to check their bags, as I’m always scared at what kind of abuse they might hurl at me.

It’s my job to check bags! I get in trouble if I don’t! I wish customers would understand that.

I don’t do it as much anymore, only when my managers are around. So if I do come across some snappy customers I can just call one of my managers, and sort out the problem. I also I don’t want to get in trouble. But I try to avoid it at all costs. This experience has led me to believe that customer service is one of the worst jobs you could possibly have. I’m so glad I am not pursuing this as a lifetime career but as one of those ‘in-between careers.’

I have heard that it is illegal, but I have spoken about it with one of my managers and she said no. I even looked up online, and I haven’t come across anything that says it is.

But seriously, I WISH it was ILLEGAL, cos then I wouldn’t have to check bags. Do you think I enjoy checking bags? HELL NO! If there’s a site that says it is, with some sort of proof, with a legal document, could someone direct me towards it? I can print it out and more than gladly show it to my managers, and just maybe change their minds on the whole checking bags thing.

I HATE IT PEOPLES! IT SUCKS!

I’m even thinking of quitting to another retail job where they don’t have to check bags, like a video store. (I hate hospitality, I’ve worked there…)

But seriously, it only takes a few seconds. And most of the time, I’ve seen in bags is just junk and rubbish, it’s not like I’m going through your wallet or reading messages on your mobile phone. What’s so precious in your bag that I can’t even have a quick glance at? It’s not like I’m going to pick it up, and go through it! I’m not even allowed to touch bags!

By the way, in my store we don’t have RFID tags neither, so it’s another reason why we gotta check bags. We also live in a low-income area, where thievery is common, so we always gotta be on the lookout. Not to mention chromers! But that’s a whole ‘nother story.

We’ve also hired security guards who stand at the door, and the managers also got pissed at them for just standing there, so they also must check bags as people walk out.

That was a long-winded post but it’s a topic I am heated up about. I know first-hand at what customers can be and treat you like, when you are nothing but a check-out girl to them. Once again, it’s my job to check bags and I do get in trouble for not checking them!

And, YES we do have a huge-ass sign at the entrance of the store saying it is a condition of entry when entering the store, that they must allow bag inspections! How they miss that sign when entering is beyond me.

Seriously, when advertising for employees for retail, it should be a part of their job description/requirement: Be able to tolerate customers’ abuse, because I’m starting to think I can’t really take it anymore.

So to all those who are complaining, please just try to be understanding. It only takes a few seconds, it’s a part of their job, they’ll most likely get in trouble if they don’t check bags and there are better issues to get riled up about.

Sorry once again for the long-winded post…

Yup, most (bigger) stores have some implementation of RFID tags now-a-days. I think thats why coles and woolies don’t feel it is nessesary to check bags very often anymore.

Those detector things actually seem to work. last week I got some stuff at Coles, and a Coles Bag to put it all in. The checkout lady put all my new stuff in my new bag, but as I took it away from the checkout the alarm thing went off. She got the bar code tab insdie the bag and pulled it off, saying that was what set off the detector.

If a simple bar code tag will set off detectors, why not just use that?

Allens have some funny system, where at the checkout, they wave the item over a section of the coutner, and it makes a funny noise. Evidently it is disabling some security device.

bearlikesbeer said :

Jim Jones, a friendly question would be “May I please check your receipt for that item?” but “Did you pay for that?” is a long way from friendly. The question implies that I may not have paid for the item.

Oh come on, ‘Have you paid for that?’ is a generic question – maybe even a little surly. But there’s no implication that you’ve stolen anything.

Statements such as “It’s like security gets p*ssed off that customers so frequently call their bluff” reveal a lot of hostility.

Just let the poor buggers do their jobs – it’s crap work, with crap pay, and picking on these people doesn’t help anyone.

no worries Jim Jones

p1 said :

Racial Profiling is what its called when you are a black american.

Apparently after 9/11 one US airport had a sign up saying “If your first name is Mohammad and your last name isn’t Ali, expect a long wait”

Jim Jones, a friendly question would be “May I please check your receipt for that item?” but “Did you pay for that?” is a long way from friendly. The question implies that I may not have paid for the item.

bearlikesbeer said :

Of course we bloody paid for it!!!” It’s just insulting.

People have stolen computers before like this. And an ounce of prevention is worth blah blah blah.

With respect, I find it really hard to understand why you think it ‘insulting’. All you had to do was answer a simple (usually friendly) question. What’s the deal?

Fair enough, FC. And my apologies for any implication that you were involved in ‘jerkwaddery’. It wasn’t directed at you specifically.

Stores use bag checks as a preventative measure more than anything else. I can’t imagine they’d be doing it if it weren’t reaping some kind of reward.

I honestly can’t see why it would faze anyone. It takes less then 10 seconds. I get checked everywhere, and I acknowledge that I’m a sketchy looking bloke. So what?

So what’s wrong with profiling? It’s an effective means of concentrating resources where they are most likely to be effective. Our government does it, why shouldn’t shop owners?

Jim Jones, I agree that security is in a difficult position, but in the end it would seem that bag checks are really just a scare tactic. It discourages shoplifting, but doesn’t actually catch people at it. A prevention, rather than a cure. I mean, how many shoplifters open their bags for inspection and get caught? A very stupid few, I imagine. Instead, security jump at legitimate customers, and then get irate when these customers decline the inspection. It’s like security gets p*ssed off that customers so frequently call their bluff.

Once when walking out of JB with my wife, security stepped in front of the door, pointed at the boxed computer(with receipt taped to it)under my arm, and asked “Did you pay for that, mate?”. We couldn’t stop laughing. My wife eventually replied “No. We snuck into the storeroom, grabbed a computer, snuck behind the counter and printed up a fake receipt for it, then chose to walk out through the front doors with the box in full view, but you caught us just in time. We really thought we were home-free. Of course we bloody paid for it!!!” It’s just insulting.

So is the policy that they’ll check everyones bag, or only if you’re dressed a certain way.

I suspect that there is a policy that people who appear suspicious get more attention. Racial Profiling is what its called when you are a black american. Economic Profiling might be a better term here.

Jim Jones, I didn’t start on any, ” I know my rights” rant. I was polite and simply said “no, sorry” shaking my head.

They have alarms at the doors of these places also. So that just confuses me why they need to check peoples bags.
They can keep on asking and I will just keep on saying no.
if I had done something specifically to rouse suspision then maybe, but I think the whole things is a bit over the top.

Hardly jerkwaddery..

The security guys who do this job get paid barely enough to live on, are under pressure from pushy managers (who are under pressure to prevent in-store theft), and then some bloke starts doing the ‘I know my rights’ thing about a completely unthreatening request to look in your bag.

No wonder they’re stunned. That kind of jerkwaddery stuns me too.

FC said :

I got asked in JB to show my bag a few months bag and I said no. The guy seemed stunned and didn’t know what to say.

Exactly. It’s fine for security to ask, but it’s also fine for a customer to say no. Security seem to have trouble accepting this idea, and I don’t understand why. I can only assume they’re not aware that it’s my right to say no, no matter what the store’s conditions of entry might be.

I got asked in JB to show my bag a few months bag and I said no. The guy seemed stunned and didn’t know what to say.
Now I don’t have anything dodgy in my bag but I just don’t feel that I want to be showing my personal belongings to so random security guard.
My main annoyance is the fact that I never get asked when I go in a lunch time and I’m still suited up from work. Only when I’m in “casual wear”
So is the policy that they’ll check everyones bag, or only if you’re dressed a certain way.

I don’t get it.

If you know that a particular shop wants to inspect your bag – you’ve seen the sign – and you know that you are going to refuse, then why go in? And if you know they don’t follow the ARA voluntary code, which you think they should – then again, don’t go in.

If you feel strongly about it, shop elsewhere!

Like Granny, years of feeling the suspicious eyes on my back means I shop with hands behind my back in some shops — but that’s my choice to go in there.

The ARA code is not god and has been discredited in many instances by a few posts on here. If you feel those posts are inaccurate, please provide a rebuttal so that we may all discover the truth.

farnarkler said :

Back to the real point, a bag check only takes a few seconds so why bother wasting all that energy being angry about it?

My original point does not relate to whether or not poeple should be angry about bag checks. Do it or don’t, that’s an individual’s own decision. My issue is with the stores not conducting bag checks in accordance with the ARA code. A customer is free to decline a bag check, and if/when he does, should not be harrassed by security for doing so. I’m tired of getting an earful from security. Why can’t they just politely take no for an answer? They are perfectly within their rights to ask that I not return to the store again, and I’m fine with that. What I’m not okay with is being yelled at, grabbed, and called a shoplifter. That’s just not on.

Wow. Poor kids!

farnarkler said :

VYBerlina in Singapore Maccas has a sign saying that children are not allowed to use Maccas seats for studying. Can you imagine that anywhere else!!? Back to the real point, a bag check only takes a few seconds so why bother wasting all that energy being angry about it?

thank god we dont have that over here!! i’ve spent just a little too much time “studying??”in maccas 😀

VYBerlina in Singapore Maccas has a sign saying that children are not allowed to use Maccas seats for studying. Can you imagine that anywhere else!!? Back to the real point, a bag check only takes a few seconds so why bother wasting all that energy being angry about it?

Mr Evil said :

I have no problem with bag searches: I now secret all my stolen goods inside my rectum.

Deadmandrinking said :

F-ckin hell! What is wrong with you people?

Wah Wah the dog food is in the wrong place.

Wah Wah I have to show my bag when I leave a store.

Wah Wah I don’t want Junk mail but I’m too lazy to put up a sign.

Is life just too…hard?

It was cat food smeghead! See, you can’t even keep up with all our whinges. 🙂

Okay, nerd 😛

p1 said :

How big is your hand bag? Because the big shops used to have a “if your bag is bigger then this” sign, which should exclude most handbags.

Yep. ARA’s code of practice for bag checks states security can only ask to inspect a bag if it is A4 size or larger. Also remember that security should only ever ask to check bags. They should not ask to look in briefcases, or any other solid container (as these don’t qualify as bags).

How big is your hand bag? Because the big shops used to have a “if your bag is bigger then this” sign, which should exclude most handbags.

barking toad said :

Why take a bag into a shop (eg Woolies)?

well i carry a handbag with all my necessities, as do probably all the other females on this site, and wether i am in big w, woolies, kmart, they always ask to check my handbag.

fair enough if i had a few shoppings bags, but i absolutly hate it when people ask to check my handbag.

Why not shop with a transparent bag?

I have no problem with bag searches: I now secret all my stolen goods inside my rectum.

Deadmandrinking said :

F-ckin hell! What is wrong with you people?

Wah Wah the dog food is in the wrong place.

Wah Wah I have to show my bag when I leave a store.

Wah Wah I don’t want Junk mail but I’m too lazy to put up a sign.

Is life just too…hard?

It was cat food smeghead! See, you can’t even keep up with all our whinges. 🙂

And how much crime is there in Singapore? Not that much, I’d wager…

Special G said :

The other SE asian regular occurrance is blokes standing at the front door to the premises with a shotgun. That is a shop lifting deterrent.

Saw a sign inside a CD shop in Singapore which read:
“Shoplifting is DANGEROUS! The police CANNOT help you!!!”

The other SE asian regular occurrance is blokes standing at the front door to the premises with a shotgun. That is a shop lifting deterrent.

Deadmandrinking said :

F-ckin hell! What is wrong with you people?

Wah Wah the dog food is in the wrong place.

Wah Wah I have to show my bag when I leave a store.

Wah Wah I don’t want Junk mail but I’m too lazy to put up a sign.

Is life just too…hard?

Pretty much, someone needs to put these morons out of their misery.

Anyone who thinks its too hard or against their rights to spend 10 seconds showing the staff member what’s inside their bag as they walk out of a shop is a d-ckhead. If you haven’t stolen anything and have nothing to hide, you should have absolutely no problem with complying with the request. Standing there and arguing with staff whether or not they have the right to see inside your bag is utter stupidity and you will normally just end up spending another 15 minutes of your precious time doing it.

Deadmandrinking said :

F-ckin hell! What is wrong with you people?

Wah Wah the dog food is in the wrong place.

Wah Wah I have to show my bag when I leave a store.

Wah Wah I don’t want Junk mail but I’m too lazy to put up a sign.

Is life just too…hard?

Agreed.

And i’ll admit it now, whilst having to make a fake security call, whilst working for one of those darn places, i’ve accidentally? laughed whilst doing so.
thats my thoughts on security! 😉

There is a novel way around this problem – have seen shops in SE Asia that will shrink wrap your purchases from other stores as you enter their store. If it’s sealed, you can’t steal. Or so the concept goes.

Would be ok if the plastic was the biodegradable type, and would reduce the need for ‘enthusiastic’ bag checking on the way out. Second the comments about JB HiFi, but if it helps keep the prices down then it is worth the extra few seconds on the way out.

If some people’s privacy is so precious, how do they get on at airport customs, or in the doctor’s surgery.

Just wait to you’re up for a prostate examination. Now THERE’S an invasion of privacy!

F-ckin hell! What is wrong with you people?

Wah Wah the dog food is in the wrong place.

Wah Wah I have to show my bag when I leave a store.

Wah Wah I don’t want Junk mail but I’m too lazy to put up a sign.

Is life just too…hard?

damnintellectuals said :

Whatsup said :

Let them check your bag… it’s not a big deal unless its full of stolen goods.

It’s a big deal because it is a matter of privacy. I may have a pocket vibrator in my bag, or some pot, or a porno, or my hemorrhoid cream, or pictures of your mom striking a naked pose. It’s my bag and what’s in it is none of the store’s concern.

If you think they will check your bag then please put the pictures of my mum in an envelope. Thank you !

Seriously… do you think that shop assistants are going to take much notice. A quick glance for anything obvious is the normal procedure.

To the retail workers frustrated, maybe you should get some of this?

imhotep said :

Put yourself in the store owner’s place. Should he allow everyone to just walk in and out of his/her store without scrutiny?

A lot of people steal stuff. The store owner has rights too. If you don’t like it, go somewhere else.

.

Unfortunately imhotep, the store owner doesn’t seem to have rights.

Put yourself in the store owner’s place. Should he allow everyone to just walk in and out of his/her store without scrutiny?

A lot of people steal stuff. The store owner has rights too. If you don’t like it, go somewhere else.

.

BerraBoy68 said :

IMO bag checks are a very minor, even irrelevant, attem[pt at deterring would be thieves. Same with the fake “Security to Isle (Insert random isle no here)’ messages that get put out every 10 or so minutes in some stores.

My wife managed a bookstore at Belco Mall for 17 years. Towards the end of her time at that store entire shelves of books would go missing (we’re talking 30+ books)at a go. She actually saw a bloke walk into the store one arvo, drop every book on a shelf into his bag and start to walk out. She asked him to stop and he laughed at her asking what she was going to do and she dared touch him he’d do her for assault. She rang security (who took their sweet time coming) by which time the thief was long gone. She later asked the police what her rights were in being able to stop such guys (this was happening weekly if not daily) and it was pretty much nil. She later organised a course for her staff, run by the AFP, on how to handle these situations but her Head Office told her to cancel the course as they regarded it as a waste of time and money. Thats one of the reasons she quit retail.

I would say what the police said is largely accurate (which is an absolute disgraceful state of affairs) however I would generally say that members of the police force are never good sources of the current law.

damnintellectuals said :

Whatsup said :

Let them check your bag… it’s not a big deal unless its full of stolen goods.

It’s a big deal because it is a matter of privacy. I may have a pocket vibrator in my bag, or some pot, or a porno, or my hemorrhoid cream, or pictures of your mom striking a naked pose. It’s my bag and what’s in it is none of the store’s concern.

Don’t go into the store then. I don’t go into your house without bothering to get your permission under the pretext that I have a right to free movement.

Pommy bastard said :

The last time I was asked to open my bag for inspection, I asked the security Stabsunteroffizier to turn out his pockets in exchange.

Needles to say he did not comply.

You are a jerkoff and the reason why retail staff quickly become numb and disinterested in the concept of customer service.

IMO bag checks are a very minor, even irrelevant, attem[pt at deterring would be thieves. Same with the fake “Security to Isle (Insert random isle no here)’ messages that get put out every 10 or so minutes in some stores.

My wife managed a bookstore at Belco Mall for 17 years. Towards the end of her time at that store entire shelves of books would go missing (we’re talking 30+ books)at a go. She actually saw a bloke walk into the store one arvo, drop every book on a shelf into his bag and start to walk out. She asked him to stop and he laughed at her asking what she was going to do and she dared touch him he’d do her for assault. She rang security (who took their sweet time coming) by which time the thief was long gone. She later asked the police what her rights were in being able to stop such guys (this was happening weekly if not daily) and it was pretty much nil. She later organised a course for her staff, run by the AFP, on how to handle these situations but her Head Office told her to cancel the course as they regarded it as a waste of time and money. Thats one of the reasons she quit retail.

#22 Barking toad if I had a dollar for every time that has happened to me, I’d be a rich man.

It’s almost like they’ve forgotten that they have to pay. Oh god and then before money or card is handed over, they always seem to pull out the wrong frequent flyer points card. A simple 30 second transaction turns into a five minute trainwreck.

The last time I was asked to open my bag for inspection, I asked the security Stabsunteroffizier to turn out his pockets in exchange.

Needles to say he did not comply.

If you dislike it then shop elsewhere

Speaking of fake security alerts years ago I remember seeing an agitated discussion when a ‘security’ call went out for the ‘lighting’ section. There was only one customer in that area and he went straight to a staff member complaining rather loudly about why he was being picked on! Maybe that is why they now say ‘Security to Section C’ LOL…

Dont take a bag in then.

Wah wah wah…

Meanwhile whats a Code 1 at myer? I know Bunnings and some supermarkets have pretend security alerts incorporated into their in-store music CDs so maybe the same.

Whatsup said :

Let them check your bag… it’s not a big deal unless its full of stolen goods.

It’s a big deal because it is a matter of privacy. I may have a pocket vibrator in my bag, or some pot, or a porno, or my hemorrhoid cream, or pictures of your mom striking a naked pose. It’s my bag and what’s in it is none of the store’s concern.

Whatsup said :

Let them check your bag… it’s not a big deal unless its full of stolen goods.

That’s pretty much my view of the situation. The only time it’s a hassle is if I’ve got a backpack and it happens to have something in it that looks like it could have been store-bought, that will stop me going into a store. On occasions, I’ve left the kids out the front of a shop minding my bag while I duck in to pick something up.

As for the ‘What’s the big deal?’ part, and this is slightly off-topic, but one of those televisual moments that I’ll not soon forget is when a volunteer at the Sydney Olympics was interviewed on the Roy and HG ‘The Dream’ Show in 2000 and asked about the extra security and had they seen anything weird when checking bags as part of their duties, they replied that they were amazed at the number of ‘marital aids’ they saw in handbags being brought to the swimming, football, rowing and other Olympic events.

I loathe it. To the point that, of the shops I know who do it, mainly the el cheapo department stores like Target and big W, if I’m carrying a bag, I won’t go in. They can bugger off.

bearlikesbeer said :

I agree with tylersmayhem’s suggestion of secure lockers. That would be an ideal solution. Any body remember Impact Records in Civic offering this service? Worked out well for everyone.

yeah, but they were definitely not secure.

bearlikesbeer said :

“Having been a staff member a few years back in a place that did checks, it was usually just as uncomfortable for the staff member as the customer.”

Deye – May I ask how you handled the situation of a customer refusing a bag check?

never happened to me.

The problem with defending public servants in Canberra is that the vast majority of people either are a public servant or know one. They are usually the first to admit it is a bludge.

Who can blame them.

working Australians said :

There are real things in life to get upset about and if this gets up your nose go and get a reality check and lighten up. People nick things from shops and we all pay the price for it at the checkout and a bit of security might just make a huge difference to a reatailer but I am guessing our whinger is a public servent with to much time on its hands and no Idea about real life

Mate, Not all public servants a shirkers, in fact, most work bloody hard. The stress alone would do my head in!

Hate bag searches?

Inventory conscious shop keepers eroding your civil rights?

Join the revolution!

Try http://www.ebay.com

i deal with cops about this sort of thing regularly, their line is that if you are 100% certain you can detain them using the least amount of force necessary, from experience though trying to do that just ends badly, you’re much better off letting the shoplifter do a runner and passing it off to the cops.

I can’t remember the last time someone tried to check my bags. And in fact I’ve found that if you actively offer them your bag for inspection I usually get waved on through!

Special G… It is a brave citizen who makes an arrest over shoplifting. It has to be fairly exceptional circumstances before a citizen detains another, and certain procedures have to be followed. We are in too litigious a society to risk it.
But you are right with the Police. They can detain & search, though the “undies” idea will slow them down a tad.
Besides, most shoplifters are long gone in the 2 hours it takes them to respond to a shoplifting call.

Let them check your bag… it’s not a big deal unless its full of stolen goods.

Shiny is spot on.
As you walk out of JB’s with that Plasma under your arm, it is up to them to prove that you have taken it without paying. You do not have to prove that you had it before you entered their store.
They cannot detain you. They will try. Only a naive shoplifter would return to the store with the staff member.
To accuse you of stealing they have to be 100% certain. i.e they must see * selection, concealement, and an attempt to leave the store without paying. They must not lose sight of you for a second in case the product is “dumped”.
Retailers are scared shitless of being sued over a false accusation.

I had such an incident at Bunnings, stupid overzealous staff yelling at me in the carpark.
I was wearing my “security” (work) shirt at the time.I then complained to the Team Leader.
He agreed I had been very poorly treated,and I have seen neither of those staff members again! Probably not their fault, just bad training.

shiny flu – you got the walking out part right as for the other stuff – I’ll put it bluntly – you are wrong.

Anyone can make a citizens arrest and use reasonable force to do so. This is provided they have the belief that you committed an offence. – this is basically seeing you do it.

Might like to check your Police powers as well.

Also, a ‘condition of entry’ is not a legally binding contract. It’s like trying to make verbal contract stand in a court of law- almost useless.

This is very simple. I used to work in retail and was trained in ‘theft prevention’

ABSOLUTELY NO ONE or business is legally allowed under the Retailers Trade Practices Act to see inside your bag. It’s because legally, you are allowed to put products inside your bag/in your pocket, since someone may have every intention of purchasing… it is only stealing when you walk off the premises.

Most people comply with bag checks because they’re honest and nice folk who haven’t taken anything and don’t know about the procedure. Simply put, you don’t have to show your bag… just walk straight on by if you want- that’s exactly what I do because I for one hate it.

If a security guard or employee comes up to you and asks that you come back to the store or shopping centre, you do not have to. If they grab you and drag you back, it’s assault and you have every right to press charges and sue for any damages.

The only thing that anyone can do is make a Citizen’s Arrest. However, that person would have needed to see you commit the entire crime from when you put something in your bag, to when you walk out the door. Even then, they are not allowed to touch you (assault).

The Police can only ask you if you have stolen something and are not legally allowed to search you or your place residence without a warrant.

i only ever bother checking bags if i’m pretty sure you (or the next bloke in line) has pinched something; its just not worth the hassle otherwise. i usually find the only people who throw a fit about have actually pinched something and if they refuse to let me check it i’ll point out all the security cameras, tell them exactly what they’ve taken and mention i’m cutting them a break by letting them remember what they ‘accidently’ stuck it their bag. they still want to press the point then i’ll let them toddle off and turn into the cops problem.

but seriously i live for the day when someone asking to check my bag is the worst thing that happens to me. some people just need to eat a tea spoon of concrete….

This post kind of annoyed me. Sounds like you’re getting worked up over something stupid. You say they don’t do it as they should, code of practice and whatever, but really, who cares? Show them or don’t… Walk out, whatever. Take it like a man.

Woollies Dickson checked all bags once upon a time. Now they just build the shoplifting cost into our groceries. I’d rather the bag checks …

I’ve used a few “cheeky” responses when asked to present my bag/briefcase for inspection.

Did you mention that a briefcase isn’t a bag?

I don’t know how many times the lady that is always at the entrance to K-mart Belco looked in the top of my backpack, saw that most of the space was taken up with a jumper, and didn’t say a thing.

Might be funny to place a blindingly bright floodlight in the case…

Bought some DVDs at JB Hi Fi in Belco and when I got home I realised I had not been charged for one and they had not removed the security thingy despite my handing it over. The guard had checked my bag and no beep from the gates on the way out. Could not be bothered to go back and pay for it and ask for the security thing to be removed so had a go at opening it myself. Got really close but cracked the disc!

I must also look like Christopher Skase.

*sigh*

I would have thought JB’s have nothing to worry about. Aren’t those alarm gates at the exits? I would have throught it would hard to shoplift from there, unless they are for looks only.

They dont check me either, i think it might have something to do with me giving them the evil eye look LOL

bearlikesbeer said :

A Tadpole Drinking said :

I note that the Code Of Practice Bearlikesbeer has linked to refers only to NSW.
Anyone know what the current legal situation for the ACT is?

I’ve contacted the ARA, and while the code applies throughout Australia, only ARA members are required to adhere to it. As for customers complaining about code breaches, the ARA only deal with their own members, and the ACCC says customers don’t have a leg to stand on. Retailers can make up whatever “conditions of entry” they like, and enforce them as they see fit. Doesn’t sit well with me. Wouldn’t be suprised if undies inspections start occuring.

Ahh, there we go (should have kept reading).

An undies inspection wouldn’t sit well with me but I wouldn’t use the violence of the state to stop it from happening. You enter into a private business voluntarily and if the store sets out the conditions of that entry then I don’t think you have anything to complain about.

Private businesses should have the right to set conditions as they see fit, and we as the public have the right to ostracise, complain, and boycott. This way, everybody is free and nobody is using force.

I skipped ahead. As someone above mentioned, the link is to NSW code of practice enforced by NSW Ofice of Fair TRading. What is the ACT situation?

Personally, I think that stores should be able to ban you (I know Canberra Centre can ban people so I don’t know why stores would be different, even if they are it shouldn’t be different).

The checks only impact on honest people and are a waste of time. They have no legislation to search your property and can only request you leave the store should you say no. If they have the belief that you stole something then sure they can hold you and your property until Police arrive. They still have no authority to search your property.

If it bothers you say no and keep on walking. If you are nicking stuff then they can crash tackle you reasonably and hold you until Police arrive.

I have no problem showing my bag. The person checking more often than not doesn’t look properly anyway, and if their cursory look serves as a deterrent for even *some* thieves, then great success.

If it were my business I wouldn’t really care about the regulation either, particularly if theft were a problem in my store.

There are real things in life to get upset about and if this gets up your nose go and get a reality check and lighten up. People nick things from shops and we all pay the price for it at the checkout and a bit of security might just make a huge difference to a reatailer but I am guessing our whinger is a public servent with to much time on its hands and no Idea about real life

Lockers are a terrorist playground and must be avoided at all costs.

If THEY are prepared to detain people at the DFO because of an unidentified package, imaging what high jinx can be had with a bank of lockers.

Me either, although occasionally some child in a pusher will grab something which you don’t discover until you get out of the store.

It’s always embarrassing taking it back, but I’m sure it happens often enough that they’re not to concerned.

Doesn’t say a whole lot for security however, if a baby can do it!

I was under the impression that stores could stick whatever ‘conditions of entry’ they liked on a sign somewhere in small proint and it diddn’t mean shit. These so called ‘celophane conditions’ you know the ones … by opening the package on this software you agree to be bound…, by entering this car pak you agree…. etc etc. simply occupy the first couple of minutes discussion in any legal proceedings before they get kicked into touch.

I cant actually recall having been asked for a bag inspection anywhere other than JB HiFi.

I generally offer any bag for inspection, and they never seem particularly interested. I’ve also never been particularly interested in stealing from shops.

I agree with tylersmayhem’s suggestion of secure lockers. That would be an ideal solution. Any body remember Impact Records in Civic offering this service? Worked out well for everyone.

Morgan said :

The conditions of entry are a legal requirement, if it is there then they can check your bag.

No, Morgan. If it is there then they can ASK to check your bag. And you can say no. The conditions of entry do not give the retailer the right to check your bag.

One thing I have seen in several parts of the world are lockers (and lots of them) supplied at the entrance of the store. You put your belongings in there and do your shopping. When you are finished, take your stuff and you’re on your way.

Places like JB & Big W should supply these lockers, stop wasting money on people to look into other people bags, and save the customers any waste of time or embarrassment. They want to ensure the security of their store – SUPPLY LOCKERS!

far out, shops have been checking bags for years. Get over it.

Ewww! That would definitely surprise me. Think of the skid marks!

Sorry what is your problem? People nick stuff from shops, so they have to try and stop that. The conditions of entry are a legal requirement, if it is there then they can check your bag. Just show them your bag what is the big problem?

A Tadpole Drinking said :

I note that the Code Of Practice Bearlikesbeer has linked to refers only to NSW.
Anyone know what the current legal situation for the ACT is?

I’ve contacted the ARA, and while the code applies throughout Australia, only ARA members are required to adhere to it. As for customers complaining about code breaches, the ARA only deal with their own members, and the ACCC says customers don’t have a leg to stand on. Retailers can make up whatever “conditions of entry” they like, and enforce them as they see fit. Doesn’t sit well with me. Wouldn’t be suprised if undies inspections start occuring.

barking toad said :

Why take a bag into a shop (eg Woolies)?

A trip to multiple shops often leaves you carrying a number of bags. You can hardly leave them at the door.

Good for you bear.

I was more thinking of the female of the species that carts a suitcase full of rubbish around, waits for the bill to be tallied and then, and only then, delves into said suitcase, digs around, and finally finds a purse. Then she proceeds to try and find exact change in notes and coin.

Meanwhile the bloke behind her with a loaf of bread and money in hand grits his teeth and trys to keep his hobnailed boots on the floor rather than go for a new world record.

tylersmayhem said :

I still this it’s unbelievably bizarre that stores require this here in Canberra. I have travelled to several part of the world, and NEVER have I seen this policy…ANYWHERE!

I agree. I’ve lived in the States, Europe and SE Asia, and have never encountered bag checks in these places.

I like your style, bearlikesbeer!

Barking toad, I have a handbag therefore I am a woman ….

barking toad said :

Why take a bag into a shop (eg Woolies)?

I ride to Woolies, and carry my shopping home in my backpack.

I’ve used a few “cheeky” responses when asked to present my bag/briefcase for inspection. All in good humour, of course.

“This isn’t my bag”
“I’ve forgotten the combination”
“This bag contains Commonwealth docs, and I would be in breach of Commonwealth legislation if I allowed you to view the contents” (sometimes true)
“Okay” (place the bag on the floor and step back)”but I can’t be held responsible for what happens”
“This bag contains a live snake”…

Why take a bag into a shop (eg Woolies)?

I even browse in shops with my hands behind my back these days.

It comes from years of getting the evil eye as a young single mother. It was just easier to ensure the staff could see my hands at at all times so I could have a quick Canberra ‘squiz’ at the merchandise before I was driven out with the hard stares snapping at my heels.

If I know there will be a bag check I usually try and have my bag ready to show, but I find it a pain in the butt, especially if I have a few of them; and severely doubt that they would discover any shoplifted item in my handbag anyway. Heck, I’m sure I couldn’t!

About 15 years back when I used to get hot under the collar about such things I always refused to allow them to access my bag because at that time the ACT legislation didn’t allow for it. When the supervisor was called he would say that if I didn’t comply I would be banned from their store (it was usually Big W) I pointed out to them that they weren’t permitted to do this in the ACT. Occasionally they would quote the legal basis to me from the “cheat sheet” held at each check-out and I in turn would point out that they were quoting NSW legislation – could they show me the equivalent for the ACT at which point they would “make an exception” and allow me to go.

I note that the Code Of Practice Bearlikesbeer has linked to refers only to NSW.
Anyone know what the current legal situation for the ACT is?

probably you look harmless and unlikely to argue with them, so they are asking you not the scarier people.

I still this it’s unbelievably bizarre that stores require this here in Canberra. I have travelled to several part of the world, and NEVER have I seen this policy…ANYWHERE!

Then again, I haven’t seen the type of aggression towards cyclists or mindless driving anywhere else in the world either. Perhaps they all will just stay in the Only In Canberra basket.

I’ve never been keen on the “if you have nothing to hide” attitude, and besides that, it’s my right under the code to refuse a bag check if I want to. And in return, it’s the store’s right to ask that I don’t return. Sounds prefectly reasonable to me. They have to learn to take no for an answer. If they think I’ve stolen something, then they should call the police.

Why not present your bags for inspection before you get asked? It’s only an issue if you’ve stolen something, and the people who try to avoid the guards look dodgy as hell, attracting more attention.

Holy cr*p! You’re right Mr Evil… I do look like Skasie!

bearlikesbeer said :

futto said :

i never get asked…ever. You must look dodgy.

Heaps dodgy. I’m a clean shaven, skinny, baby faced white guy in his thirties wearing a golf shirt and boat shoes, with a store receipt in hand. I’ve got “bad news” written all over me.

That’s what Christopher Skase looked like – no wonder the shops give you such a hard time! 🙂

Maybe you should filled to the gills with tequila and carrying a knife when you go shopping?

niftydog said :

I can only think of three places this occasionally happens to me – JB and Big W in the city and K-mart in Belco. The only one’s that insist are JB, the others don’t seem to care if you just walk on by.

Which stores are you frequenting, if you don’t mind me asking, bearlikesbeer?

Some of the JB stores are the worst. They don’t seem to explain the bagcheck rules to their security staff, which often results in me having a go at management over what really should be a straight forward procedure, ie I refuse a bag check, and the staff politely ask that I not return to the store if I’m not going to adhere to the conditions of entry. Instead, I get an earful about how much stock they lose, how I’m being a cheeky b*stard, etc.

futto said :

i never get asked…ever. You must look dodgy.

Heaps dodgy. I’m a clean shaven, skinny, baby faced white guy in his thirties wearing a golf shirt and boat shoes, with a store receipt in hand. I’ve got “bad news” written all over me.

I can only think of three places this occasionally happens to me – JB and Big W in the city and K-mart in Belco. The only one’s that insist are JB, the others don’t seem to care if you just walk on by.

Which stores are you frequenting, if you don’t mind me asking, bearlikesbeer?

“Having been a staff member a few years back in a place that did checks, it was usually just as uncomfortable for the staff member as the customer.”

Deye – May I ask how you handled the situation of a customer refusing a bag check?

i never get asked…ever. You must look dodgy.

I have also noticed that if I visit a particular store in my suit, I don’t get asked, but the same security guard jumps at me if I’m in shorts and sneakers. Must be the uniform of the common criminal.

Yeah – but how about that overpriced pizza …

I find most places have the sign, then don’t check. Or if you offer them the bag to look at they just wave you through.

Having been a staff member a few years back in a place that did checks, it was usually just as uncomfortable for the staff member as the customer.